Pro and Con 1146

Posted 9-4-04

Incoming email, Re: Morning Planets: Saturn and Venus to Converge

Interesting. God bless.
http://www.space.com/spacewatch/040827_venus_saturn.html
By Joe Rao, 27 August, 2004

...Morning is the time to find planets.

Venus and Saturn are easily visible and will be putting on a predawn show during this upcoming week in the eastern sky, gradually appearing to close in on each other until Aug. 31 when they’ll be in conjunction, just under 2 degrees apart in our sky...

My note: If you missed this, here is a picture of it.

From 5 Doves site

"The Carcass", F.M. Riley, 25 Aug 04
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/aug2004/fmriley825.htm

Dear John,
I have been reading the discussion about the true meaning of "carcass" in Matthew 24:28. I don't know that I can resolve the question, but I do think I can add some Scriptural insight that thus far doesn't appear to have been really considered. Following is a brief study that I prepared on this subject.

Let The Scripture Speak

"Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Spirit teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual."

Scriptural Definitions

1. Carcass.....as used in Matthew 24:27-28
     A. Translated from the Greek word "ptoma"
          1. Occurs only five times in the NT
          2. Translated as:
               a. Corpse 1 time
               b. Carcass 1 time
               c. Dead body 3 times
     B. From the way this word is used in the NT, it should be obvious that it refers to a dead body or dead bodies. This can be determined from the Scriptures even without consulting a lexicon.
     C. Further, the context proceeds from the "abomination of desolation" [which occurs at mid-trib] in Matthew 24:15 right to the end of the Trib in verse 28. What happens at the end of the Trib? Armageddon! Revelation 19:17-18 and Ezekiel 39:17-20. The Word of God is it's own interpreter if God's people would just pay attention to it!

2. Body.....as used in Luke 17:37
     A. Translated from the Greek word "soma"
          1. Occurs 147 times in the NT
          2. Translated as:
               a. body 145 times
               b. slave 1 time
               c. bodily 1 time
     B. From the way this word is used in the NT, it is obvious that most of the time it refers to warm bodies; that is, to a living person or persons, even though on occasion it does refer to a dead body. It is used several times to refer to the church as the "body of Christ."
     C. When we look at the context in which Luke 17:37 is set, the passage obviously does not mean the same thing and is not teaching the same truth as the passage in Matthew 24:28. The context is not the same, the words "carcass" and "body" are not translated from the same Greek words and they do not have the same meaning, and it can be determined from the context that even the time periods under consideration are two different periods of time.

3. Eagle.....as used in Matthew 24:28, Luke 17:37, Revelation 4:7, and Revelation 12:14.
     A. Translated from the Greek word "aetos"
          1. Occurs only four times in the NT
          2. Always translated as "eagle"
     B. An "eagle" is a ravenous bird, but is sometimes used symbolically in the Scriptures. Several times in the OT it symbolically refers to God's people, probably because of it's majestic appearance and graceful flight.
     C. In the two different passages referred to in this study, it is obvious from the context that the word "eagle" is being used in a different way in each passage.

4. Conclusion

     A. After a careful study of these words and the context in which they occur, it becomes obvious that the word "carcass" in Matthew 24:28, and the word "eagle" in the same passage, are referring to the dead bodies of those killed at the end of the Trib; Armageddon, and to the ravenous birds which shall eat their bodies. But.....
     B. The words "body" and "eagle" in Luke 17:37 in their context are referring to the rapture of God's people just before the Trib as clearly predicted in Isaiah 40:31, "But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles....."

Let God's Word interpret God's Word and keep human opinion out of it, and there will not be so many mistakes and so much confusion. It really doesn't matter what I think, what so and so thinks, or the opinion of she, he, him, or them. What matters is what God's Word actually and literally says and teaches. Think about it!

May God add His blessings to His Word.
Pastor F. M. Riley
3305-D Clark Lane PMB 147
Columbia, MO 65202

My reply

Pastor Riley, one time, you told me on the phone that you would never have a computer. I'm thrilled that you now have the use of one. You sure deserve to be able to access the Internet. We can all learn more by discussing the pro and con of things while respecting the other's opinions. I have a feeling that the Lord gives understanding of different subjects to different people. If we all pool our understanding, we will all benefit.

May the Lord bless you with all good things. You will have great rewards in Heaven for your diligent study and work in spreading the word of God. Neither of us is always right, but no one is. After all, we are human. God looks at the intent. We are trying our level best to understand the Bible. It isn't easy, for the wicked would understand, "but the wise shall understand" (Dan. 12:10).

> > When we look at the context in which Luke 17:37 is set, the passage obviously does not mean the same thing and is not teaching the same truth as the passage in Matthew 24:28. The context is not the same, the words "carcass" and "body" are not translated from the same Greek words and they do not have the same meaning, and it can be determined from the context that even the time periods under consideration are two different periods of time.

> > the word "carcass" in Matthew 24:28, and the word "eagle" in the same passage, are referring to the dead bodies of those killed at the end of the Trib; Armageddon, and to the ravenous birds which shall eat their bodies. But.....
> > The words "body" and "eagle" in Luke 17:37 in their context are referring to the rapture of God's people just before the Trib as clearly predicted in Isaiah 40:31, "But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles....."

Thanks much for showing us how the words "ptoma" (translated "carcass," in Mt. 24:28) and "soma" (translated "body" in Luke 17:37) are used in the Bible. That should always be taken into consideration.

Another thing that we should take into consideration is the context, as you also mentioned.

We both can see a Rapture in Luke 17:37. You take it as the first Rapture, the Pre-Trib Rapture (as in Rev. 4:1). I take it as the second Rapture, the Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Tribulation saints (Rev. 7:14). I'll try to explain why I take it as the second Rapture by looking at the context.

Luke 17:22's "ONE of the DAYS (plural, i.e., two) OF THE SON OF MAN" shows me that there are at least two days of the Son of man.

To me, the first Day of the Son of Man is the first Rapture (i.e., the first "trump of God," I Thess. 4:16). It is the Pre-Trib Rapture that is as the days of Noah.

The second Day of the Son of Man is the second Rapture (i.e., "the last trump" of God, I Cor. 15:52). It is the Pre-Wrath Rapture that is as the days of Lot.

Luke 17:26 says, "as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the DAYS of the Son of man." This corresponds to Mt. 24:37-40 and the Pre-Trib Rapture. It says, "as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming (i.e., at the Pre-Trib Rapture) of the Son of Man be...Then shall two be in the field ('The field is the world,' Mt. 13:38); the one shall be taken (i.e., be caught away from the Earth), and the other left."

Noah was floated up above the mountains, and we will meet the Lord in the air. Rain fell over a 40-day period, but no fire fell.

Luke 17:28-31 says, "Likewise (i.e., at another Rapture) also AS IT WAS IN THE DAYS OF LOT...But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed (i.e., when the Sign of the Son of Man of Mt. 24:30 is seen in the sky). In that day (the Tishri 1, Feast of Trumpets that is the Day of God's Wrath), he which shall be upon the HOUSETOP, and his stuff in the house, LET HIM NOT COME DOWN".

As I understand it, the reason he is not to come down is because he will rise up from the housetop in the Pre-Wrath Rapture. He will have no need of any earthly stuff whatsoever.

The "last trump" of God is heard at the Pre-Wrath Rapture, between the breaking of the SIXTH AND SEVENTH SEALS. In Rev. 6:12, the SIXTH SEAL is broken, and the Sun becomes dark. Verse 17 says that "the great day of his wrath is come..."The Pre-wrath Rapture is in Rev. 7. These include the 144,000 Israelites and the great multitude out of all nations (7:9). "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" (Rev. 7:14).

Speaking of the Pre-Wrath Rapture, Luke 17:36,37 says, "Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? (i.e., where will the one be taken?) And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body (i.e., the Body of Christ) is (it's in Heaven, having been caught up to Heaven previously), thither will the eagles (i.e., Tribulation saints) be gathered together." "Sunago, translated "gathered" means to collect, convene, entertain (hospitably), and to be assembled. That fits the assembly in Heaven on the first day of Christ's millennial kingdom.

Heb. 12:22-24 sheds light on the "general assembly" in Heaven at the time of the Pre-Wrath Rapture. It says, "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY AND CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN (i.e., those caught up in the first Rapture), which are written IN HEAVEN, and to God the Judge (i.e., Christ) of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect."

At the second Rapture is when I think the entire Body of Christ will be "ALL BE CHANGED" (I Cor. 15:51, i.e., actually be made immortal, "For this corruptible must put on incorruption (it's 'raised in incorruption, v. 42), and this mortal must put on immortality" (I Cor. 15:53). We have the promise of immortality now. After the change, we will have it in reality.

Having gotten that far, I asked myself, "At what point does Luke 17 match Mt. 24?" As the days of Noah is obvious, but there is more. Luke 17:22-24,26 says, "when ye (believers, i.e., foolish virgins) shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man (the first Rapture), and ye (a foolish Laodicean virgin) shall not see it (i.e., be left behind at the Pre-Trib Rapture), And they (of the Tribulation) shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them (i.e., the Beast and False Prophet). For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day (the 2nd Day of the Son of Man, the Pre-Wrath Rapture, the Day of the Lord that begins Christ's 1000-year reign)....And AS IT WAS in the days of Noe, SO SHALL IT BE in the days of the Son of man." Saints will be lifted up.

I compared this to Mt. 24:26-28,37. It says, "Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west, so shall also the coming (i.e., coming in the air at the Pre-Wrath Rapture) of the Son of man be (i.e., on the 2nd Day of the Son of man). For wheresoever the carcase (i.e., the dead in the Body of Christ) is (in Heaven), there will the eagles (Tribulation saints) be gathered together."

> > the context proceeds from the "abomination of desolation" [which occurs at mid-trib] in Matthew 24:15 right to the end of the Trib in verse 28. What happens at the end of the Trib? Armageddon! Revelation 19:17-18 and Ezekiel 39:17-20.

True, Mt. 24:15 is Mid-Trib, but verses 27-29 are talking about the time of the Pre-Wrath Rapture, because "Immediately AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS shall the sun be darkened." The Sun is darkened after the SIXTH SEAL is broken in Rev. 6:12. That is not the end of the whole Tribulation. Much destruction hits Earth when the SEVENTH SEAL is broken in Rev. 8. Out of the seventh seal comes the seven trumpet judgments. Out of the seventh trumpet comes the seven vials of God's wrath.

After the Day of God's Wrath on the Feast of Trumpets, there will be 7 Jewish months of Tribulation, including Leap Year's extra month, Adar II. The Second Advent will be on the following Nisan 1. Hos. 6:3 says, "the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter (on Tishri 1) and former rain (on Nisan 1) unto the earth." There are seven months between Tishri 1 and Nisan 1 in a Jewish Leap Year.

Eze. 39:12,13 says, "And SEVEN MONTHS shall the house of Israel be burying of them (i.e., those killed on the Day of God's Wrath, Eze. 38:18-20), that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified (i.e., at the Second Advent), saith the Lord GOD."

I think Jesus will return on the first day of the Jewish Regnal and Sacred Year, Regnal because he is King of kings, Sacred because he is Lord of lords and the great High Priest. He will be a priest upon his throne. Zech. 6:13 says, "Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both."

I think the vials of God's Wrath will be filled up during those 7 months. For instance, when the asteroid of Rev. 8:8 hits the Mediterranean Sea at noon (Zech. 2:3-5) on the Day of God's Wrath, "the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed." By the time of the 2nd vial, "the sea;...it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea" (Rev. 16:3).

It looks to me like the whole shortened Tribulation will last 2300 days (Dan. 8:13,14). Agape

Asteroid Shaves Past Earth's Atmosphere

By Jeff Hecht, NewScientist.com, 8-23-4
http://www.rense.com/general56/sat.htm

The closest observed asteroid yet to skim past the Earth without hitting the atmosphere, was reported by astronomers on Sunday.

The previously unknown object, spanning five to 10 metres across, has been named 2004 FU162. It streaked across the sky just 6500 kilometres - roughly the radius of the Earth - above the ground on 31 March, although details have only now emerged....

"This was an extraordinarily close encounter and so the orbital change was quite extraordinary. 2004 FU162 was deflected by about 20 degrees because of the Earth's gravity. I've never seen anything like that before," Chesley told New Scientist.

The previous record for the closest asteroid approach to Earth was set on 18 March by an object called 2004 FH which missed the Earth by about 40,000 kilometres.

That was a much larger object, around 30 metres in diameter - big enough to produce a one-megaton explosion in the atmosphere. Although it was likely to have exploded so high that the energy would have dissipated harmlessly. The smaller 2004 FU162 would have burned up as a fireball ending with a smaller explosion, had it ventured into the Earth's atmosphere.

Second Temple village uncovered

By ETGAR LEFKOVITS, Updated Aug 26, 04
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1093402928581&p=1078397702269

Israeli archeologists have uncovered a 5,000-year-old Canaanite city and a 2,000-year-old Jewish village from the Second Temple period alongside each other in the Modi'in area....

Israeli archeologists have uncovered a 5,000-year-old Canaanite city and a 2,000-year-old Jewish village from the Second Temple period alongside each other in the Modi'in area.

The adjacent ancient sites, which were known to exist but previously lay untouched, lie on a barren, wind-whipped hilltop spanning 120 dunams near the present-day Israeli town of Shoham....

The rural Jewish town uncovered at the site existed from about 100 BCE to 135 CE, until the Bar Kochba revolt, said archeologist Dr. David Amit. Several hundred people are estimated to have lived there, perhaps the extended members of five to eight families. Excavations at the ancient village have uncovered a 2,000-year-old street, Jewish coins from the time of the rebellion, and wine presses, as well as a mikve (Jewish spiritual bath)....

Adjacent to the Jewish village lies a 5,000-year-old Canaanite city from the Early Bronze Age, dating to approximately 3,000 BCE....

The impressive remnants of a 5,000-year-old street, an assortment of pottery and cutting vessels, flint Canaanite blades, stone beads, and a variety of colored juglets, have been uncovered by Paz and her team.

The Antiquities Authority says that the quality and extent of the finds uncovered during the three-month excavation at both sites is "unprecedented."

Incoming email

For a very interesting article on Bible prophecy i would like you to review the following link: http://www.geocities.com/zerub33/TheSeventhMessage.html

My reply

The author, Eric William King, said:
> > ...Now this "title deed" or "sealed scroll" has much more meaning than a simple title deed. We note that it is written on both sides [see Rev. 5:1]. It also contains judgments! As a matter of fact, it contains a seven fold judgment for this earth. This same mystery was seen by the prophet Zechariah. Let us look at the vision he had: "Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll [scroll]. And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying roll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits. Then said he unto me, This is the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side according to it." - Zecahriah 5:1-3
> > Here we notice that the scroll that Zechariah had seen was written on both sides. This scroll is the last message, THE SEVENTH MESSAGE. Jesus is giving this last message to His children. Jesus promised,...."To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna." [Rev. 2:17]....

The rolling thing that is twice as wide as it is long is "THE CURSE THAT GOETH FORTH OVER THE FACE OF THE WHOLE EARTH" (Zech. 5:3). I think it is the binary asteroid of Rev. 8:8,10. When it breaks apart, probably at the Roche Limit, about 11,000 miles out, the rest of Zech. 5:3 and 5:4 will make sense. It says, "every one that stealeth (i.e., the False Prophet) shall be cut off as on this side according to it (as typified by the stone tablet with 5 commandments on it); and every one that SWEARETH (i.e., the Tribulation Pope) shall be cut off as on that side according to it (as typified by the stone tablet with the other 5 commandments on it). I will bring it (the curse, the asteroid) forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief (i.e., the False Prophet), and into the house of him that SWEARETH FALSELY BY MY NAME (the Pope that claims infallibility): and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof."

Rev. 18:21 says of this disaster, "a mighty angel took up a stone (representing the asteroid) like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all."

Isa. 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here? (Babylon) and whom hast thou here (the False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he (Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock (the asteroid Wormwood, a piece of Satan's former planet Rahab)? Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. He will surely violently turn and TOSS THEE LIKE A BALL INTO A LARGE COUNTRY: there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down."

> > Part II: http://www.geocities.com/zerub33/SeventhMessage2.html
> > ... In Revelation 5:6 we are told that Jesus has seven "spiritual eyes" with which He is able to reveal the seven sealed message. In Zechariah 3:9 we are told of a stone that has "seven eyes" upon it. THIS STONE IS THE SEVEN SEALS MESSAGE! We read: "For behold the stone that I have laid before Joshua [Yeshua = Jesus]; upon one stone shall be seven eyes...

The stone (i.e., planet) that is laid before Jesus for his throne is marked by seven "eyes," orbs, rings, i.e., Saturn.

Eze. 1:26-28 says, "And above the firmament (expanse of space) that was over their heads was the likeness (symbolic language) of a THRONE, as (symbolic language) the appearance of a SAPPHIRE stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man (Jesus Christ) above upon it. And I saw as the colour of amber (Saturn has amber on it), as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins (i.e., from the equator) even upward, and from the appearance of his loins (i.e., from the equator) even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about (the rings are bright as the ice crystals reflect the sunlight). As (symbolic language) the appearance of the bow (sunlight on ice crystals causes the rainbow) that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD."

Sapphire means dear to the planet Saturn, from the Sanskrit Sani, Saturn, and priya, dear. Jesus Christ's throne is not only on the planet Saturn, it is marked with seven ring systems, or "brightness round about". The rings look much like rainbows as the Sun shines on the ice crystals.

Incoming email, Re: "Arik or Achav:" Sharon's Gone Dictatorial

http://pub12.bravenet.com/forum/1019113487/show/330093

"Nothing will stop me. Nobody can shackle my hands and feet," Sharon shouted at a recent cabinet meeting. He was responding to Labor and Social Affairs Minister (National Religious Party) Zevulun Orlev's question, why Sharon was planning to present the Gaza disengagement timetable to Likud ministers alone, rather than to all members of his cabinet. Sharon also threatened, "There will be disengagement, in this government or in another government that I establish."

Israel today has it's own Napoleon...

But, at least Napoleon built an empire for the glory of France; Ariel Sharon seems to be working hard for the Palestinians....

Even though Achav was a "secular Zionist nationalist," who did not follow G-D's Torah, because his family settled the land, because they had focus, unity, and purpose, to achieve national goals, they were victorious in battle, and brought honor to the Kingdom of Israel.

There are some interesting parallels between Ariel Sharon and these stories. Sharon's son's name is Omri. And as the former chief advocate for Jewish settlement in Judea, Samaria - the West Bank - and Gaza, one can say, in this "merit" did Sharon deserve to be prime minister. Yet something "evil" has happened to Sharon, and now he plans to expel these Jews and bulldoze their homes - just like his other nickname - the bulldozer. Sharon seems to "lust" over the destruction of Jewish communities in Gaza, in a way, reminiscent of Achav's lust for Navot's vineyard....

Faced with an intractable enemy from without, the so-called Palestinians, and the prospect of multi-generational warfare with them, the last thing Ariel Sharon wants to do is bring disunity to the nation. Whether it's his own "lust" to take that which is not his, like Achav, that drives him to expel Jews from their homes, or simply by mimicking King David's period of disunity, Sharon might just bring the tragedy of many "fallen in battle," home to Israel.

Sharon, stop your dictatorial disengagement farce now...

Ariel Natan Pasko, BushCountry.org, 1 Sept 04

My reply

Maybe the Lord wants the Jews out of Gaza at this time, because of the asteroid that will impact the Mediterranean Sea at noon on the Feast of Trumpets that begins the millennial reign of Christ. The Lord will give that land to Judah when the time is right.

Zeph. 2:1-7 says, "Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired (Israel); Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD's anger come upon you. Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid (i.e., be raptured) in the day of the LORD's anger (Tishri 1, the Feast of Trumpets). For GAZA SHALL BE FORSAKEN, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod AT THE NOON DAY, and Ekron shall be rooted up. WOE UNTO THE INHABITANTS OF THE SEA COAST, the nation of the Cherethites! the word of the LORD is against you; O Canaan, the land of the Philistines, I WILL EVEN DESTROY THEE, THAT THERE SHALL BE NO INHABITANT. And the sea coast shall be dwellings and cottages for shepherds, and folds for flocks. And the coast shall be for the remnant of the house of JUDAH; they shall feed thereupon: in the houses of Ashkelon shall they lie down in the evening: for the LORD their God shall visit them, and turn away their captivity." Agape

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