Pro and Con 1155

Posted 10-24-04

Incoming email

"Doesn't matter how many people know our name after we die,
but its how many lives we have touch."

AND YOU have touched MANY!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Angels KNOW your name!!!
God has blessed you.

til that time

My reply

Thanks. God bless you. Agape

Incoming email

prayer request From: Lucille Wagner

Please pray for my mother Audrey Jeffrey who has just found out that she has cancer. She has decided to treat herself with herbs and to ask God to heal her. I pray that you will also pray for a healing of this cancer as I hope many others will as well. My granddaughter Brooke is doing well as is my daughter. I thank you for the prayers for my family. Much love to you & God Bless. In Jesus, Lucille

Luke 21:36--Watch ye therefore and pray always that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the son of man....

Rev. 3:10, 11--"Because you have kept My command to persevere, I also will keep you from the hour of trial which shall come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell upn the earth. (11) Behold I am coming Quickly! Hold fast what you have, that no one may take your crown.

My reply

So sorry to hear your mother has cancer. Will pray for her. Thanks so much for everything. I'm glad to get the update on your daughter and grand-daughter too.

I'm assuming that your mother is taking Barley Green. Please let me know if she finds a tasty way to take it. Our son has growths that could be cancer, but he can't stand to take Barley Green.

His daughter, Brandi, had surgery on her ankle. They put screws in, because the tendons were pulling the bones apart. She needs all the help with pain she can get. A cold pack can't get any chill through the cast, but I tried putting the cold pack on her head to give her brain something else to think of. She soon went to sleep. It has worked twice so far. She's glad I thought of that.

I told her that in treating my pain in hip and leg from the degenerated disk pinching a nerve, I found that taking my pain pills late did not work. Once the brain starts registering the pain, it takes a long time to quell it. I have to take the pills on time to fool my brain, regardless of pain or lack of it at that time.

I'm still waiting for the 3 epidural cortizone shots to be scheduled by the medical center. The letter they sent called it a pain-block procedure. I pray it works. Agape

Sanhedrin Launched In Tiberias

10-18-04 - A unique ceremony - probably only the second of its kind in the past 1,600 years - is taking place in Tiberias today: The launching of a Sanhedrin, the highest Jewish-legal tribunal in the Land of Israel.

The Sanhedrin, a religious assembly that convened in one of the Holy Temple chambers in Jerusalem, comprised 71 sages and existed during the Tannaitic period, from several decades before the Common Era until roughly 425 C.E. Details of today's ceremony are still sketchy, but the organizers' announced their intention to convene 71 rabbis who have received special rabbinic ordination as specified by Maimonides.

An attempt to reconvene the Sanhedrin was made several centuries ago in Tzfat. The body in fact ordained such greats as Rabbi Yosef Karo, the author of the classic Jewish Law code Shulhan Arukh. However, the opposition of other leading rabbis soon forced the end of the endeavor.

One of the leaders of today's attempt to revive the Sanhedrin is Rabbi Yeshai Ba'avad of Beit El. He said that the 71 rabbis "from across the spectrum received the special ordination, in accordance with Maimonides' rulings, over the past several months." Rabbi Ba'avad explained that the membership of the new body is not permanent: "What is much more crucial is the establishment of this body. Those who are members of it today will not necessarily be its members tomorrow. But the goal is to have one rabbinic body in Jerusalem that will convene monthly and issue rulings on central issues. This is the need of the generation and of the hour."

Rabbi Yisrael Ariel, who heads the Temple institute in Jerusalem, is one of the participating rabbis. He told Arutz-7 today, "Whether this will be the actual Sanhedrin that we await, is a question of time - just like the establishment of the State; we rejoiced in it, but we are still awaiting something much more ideal. It's a process. Today's ceremony is really the continuation of the renewal of the Ordination process in Israel, which we marked several months ago. Our Talmudic Sages describe the ten stages of exile of the Sanhedrin from Jerusalem to other locations, until it ended in Tiberias - and this is the place where it was foretold that it would be renewed, and from here it will be relocated to Jerusalem."

Rabbi Ariel said that the rabbis there included many from the entire spectrum: "Hareidi, religious-Zionist, Sephardi, Ashkenazi, hassidi, and many others - such as Rabbi Yoel Schwartz, Rabbi Adin Shteinzaltz, and many others... We can't expect a great consensus; that's not how things work here. But sometimes that's how the process goes, from the bottom up."

Incoming email

It has be quite some time since I have written you, but I have followed ALL of your postings. I am saddened by the trials that you and Ed have experienced over the years, and I sometimes wonder why your 'thorn' is so drastic. I have listened to David Booth's radio explanation of the 3rd Secret with great wonder. And, the time is so near. I would send you a copy of the mp3 broadcast, but I know that you have certain concerns about downloading attachments. I feel that you already have it anyway, or can get it with no help, for I got it from Five Doves posts. I would like very much to hear your comments on this, as I am certain, others would also.

I pray that the good Lord will ease your distresses, and bring us all home soon. ybic

My comments

Later, he sent me a cassette of the broadcast. I did my best in the time I had to write down what was said. It is not word perfect, but close enough to understand his message correctly..

Fatima's third message was announced by David Booth on Oct. 6, 2004, on talk radio live from Chicago. I am not sure of the name of the interviewer. I'm rather hard of hearing, but it sounded like James Arthur Yonsic. David Booth called him Jim. So will I.

David Booth had seen a vision regarding a large planetary object, an eruption that occurred in the Northwest part of the US, and a ripple that went around the Earth. Some time after this, he went to Portugal to talk to the last of the three that received the original message from the apparition called Our Lady in 1917, when they were children. Sister Lucia is old now, and in a wheelchair.

David: The vision I had had regarding the large planetary object and the eruption that occurred on the North American continent, and the ripple that went around the Earth was explained to me that this country, and this was specific to that country that I lived in, and a country that had been created by God specifically for God's people, that had turned away so much from god that from this country would begin a number of events, and a series of events, that would bring about what is commonly called the end days, the last days. And that the importance of it was for the same...

The main message (emphasis mine)

David: Basically, that next week, on October 13, will be the 87th year since the Holy Mother last warned this world about these times and the events that might occur shortly. The church has not heeded this warning, nor have the people of this world obeyed their God. The Holy Mother had stated that if her requests were granted, there would be peace. And they have not been, and now there will be war, plagues and pestilence as a punishment for mankind, as she has foretold.

From this moment, this very moment forward, the Lord will punish this Earth and its people, so they will know that he is their God and we are his children. Turn away now from all men and the buildings of men, and I will teach you and lead you, commands the Lord to the men today. The Lord commands his people to turn away now from all graven images and to not put faith in objects of stone, silver or gold, because in God alone lies one's true treasure.

LISTEN TO NO MAN, OR GROUP OF MEN WHO SAY THEY SPEAK FOR GOD, for they are all liers and thieves and have forsaken the church for their own gain. And LIKEWISE, TO GIVE YOUR GOLD AND SILVER TO ANY MAN WHO CLAIMS THEY SPEAK FOR GOD IS TO PARTAKE OF THE WRATH OF GOD as a reserved for these false prophets.

This wicked generation of man have become lovers of death, adultery and gold and have created their own gods, and even believe they are gods themselves. This wicked generation of men have been led into the pens for slaughter by the men who seek glory for themselves. They will have their reward, the fires of hell.

This wicked generation of men have become lovers of death and adultery and gold, and our Lord has asked, can we not see the signs of these times? And has it not been written, and God said, let there be lights in the firmament of heaven to divide the day from night, and let them be for signs and for seasons, and for days and years. This is for understanding. I will no longer be mocked by this generation and will visit upon them my full and utter wrath. And till every man bows down before me and knows that I am their God and they are my people. God alone is the shepherd for his flock and will lead them. For in the valley of decision the great and terrible day of the Lord is at hand.

Jim: And this message that was in your dream was the 3rd message of Fatima?

David: Yes, it was.

Jim: Now when is this supposed to happen? If I understand this properly, there is a messenger prior to the event, or is that yourself?

David: That's myself.

Jim: And there's a time frame from this moment then?

David: Yes, beginning on the 87th year which is next week, August 13th.

Jim: October 13th.

David: October 13th.

Jim: And what time does it have? what time at that point?

David: Just that day. Just that day that it begins.

Jim: When can we expect the actual happening of this dream?

David: Everything begins, all the wars, the pestilence, everything that has been foretold, begins next week.

Jim: On October 13th?

David: On October 13th.

Jim: I just want to make this very clear that what is being said is this message. It will begin on October 13 forward, and that you talked to the sister, and she confirmed that.

David: That's correct.

Jim: And said you should give the message on the 6th, which is today?

David: Yes.

Jim: And on the 13th will begin starting this chastisement?

David: The great and terrible day of the Lord...

Jim: Does the Rapture fit into this at all? K know that's more of a Protestant, rather than a Catholic, which is where i think you are speaking from.

David: That's correct.

Jim: So I don't know what you'd say about the Rapture:

David: There's nothing I can say about it...

Jim: This October 13th, will it start what is called the Tribulation?

David: It begins the great and terrible day of the Lord.
I know this message is not teaching the truth. The spiritual entity behind this message does not want anyone to listen to, or donate money to, any true ministers of God. Also, the Day of the Lord cannot start until after Elijah comes. Mal. 4:5,6, the last two verses of the Old Testament, say, "Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet BEFORE THE COMING OF THE GREAT AND DREADFUL DAY OF THE LORD: And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse." Moses and Elijah will prophesy during the first half of the Tribulation. It did not start on October 13, either. The Pre-Trib Rapture has not yet taken place.

Below is something else about Fatima. The country was not the USA, but Russia. Emphasis is mine.

"The Message of Fatima"

"“The THIRD PART OF THE SECRET refers to Our Lady's words: ‘If not [Russia] will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated' (13-VII-1917).

"The THIRD PART OF THE SECRET is a symbolic revelation, referring to this part of the Message, conditioned by whether we accept or not what the Message itself asks of us: ‘IF MY REQUESTS ARE HEEDED, RUSSIA WILL BE CONVERTED, AND THERE WILL BE PEACE; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, etc.'.

"Since we did not heed this appeal of the Message, we see that it has been fulfilled, Russia has invaded the world with her errors. And if we have not yet seen the complete fulfilment of the final part of this prophecy, we are going towards it little by little with great strides. If we do not reject the path of sin, hatred, revenge, injustice, violations of the rights of the human person, immorality and violence, etc.

"And LET US NOT SAY THAT IT IS GOD WHO IS PUNISHING US IN THIS WAY; ON THE CONTRARY IT IS PEOPLE THEMSELVES WHO ARE PREPARING THEIR OWN PUNISHMENT. In his kindness God warns us and calls us to the right path, while respecting the freedom he has given us; hence people are responsible”.
Here is some more information about Fatima.
"Fatima, Portugal " Our Lady of Fatima "

The Blessed Virgin Mary, the Mother of God, appeared 6 times to 3 sheperd children; Lucia, Francisco, and Jacinta; between May 13 and October 13, 1917. She came to the little village of Fatima which had remained faithful to the Catholic Church during the recent persecutions by the government. Our Lady came with a message from God to every man, woman, and child of our century. Our Lady of Fatima promised that the whole world would be in peace, and that many souls would go to Heaven if Her requests were listened to and obeyed...."
The reason I looked this up was because I remembered the date October 13, and had a vague memory of other thirteenth-day apparitions. Thirteen is Satan's number.

Incoming email, Re: My Information

...***I would not trust the calendar program to accurately portray the Hebrew dates for Tishri 1....

> > If you could tell me what your programs show for the first crescent Moon of Tishri and when the Moon is under Virgo's feet at twilight in BC 5 and 3, I would sure appreciate it.

*** Here's what I have for :5BC, Sep. 3 JDN 1719843.1875 (18:30 hrs) local time. Sunday evening in Jerusalem shortly after sunset. Moon alt is 3d50' and azimuth 266d, coordinates RA11h54m,DEC-1d00m, Moon phase 3.3% , Moon near Spica. Sun's altitude is -6d30' at RA10h41m, DEC 8d25', separtation from the Moon 20d30'. This would have been a visible crescent Moon and would therfore have been considered Tishri 1, 3757. The key to Tishri 1 is the sighting of the crescent Moon which would have been easily possible on the above date. Trying to make T1 occur one day later when the Moon was under the feet of Virgo and in Libra is, I think, trying to pound a square peg into a round hole. Therefore the condition of Rev. 12 is not met in the year 5BC.

3BC, Sep. 11, JDN 1720581.1771 (18:15 hrs) local time Wednesday evening in Jerusalem shortly after sunset. Moon alt. of 2d 45' azimuth 259d , coordinates RA 12h 20m, DEC -7d 31', Moon phase 3.8%. Sun's altitude is -5d 22', coordinates RA11h08m, DEC 5d 33', separtation from the Moon 22d 05'. The conditions for Tishri 1, 3759 would have been met with this sighting of the crescent Moon and as it was then under the feet of Virgo and in Virgo, I think the Rev. 12 conditions were also met that day. Earlier in the morning after Sunrise and Moonrise and at 8:00am (JDN 172580.7500), when Virgo was fully above the horizon it is interesting to note that the star due East at the horizon was Zubeneschamali (b Libra)(the price that covers) as I mentioned before. In the evening scenario, Zubeneschamali set at 8:00pm, this time due West.

To me, the astronomy only works and meets the conditions during the JDN 1720580.7500 to 1720581.1771 period, Tishri 1, 3759, which is Sep 11, 3BC (Julian calendar) period. Depending on how some calendars are implemented in software or various other factors, the actual calendar dates that display may be different. But, then, men make the calendars, GOD put the stars where they were at the right time on HIS calendar.

My reply

I sure appreciate your help. This is like working a puzzle. We need all the pieces to see the whole picture.

> > I would not trust the calendar program to accurately portray the Hebrew dates for Tishri 1.

I agree. I haven't found one yet that seemed right in these BC years.

> > The key to Tishri 1 is the sighting of the crescent Moon

I agree. I think the problem is that these astronomy programs are listing the Astronomer's dark New Moon, the conjunction, as Tishri 1. The Hebrew Tishri 1, is later, at or after the Crescent Moon is sighted.

I found this at:
"Another thing to consider is that there isn't an actual "day" of the dark Moon. In the middle east, the Moon stays concealed anywhere from 1.5 to 3.5 days. Tishri 1 should be the day after the first visible Crescent Moon is seen.
"According to Kim Long, who wrote the book called The Moon Book (1988), THE FIRST, VISIBLE CRESCENT MOON (WITH THE CRESCENT OF THE RIGHT) IS GENERALLY SPOTTED TWO OR THREE DAYS AFTER THE ASTRONOMER'S NEW MOON. It is seen by observers as the young crescent moon just after sunset, with the moon following the sun down over the western horizon."

> > 5BC, Sep. 3...This would have been a visible crescent Moon and would therfore have been considered Tishri 1, 3757.

Here's a diagram of Virgo and Libra and some information I have put together. The chart may not print out in your e-mail, but it will in my Pro and Con. It's from David Darling's Encyclopedia of Astrobiology, Astronomy, and Spaceflight
I like his charts of the constellations. He names many of the stars.

This diagram shows Mu Virgo (Rijlal Awwa) in the lower foot of Virgo. I had used 15:51 UTC below to look up the Moon's RA so I could see both Sun and Moon on YourSky's charts of the sky over Jerusalem. Since Saturn was in Aries at the time, it is interesting to note that Right Ascension is measured from the First Point in Aries, where the ecliptic meets the celestial equator at the vernal equinox.

YourSky -4 (BC 5) 15:51 UTC
Aug. 31, Thur. (Astronomer's Tishri 1) Moon still in Leo
--RA Moon 9h 40m 54s, RA Sun 10h 29m 52s, RA Saturn 1h 14m 15s in Aries
Sept. 1, Fri. (Astronomer's Tishri 2) conjunction of Sun and Moon in Virgo
--RA Moon 10h 26m 48s, Sun 10h 33m 34s
Sept. 2, Sat. (Astronomer's Tishri 3) Dark Moon between Sun and Spica
--RA Moon 11h 11m 38s, Sun 10h 37m 16s
Sept. 3, Sun. (Astronomer's Tishri 5) thin crescent Moon near Spica
--RA Moon 11h 56m 14s
Sept. 4, Mon. (Astronomer's Tishri 6) crescent Moon near feet
--RA Moon 12h 41m 37s
Sept. 5, Tue. (Astronomer's Tishri 7) crescent Moon under feet
--RA Moon 13h 28m 52s

At 18:30 hours, YourSky said the Moon's RA on Sept. 3 was 12h 1m 11s. Your program said, "11h 54m." There's only about 7 minutes difference.

> > Trying to make T1 occur one day later when the Moon was under the feet of Virgo and in Libra is, I think, trying to pound a square peg into a round hole. Therefore the condition of Rev. 12 is not met in the year 5BC....
> > 3BC, Sep. 11... Moon...RA 12h 20m...Moon phase 3.8%...The conditions for Tishri 1, 3759 would have been met with this sighting of the crescent Moon and as it was then under the feet of Virgo and in Virgo, I think the Rev. 12 conditions were also met that day.

Well, let's see. On YourSky's chart for Sept. 3, -4 (BC 5), The crescent Moon is near Spica. That is not under the feet. On Sept. 11, -2 (BC 3), the crescent Moon is about half way between Spica and Mu Virgo (Rijlal Awwa) in the lower foot. Neither one fits the Moon being "under her feet" (Rev. 12:1).

I think Rev. 12:1 applies for v. 5 says, "she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up (harpazo) unto God, and to his throne." That's been a hard verse to understand, because 12:5-17 applies to the Great Tribulation. However, it is the only passage in the Bible that could pin point the time of the birth of the Christ child on our calendar. I'll go with it and see where it leads.

The RA I found for the star Rijlal Awwa in the foot of Virgo is 14h 43m 12s. Therefore, I reasoned that when the Moon gets to the feet, its RA would be fairly close to that, and it should be greater than the RA of Spica that I found, 13h 25m 12s. It isn't that simple, for I must not have accurate enough RAs. Maybe you will have better luck looking up all RAs on one program.

Re: BC 3, Sep. 11, you found that the RA of the Moon was 12h 20m. That does not seem to be at the feet. I wish I could send the YourSky charts for Sept. 11 and 13, -2 (BC 3), but they don't come through in your e-mail. Anyway, On Sept. 11, the Moon looks to be about half way between Spica and Mu Virgo (Rijlal Awwa). On Sept. 12, it looks like it is under the feet.

Re: BC 5, Sept. 3, the Moon is near Spica, not the feet. On Sept. 4, the Moon looks nearly under the feet. On Sept. 5, the crescent Moon definitely looks under the feet.

> > it is interesting to note that the star due East at the horizon was Zubeneschamali (b Libra)(the price that covers)

I'm so glad to know what that means. Do you know what the one to the south of the feet, Zubenelgenubi, means? or what Mu Virgo, Riulal Awwa, means?

Thanks so much for your time. Agape

'Faith in the White House' documentary tells story behind President Bush's Christian walk

By Michael Foust, 10-20-04

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (BP)--A new video documentary offers a peek into President Bush's Christian faith, recounting how it helped turn his life around and has guided his presidency....

"He is by all accounts a deeply religious man and one who believes in the power of prayer," author Tom Freiling says in the documentary. "In fact, I have heard several accounts of the president being found in the oval office on his knees in prayer."...

The documentary, narrated by radio host Janet Parshall, opens with Bush's now-famous quote from the 1999 Republican presidential debate in Iowa. Asked to name the political philosopher or thinker he most identified with, Bush responded, "Christ, because he changed my heart."

Asked to expand on his answer, Bush said, "When you turn your heart and your life over to Christ, when you accept Christ as your Savior, he changes your heart and changes your life. And that's what happened to me."...

"When he made the Christ statement, I knew he was speaking from the heart, but as a friend, I thought he had committed political suicide," Wead says.

Instead, the statement helped win over evangelicals, who played a major role in Bush's 2000 victory.

But was Bush's statement sincere? Those interviewed say it was. His uncle, William "Bucky" Bush, says that Bush's Christian faith helped the future president overcome a problem with alcohol in the mid-1980s. As the story goes, Bush made a promise to his wife, Laura, that he was going to quit drinking.

"When he made that commitment to Laura, he was suddenly stone-cold sober," William Bush says. "And he had the character and the willingness and the capacity to remain that way the rest of his life. I'm sure it was his Christian faith that gave him the strength to do so."...

Khmer Rouge Embraces Jesus
Pol Pot's Ruthless Killers Are Repenting Their Sins

By Jason Burke,10-23-4

The Khmer Rouge followed a harsh brand of communism, killing nearly two million people in their bid to return Cambodia to Year Zero. Now they have a new faith: evangelical Christianity.

Hundreds of former fighters have been baptised in the past year. The Khmer Rouge's mountain stronghold, the town of Pailin in south-west Cambodia, has four churches, all with pastors and growing congregations. At least 2,000 of those who followed Pol Pot, the guerrillas' former leader who died six years ago, now worship Jesus....

According to one pastor, 70 per cent of the converts in Pailin are Khmer Rouge. For many, it offers a hope of salvation. 'When I was a soldier I did bad things. I don't know how many we killed. We were following orders and thought it was the right thing to do,' said Thao Tanh, 52. 'I read the Bible and I know it will free me from the weight of the sins I have committed.' The Khmer Rouge have been the focus of a drive by US-based religious groups. Lee Samith, a senior aide of Pailin's governor, was a military intelligence officer for the Khmer Rouge and one of the cadres to convert. He had been repeatedly visited by a missionary from a Colorado-based group, who showed films of the life of Christ. 'I opened my heart and Jesus came in,' said Lee, 36. Like 90 per cent of Cambodians, he was previously a Buddhist. Now he is involved in the New Life Presbyterian Church, on the outskirts of Pailin. Its wooden walls are covered with Christmas decorations and colourful posters portraying the life of Jesus....

The missionaries have built an orphanage and Bible schools. One pastor is planning a kindergarten. Other groups have built wells, marked 'A gift from Jesus'.

Cassini Probe to Fly by Saturn's Moon Titan Tuesday

October 22, 2004 —The Cassini spacecraft is set to buzz through the upper atmosphere of Saturn's moon Titan on Tuesday, using high-tech cameras to peek at its mysterious surface....

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