Pro and Con 1197

Posted 4-18-05

THANK YOU LORD FOR HEALING BRANDI'S FRIEND MISTY. IN JESUS' NAME, AMEN. AND THANK YOU ALL FOR PRAYING FOR HER. In spite of DYING FOUR TIMES and having convulsions, she is now out of the hospital, and came to our house briefly this afternoon. She said to thank everyone for their prayers. She knows she is lucky to be alive.

My reply to Dianne Talsma's email on 5 Doves site

(Dianne Talsma (18 Apr 2005) "re" Noah, 47 Days, & Spring")

Noah entered Ark Cheshvan 17, not Cheshvan 10.

> > The flooding itself began on the 17th of that month ... seven days after Noah had entered the ark

I once thought that too, but taking a closer look, I found out that the rain came the same day Noah entered the Ark, and "the Lord shut him in" (Gen. 7:16). He was told on Cheshvan 10 that in "YET SEVEN DAYS (i.e., on Cheshvan 17), and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights" (Gen. 7:4).

Verses 10-13 say, "it came to pass AFTER SEVEN DAYS (Cheshvan 10-17), that the waters of the flood were upon the earth. In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, THE SAME DAY (Cheshvan 17) were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights. IN THE SELFSAME DAY (Cheshvan 17) ENTERED NOAH, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark."


The Rapture is as the days of Noah (Mt. 24:37). If we extrapolate the Sacred Year back to Noah's day, "the second month, the seventeenth day of the month" would be Iyar 17. The Israelites used inclusive reckoning when counting a block of time. Using inclusive reckoning, Iyar 17 is TEN DAYS UP TO AND INCLUDING ASCENSION DAY, Iyar 26, 5765 (June 4, 2005). Hmmm, food for thought. Rev. 2:10 mentions a 10-day period for the church under persecution. It sounds like the Rapture might come at the end of that 10-day period. Agape

From Five Doves site: "THE SIGN OF JONAH"

Arlene (14 Apr 2005)

The last two days I have been doing a study (I just can't quit !) on Jonah. Remember, Jonah was a type of Christ. He volunteed to be thrown overboard the ship to save the crew and ship, like our Lord volunteered His crucifixion to save us. Johah was "resurrected" from the day three days later, just like Christ. Jesus said that the evil generation would only get the sign of Jonah, referring to Himself as anti-type. Now get this, Jonah finally began to prophecy against Nineveh, and said "YET FORTY DAYS, AND BUT YOU REPENT, GOD WILL DESTROY ALL OF YOU". That's what got me going. This forty days directly followed Jonah's "resurrection", just like Christ was resurrected on Firstfruits, and 40 DAYS LATER, ascended, a type of the rapture. Nineveh repented, and so were saved. In the book of Revelation, the seven churches are told to 'REPENT, REPENT, REPENT",,,,just as if Jonah was preaching to them, although Christ sent these messages.
The next thing you see in the book of Revelation is the "come up hither" rapture, right after the churches are told to repent.....So, maybe, just maybe, our Lord will come on Ascension Day May 5, 2005, after His "Jonah" preaching to the churches for 40 days after His resurrection.....SURE HOPE SO! (Unless I haven't got my repentence act together quite that case, I hope He waits awhile...) YSIC Arlene

My reply, Re: Sign of Jonah, Sign of Noah, 40 days

Thanks, Arlene, for reminding me about the Sign of Jonah and the 40 days. That makes Ascension Day, June 4, 2005, look like a good bet. I can't see throwing the very accurate Hebrew Calender off by a whole month. I'm going by the Official Hebrew Calendar, with its Adar II.

The Rapture is as the days of Noah too, and it rained 40 days and 40 nights after the Lord shut Noah in the Ark. The Ark floated upward. Gen. 7:17 says, "And the flood was FORTY DAYS upon the earth; and the waters increased, and BARE UP THE ARK, AND IT WAS LIFT UP ABOVE THE EARTH." Ascension Day is looking better all the time. The Ark lifted Noah up after 40 days.

I think 1998 was the 6000th year since Adam was cast out of Eden. Believers may be tested seven years, then the whole world tested for another seven years (Rev. 3:10). Look what Gen. 7:4 says, "For yet SEVEN DAYS (think 7 years, 1998 - 2005), and I will cause it to rain (in 2005?) upon the earth FORTY DAYS AND FORTY NIGHTS".

I didn't count the days, but this year, we had heavy rain. The damage was severe, with houses sliding down hillsides. I remember watching TV when the amount of rainfall was just about equal the record. It may have gone over the record, for that wasn't the end of the rain. Why did we have this deluge in 2005? It followed many, maybe 11, years of drought. We were asked to take short showers and not to hose off our driveways, etc., to conserve water.

Jesus will come as the rain, and we had plenty in 2005. Hosea 6:3 says, "the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and HE SHALL COME UNTO US AS THE RAIN, as the latter and former rain unto the earth." It looks like he came as the former rain at the First Advent, may come unto us as the rain in Noah's day at the Rapture, and will come as the latter rain at the Second Advent.

Note: Psa. 72:6 says, "He shall come down like (symbolic language) rain upon the mown grass, as (symbolic language) showers that water the earth."


We had a strange thing happen here in Southern California in 1969, two years after the Six-Day-War Sign of the End of the Age. It was so bad, it was listed under Disasters in the World Almanac. It rained for 40 days and 40 nights, Jan. 18 to Feb. 26. I received my copy of "The Savage Storm," a 16-page tab section printed by the Santa Ana Register to show pictures of the terrible damage, on March 20. That was Nisan 1, the first day of the Jewish Regnal and Sacred Calendar, the day I think Christ will return in 2011. That year, it will fall on April 5.

In 1969, there were two terrible storms, and persistant light rain between them. Ed had to get out in the downpour to dig a ditch around our garage in La Mirada to keep the water from flowing through our garage like a river. There was one night he couldn't get the car home because of flooded streets between Norwalk and La Mirada.

California was declared a disaster area. Citizens hope the record rainfall is never repeated. It broke the record that had stood for 85 years. "Old timers...said they'd never seen a storm like that one", and that was just the first one. The second was "a storm of such violence and destruction as to practically wipe out Silverado, kill five of its residents (when the mountain slid down and filled the fire station) and inflict more misery, damage and heartbreak on Orange County than at any other time in its history."

Page 15 just showed the Sun bursting through the clouds. It said, "Wednesday February 26th. PEACE RETURNS TO THE VALLEY".

Will we be in heavenly peace at the end of the 40 days between the Feast of Firstfruits and Ascension Day? I sure hope so. Agape

"Hailstones "as large as eggs" kill 18"

MJ Martin (13 Apr 2005)

A hailstorm in Sichuan Province and Chongqing Municipality has left 18 dead, one person missing and 25 injured, the People's Daily reported yesterday. The biggest hailstorm, which fell in Chongqing, reached 13 centimetres in diameter, according to local reports....

Qianjiang District in Chongqing was the worst affected, with hailstones destroying more than 27,800 houses and local crops. In this district alone, there was damage worth 35 million yuan (US$4.2 million).

My comment

The damage was so extraordinarily severe that, like the huge tsunami, it became a candidate for a sign of the approaching Tribulation.

Some say Jesus kept the Essene Passover

Jesus would not have kept the Essene Passover, because they always kept it on Wednesday. The Last Supper was after 6 PM Wednesday, when the Jewish Thursday, Nisan 13, began. The Passover was Nisan 14, Friday.

Messianic Exegesis

--"His name is Yinnon, for it is said:
--'He shall endure forever,
before there was a sun his name is YINNON' (Ps 72:17)!"

Incoming e-mail, Re: Ascension Day

Thank you for your reply. I think that a greater number of Christians are, finally, starting to "look up." Your studies help so much.

The 10 days in Revelation 2:10 have puzzled me for a long time. Just the way it is worded, makes me pass attention. And the "10 days", I associate with the time between Ascension Day and Pentecost, and 10 represents a time of testing.

I do not think that the end of the 10 days would be the end of tribulation. I have wondered if could refer to believing Jews, detected by the "quickly organized" officials of the one world government. Could they be thrown into prison as "terrorists?" But, God knows their hearts and love for Jesus.

9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan. 10Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. 11He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death. Revelation 2:9-11 (KJV)

They will be given the crown of life. So, they must be believers. Maybe the Holy Spirit's power on Pentecost causes some of them to be released from prison and protected. But, it also indicates that some could be martyred for their faith. Sounds like post rapture affairs. But they are told to not be afraid, the second death shall not hurt them. They must go straight heaven.

I know that their are already many believing Jewish brothers and sisters, here, and in Israel. I praise the Lord Jesus for them. This scripture just makes wonder if it focuses on Israel at that time. Well, I guess everything will focus on Israel, immediately, after the Rapture of the Church. The world already watches Israel closely.

Thank you, again. That 10 days scripture has puzzled me for awhile. It sounds so Tribulation connected.

My reply

I think the ten days have to do with the Setting of the drama called "The Revelation of Jesus Christ." Christ will be revealed to us at the Rapture. When The Revelation of Jesus Christ was written, it was as if the Rapture was at hand. It is "at hand" in both the first and last chapters. Rev. 1:3 says, "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is AT HAND." Rev. 22:10 says, "And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is AT HAND." Jesus signs off with, "Surely I come quickly. Amen" (so be it).

Jesus comes quickly at the Rapture, not at the Second Advent, when every eye will see him. Rev. 3:11-13 says, "Behold, I come QUICKLY: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."

In Rev. 1:19, John was told to "Write the things which thou hast seen (things before the Rapture), and the things which are (at the time of the Rapture), and the things which shall be hereafter" (after the Rapture).

It looks like Jesus is viewing the status of the seven church groups as if the Rapture were just 10 days away. It is almost a last-minute inspection of their status. In Rev. 2:21, he said, "I GAVE HER SPACE TO REPENT." That is past tense. Now something new will happen, because Thyatira did not repent. In verses 22 and 23, he said, "Behold, I WILL (i.e., in ten days?) cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great TRIBULATION, except they repent of their deeds. And I will (in the Tribulation) kill her children with death".

In the view given us in Rev. 17, the Rapture has just taken place. Verse 14 says, "he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that ARE WITH HIM are called, and chosen, and faithful."

The ten kings "have received no kingdom as yet", but the 6th king is already in office. Verse 10 says, "there are seven kings: five are fallen, and ONE IS, and the other is not yet come."

I think the one that is already in office at the time of the Rapture is the Pope. There is a possibility that the new Pope will be chosen ten days before the Rapture. If his election falls ten days before Ascension Day, I'll expect the Rapture on Ascension Day. If he is elected on Ascension Day, I'll expect the Rapture on Pentecost.

Those ten days could be our advance warning. They would be similar to Noah's seven-day warning. Keep watching.

> > I do not think that the end of the 10 days would be the end of tribulation.

It would be for the prisoners if the Rapture took them away.

> > They must go straight heaven.

They would if it was the time of the Rapture. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: 10 days

If the rapture happens on Ascension, maybe the 10 days of tribulation are till Pentacost. The Jews realize that their most fervent defenders are all now gone. Then on Pentacost the holy Spirit falls on the 144,000 called out ones and they begin their ministry along with the two witnesses. Always looking up

My reply

The scramble to reorganize after the Rapture could easily take 10 days, and the descent of the Holy Spirit to energize believers could come again on Pentecost. Watching is important now.

Incoming e-mail, Re: a One World Government

It's hard to imagine a "one world government" - how could that happen with the US such an independent country? Like this: after the rapture, our government will be in chaos due to a number of our elected national leaders being raptured; the rest of world governments will also be in chaos due to mass disappearances. It makes sense that would be the time when governments would band together to get through the terrible times generated when millions of people, including those in government, had vanished. In fact, the remnants of world governments would have to come together to get international markets, international financial institutions,etc. up and running again. If the US president, Vice-President. the speaker of the house who would be next in line, etc. are gone, there is no leader. Someone would have to pull world governments together to get the world working again. That someone could be the antichrist.

The point is, I don't think we can't use the way the world is today to determine how a one world government could come about. I believe there will have to be an event that will make a one world government necessary and the rapture would do it.

My reply

It seems possible. I'd like to believe that the world would experience 10 days of panic, but Isa. 57:1-3 says, "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and merciful men are taken away, none considering that the righteous is taken away from the evil to come. He shall enter into peace: they shall rest in their beds, each one walking in his uprightness. But draw near hither, ye sons of the sorceress, the seed of the adulterer and the whore."

Psa. 40:1-3 is at the time of the Rapture. It says, "I waited patiently for the LORD; and he inclined unto me, and heard my cry. He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings. And he hath put a new song (Rev. 5:9) in my mouth, even praise unto our God: many shall see it, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD." It sounds like those believers that are left behind, but observe the Rapture taking place, will be scared into getting right with the Lord.

Those that don't know what the Bible says will probably just be scrambling to get things organized and working again. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: 2012

From Pro/Con 1194: > > > "The Seventieth Week of Daniel that we call the Tribulation is basically 7 years. It will be shortened though. Counting it 7 years long, these are our choices for the beginning and end of the Tribulation: We have lived long enough to narrow the chances to four. Those are not bad odds.
2005 + 7 = 2012
2006 + 7 = 2013
2007 + 7 = 2014
2008 + 7 = 2015"

I saw a documentary a few days ago that said the Myan Indians taught the world would end in December, 2012. There was no explanation as to how they came to that conclusion.

My reply

Someone else wrote me about the Mayan Calendar ending in 2012. It made me wonder if Satan knew all along how much time he had been given. The Mayan Calendar could be Satan's calendar to keep track of how much time he had left. Sometimes, Satan's cohorts betray their hand by demonstrating that they have certain knowledge that the ordinary man wouldn't know. This could be an example of that type of knowledge. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Rapture this year?

Just read your article on the possible June 14 th Rapture. Can i ask you how do you relate your findings to the generational calculations of J Zachary. He calculates a biblical generation as 14000 days and that 14000 days from June "times of gentiles etc" 1967 ends exatly to the day on Oct 5th 2005 feast of trumpets.

Obviously if the start date for this gemeration shall not pass away before all this comes to pass is the June 67 one, then a rapture on 14 June puts it within that time frame. Sincerely

My reply

I don't remember reading about what J Zachary said, but I don't see how the Sign of the End of the Age could take place after Israel turned 20. She had to be counted as young. That means 19 or less.

We are given information to figure how long a generation is in Mt. 1:17. Dividing 2030 years by 42 = 48.33. Adding 48 to 1967 gives us 2015. Then we need to figure out which years are possible, because the last year has to be a Jewish Leap Year. We find that out in Eze. 39:12,13. After the Day of God's Wrath on Tishri 1, the Feast of Trumpets, the Jews bury the dead 7 months to cleanse the land for Christ to return on the following Nisan 1, the first day of the Jewish Regnal and Sacred Year. That means that the 13th month is added in that year. Otherwise, there would be 6 months between Tishri 1 and Nisan 1. The Jewish Years 5771 (2010/2011), 5774 (2013/2014) and 5776 (2015/16) are Leap Years.

The Rapture might happen on Ascension Day, June 4, 2005, or Pentecost, June 14. Watch to see what day the new Pope is selected. I have a feeling that the Rapture could follow in ten days. See Rev. 2:10. Agape

My thoughts

Jesus came to the Temple 40 days after his birth. Will he come to the Church, the Temple of the Holy Spirit, after 40 days, i.e., on Ascension Day?

The number 40 keeps cropping up. It must be important. Both Moses and Elijah were at Mt. Sinai 40 days.

Ex 24:18 says that "Moses went into the midst of the cloud, and gat him up into the mount: and Moses was in the mount forty days and forty nights."

1Ki 19:8 says that Elijah "arose, and did eat and drink, and went in the strength of that meat forty days and forty nights unto Horeb (meaning desert, i.e., Mt. Sinai was located in the desert that bordered the Mediterranean Sea) the mount of God."

Forty days after Jesus was born, he came to the Temple at Jerusalem.

Luke 2:22 says, "when the days of her (Mary's) purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished (40 days), they brought him to Jerusalem to present him to the Lord."

Lev 12:2-4 says, "If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean SEVEN DAYS; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean. And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised. And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying THREE AND THIRTY DAYS (7 + 33 = 40); she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled."

Will we be taken to New Jerusalem after 40 days? Ascension Day is looking better all the time. Jesus went up into the clouds on the 40th day after his Resurrection. Acts 1:3 and 9 say, "to whom (the apostles) also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being SEEN OF THEM FORTY DAYS...And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, HE WAS TAKEN UP; and a cloud received him out of their sight." Verse 11 says that "this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, SHALL SO COME IN LIKE MANNER as ye have seen him go into heaven." Come, Lord Jesus.

Incoming e-mail, Re: Two raptures?

I have recently came across your website and I am a little confused on the subject of the rapture. If I a reading correctly, there is a belief that there will be two raptures. One prior to the trip and one sometime during? Is this correct? I am an avid reader on prophesy and have read, as they say A-Z. I believe dogmatically that the Church, the true body of believers will be raptured before the tribulation. I follow Jon Courson, Chuck Smith and the like in their understanding of prophesy. I have never heard this theory before. Can you shed some light in this theory. Appreciate it. Thanks

My reply

I can clearly see two Raptures, the First Trump and the Last Trump. The Old Testament type is in Num 10:1-4. It says, "the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Make thee TWO TRUMPETS of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest USE THEM FOR THE CALLING OF THE ASSEMBLY, AND FOR THE JOURNEYING OF THE CAMPS. And when they shall blow with THEM (i.e., BOTH), ALL THE ASSEMBLY SHALL ASSEMBLE THEMSELVES TO THEE at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And if they blow but with ONE TRUMPET, then the princes (the elders), which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee."

The First Trump calls the Bride of Christ, the wise virgins wearing white robes, up to Heaven. We read about that in I Thess. 4:16-18. It says, "the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with THE TRUMP OF GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words." These saints are seen in heaven in Rev. 5:9.

When the first trump sounds, the 24 elders (12 patriarchs and 12 apostles, including John) are immediately seen in Heaven crowned and seated on their thrones. Rev. 4:1-4 says, "behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a TRUMPET talking with me; which said, COME UP HITHER, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. And immediately I was (became) in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper (first stone in the breastplate) and a sardine stone (last stone in the breastplate, i.e., He is the first and the last, Christ, Isa. 44:6, Rev. 22:13,16): and there was a rainbow round about the throne (the rings around Saturn), in sight like unto an emerald (Judah's stone; Christ is the Lion of the tribe of Judah). And round about the throne were four and twenty seats (thrones): and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders (all Israelites) sitting, CLOTHED IN WHITE RAIMENT; and they had on their heads crowns of gold."

The elders are our Representatives in the government of God. The saints wearing white are there in Heaven at the same time, having just been caught up to Heaven in the Pre-Trib Rapture. Rev. 5:8-10 says, "saints. And they sung a NEW SONG, saying, Thou (Christ, the Lamb of God) art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood OUT OF EVERY KINDRED, AND TONGUE, AND PEOPLE, AND NATION; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on (epi, over) the earth."

The Last Trump calls up the l44,000 Israelites, the foolish virgins, and a great multitude that no man can number. Rev. 7:14 says, "These are they which came out of GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." I Cor. 15:51-53 tells us about these. It says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and WE (including Paul) SHALL BE CHANGED. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

All saints will be called to the GENERAL ASSEMBLY in Heaven on Christ's Coronation Day. The Marriage of the Lamb and the Judgment Seat of Christ are also on this day. Heb 12:22,23 says, "ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the HEAVENLY JERUSALEM, and to an innumerable company of angels, TO THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY AND CHURCH OF THE FIRSTBORN, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men MADE PERFECT" (i.e., "changed," made immortal).

On Coronation Day, all saints are called to the General Assembly. BOTH trumpets sound. The FIRST TRUMP of that day calls those that are already in Heaven to the General Assembly. Mt. 24:31 tells us about this. It says, "he shall send his angels with a great sound of A TRUMPET, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, FROM ONE END OF HEAVEN TO THE OTHER."

Then the LAST TRUMP sounds to call up the Tribulation saints. When BOTH trumps sound Mark 13:27 says, "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH to the uttermost part of HEAVEN." Those Tribulation saints are caught up from the Earth in the Pre-Wrath Rapture. It takes place on the Day of God's Wrath, but before the asteroids of Rev. 8:8 and 10 hit Earth at noon (Zeph. 2:3-5). True to the Old Testament type, BOTH trumps sound on the day of the General Assembly in Heaven.

Zeph. 2:3-5 says, "Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be HID (i.e., raptured) in the day of the LORD'S anger. For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the NOON day, and Ekron shall be rooted up. Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast." Agape

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