Pro and Con 1187

Posted 2-11-05

I lost all my incoming e-mails

It was somewhere during the System Recovery, Recover Only, Microsoft updates, and downloadind new programs because the old ones would not open. I am still trying to figure out how to use them. Whew! At first, I couldn't even get online. Earthlink taught me a work-around and then mailed me a different CD. So far, my printer won't reinstall.

I still don't know for sure what caused the problem with passwords, but suspect the last downloads I got just before the problem shut me out of my main web site. I was finally able to update my main web site last night. Went to bed at 3 AM.

Incoming email, Re: end times

News on planned temple sacrifice:
by Cal Crilly

...On the 10th April the Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement, together with the Chai v'Kaiyam organization, intend to hold a PASSOVER SACRIFICE on the Temple Mount. THIS WILL BE DONE ON AN ALTAR WHICH IS ALREADY READY.

NABLUS, March 8, 2005 ( – Extremist Jewish settlers are planning to storm Al-Aqsa Mosque, Islam's third holiest place, by next April, Al-according to Al-Aqsa Institution for Reconstruction of Islamic Sanctities. Leaders of Jewish settlers have declared some 10,000 settlers are planning to storm the holy mosque in a bid to perform Jewish "religious rituals" in the holy place, they claim to be the site of "Temple Mount".

Leaflets are being distributed by Jewish settlers to urge Jews to join the storming of the Islamic holy site on April 10.

My reply

April 10 is Sunday, Nisan 1 on the Hillel Calendar. It is not Passover, which is Saturday, Nisan 14 (April 23, 05). If I remember right, the red heifer is to be burned to ashes on the Mount of Olives.

If Adar II (13th month in a Hebrew Leap Year) is eliminated, as the Karaites seem to be trying to do because they have found abib barley, Nisan 14 would be March 25, not April 10.

On Five Doves site, "re the "silence in heaven" at Seal 7"

Dianne Talsma (4 March 2005)
"re the "silence in heaven" at Seal 7"

Shalom All:
I know some of you have posted items of that "silence" at Seal 7 already.

Could you please repost those thoughts again? I'm espcially interested in any that might indicate a little more than a "week" of time - 7 days - in Heaven.
Thanks in advance!

A timeline of the Revelation Seals:

My reply

I think the "silence in heaven" and the silence upon "all the earth" takes place when Christ is seated as judge at the Judgment Seat of Christ in Heaven. Even now, on earth, we stand and keep silent while judges are being seated in court. The silence shows our respect. Rom. 14.10 says, "WE SHALL ALL STAND BEFORE THE JUDGMENT SEAT OF CHRIST."

It is after Christ breaks the seventh seal, just prior to the outpouring of the seven trumpet judgments upon the unbelievers left on Earth after the Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Tribulation saints.

There will be silence both in Heaven and on Earth. Rev. 8:1,2 says, "when he (Christ, the Lamb of God) had opened the seventh seal, there was SILENCE IN HEAVEN about the space of half an hour. And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given seven trumpets." Hab. 2:20 says, "But the LORD is in his holy temple: let all the EARTH KEEP SILENCE before him."

Psa. 50:4-6 says, "HE (our God, Christ) SHALL CALL TO THE HEAVENS FROM ABOVE, AND TO THE EARTH, THAT HE MAY JUDGE HIS PEOPLE. Gather my saints together unto me (both those in Heaven and those on Earth, Mark 13:27); those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice. And the heavens shall declare his righteousness: for GOD (YHWH of hosts, Christ, Isa. 44:6) IS JUDGE HIMSELF. Selah (pause and think of that)." John 5:22 says, "THE FATHER JUDGETH NO MAN, BUT HATH COMMITTED ALL JUDGMENT UNTO THE SON."

Isa. 40:1-4 says, "Keep silence before me, O islands; and let the people renew their strength: let them come near; then let them speak: let us come near together to JUDGMENT....Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD (YHWH), the first (YHWH king of Israel), and with the last (YHWH of hosts); I am he" (Christ, both the first (YHWH king of Israel and the last, YHWH of hosts, Isa. 44:6).

The silence is on the Day of the Lord. Amos 5:13-24 says, "Therefore the prudent shall KEEP SILENCE in that time; for it is an evil time. Seek good, and not evil, that ye may live: and so the LORD, the God of hosts (YHWH of hosts, the Redeemer, Christ, Isa. 44:6), shall be with you, as ye have spoken. Hate the evil, and love the good, and ESTABLISH JUDGMENT IN THE GATE: it may be that THE LORD GOD OF HOSTS will be gracious unto the remnant of Joseph.... Woe unto you that desire THE DAY OF THE LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light."

The saints, both those previously caught up to Heaven in the Pre-Trib Rapture and those caught up in the Pre-Wrath Rapture before noon (Zeph. 2:3-5) on the Day of the Lord, are called "To THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY AND CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN, WHICH ARE WRITTEN IN HEAVEN, AND TO GOD THE JUDGE OF ALL, and to the spirits of just men MADE PERFECT" (Heb. 12:23).

All saints are made perfect at the same time. Heb. 11:40 says, "God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be MADE PERFECT."

At this time of the "last trump," all saints will be changed, actually become immortal (I Cor. 15:51,52). Agape

Understand the Revelation

The rider on the white horse is even now galloping across the globe and there is no power in the universe that can check his advance. Yahweh's Truth is currently demolishing the strongholds of human ignorance and error and there is scarcely a country on earth where the light of the gospel has not begun to shine. People may, of course, choose not to believe God's Truth, but there is absolutely no way any person or government can stop its advance. Yes, the events under the first seal have already begun....

Yes, there is little doubt, the second horseman of the Apocalypse, the rider on the red horse, like the white horse before him, is even now breaking into a gallop; and the thunder of his hoof beats can be heard around the world....

The rider on the black horse may not be moving at speed in the West, but I can assure you that in the East, in South America and Africa he is out there in the field and he is soon to break into an earthshaking gallop....

To be sure, the rider on the pale horse has begun to ride and death is following closely at his heels....

My comments

I don't think any of the four horsemen have begun to operate under the first four seals. Until the Rapture takes place, Jesus has not been given the seven-sealed book. That happens in Rev. 5:7.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ is organized around the Pre-Trib Rapture. In Rev. 1:19, Jesus said to John, "Write the things which thou hast seen (i.e., things before the Rapture), and the things which are (at the time of the Rapture), and the things which shall be hereafter" (after the Rapture).

The messages to the 7 churches are before the Rapture. Rev. 4:1 is at the time of the Rapture. It says, "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard (Christ's, Rev. 1:8-11) was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be HEREAFTER."

From Rev. 4:1 on, everything is "HEREAFTER" the Pre-Trib Rapture until Rev. 22:10-21. At that time, the Rapture "time is at hand" (v. 10) again as it is in Rev. 1:3, where it says, "the time is at hand." All of "The Revelation of Jesus Christ" is written as if viewed from the vantage point of the Pre-Trib Rapture.

After John is caught up to Heaven with the other 23 elders, all 24 are seen wearing their crowns and seated on 24 thrones in Rev. 4:4. In Rev. 5:9, we find out that the 24 elders of Israel were among many saints from all nations who were caught up to Heaven at the same time. Rev. 5:9 says, "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou (Christ) art worthy to take THE BOOK, AND TO OPEN THE SEALS thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation."

No seal can be opened until Jesus is given "THE BOOK" after the Rapture of the wise Philadelphian virgins.

Rev. 6:1 starts out, "And I (John, one of the 24 elders) saw when the Lamb (Christ) opened ONE OF THE SEALS." Verse 3 says, "And when he (Christ) had opened the second seal." Verse 5 says, And when he (Christ) had opened the third seal." Verse 7 says, "And when he (Christ) had opened the fourth seal." Verse 9 says, "And when he (Christ) had opened the fifth seal." Verse 12 says, "And I beheld when he (Christ) had opened the sixth seal." Rev. 8:1 says, "And when he (Christ) had opened the seventh seal."

Christ is given the book and opens all 7 seals AFTER the Pre-Trib Rapture has taken place.


Marianne Haworth (7 Mar 2005) on Five Doves site

Hi John and Doves,
here a picture of Saturn with rings taken by my friend who is an amature astronomer. he said that Saturn would be way too cold for any life as it is too far from the sun.

The idea of Saturn being the third heaven isn't true.(in my humble opinion).

I believe that all God's heaven is a home way beyond our galaxy and since we get spiritual bodies when we die, we fly through the universe to get there and it will take us seconds. No we don't need a physical planet as a heaven.

God lives outside space as he is bigger than the universe, yes his spirit resides in us.

It is an interesting thought but to me it sounds too far fetched to take Saturn as heaven.

I can't find the link to Marilyn's letter about this, but these are my thoughts. Marianna.

My reply

> > The idea of Saturn being the third heaven isn't true.(in my humble opinion)

IMHO, it is a reasonable assumption. Josephus, a Pharisee priest, told us about the seven-branched candlestick that was in the temple prior to its destruction in 70 AD. He said, It was made with its knops, and lilies, and pomegranates, and bowls, (which ornaments amounted to seventy in all;) by which means the shaft elevated itself on high from a single base, and spread itself into AS MANY BRANCHES AS THERE ARE PLANETS, INCLUDING THE SUN AMONG THEM. It terminated in seven heads, in one row, all standing parallel to one another; and these branches carried seven lamps, one by one, IN IMITATION OF THE NUMBER OF THE PLANETS." (Ant. III. VI. 7).

In Wars of the Jews (V. V. 5), Josephus said, "...the candlestick, table [of shew-bread.] and the altar of incense. Now THE SEVEN LAMPS SIGNIFIED THE SEVEN PLANETS; for so many there were springing out of the candlestick. Now, THE TWELVE LOAVES THAT WERE UPON THE TABLE SIGNIFIED THE CIRCLE OF THE ZODIAC AND THE YEAR..."

The arms that held the lamps were semi-circles, suggesting that the orbits of the planets were circular. The western lamp was always to be kept lit. It represented the Sun. The 7 lamps in order represented (1) the Sun, (2) Mercury, (3) Venus, (4) Earth, in the middle, (5) Mars, (6) Jupiter, and (7) Saturn on the far right, the eastern light. All these planets are naked-eye planets known to the ancients.

Looking at the candlestick, start in the middle. That center lamp represents Earth. Under the lamp is a globe. To the east of Earth are three more globes, planets, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn.

Saturn is the third heaven as viewed from the Earth. Paul was caught up to the third heaven. II Cor. 12:2 says, "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven." How could the 3rd heaven be anything but Saturn?"

In Eze. 1, the 4 cherubim are the terrestrial planets (Mercury, Venus, Earth and Mars). The wheels are their orbits in concentric circles around the Sun, the "fire infolding itself" (1:4), and "one wheel (orbit) upon the earth" (1:15).

Over the heads of the terrestrial planets is another planet. Upon that planet is "the likeness of a throne (Christ's), AS THE APPEARANCE OF A SAPPHIRE STONE" (Eze. 1:26. Sapphire means dear to the planet Saturn, from the Sanskrit Sani, Saturn, and priya, dear.

At Mt. Sinai (probably derived from the same as Sani), Ex. 24:10 says, "And they saw the God of Israel (YHWH of hosts, the Redeemer, Isa. 44:6): and THERE WAS UNDER HIS FEET AS IT WERE A PAVED WORK OF A SAPPHIRE STONE, and as it were the body of heaven (heavenly body) in his clearness."

Around the sapphire throne is "brightness round about. As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about" (Eze. 1:27,28). This describes Saturn's 7 rings.

In Zech. 3:9,10 (LXX), it says, "I bring forth my servant the branch. For as for the STONE (i.e., planet) which I have set before the face of Jesus, on the one STONE ARE SEVEN EYES (orbs, circles, rings). Agape

Incoming email, Re: Aviv Barley Found


After half a day of study as to why the rabbinical calendar is the result of some eight hundred years of alterations to the true Scriptural Hebrew calendar, the Aviv Barley team took a field trip some sixteen kilometers to the east of Jerusalem, to train up on what Aviv barley might look like. During the field trip, Aviv barley was found (in quantity) in all three of the barley fields visited, and the Aviv was declared.

With Aviv Barley already found, the Karaites will search for the first crescent sliver of the new moon this coming preparation day. The illumination is expected to be high. However, even if the first crescent sliver of the new moon is not visible due to heavy cloud cover, this preparation day will mark thirty (30) days since the last crescent sliver of the new moon crescent was sighted; and therefore it will be the new moon by default.

At this time, the dates for the Spring Festivals are:

Passover: Conjunction of the 14th and 15th days of the 1st Hebrew month (afternoon and evening of 3/25/05).

1st of Unleavened Bread: 15th day of 1st Hebrew month (sunset 3/25 through sunset 3/26/05).

7th of Unleavened Bread: 21st day of the 1st Hebrew month (sunset 3/31 through sunset 4/1/05).

Shavuot (Pentecost): 6th day of the 3rd Hebrew month (sunset 5/14 through sunset 5/15/05).

Some will say the Aviv sighting came a month early. This is the wrong frame of reference. Hebrew tradition is that it is a bride (Israel) who waits upon her Husband (YHWH).

The barley has ben found to be Aviv in the time appointed by the Elah of the heavens (YHWH of hosts). The truth is that it is the rabbinical calendar which is one month behind YHWH's calendar this year; and this is in-and-of-itself proof-positive that the rabbinical calendar is incorrect.

May it serve His people.

Yosef ben Ruach
A servant of our Master>
The Israelite sect of the Nazarenes
Re-establishing the original faith of the apostles

Aviv Found

In case you have not heard this yet.
From: "Nehemia Gordon"
Reply-To: 8 Mar 2005

Aviv Found!

On Tuesday March 8, 2005 Aviv was found in Israel at Alon Junction and Ein Mabua near Jerusalem. Large quantities of Aviv barley were found near Ein Mabua and smaller quantities near Alon Junction....The main Aviv Search, which will cover the Northern Negev and Jordan Valley regions,will still be carried out on March 10-11. However, the vast quantities of Aviv Barley already located east of Jerusalem are enough to establish the coming month as the Month of the Aviv. In light of this discovery, the New Moon on Friday March 11, 2005 will be the beginning of the coming biblical year. Chag HaMatzot (Feast of Unleavened Bread) will fall out on Saturday March 26, 2005 and Shavuot (Feast of Weeks) will fall out on May 15, 2005....
Nehemia Gordon

"The Sanhedrin´s Declaration Concerning the Disengagement" (They rejected it.)

"$2.34: A Rapture Clue Revisited"

John Tng (9 March 2005)

The amount of money left by the angel for Vincent Tan is a most intriguing rapture clue. I first got to know about it through Jim Bramlett who is a great source of end times information. Jim wrote:

"The number 234 was first noted in the ending of Vincent Tan's second angel encounter on December 23, 1993. Vincent had helped an old man (angel) get his truck started. During their conversation, the old man (angel) himself brought up the subject of Christ's return, saying, "HE IS COMING VERY, VERY SOON." The purpose of this divine incident was no doubt to deliver that six-word message from heaven, which by God's grace and provision has now circulated around the world many times. Here is the last portion of the carefully documented story in part:
The man said, "Thank you very much for your help. By the way, I left a small token for you. It will be enough to fill up your car tomorrow." That was strange, because there was no way for the man to know that Vincent had a car in addition to his truck. Vincent followed him about a mile with the man's tail lights clearly in view, then as they were going around a curve, he suddenly vanished from view. He and his truck just disappeared. Thinking his vision may have been obstructed by trees or something, Vincent even went back the next day during the daylight and retraced everything. There were no trees or anything obstructing his view. There was no human explanation.

Also the next day, as he always does on Friday, Vincent took his car to the service station to fill up the tank with gasoline, so it would be full for the weekend. He had forgotten what the man had said about leaving a token "to fill up your car tomorrow." Vincent put $2.32 worth of gas in his car, then tried to round it off to $2.35 or $2.40. But he could only get it up to $2.34 and it stopped. It just would not take more than exactly $2.34. Vincent then left to visit a friend's house, but remembered that he had left the friend's Christmas gift in his truck, so he went back home. When home, Vincent decided to clean his truck a bit before leaving. While doing so, he found some money on the front seat, passenger's side, underneath his glove. The money consisted of two one-dollar bills, a quarter, a nickel, and four pennies -- exactly $2.34!"

For the full story of this angel encounter, go to (see encounter # 3). ---
...Four Denominations with a total of $2.34

The money left by the angel seems to point to TWO dates -- May 25, 2004 and Apr 25, 2005. The first date fell on a Hebrew feast day, the day of Pentecost, which began 6pm sundown. The second date ALSO falls on a Hebrew feast day, the Firstfruits, which is the second day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. Apr 25, 2005 is Nisan 16, the FIRST day of the Counting of the Omer when a sheaf of barley firstfruits is waved before the Lord.

May 25, 2004 fell on Sivan 5, the eve of Pentecost. It is the LAST (49th) day of the Counting of the Omer! (There is no counting on Pentecost -- the 50th day from Nisan 16, the Firstfruits.)

The two dates encoded in the angel money turn out to be the FIRST and LAST days of the Counting of the Omer!...

Pentecost began 6pm sundown on May 25, 2004. While a sheaf of barley firstfruits is WAVED on Firstfruits, two leavened loaves are WAVED on Pentecost. The Lord Jesus rose on Firstfruits as a wave sheaf, holy unto the Lord. Surely this suggests that the two wave loaves are also a kind of resurrection offering. I am inclined to believe that the Church, neither Jews nor Gentiles (TWO wave loaves), shall be offered on Pentecost.

Pentecost is also known as the Day of the Firstfruits (Num 28:26) and the Feast of the Firstfruits of Wheat Harvest (Ex 34:22). The Counting of the Omer is the interval between Firstfruits and Pentecost. The former is barley firstfruits while the latter wheat firstfruits....

Besides, these two dates exhibit rather unusual properties that are self-corroborative.

It is time now to enter into specifics.

Money from the Almighty?

The four denominations of money are not a random collection. There is rhyme and reason. Have we received a rapture clue from God the Almighty? I believe we have! His signature is imprinted on the money.... [Note: For background on the signature of the Almighty, please read the second article of my series, "The Shaddai Mystery" at]

Briefly, the Hebrew gematria of the Almighty (Shaddai) is 314. This number appears in many places in God's design. The number pi (3.14) is one example....

The TWO Intriguing Dates

How are dates derived from the four denominations of money? First, study the four denominations closer: $2, 25c, 5c and 4c. The two 1-dollar notes stand apart from the three coin denominations. Due to their sheer size and value (200c), the two 1-dollar notes can be regarded as 2,000 years. The quarter (25c) can only represent day while the nickle (5c) and 4 pennies (4c) may represent month or day. Also, the quarter, the nickle and the 4 pennies may be added as years to 2,000 years represented by the two 1-dollar notes....

There are ONLY SEVEN possible dates from all combinations of these four denominations once it is accepted that the two 1-dollar notes represent 2,000 years. All four denominations must be used in forming each date.

No Date Month Day Year
1 Apr 30, 2000 Apr <= 4c 30 <= 25c + 5c 2000 <= $2
2 May 29, 2000 May <= 5c 29 <= 25c + 4c 2000 <= $2
3 Sep 25, 2000 Sep <= 5c + 4c 25 <= 25c 2000 <= $2
4 May 25, 2004 May <= 5c 25 <= 25c 2004 <= $2 + 4c
5 Apr 25, 2005 Apr <= 4c 25 <= 25c 2005 <= $2 + 5c
6 Apr 5, 2025 Apr <= 4c 5 <= 5c 2025 <= $2 + 25c
7 May 4, 2025 May <= 5c 4 <= 4c 2025 <= $2 + 25c...

No Date Hebrew Calendar Hebrew Feast
1 Apr 30, 2000 Nisan 25 10th day of Omer
2 May 29, 2000 Iyyar 24 39th day of Omer
3 Sep 25, 2000 Elul 25
4 May 25, 2004 Sivan 5 49th day of Omer Pentecost
5 Apr 25, 2005 Nisan 16 1st day of Omer Firstfruits
6 Apr 5, 2025 Nisan 7
7 May 4, 2025 Iyyar 6 21st day of Omer...

Only the 4th and 5th dates fall on Hebrew feast days. Furthermore, these two intriguing dates form a unique pair in more ways than one. The Counting of the Omer begins on the 5th date (Firstfruits) and ends on the 4th date (Pentecost). Both dates are FIRSTFRUIT feasts. The two dates are MIRROR images of each other!

Take the date May 25, 2004, i.e. 5-25-2004. Strip away the two separators and two zero digits. What remains is a compact digital string, 52524. The same operation performed on the date Apr 25, 2005 results in another compact digital string 42525 -- the mirror image of 52524!

In other words, each date when viewed from the right becomes the other!

May 25, 2004 (52524) <= Apr 25, 2005 (42525)
Apr 25 , 2005 (42525) <= May 25, 2004 (52524)

The mirroring comports well with the 'bookend' property of both dates, being the first and last days of the Omer. The 'reflective' and 'bookend' properties of both dates confirm the organic nature of Firstfruits and Pentecost, just as the Body of Christ and the Head of the Church are organically one. The Church (Pentecost harvest) is the IMAGE of Christ (Firstfruits harvest)....

Is there a rapture message in these TWO dates? MOST DEFINITELY!...Let us hope for the best. Maranatha! John

(For John's Conclusion, see his interesting article on his 5 Doves web site.)

Meteor Crater formation revisited

10 March, 2005

This Landsat 4 satellite image shows the lighter material thrown out on impact

...It was this smaller swarm or fragment that dug out the hole when it hit the ground at the relatively gentler pace of 11km/s.

"By becoming a disc or pancake, [the original projectile] becomes a blunt body and because of the increased drag, that increases the forces decelerating the fragments, which makes them crumble even faster and the whole thing is a kind of snowball effect."

It still leads to a violent event, however - releasing the equivalent force of 2.5 megatonnes of TNT, or more than 150 Hiroshima atom bombs - but even more energy was dissipated in an atmospheric blast.

The scientists say their calculations are borne out by the recovery of small, un-melted iron fragments around the crater and by the surprisingly small amount of rock melted by the impact.

"It fits with the observation that there are meteorites scattered all around Meteor Crater out to a distance of 10km that were ripped off in the upper atmosphere and blew beyond the borders of the pancake," said Dr Melosh.

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