Pro and Con 1185

Posted 2-28-05

Saturn's "Greatest Portrait Yet"

Ted Chamberlain
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/02/0225_050225_saturn.html
Image courtesy NASA/JPL/Space Science Institute

February 25, 2005—Spotlighted by the sun, Saturn throws its thick shadow across its rings, which in turn throw threads of shade across the planet's blue northern hemisphere. Actually 126 images assembled in a tiled pattern, this natural-color picture is being called the "greatest Saturn portrait" yet by the NASA imaging specialists who released it yesterday....

The Cassini spacecraft got the picture during a two-hour period on October 6, 2004....

Incoming email, Re: 2nd coming

I have been reviewing statements about the coming of Jesus with his Saints and I find the word saint is not a pronoun but an adjective. How do we know who to apply it to? Was all of Jesus' life on earth the 1st Coming? The use of the word "coming" seems to be used in most of the scripture pertaining to a rapture no mater what timing is applied to that event . When does the 2nd Coming start and end?

My reply

I thought "saint" was a noun, and "saintly" could be used to describe a spiritual Christian. Phi 4:21 says, "Salute every saint (Strong's 40) in Christ Jesus." The saint in Christ Jesus is a Christian, one of the brethren.

Strong's 40 says, "hagios...(most) holy (one, thing), saint." That seems like saint is a noun, a holy person.

There are both spiritual and carnal Christians. I Cor. 3:1 says, "I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ." The words "spiritual" and "carnal" are adjectives describing the pronoun "you" that represents the noun "brethren." The spiritual brethren are saints. Wouldn't "saints" be a noun? The adjective "spiritual" modifies "you," the pronoun that represents the noun "brethren."

> > Was all of Jesus' life on earth the 1st Coming?

Actually, the words "coming" and "advent" refer to the instant of arrival, i.e., his conception or his birth. However, we refer to his entire lifetime on Earth as the First Coming.

> > The use of the word "coming" seems to be used in most of the scripture pertaining to a rapture no mater what timing is applied to that event.

I think there are two Raptures, Pre-Trib and Pre-Wrath. He comes as far as the clouds, then the saints rise up to meet him in the air.

The Pre-Trib Rapture is the first trump, and is described in I Thess. 4:13-18. The Pre-Wrath Rapture is "the last trump," and is described in I Cor. 15:51-53.

Both trumps refer us back to when Moses was told to make TWO SILVER TRUMPETS for calling the assembly. Nu. 10:1-4 says, "the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. And when they shall blow with them (i.e., both), all the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation (that represents the general assembly in Heaven, Heb. 12:23). And if they blow but with ONE TRUMPET, then the princes, which are heads of the thousands of Israel (i.e., John and the other 23 elders of Rev. 4:4), shall gather themselves unto thee."

This gathering is the first Rapture (Rev. 4:1). It's at the first "trump of God" (I Thess. 4:15).

The Pre-Wrath Rapture is at the time when both trumps are blown. This is referred to in Mark 13:27. It says, "then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH (the Pre-Wrath Rapture) to the uttermost part of HEAVEN" (to gather to the general assembly in Heaven those that were taken to Heaven before the Tribulation).

I Thess. 4:15 says, For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the COMING (parousia) of the Lord shall not prevent (Old English for precede) them which are asleep."

> > When does the 2nd Coming start and end?

The Second Coming is when he sets his feet on the Mt. of Olives, which splits (Zech. 14:5). I think he will come on Nisan 1, 5771 (April 5, 2011), the first day of the Hebrew Regnal and Sacred Year. How long he will stay on Earth, I don't know. He is to rule over Earth for 1000 years, but his kingdom has no end.

At some point, Christ will set up King David on Earth as a prince under Him. Christ will rule from the heavenly New Jerusalem. Rev. 22:3 says, "And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb (of Christ, who is both God and Jesus, the Lamb of God) shall be in it (the heavenly city); and his servants shall serve him". Verse 5 says, "there shall be no night there."

On Earth there is day and night, seedtime and harvest. In Heaven there is no night. Rev. 21:23,24 says, "And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it." It seems that New Jerusalem will come down and orbit the Earth like the Moon during the Millennium. Agape

Incoming email, Re: Sun/Uranus/Pope/Crucifixion

As you know, the Pope has had surgery today. The Sun and Uranus are having a conjunction over the next few days. If the date of the crucifixion I use is correct (Friday,April 7th, 30 AD, Julian or US calendar)(JDN 1732112)(***see note), then it should be noted that the planet Uranus (death) was in conjunction with the "king star" Regulus in Leo , symbolic of the Lion of the tribe of Judah. The evening before was a Full Moon as it was Passover, beginning Thursday evening.

Today is Purim on the Hebrew calendar with a full Moon tonight and Sushan Purim on Friday. The Fast of Esther was on Wednesday.

A timeline count from crucifixion to tomorrow (Friday 2/25) is 7211315 and from the resurrection (Sunday, 4/9/30AD) to Friday 2/25 would be 7211313. Just as Christ was "cut off" on Palm Sunday, the Pope may have been "silenced" or is nearing that point. In this modern age of medicine, your point about dual reigning Popes is certainly possible.

***note:
April 6th, Thursday, 30AD also could be the crucifixion if the generally accepted Jewish calendar dates for Nisan 1, 3790 a Wed-Thur, March 22-23 is correct. The problem I have with that is the new Moon occurred the evening of March 22 at 22:27 hrs, impossible to sight and should have required the beginning of Nisan 1 to be pushed forward one day to the evening of March 23, Thursday when a new crescent Moon could have been seen in the evening sky after sunset. This also seems to better resolve the timeline mentioned in John 12: 1,12.

My reply

> > If the date of the crucifixion I use is correct (Friday,April 7th

Friday, April 7 was the Passover, Nisan 14. However, Jesus died on the previous day, "the preparation of the passover" (John 19:14), as the lambs that were to be roasted were being killed between the evenings (i.e., between 3 and 5 PM on Thursday. They had to be roasted and eaten before Nisan 14 was 6 hours old at midnight. I think that Jesus was put into the stone tomb as many lambs were being put into stone ovens. Flat stones probably served as oven doors and were leaned against the doorway as the stone was rolled in front of the doorway of the tomb.

John 19:14 says, "And IT WAS THE PREPARATION OF THE PASSOVER, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!. But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar. Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified."

The three days and three nights in the heart of the Earth were Thursday (day), Friday (night then day), Saturday (night then day), and Sunday (night).

> > This also seems to better resolve the timeline mentioned in John 12: 1,12

John 12:1,12 says, "Then Jesus six days before the passover came to Bethany, where Lazarus was, which had been dead, whom he raised from the dead....On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem"

Jesus arrived at Bethany as Saturday, Nisan 8, began. They served him food that had been prepared on Friday. The six days were Nisan 8 (Saturday), 9 (Palm Sunday), 10 (Monday), 11 (Tuesday), 12 (Wednesday) and 13 (Thursday, Crucifixion Day).

On Sunday, Jesus offered himself as King and was rejected by the Pharisees. On Monday, Jesus cursed the fig tree that had no fruit. On Tuesday, the fig tree was dried up, and "after two days (Wednesday and Thursday) was the passover" (Mark 14:1).

On the "third day," Jesus was to "rise again". He did. The three days were Friday, Saturday and Sunday. Luke 24:7 says, "The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified (on Thursday), and the third day (Sunday) rise again."

The three days and three nights in the heart of the earth (Mt. 12:40) were: Thursday (day), Friday (night then day), Saturday (night then day), and Sunday (night). Everything fits.

"Now the next day (Friday), that followed the day of the preparation (Thursday), the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate, Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive (then he was already dead on Friday), After three days (Thursday, Friday and Saturday) I will rise again (on Sunday). Command therefore that the sepulchre be made sure until the third day" (Sunday) (Mt. 27:62-64).

Luke 24:21 says, "But we (the two men on the road to Emmaus) trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day (Sunday, 1st day of the week, v. 1) is the third day since these things were done." The third day since is Sunday (i.e., Friday, Saturday, and Sunday).

"ON THE EVE OF PESAH THEY HUNG JESHU [the Nazarene]. And the crier went forth before him forty days (saying), [Jeshu the Nazarene] goeth forth to be stoned, because he hath practiced magic and deceived and led astray Israel. Any one who knoweth aught in his favour, let him come and declare concerning him. And they found naught in his favour. And THEY HUNG HIM ON THE EVE OF PESAH.) (the Talmud, Babylonian Tractate, Sanhedrin, Folio 43a).

Jesus was crucified, hung on the tree, on the Eve of Passover (Thursday, Nisan 13, 3790, April 6, 30 AD). Passover was on Friday (Nisan 14, April 7). Everything fits. Agape

His reply, Re: Calendar Software error

Yes, it all seems to fit; but, most of the calendar software available has Nisan 14, 3790 occurring on Tuesday 6:00pm to Wednesday 6:00pm and Nisan 15, 3790 from Wednesday 6:00pm to Thursday 6:00pm. I think this is where the problem lies for many who are attempting to resolve the times, days and dates.

My reply

You are right. The Hebrew Calendar Converters don't work for dates that far back.

(http://jubileeinstruments.messianic-webhosting.com/hebcal.htm) says that April 6, 30 was Nisan 17, 3790.
(http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/conv.htm) says that April 6, 30 was Saturday, Nisan 17, 3790.
(http://www.calendarhome.com/converter/) says that April 6, 30 was Saturday, Nisan 17, 3790.

(http://www.hebcal.com/converter/?gd=6&gm=4&gy=30&g2h=Compute+Hebrew+Date&hd=18&hm=Adar1&hy=5765) says:
Hebrew Date Converter
WARNING: Results for year 1752 C.E. and before may not be accurate. Hebcal does not take into account a correction of ten days that was introduced by Pope Gregory XIII known as the Gregorian Reformation. For more information, read about the adoption of the Gregorian Calendar.

6 April 0030 = 17th of Nisan, 3790.
---
Therefore, we can tell that April 6, 30 was probably NOT Saturday, Nisan 17, 3790. Not only the switch from Julian to Gregorian caused error, the Hebrew calendar since Hillel has rules of postponement that were probably not used in 30 AD.

Since the Hebrew month in 30 AD was set by sighting the crescent New Moon, the astronomy programs do a better job.

TheSky6 says that April 6, 30 was Thursday, and Saturn was in Gemini.
YourSky says that April 6, 30 was Thursday, and Saturn was in Gemini.
These are consistant. These I can believe. I think that:
Nisan 13 was Thursday April 6, 30. It was "the preparation of the passover," Crucifixion Day.
Nisan 14 was Friday, April 7, 30. It was the Feast of Passover, the "high day."
Nisan 15 was Saturday, April 8, 30. It was the Feast of Unleavened Bread.
Nisan 16 was Sunday, April 9, 30. It was the Feast of Firstfruits.
I also have on my computer a calendar program that says that April 6, 30 was Thursday.

These agree with the Bible too. Lev. 23:15 says concerning the countdown to Pentecost, "ye shall count unto you from the morrow (Sunday) after the sabbath (Saturday), from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering (on Sunday, the first day of the week, the Feast of Firstfruits). Firstfruits was on Sunday in 30 AD. That agrees with the astronomy programs. Agape

Incoming email

The Lekarev Report
http://www.lekarev.org

...It's quite warm and flowers are starting to bloom everywhere. It's time to come to Israel!!! Shalom and blessings, Leah

Song of Solomon 2:12,13 says, "The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds is come, and the voice of the turtle (lit., turtledove) is heard in our land..." Then the flowers come first. The doves come in April. I hope that by Pentecost, we will hear, "Arise, my love, my fair one, and come away."

(Great article with several links to visit)"ARE THE JEWS NOW PLANNING TO BUILD EZEKIEL'S TEMPLE?"

By Donna Danna
(Many thanks Donna, MJA)
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/feb2005/donnad226-2.htm

In answer to the question are the Jews now planning to build Ezekiel's Temple, the answer is NO. If you read this article called HOW DO WE UNDERSTAND THE VISION OF THE FUTURE TEMPLE AS DESCRIBED IN THE BOOK OF EZEKIEL?at http://www.templeinstitute.org/future_temple.htm it shows that the Third Temple will be built using the pattern of the Second Temple, and that the present Temple Mount site is not large enough to hold Ezekiel's Temple which will be the Millenial Temple. From reading this article, it looks like they don't even need to wait for the Messiah to arrive to build the temple, or for them to help him build the temple once he arrives....

(It also says, "According to Ezekiel's measurements, the new Temple will be so large that it will occupy the entire area of the city of Jerusalem. Ezekiel's prophecy explains that both the Temple Mount and the Mount of Olives will be enlarged and expanded in the future.")
---
(At other links given by Donna:)
Partition, The Middle Wall Of
John Rutherfurd
http://bibletools.org/index.cfm/fuseaction/Def.show/RTD/ISBE/ID/6708

...In the year 1871, while excavations were being made on the site of the temple by the Palestine Exploration Fund, M. Clermont-Ganneau discovered one of the pillars which Josephus describes as having been erected upon the very barrier or middle wall of partition, to which Paul refers. This pillar is now preserved in the Museum at Constantinople and is inscribed with a Greek inscription in capital or uncial letters, which is translated as follows:

NO MAN OF ANOTHER NATION
TO ENTER WITHIN THE FENCE AND
ENCLOSURE ROUND THE TEMPLE,
AND WHOEVER IS CAUGHT WILL
HAVE HIMSELF TO BLAME THAT
HIS DEATH ENSUES

While Paul was writing the Epistle to the Ephesians at Rome, this barrier in the temple at Jerusalem was still standing, yet the chained prisoner of Jesus Christ was not afraid to write that Christ had broken down the middle wall of partition, and had thus admitted Gentiles who were far off, strangers and foreigners, to all the privileges of access to God in ancient times possessed by Israel alone; that separation between Jew and Gentile was done away with forever in Christ.

4. The Throwing Down of the Barrier:

If Paul wrote the Epistle to the Ephesians in 60 or 61 AD, then the actual barrier of stone remained in its position in the Court of the Gentiles not more than some 10 years, for it was thrown down in the burning of the temple by the Roman army. And out of those ruins a fragment has been excavated in our own day, containing the very inscription threatening death to the Gentileintruder, and reminding us that it is only in Christ Jesus that we now draw nigh unto God, and that we are thus one body in Christ, one new man. Christ has broken down the middle wall of partition, for He, in His own person, is our peace...
---

The Millennial Temple
A Study of Ezekiel chapters 40-48
http://www.pauljab.net/temple/TemplePictures.html
(2 of 8 pictures)

---
Herod Temple
The Temple at the times of Jesus
http://biblia.com/bible/temp-herod.htm

(Western Wall, Wailing Wall)

Incoming email

I am sure you are inundated with e-mails from people who are concerned about you and Ed. Are you ok? It has been a long time since you have posted on your website. I will lift the two of you up. By the way, once a long time ago I wrote you and asked you about the age of accountability and my daughter being "covered" by my salvation. You will be happy to know that she is now 14, and, praise God, she got saved last summer! Thanks so much

My outgoing email

Praise the Lord! That is good news.

I am unable to upload to my main website right now. So far, we haven't been able to figure out why It keeps saying that I have an invalid password. I am now uploading my new Pro and Cons on my Earthlink web site. The Home Page and Pro and Cons 1179 - 1184 are at http://home.earthlink.net/~mjagee1 Agape

Her reply

Thank you so much for letting me know you are still with us. I would rejoice if you had gone home to be with our Heavenly Father, but I am still selfish enough to want you around until the rapture. I am really looking forward to meeting you then, to thank you in person for the profound impact you have had on my life. I have been a Christian since I was 13, but was very back-slidden (if that is a word) for many years, and God used you to help bring me back in line about 6 or 7 years ago. May God bless you and keep you. Thanks so much

My Reply

Thank you for your kind words.

Incoming email

Certainly possible that Pope John Paul could continue on for many years; but, my feeling is he will pass on or be replaced this year. We will see.

Day of Week of the Full Moon of Passover

Astronomical Dating the Crucifixion
http://www.harvardhouse.com/prophetictech/new/lunar2.htm

I disagree with his date for the Crucifixion, because I disagree with what he was looking for:
"A. On Friday
B. In the years AD 31, 32 or 33
C. A full moon must occur between 24 to 72 hours after the crucifixion (i.e. on Saturday, Sunday or Monday)"

However, here are his astronomical dates of the Paschal Full Moon.

Sunday, April 17, 29 AD
Thursday, April 6, 30 AD
Wednesday, April 25, 31 AD
Monday, April 14, 32 AD
Friday, April 3, 33 AD

I compared these dates to Fred Espenak's Phases of the Moon chart (at NASA). The only difference is the possibility of either March 27 or April 25 in 31 AD. If April 25 is Wednesday, March 27 would be on Tuesday. Therefore, if the Crucifixion was on Thursday, as I think it had to be, only April 6, 30 AD fits. I agree that the day of the week points to 30 AD.

Incoming email, Re: Surprising new study on Shroud of Turin

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=43062

2-26-05 - Simple technique could have been used to produce image
By Aaron Rench

MOSCOW, Idaho – The Shroud of Turin has long baffled scientists and scholars, Christians and skeptics for over seven centuries. The cloth bears a photonegative image of a man crucified and is thought by many to be the miraculously preserved burial cloth of Christ. Over the years, skeptics have been unable to convincingly demonstrate how any medieval forger could have produced such an image.

N.D. Wilson, a fellow of literature at New St. Andrews College in Moscow, Idaho, believes that he has done just that.

"The Shroud has always been particularly mysterious because the image is both three-dimensional and a photonegative," Wilson says. "Artists are simply not able to produce images like that on their own, and so many conclude the Shroud is an authentic relic of Christ's resurrection. What I've done is demonstrate how easy it could have been for a medieval to create a three-dimensional photonegative."

Wilson, who describes his experiment in an article published in Books and Culture, (March/April, 2005) as well as on his website, began his experiment by painting faces on glass. The painted panes of glass were then set on top of linen and left in the sun for various lengths of time. Dr. Scott Minnich, a microbiologist well-known in Intelligent Design circles, provided Wilson with scientific advice on structuring his experiment. Minnich was not expecting the results the experiment produced.

"The success of these experiments was a surprise to me," Minnich said. "And as Nate [Wilson] aptly concludes in his paper, it doesn't disprove the Shroud's authenticity. However, it does show an alternative hypothesis for its making that has not been considered to my knowledge. And I don't think he goes beyond the data in his interpretation."...


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