Pro and Con 1147

Posted 9-10-04

Incoming email, Re: REPLY TO MARILYN -- THE CARCASE & THE VULTURES

From: Donna Danna

So briefly what you said in your 8/21 post is that the scene in Rev. 19: 11-21 does not take place until Christ returns with his armies at Armageddon while the scenes in both Matthew 24 and Mark 13:24-27 take place 7 months prior to Armageddon when the living tribulation saints are taken to heaven in a Pre-Wrath Rapture while those left behind are killed on the Day of God's wrath that happens after the living tribulation saints are taken to heaven. In that case, I don't see why the spiritually dead who are left behind and who had taken the mark of the beast couldn't be considered "the carcase" that the vultures gather together to eat since these men are both spiritually dead and they will be physically dead on the Day of God's wrath when they are killed after the living tribulation saints are taken to heaven and the wrath of God falls on these spiritually dead men. Just like the body of Christ contains many members, I don't see why "the carcase" couldn't include all the spiritually dead men that are killed during the wrath of God.

As I explained before, my Greek Lexicon, which is not the same thing as the Strong Concordance, specifically lists "the eagles" in Matthew 24:28, and in Mark 17:37 under the Greek word of "aetos," and gives the meaning of these verses as "vultures." It also lists "carcase" in Matthew 24:28 under the Greek word of "ptoma" which means "dead body, corpse, esp. of one killed by violence" while it lists "the body" of Mark 17:37 under the Greek word of "soma." Those killed by the wrath of God will certainly die a violent death. My Greek Lexicon gives the 1st meaning of the word "soma," as 1. "body of man or animal," and then it lists two categories under that meaning. The 1st category is 1.a) " a dead body, corpse" and it lists "the body" in Luke 17:37 under that category rather than under it's other category of 1. b) "a living body" which is why I continue to think that "the carcase" is not the body of Christ because none of the body of Christ are spiritually dead, and only those who have died are physically dead which would not include the pre-tribulation saints who were taken to heaven alive, or the pre-wrath saints who are also alive and taken to heaven. Actually the question in Luke 17:37 that the disciples ask Jesus is "Where, Lord?" They do not ask him, Where, Lord, are the elect taken?" nor do they ask him, "Where will the fire and brimstone fall that will kill those left behind?" Jesus simply answers them, "Wheresover the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together."

Some of the other verses that my Greek Lexicon lists under the Greek word "soma" under the category of 1. a) "dead body, corpse" besides Luke 17:37 are Matt. 14:12, 27: 52, 58, 59; Mark 15:43,45; Luke 23:52,55; Luke 24:3, 23; John 19:31, 38a,b, 40, 20;12; Act. 9:40; Hebrews 13:11; Jude 9.

Some of the verses that my Greek Lexicon listers under the Greek word "soma" under the category of 1.b) "a living body" are Matt. 5:29, 6:22, 26:12; Mark 5:29, 14:8, Luke 11:34 a,b,c; John 2:21; Romans 1:24; 1Corin. 6:18a,b.

The 5th meaning of "soma" is "The Christian community, the church as a unified "soma" or body, and some examples of the verses listed under this meaning are Romans 12:5; 1 Corin. 10:17; 12:13, 27; Ephesians 1:23, 2:16, 4:4,12,16; 5:23,30; Col 1:18,24; 2:19; 3:15.
"The body" in Luke 17:37 is not listed under this meaning.

It is also interesting to note that
http://www.cuttingedge.org/newsletters/index.html has an article posted this week under New Articles Posted This Week called "VULTURES -- BIRDS THAT FEED ON CARRION -- ARE SUDDENLY INCREASING DRAMATICALLY IN ISRAEL BECAUSE ISRAELIS ARE FEEDING THEM, CARING FOR THEM"
God bless, Donna

My reply

> > I don't see why "the carcase" couldn't include all the spiritually dead men that are killed during the wrath of God.

The reason it can't is because Mt. 24:27-31 does NOT include the Wrath of God. Neither does Mark 13:24-27. Both passages are talking about the time between the breaking of the 6th and 7th seals. This is when Christ comes to catch up the Tribulation saints.

The Rapture of these verses is in Rev. 7. This 2nd Rapture takes place between when the 6th seal is broken in Rev. 6:12 and when the 7th seal is broken in Rev. 8. The Wrath of God hits Earth at noon on the Feast of Trumpets when the trumpet judgments take place.

These verses all take place on parts of two days, the Eve of Trumpets and the Feast of Trumpets from its beginning at 6 PM until noon. The Wrath of God hits at noon (Zeph. 2:1-3) on the Feast of Trumpets. That is when the two asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10 impact Earth, but Mt. 24:27-31 all takes place BEFORE NOON. So does Mark 13:24-27.

The 6th seal is broken on the Eve of Trumpets, when the Sign of the Son of Man is seen in the sky. The Pre-Wrath Rapture takes place before noon (Zeph. 2:3-5) on the Feast of Trumpets. The Rapture described in Rev. 7 takes place after the 6th seal is broken in Rev. 6:12 and before the 7th seal is broken in Rev. 8.

Mt. 24:27 speaks of "the coming of the Son of man" at the Pre-Wrath Rapture. Verse 31 continues this subject. It says, "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet ('the last trump' of I Cor. 15:51,52), and they SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT FROM THE FOUR WINDS, FROM ONE END OF HEAVEN TO THE OTHER."

Mark 13:27 completes the action at this time. Not only are the Bride saints that are already in heaven gathered to the "general assembly" in Heaven (Heb. 12:23), the Tribulation saints are gathered. Mark 13:27 says the angels "SHALL GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT FROM THE FOUR WINDS, FROM THE UTTERMOST PART OF THE EARTH (the Tribulation saints) TO THE UTTERMOST PART OF HEAVEN" (the Bride saints who were previously taken to Heaven in the Pre-Trib Rapture).

Mt. 24:26-31 says, "Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he (the False Prophet) is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man (at the Pre-Wrath Rapture) be. For wheresoever the carcase (the dead members of the Body of Christ) is (in Heaven), there will the eagles (the Tribulation saints) be gathered together. Immediately after the tribulation OF THOSE DAYS shall the sun be darkened (AFTER THE 6TH SEAL IS BROKEN, Rev. 6:12), and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven (Rev. 6:13), and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then (after the 6th seal, Rev. 6:12-16) shall appear the SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the CLOUDS of heaven (COMING IN THE AIR AT THE PRE-WRATH RAPTURE) with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet ('THE LAST TRUMP, I Cor. 15:51,52), and they shall gather together his elect (the Bride of Christ previously caught up to Heaven in the Pre-Trib Rapture) from the four winds, from one end of HEAVEN to the other."

Mark 13:24-27 says, "But in those days, after THAT tribulation (which is not the entire Tribulation), the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall (Rev. 6:12,13), and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming IN THE CLOUDS (in the air) with great power and glory. And then (i.e., when he comes in the air the second time) shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH (the Tribulation saints) to the uttermost part of heaven" (the Bride saints taken to Heaven previously in the Pre-Trib Rapture.

Rev. 6:12-17 says, "I beheld when he had opened the SIXTH SEAL (on the Eve of Trumpets), and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the SUN BECAME BLACK as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; And the STARS OF HEAVEN FELL UNTO THE EARTH, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven (i.e., heavens) departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: FOR THE GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH IS COME (6 PM, the beginning of the Feast of Trumpets); and who shall be able to stand?"

Re. 7:1-3 says, "And after these things I saw And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, Saying, HURT NOT THE EARTH, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."

Rev. 7:9,14 says of the saints caught up in the Pre-Wrath Rapture, "I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations...STOOD BEFORE THE THRONE, AND BEFORE THE LAMB...THESE ARE THEY WHICH CAME OUT OF GREAT TRIBULATION" (the last half of the Tribulation).

After this, we read of the breaking of the 7th seal and the subsequent 7 trumpet judgments in Rev. 8. These saints "came out" before the 7th seal was broken in Rev. 8.

The 1st Rapture is as the days of Noah (Mt. 24:37; Luke 17:26). The 2nd Rapture is as the days of Lot. Luke 17:36,37 says, "Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body (Body of Christ) is (in Heaven), thither will the eagles (high flying Tribulation saints) be gathered together."

After this 2nd Rapture, the 7th seal will be broken and the 7 trumpet judgments will be released (Rev. 8f). After the 2nd Rapture, the Wrath of God will fall on the unbelievers left on Earth. Agape

From 5 Doves site

Jovial (7 Sep 2004)
"Re: is the jewish calendar off again??"
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/sep2004/jovial97.htm

The Karaites, who go by the sighting of the new moon, found aviv barley early enough to agree with the Hillel calendar this year. So its safe to say that this year, the Hillel calendar is in sync with the cycle it should have. In fact, the sightings of the new moon have been in unusually good agreement with the calculated calendar this year - more than usual. It's not unusual for it to be 2-3 days off, but has usually been within a day so far.
Joe

Incoming email

http://pub12.bravenet.com/forum/1019113487/show/329963
While this is not new (I think most of us have been aware of Dr. Jeffries' research for some years now), there are some additional interesting details.
---
Early Church Teaching On The Pre-Tribulation Rapture
By Dr. Grant Jeffries, 9-2-04

...Dr. Paul Alexander, perhaps the most authoritative scholar on the writing of the early Byzantine Church, concluded that Ephraem's text on The Antichrist taught that the Lord would supernaturally remove the saints of the Church from the earth "prior to the tribulations that is to come." Ephraem wrote that the saints will be "taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins." Dr. Alexander believed this text was written by some unknown writer in the sixth century but he concluded that it was derived from an original Ephraem manuscript (A.D. 373). Other scholars, including the German editor Professor Caspari who wrote a German commentary on this Latin manuscript in 1890, believed that Ephraem's manuscript was written by the genuine Ephraem in A.D. 373. Professor Cameron Rhodes, professor of Latin at Tyndale Theological Seminary, translated Ephraem's Latin text into English at the request of my friend Dr. Thomas Ice and myself....

Although there are some curious elements in his description of prophetic events, it is clear that Ephraem believed that the seventieth final week of Daniel's prophecy of the seventy weeks will finally be fulfilled during the final seven years of this age when the Antichrist will appear. This evidence of a belief in a "gap" or "parenthesis" between the sixty-ninth and seventieth week of Daniel 9:24-27 from the fourth century of the Christian era is significant. It is worthwhile to note that this teaching that there would be a "gap" or "parenthesis" between Daniel's 69th week and the 70th week of years was also taught by others in the early church including the Epistle of Barnabas (A.D. 110) and the writings of Hippolytus (A.D. 220).

Incoming email

> > Maybe the Lord wants the Jews out of Gaza at this time, because of the asteroid that will impact the Mediterranean Sea at noon on the Feast of Trumpets that begins the millennial reign of Christ. The Lord will give that land to Judah when the time is right.

I COMPLETELY AGREE!

King Solomonís name lingers at ĎArmageddoní digging site

By Bill Broadway, Washington Post
King Solomonís name lingers at ĎArmageddoní digging site

Five George Washington University students and their archaeology professor went to Armageddon this summer, not to search for clues to a cosmic battle yet to come between good and evil, but to seek understanding of civilizations past.

One of the most important issues they addressed was whether a palace attributed to King Solomon in what is now northern Israel was in fact built by Solomon, the son of King David renowned for his wise leadership and for his illicit relationship with the queen of Sheba....

Interesting article

"Lesson for the Future," By Chris Mitchell
http://www.cbn.com/CBNNews/News/031111a.asp?option=print

The Gihon Spring, still running today after more than 3,000 years, was the life source for Jerusalem.

CBN.com Ė JERUSALEM ó The status of Jerusalem is one of the most hotly contested issues in world diplomacy today. But the battle over Jerusalem goes back thousands of years. So CBN News decided to examine another time when Jerusalem was under siege, during the reign of King Hezekiah, and the lessons history offers for us today.

Just outside the walls of the old city of Jerusalem lies the city of David, the birthplace of Jerusalem and the capital of Israel for more than 3,000 years. It is the place where kings and prophets once roamed, and the site of one of the marvels of the ancient world ó King Hezekiah's tunnel....

Surprise!

Iraq's U.K. envoy: Strong Baghdad lobby wants ties with Israel
By Sharon Sadeh
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/472998.html

LONDON - A powerful lobby is developing in Baghdad to promote the idea of diplomatic relations with Israel, the new Iraqi ambassador to Great Britain told Haaretz on Thursday....

Incoming email, Re: Who Are The Ten Virgins?

I don't know if you've seen this before or not. I came across it on the web the other day while visiting a Jewish web site. Would you comment on this? God bless you.
---
The Ten Virgins Who Are They?

When reading about the five wise and the five foolish virgins there are many ways a person could interpret their meanings. One of the things that make a difference in understanding is whether we believe in Grace as the basis of our salvation or whether we believe that works is the basis of our salvation. If you believe that you are saved by grace then you will probably believe that the five foolish virgins were not born again or they were possibly backslidden and will be left behind in the rapture of the Church. If you believe that works determines your salvation you will probably believe that the five foolish were backslidden Christians and that all five are destined for Hell and eternal damnation. Hopefully we will come to the right understanding of this parable before we are finished.

1: Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2: And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3: They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
5: While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept
6: And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.
7: Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.
8: And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.
9: But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.
10: And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11: Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12: But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13: Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

There are several things to consider when reading these scriptures.

They are all virgins
They all slumbered and slept
They all had lamps
They were all looking for the bridegroom
They had all gone out to meet him.
The only difference was that the foolish did not take any oil.
When we see these ten virgins the first thought that comes to us this that of the Bride of Christ. The fact that the Word says that we are supposed to be as chaste virgins. There is a little disappointment in not seeing her as brides but rather as to find that these are considered to be bridesmaids.

The reason for this is because that we as individuals are not the Bride of Christ. The Church is the Bride. We are only a part of the Bride and like the bridesmaids we will attend the wedding. But the Church in its totality is to be considered as the Bride. In this parable the five wise Virgins are the true Church and have been born again with eternal oil.

There are those in the Church known nowadays as Nominal Christians. There are millions of these in our land today. Only 47 percent of all who claim to be Christians in America are truly born again according to Gallup pole. Which means that they have a personal experience and know that they are born again. There are two types of oil: one is the Holy Spirit that produces the righteousness in the born again Christian. The other is the oil of self-will and self-discipline. This is what Paul would call; establishing our own form of righteousness. There are many that come to Church with this kind of oil. But this oil is only from the human heart and will run out because it is not eternal. Just as the oil ran out for the Covenant of Moses this kind of oil in the heart that is not born again will eventually burn out.

The fact that they were all virgins symbolized that they were all living righteously. Which tells us that there was no difference between the five wise and the five foolish. When it came to living right, they were pure.

They all slumbered and slept when the bridegroom tarried. They all believed that he had delayed his coming so they had gone to bed. Perhaps they thought that he would come the next day. Of course we know that the cry went out at midnight. The significance of this is that they all believed that they were ready. I donít suppose that any of them believed that he would come in the night. So both groups of virgins were taken by surprise.

The next point is that they all had lamps. The difference of course was that the wise had taken extra oil in their vessels, the foolish didnít take any more than what they had in their lamps. This is the factor that is going to open our understanding to what Jesus was teaching these people. And as to what he was talking about. The Lamps and the oil in them are the answer to the mystery.

These lamps and their oil could also represent the two covenants and the Spirit of God that is in them. We must realize that when Jesus came to Israel the Jewish people were under the Law of Moses. They at the time were the only lights that God would use to show the world his will. The oil or the Spirit of God was in this covenant. This covenant, The Law of Moses was the light that they were showing to the world. The people who sincerely followed and lived by this covenant were considered righteous by God. It was the only light in the world until the time that Jesus came.

When Jesus came he gave us a brand New Covenant. Because of this New Covenant, God would change his method of doing things. When Jesus was crucified he established his new covenant with all mankind. But, Israel would have a real problem with this simply because they would not be able to understand. So Jesus in this parable was trying to reach their minds in order to show them the end results of not accepting the New Covenant that he had given.

One of the things we must consider is that Israel had been placed in partial blindness as a judgment for their past sins. So the scripture "many are called but few are chosen" was fulfilled at the time of Christ. They have remained in darkness for the most part until this day. Many of them are still trusting in the Old Covenant to get themselves to God. This is the very basis of this parable. The five foolish virgins are the children of Israel who believe that this is the way. They live as righteous as they can. The Lamp they carry is the Law of Moses and they try to celebrate and share this as much as they possibly can. In fact you can become a Jew if you want to. They are looking for new converts all the time. They are also looking for the bridegroom to come. You see Israel believes that the Messiah has never come. So they are also looking for his appearing. They also to this day believe that he has delayed his coming.

The five wise virgins represent the Jewish people who were following Jesus at that time. This also includes the Church, both Jew and Gentile across the earth today. The lamp that we carry is the New Covenant, or the New Testament that Jesus has given to us. This lamp is now the light of the World. We call it the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. When we witness or share this Gospel we become a city set on a hill for all men to see. When the bridegroom comes this is the people who will be ready to meet him. Just like Israel we are looking for the Messiah, the only difference is that it is his Second Coming, not his first.

When the veil of the Temple was rent the Spirit of God left. But, I believe that God gave Israel a period of forty years to repent and accept Jesus. Jesus told them that the Temple would be destroyed. In exactly 40yrs from the time Jesus spoke those words the Temple was destroyed and Jerusalem was captured. It was at this time that the oil ran out for the Old Covenant. I believe that God gave them this space before the oil would run out. Today they are carrying a lamp without oil.

The message in this parable is to show them and us the futility of trying to be saved through the Law of Moses. There is only one covenant that will save us, and that is the New Covenant of faith in Jesus through his blood and accomplishments at the cross. Paul said that the preaching of the cross was the power of God unto Salvation. There is absolutely no other way. We can all live right, be looking for the Messiah, but if we are not in the New Covenant through faith in Jesus we will be lost.

The extra oil in the Lamp of the Church is the fact that the New Covenant is eternal. He said that the Holy Ghost would abide with us forever. The oil in our lamps will never run out as long as we are truly looking for Jesus to come.

The foolish virgins went to the wise virgins trying to get them to share their oil. The problem with this was that the wise were unable to this. All they could do was point the way to those who could. Go to the sellers. It is symbolic of us preaching the Gospel. All we can do is tell others where to go to get it. Isaiah said it like this;

Isa:55:1: Ho, every one that thirsteth, come ye to the waters, and he that hath no money; come ye, buy, and eat; yea, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

We cannot give someone else the Holy Spirit. Only God can do that. So it is necessary for those who are trying to make it to heaven any other way to go to Jesus to get the oil. The message is to get the oil of salvation from Jesus so that you can be saved. How do we buy it? With our faith! Believing enough to come to him and ask.

The Gentile Church needs to have a heart towards Israel and give them the Gospel so that they will not be rejected when Jesus comes. It is up to us to make the difference. God has placed this ministry in our hands. Paul told us in the 11th Chapter of Romans that God had placed Israel in blindness so that he could have mercy on us. So that through our mercy they would find mercy. What he was saying was this. God put Israel in blindness so that we could be saved. His plan is that after we have been saved we would in turn give them the Gospel and then they will be saved. It is his perfect will for this to happen.

My reply

> > If you believe that you are saved by grace then you will probably believe that the five foolish virgins were not born again or they were possibly backslidden and will be left behind in the rapture of the Church. > > If you believe that works determines your salvation you will probably believe that the five foolish were backslidden Christians and that all five are destined for Hell and eternal damnation.

I believe that we are saved by accepting the Lord Jesus Christ as our own personal Saviour. I believe that Salvation is of grace, not works, and that the 5 foolish virgins are foolish servants, unwise believers, lukewarm Laodiceans that will be left behind at the Pre-Trib Rapture. However, they will be caught up later in the Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Tribulation saints.

The foolish virgins are carnal Christians. They are destined for Heaven, not Hell. They gained Salvation when they accepted Christ. At that time, all their "old sins" were wiped off the slate, and they were sealed by the Holy Spirit. All they lack is to let Jesus wash their feet.

John 13:8-10 says, "Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit."

I John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

The foolish-virgin Tribulation saints need to wash their robes that are spotted by the flesh. Rev. 7:14 says, "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." I think wise virgins will wash their robes before the Pre-Trib Rapture. Remember, the Israelites were to "wash their clothes" before the Lord came down on Mt. Sinai (Ex. 19:10). Foolish virgins will not wash their robes until after the Pre-Trib Rapture has taken place. Then, they will have to try to figure out why they were left behind. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The foolish virgins' lamps did not go out. They were "sbennumi, being suppressed, i.e., being quenched, going out, sputtering, not burning brightly, but not extinguished.

Prov. 13:9 says, "The light of the righteous rejoiceth: but the lamp of the wicked shall be put out." The lamps of the foolish virgins are still burning, even though the oil is being suppressed.

What does a "virgin" stand for in Scripture? To me, it stands for a believer, a member of the Church. In II Cor. 11:2, Paul said, "I am jealous over you ('THE CHURCH OF GOD WHICH IS AT CORINTH,' 1:1) with godly jealousy: for I HAVE ESPOUSED YOU ('the church of God') to one husband (Christ), THAT I MAY PRESENT YOU (the church) AS (symbolic language) A CHASTE VIRGIN TO CHRIST."

The Church is made up of the Body of Christ. Some are fingers, some other parts. Some are Philadelphians without condemnation. Others are Laodiceans whom Jesus will spit out of his mouth at the first Rapture, but collectively, they are all the Church.

I Cor. 12:3 says, "no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost", and in Mt. 25:11, the 5 foolish virgins say, "Lord, Lord, open to us." They are believers, even though they are foolish, unwise servants.

The wise virgin is classed as "chaste," i.e., pure, one whose sins are all under the blood of Christ. The foolish virgin is the same as the foolish servant in Luke 12:45,46. It says, "if that SERVANT (i.e., believer) say in his heart, MY LORD delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; The lord of that servant (i.e., the foolish virgin) will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him HIS PORTION (i.e., part of the Tribulation) WITH THE UNBELIEVERS." The foolish servant is not an unbeliever. He will, however, be appointed to endure part of what the unbelievers face. This does not include Hell.

Mt. 24:50,51 adds that "The lord of that servant (the 'evil servant,' v. 48) shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his PORTION with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

The oil stands for the Holy Spirit. Zech 4:12 says, "I...said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of themselves?" The two olive branches represent God's two witnesses of Rev. 11:5. It says, "These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth."

The difference between the wise and foolish is that the "wise took oil in their vessels (i.e., their bodies) with their lamps." The foolish virgins need more of the Holy Spirit.

II Peter 1:4-11 says, "Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that BY THESE YE MIGHT BE PARTAKERS OF THE DIVINE NATURE, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind (like a Laodicean), and cannot see afar off (Heaven), and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins (i.e., when he first accepted Christ). Wherefore the rather, brethren (believers), give diligence to make your CALLING AND ELECTION SURE: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance (i.e., the Pre-Trib Rapture) shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ."

> > The fact that they were all virgins symbolized that they were all living righteously. Which tells us that there was no difference between the five wise and the five foolish. When it came to living right, they were pure.

I don't think so. The Lord wouldn't point out the difference if there was no difference. I think all became virgins at the moment they accepted Christ and the Lord baptized them with the Holy Spirit. Later, some of them became foolish, because they neglected to confess their sins so the Lord could cleanse them of all unrighteousness.

> > The difference of course was that the wise had taken extra oil in their vessels, the foolish didnít take any more than what they had in their lamps.

It is talking about the amount of the Holy Spirit in their bodies. We need to pay attention to I Thess. 5:19. It says, "Quench not the Spirit." When we sin, we are lowering the level of the Holy Spirit within us. We can't lose our sealing, but we can lose the rest of the Holy Spirit. When we confess our sins, the Lord cleanses us of all unrighteousness. Then the Holy Spirit wells up within us as a fountain of living water.

Wise virgins are filled with the Holy Spirit. Eph. 5:18 says, "be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit." Agape

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