Pro and Con 1194

Posted 4-5-05

Incoming e-mail

Maybe the reason you keep missing the mark is because you are calculating a generation as 40 something instead of 60?

My reply

You must be confusing a life span with a generation. Webster's Unabridged calls a generation "the period of time (about thirty years) between the birth of one generation and that of another." It also says, "a single stage or degree in the succession of natural descent; as, father, son, and grandson are three generations." How many sons do you know of that were born when their dad was 60 years old?

As it says in the Old Testament, let us reason together. Here is our multiple choice question. According to the Bible, a generation is (a) 40 years, (b) 41.66 years, or (c) 48.33 years.

(a) We can go by the 40 years Israel wandered in the wilderness while one generation died off. Num 32:13 says, "the LORD'S anger was kindled against Israel, and he made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until all the generation, that had done evil in the sight of the LORD, was consumed."

(b) We can choose 41.66 years. In Mt. 26:40, Jesus said, "What, could ye not watch with me one hour?" One hour of a 1,000-year day is 41.66 years.

(c) Mt 1:17 says, "So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations." Abraham was born in BC 2035 (2008 AH). Jesus was born in BC 5. 2030 divided by 42 = 48.33 years.

The Sign of the End of the Age was the Six-Day War of 1967. That is when Israel grew leaves and fulfilled the Fig Tree Parable of Mt. 24:32-34. That was the last year possible for Israel had to be young, i.e., no more than 19 years old. Born in 1948, the modern branch of Israel was 19 in 1967.

In Mt. 24:3 (HNV), we read that as Jesus "sat on the Mount of Olives, the talmidim (disciples) came to him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be? What is THE SIGN OF YOUR COMING, AND OF THE END OF THE AGE?"

Jesus answered the question about the sign of his coming in Mt. 24:32-34. After giving them some background concerning the end of the age, he said, "Now learn a parable of the fig tree (Israel); When his branch (klados, scion broken off for grafting) is yet tender (apalos, young, i.e., no more than 19), and putteth forth leaves (Sinai, Gaza Strip, Golan Heights and West Bank), ye know that summer is nigh (the Six-Day War started June 5; summer began June 21): So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it (the Kingdom of God, Luke 21:31) is near, even at the doors (symbol of the Raptures, Rev. 3:8). Verily I say unto you, This generation (i.e., born in 1967) shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only."

According to the three possibilities for the length of a generation, 2015 seems to be the outside limit for this age to end.
1967 + 40 = 2007
1967 + 42 = 2009
1967 + 48 = 2015

The Seventieth Week of Daniel that we call the Tribulation is basically 7 years. It will be shortened though. Counting it 7 years long, these are our choices for the beginning and end of the Tribulation: We have lived long enough to narrow the chances to four. Those are not bad odds.
2005 + 7 = 2012
2006 + 7 = 2013
2007 + 7 = 2014
2008 + 7 = 2015

We know from Eze. 39:12,13, that the last year of the Tribulation will be a Jewish Leap Year. That is because the Jews bury the dead for 7 months after the attack of Gog's army on the Day of God's Wrath. That takes place on the Feast of Trumpets, Tishri 1.

In De. 11:14, the Lord said, "I will give you the rain of your land (Israel) in HIS (Christ's) DUE SEASON, the first rain (First Advent) and the latter rain" (Second Advent). This is easy to understand, because Hos. 6:3 says, "the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and HE SHALL COME UNTO US AS THE RAIN, AS THE LATTER AND FORMER RAIN UNTO THE EARTH." Joel 2:23 says, "Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month." Whenever we see a month mentioned without a day number, we are to assume that it means the first day of the month, because chodesh means both Moon and month. Israel has two first months. Tishri 1 is the first day of the Civil Calendar. Nisan 1 is the first day of the Regnal and Sacred Calendar.

The former rain comes to Israel on Tishri 1. The latter rain comes on Nisan 1. Therefore, the First Advent was on the first day of the Jewish Civil Year (Tishri 1). The Second Advent will be on the first day of the Jewish Regnal and Sacred Years (Nisan 1).

In normal years, from Tishri 1 to Nisan 1 is 6 months. However, in Leap Years, it is 7 months. Therefore, to fulfill Eze. 39:12,13's seven months, the last year of the shortened Tribulation has to be a Jewish Leap Year with the added month, Adar II, as in the present year, 5765.

That narrows our choices for the last year of the Tribulation to these two Jewish Leap Years:
5771 (2010/2011)
5774 (2013/2014)

If the Tribulation is shortened to 6 years, these are our choices for the beginning and end of the Tribulation:
5765, a Leap Year (2004/2005) + 6 = 5771, a Leap Year (2010/2011)
5768, a Leap Year (2007/2008) + 6 = 5774, a Leap Year(2013/2014)
That seems like the way the Lord works.

If it doesn't happen this year, it looks like we would only have one possibility left, 5768 (2007/2008). Knowing this, wouldn't it make sense to get ready now, just in case this year is when the Lord will come for his Bride?

We should use I John 1:9. It says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Our "old sins" are purged when we accept Christ, but the new ones need to be confessed. II Peter 1:9 speaks of a believer that is "BLIND (i.e., a Laodicean, Rev. 3:17,18), and cannot see agar off (Heaven), and hath forgotten that he was purged from his OLD SINS. Wherefore the rather, brethren (believers), give diligence to make your calling and election sure".

Jesus told Peter that he needed to let Him wash his feet, or he had no part with Him, but if he let Him wash his feet, he would be clean every whit. When we see the Laodiceans in Heaven, they have finally figured it out. Rev 7:14-17 says, "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have WASHED THEIR ROBES, AND MADE THEM WHITE IN THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."

In Mt. 24:36, Jesus said, "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." There is one day that he might have been referring to--Ascension Day. At the time of the Olivet Discourse during Passion Week, no man or angel could have known which day Jesus would ascend. Maybe the Rapture will take place on June 4, 2005. It is the anniversary of Jesus' Ascension Day.

Jesus ascended on May 19, 30 AD. Looking at the of the sky over Jerusalem on that day, Saturn is in Gemini, and the Sun is in Taurus.
http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/uncgi/Yoursky

Looking at the chart for June 4, 2005, we see that Saturn is in Gemini, and the Sun is in Taurus. That could be a good sign. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Ezekiel 38:18-20

I have to agree with the other reader who wrote in about the timing of the Gog/Magog war. I don't see how israel could be living in peace and safety in the second half of the mid trib when the anti christ is in complete control, has desecrated the temple and declared himself to be God and is imposing his complete authority on the world including Israel. In addition with the Messianic Jews being persecuted and fleeing to Petra there will hardly be peace and safety anywhere, let alone in Israel.

Not only that, I don't see specific nations leading an attack against Israel near the end of the trib when the world is united under a single world ruler who will implement the concept of a global community with regional areas under his direct authority. In this scenario no nation or area will be independantly leading an attack against Israel, the anti christ himself, at this stage in history will be directing and exercising all his power and authority as a one world leader over all nations. For Gog/Magog(i.e Russia) to be taking the initiative as a unique national entity only makes sense prior to unification under the one world leadership of the anti christ.

I don't see how your quote from Thessolonians indicates that Israel is dwelling in peace and safety near the end of the tribulation, how can anyone be living in safety second half of the trib except for the Messianic Remnant in Petra??

When the peace treaty is strengthened at the beginning of the Tribulation, the wall will probably come down. The attack by Gog's army is a sneak attack. While they are dwelling safely, he will blow in like a storm cloud.

Correct, to me this means that this is the most likely timing for the attack, beginning of the trib, when the whole world including Israel will be thinking peace and safety, Israel will think she is finally living in peace when Gog will strike like lightning. Current world events show the bear sharpening her claws

Russian nuclear alliance with Iran in building the Bushehr Nuclear Reactor, Iran who is Israel's arch enemy. Recently Israel declared she will not allow Iran to go nuclear, in addition Israel's foreign minister, Sylvan Shalom, recently warned that "within 6 months" Iran would have completed most of its tests and will have all the knowledge to produce an atomic bomb.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2001/9/10/114100.shtml
http://www.newsmax.com/archives/articles/2005/2/23/122805.shtml

If you put the two together as well as how Israel has reacted historically to threats of this nature, the deduction strongly points to an Israeli strike on Iran's nuclear sites within 6 months. With Russia ramping up her strategic alliances with Arab nations and the heavy investment made in Iran, how do you think Russia will react? Seems to me this will happen this year with the Israeli strike being the eventual trigger to the Gog/Magog invasion soon after the peace treaty is confirmed..

Other strategic alliances showing the rousing of the bear is the Syrian alliance with Russian invlolvement in arming the Syrians with advanced weaponry. Once the anti christ has assumed world power there will be no independant Gog/Magog to initiate and lead a strike on Israel, the AC will be the driving force and any attack would be a united attack led by the AC himself.

When the bible says the attack will come at a time of peace and safety all the pointers indicate this will be early in the trib when the AC gains power through peace and diplomacy and promotes a false peace, then when the red horseman rides out conquering by force there will be no more peace and safety...

To me the Gog war will be the first event in a battle for the hearts, minds and souls of man, with God trying to get the worlds attention and the AC trying to look like the world's saviour in a time of turmoil, this is why there is such a demonstration of His power. A major objective of God's judgements during the tribulation is a last desperate attempt from a loving God to redeem those who would otherwise be lost, I think millions will come to Christ when they see the Gog armies smashed in a clear demonstration of God's power

Eze. 38:8,9 says, "After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years (1948 on) thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and THEY SHALL DWELL SAFELY all of them (i.e., when they are dwelling safely). THOU SHALT ASCEND AND COME LIKE A STORM (i.e., blow in swiftly), thou shalt be LIKE A CLOUD to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee."

It is also written that Israel will be unwalled at the time of peace and safety the bible is referring to, so when it talks in Ez 38:8-9 of them dwelling safely, this is not the same PERIOD of safety being referred to at the time of the Gog/Magog attack, the above refers to the time of the return when Jewish immigration to Israel went from a trickle to a vast torrent. Agape

My reply

> > I have to agree with the other reader who wrote in about the timing of the Gog/Magog war. I don't see how israel could be living in peace and safety in the second half of the mid trib when the anti christ is in complete control, has desecrated the temple and declared himself to be God and is imposing his complete authority on the world including Israel.

Don't lose sight of the fact that the unbelieving Jews will accept the False Prophet as their Messiah. It is only Jews that accept Jesus Christ as their Messiah that flee to Petra. Rev. 12:17 calls these "the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, AND HAVE THE TESTIMONY OF JESUS CHRIST." This sounds to me like the Jewish Nazarenes of today.

In John 5:43, Jesus said, "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if ANOTHER shall come in his own name, HIM YE WILL RECEIVE."

"ANOTHER" is the Satan-possessed False Prophet. Rev. 13:11 speaks of him as "ANOTHER BEAST." Dan 7:8 calls him "ANOTHER little horn." It says, "I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them ANOTHER little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man (the False Prophet), and a mouth speaking great things" (because he is Satan-possessed).

> > I don't see specific nations leading an attack against Israel near the end of the trib when the world is united under a single world ruler who will implement the concept of a global community with regional areas under his direct authority.

It isn't individual nations acting alone. It is ALL NATIONS acting under the authority of the One World Government. Eze. 38: 6 and 9 both say, "and many people with thee."

Zec 12:1-3 says, "Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto ALL THE PEOPLE ROUND ABOUT, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem. And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for ALL PEOPLE: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces (on the Day of God's Wrath), though ALL THE PEOPLE OF THE EARTH be gathered together against it."

Zec 14:1-3 says, "Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. For I will gather ALL NATIONS against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations (on the Day of the LORD), as when he fought in THE DAY OF BATTLE."

Jos 10:11 speaks of that that battle on JOSHUA'S LONG DAY, saying, "it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel, and were in the going down to Bethhoron, that the LORD CAST DOWN GREAT STONES FROM HEAVEN (like the asteroids of Rev. 8:8, 10) upon them unto Azekah, and they died: they were more which died with hailstones than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword. Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon. And THE SUN STOOD STILL, AND THE MOON STAYED, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day."

Joshua's Long Day prefigured JESUS' LONG DAY, which I think is the Day of the Lord. The name Jesus is from the Hebrew Joshua. Isa 28:21 says, "the LORD shall rise up as in mount PERAZIM, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do HIS WORK, HIS STRANGE WORK ; and bring to pass HIS ACT, HIS STRANGE ACT." This strange act is the destruction brought on by asteroid impacts on Jesus' Long Day. The asteroid impacts cause the Earth to turn upside down.

Isa 24:1 says, "Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it UPSIDE DOWN, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof." Since it will take some time for the Earth to regain her equilibrium, she will experience Jesus' Long Day.

In the back of my Scofield Bible, it says that "PERAZIM" means breaches and that "PERIZZITES means belonging to a village.

Long ago, a friend that had taught Good News Club (our son David accepted Christ at her house) could not teach anymore because of illness. She gave me her flannelboard things and some old Bibles for the children to use when I took over teaching Good News Club. In one was a very helpful "TABLE OF THE PROPER NAMES." It lists "PERIZZITES, the name of a people, who dwell in villages, or places NOT INCLOSED WITH WALLS."

Not having walls ties in with Eze. 38:11,12. It says, "thou shalt say, I will go up to the land of UNWALLED VILLAGES; I will go to them that are at rest, that dwell safely, all of them dwelling WITHOUT WALLS, and having neither bars nor gates, To take a spoil, and to take a prey; to turn thine hand upon the desolate places that are now inhabited, and upon the people that are gathered out of the nations, which have gotten cattle and goods, that dwell in the midst of the land" (Israel).

Since Israel is building walls now, we know that before the worldwide earthquake of Eze. 38:20, they will tear down those walls. To me, that has to take place during the seven bad years we call the Tribulation, the 70th week of Daniel. That may happen as stipulated by the final strengthening of the peace covenant that takes place as the 70th week of Daniel begins (Dan. 9:27). It is obviously not now.

> > > When the peace treaty is strengthened at the beginning of the Tribulation, the wall will probably come down. The attack by Gog's army is a sneak attack. While they are dwelling safely, he will blow in like a storm cloud.

> > Correct, to me this means that this is the most likely timing for the attack, beginning of the trib, when the whole world including Israel will be thinking peace and safety, Israel will think she is finally living in peace when Gog will strike like lightning. Current world events show the bear sharpening her claws

However, Gog's army will attack on the Day of God's Wrath. Eze. 38:18-20 says, it shall come to pass AT THE SAME TIME when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that MY FURY SHALL COME UP IN MY FACE. FOR IN MY JEALOUSY AND IN THE FIRE OF MY WRATH HAVE I SPOKEN, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of the sea (the asteroid of Rev. 8:8 hits the Mediterranean Sea), and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth (it's the worldwide earthquake), shall shake at my presence (paniym, face, i.e., the Sign of the Son of Man seen in the sky, Rev. 6:14f, Mt. 24:30), and the mountains (asteroids, Rev. 8:8,10) shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground."

> > I think millions will come to Christ when they see the Gog armies smashed in a clear demonstration of God's power

I think that all Tribulation believers will be raptured that day before the wrath of God hits Earth at noon (Zeph. 2:3-5). All Israel will be saved that day (Isa. 66:8). Having missed the last Rapture, that remnant will live on Earth during the Millennium.

> > Eze. 38:8,9 says, "After many days thou shalt be visited: in the latter years (1948 on) thou shalt come into the land that is brought back from the sword, and is gathered out of many people, against the mountains of Israel, which have been always waste: but it is brought forth out of the nations, and THEY SHALL DWELL SAFELY all of them (i.e., when they are dwelling safely). THOU SHALT ASCEND AND COME LIKE A STORM (i.e., blow in swiftly), thou shalt be LIKE A CLOUD to cover the land, thou, and all thy bands, and many people with thee."

> > It is also written that Israel will be unwalled at the time of peace and safety the bible is referring to, so when it talks in Ez 38:8-9 of them dwelling safely, this is not the same PERIOD of safety being referred to at the time of the Gog/Magog attack, the above refers to the time of the return when Jewish immigration to Israel went from a trickle to a vast torrent

Gog's army will attack when he says, "I will go up to the land of unwalled villages." The day Gog will attack the unwalled villages is the Day of God's Wrath. Eze. 38:18 says, "IT SHALL COME TO PASS AT THE SAME TIME WHEN GOG SHALL COME AGAINST THE LAND OF ISRAEL, SAITH THE LORD GOD, THAT MY FURY SHALL COME UP IN MY FACE." In verse 19, the LORD speaks of the fire of his wrath. In verse 20, the asteroids hit Earth. The mountain burning with fire of Rev. 8 hits the Mediterranean Sea, causing "the fishes of the sea" to shake. Both that asteroid impact and the great burning "aster" that destroys Babylon happen on the Feast of Trumpets. The asteroid impacts hit Earth because Gog attacks Israel. Therefore, Gog attacks Israel on the Feast of Trumpets.

Joe 1:14,15 says, "Sanctify ye a fast (the upcoming Day of Atonement on Tishri 10 is the only one of the 7 feast days that is a fast day), call a solemn assembly (on Tishri 1, the Feast of Trumpets), gather the elders and all the inhabitants of the land into the house of the LORD your God (the Pre-Wrath Rapture), and cry unto the LORD, Alas for the day! for the DAY OF THE LORD is at hand, and AS A DESTRUCTION FROM THE ALMIGHTY (Christ, Rev. 1:8) SHALL IT COME."

Joel 2:1-3 says, "Blow ye the TRUMPET in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for THE DAY OF THE LORD COMETH, for it is nigh at hand; A DAY OF DARKNESS and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong (GOG'S ARMY); there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them."

Joel 2:16-18,20 speaks of that Day of the Lord. It says, "Blow the TRUMPET in Zion, sanctify a fast (the upcoming Day of Atonement), call a solemn assembly: Gather the people (Rapture 2), sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders (taken to Heaven in Rapture 1), gather the children (at Rapture 2), and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom (Christ, it's the day of the Marriage of the Lamb) go forth of his chamber, and the bride (Bride of Christ) out of her closet. Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and let them say, Spare thy people, O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God? Then ( will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people....I WILL REMOVE FAR OFF FROM YOU THE NORTHERN ARMY, and will drive him into a land barren and desolate, with his face toward the east sea (the Dead Sea), and his hinder part toward the utmost sea (the Mediterranean, the Great Sea), and his stink shall come up, and his ill savour shall come up, because he hath done great things."

Joel 2:2 mentions "a day of clouds and of thick darkness." Verse 10 bookends the passage in between when it mentions "the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining." What goes between is the release of the demons from the fiery furnace in Rev. 9.

Rev. 9:2-7 says, "And he opened the bottomless pit (molten core of the Earth); and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit. And there CAME OUT OF THE SMOKE locusts (i.e., demons) upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power. And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads. And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man. And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them. And the shapes of the locusts (i.e., demons) were like (symbolic language) unto HORSES prepared unto battle and on their heads were as it were (symbolic language) crowns like gold, and their faces were as (symbolic language) the faces of men" (they are fallen angels).

Joel 2:4,8,9 says, "The appearance of them is as (symbolic language) the appearance of HORSES; and as (symbolic language) horseMEN (i.e., demons), so shall they run....Neither shall one thrust another; they shall walk every one in his path: and WHEN THEY FALL UPON THE SWORD, THEY SHALL NOT BE WOUNDED (they are Satan's fallen angels). They shall run to and fro in the city; they shall run upon the wall, they shall climb up upon the houses; they shall enter in at the windows like a thief."

Rev. 9:17-19 says, "And thus I saw the HORSES in the vision, AND THEM THAT SAT ON THEM, having breastplates of fire, and of jacinth, and brimstone: and the heads of the horses were as (symbolic language) the heads of lions; and out of their mouths issued fire and smoke and brimstone. By these three was the third part of men killed, by the fire, and by the smoke, and by the brimstone, which issued out of their mouths. For their power is in their mouth, and in their tails: for THEIR TAILS WERE LIKE UNTO SERPENTS (i.e., like demons), and had heads, and with them they do hurt."

Isa 9:15 says, "The ancient and honourable (the Tribulation Pope, the beast of Rev. 13:3-10), he is the head (the 6th head of the great red dragon); and the prophet that teacheth lies (the False Prophet, the beast of Rev. 13:11-18, the 7th head of the great red dragon), he is THE TAIL" (of the great red dragon, because Satan enters into him).


   Pro and Con 1195   Or Return   Home


Contact me for more information at: mjagee1@earthlink.net


Send me e-mail now


8641 Sugar Gum Rd, Riverside, CA 92508, USA; (951) 653-4110


© 1996-2005, Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 4-5-05