Pro and Con 1198

Posted 4-21-05

Benedict was the OLDEST PONTIFF elected in 275 years

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050421/D89JFOI00.html

My comments

Isa 9:15 says, "The ANCIENT and honourable, he is the head (6th head of the great red dragon); and the prophet that teacheth lies (the 7th head), he is the tail" (i.e., Satan-possessed). This Pope is not only old, he has "frail health." Could he be the one that will only be able to carry on for 3.5 years?
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New pope's brother very concerned about his election, 4-20-05
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/050420/323/fgp5h.html

REGENSBURG, Germany (AFP) - The brother of Pope Benedict XVI Georg Ratzinger, 81, said he was "very concerned" and "shocked" upon hearing that Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger had been elected as head of the Roman Catholic Church because of HIS AGE AND FRAIL HEALTH."
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Pope reaches out to OTHER RELIGIONS, 4-20-05
http://tvnz.co.nz/view/news_world_story_skin/512340%3fformat=html

Pope Benedict XVI moved swiftly to allay fears that his papacy would be rigidly inward-looking, saying he wanted DIALOGUE WITH OTHER FAITHS and cultures....

"I welcome everybody with simplicity and love to assure them that the Church wants to continue in open and sincere dialogue with them, IN SEARCH OF TRUE GOOD OF MAN AND SOCIETY," he said at the Mass with the red-hatted cardinals....

"We consider the election of Ratzinger as A CATASTROPHE," said Bernd Goehring of German ecumenical group Kirche von Unten. "It is very disappointing, even if it was predictable. We can expect no reform from him in the coming years."

Incoming email, Re: The Slipping Zodiac

...First I'd like to say that I thought Marilyn had an excellent brief summary of the Zodiac as used from Adam on down through the Hebrews. Many people are surprised that the zodiac is referred to in the Bible. I'd like to add that Job makes reference to several constellations by name.

Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion? Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons? Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth? Job 38:31-33

And Isaiah mentions them in passing: For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. Isaiah 13:10

...Marilyn also touches on the same subject as Diane's question:

> > I'm not using the Tropical Zodiac. As I understand it, the Tropical is the one that is off by one sign, or one month, that is used by astrologers.

Based on the research I've done on this, the Tropical Zodiac is what is now used as the standard coordinate system for modern Astronomy. For history, it appears that the Babylonians used sidereal astrology/astronomy though in the 5th century BC but by the 2nd century BC the Greeks were using the Tropical Zodiac.

The Tropical Zodiac always starts with Aries the Lamb, the first sign of the Zodiac, assigned to what was the beginning of the first month in many ancient cultures, the Spring Equinox, now our March 20th/21st. The Sidereal Zodiac does not always start on the same day each year as its start is constantly slipping away from the Spring Equinox. The period of revolution which is known as the precession of the equinoxes, in other words how long it takes the Sidereal Zodiac to slip from the Spring Equinox all the way around the solar year through the Fall Equinox and then back to the Spring Equinox is probably around 24000 years.... http://www.newfrontiersinscience.com/Papers/v02n01a/v02n01a.pdf

...In regard to the Tropical Zodaic being the one that is used by astrologers, it all depends on the astrologer. From searching the internet I found that it is true that some Astologers do use the Tropical Zodiac. The rest of the Astrologers though use instead the Sidereal Zodiac....

There are references on the internet that state that when the Eastern Astrologers first started making inroads in the West in the 1930's they marketed Sidereal based Astrology by claiming that the Tropical Zodiac was off a sign. However it could just as easily, probably even more so be argued that the Sidereal instead off.

While the Zodiac is a circle that surrounds the earth with constellations which one could say doesn't have a beginning or an end, the beginning constellation for the Tropical Zodiac anyway is Aries and it is tied to what was the beginning month at the Spring Equinox, which for the lunar/solar calendar of the Hebrews is associated with Nisan....the first son, Reuben held the first ensign Aries, the Ram, which corresponded to the first month, Nisan. Passover, the exact middle of the first month, was in the exact middle of the sign of Aries the Lamb of God which took away the sins of the earth. The Israelites killed the lamb each year on the eve before Passover. This is also when Jesus Christ, the lamb of God, was crucified....

I have not found much application for either the Sidereal zodiac or the Sidereal year. Shalom

P.S. to Marilyn's followup question:

> > It is said that one of the charges which was considered a very serious charge brought up against Jesus was that he ate of the Paschal lamb the day before Passover instead of Passover. It is said that in his defense the Galilean's were able to produce written documentation that they were allowed to eat of the Paschal lamb the day before. It is conjectured that this written documentation were the solar calendar tables of the Essenes.
> > That's interesting. I'd like to know more about that. I hope you can steer me in the right direction.

Reply: I couldn't find my original source but I googled "Essenes day before Passover" and found: http://www.bibarch.com/Articles/OpeningEvents.htm
There are probably many other sources as well.

My reply

I think astronomers only go by when the Sun actually enters a constellation. They also include Ophiuchus as a 13th constellation.

Ophiuchus is above Scorpio, and depicts Jesus running along the ecliptic as he wrestles with Satan (Serpens) to keep him from obtaining the crown (Corona).

Actually, Jesus is in Heaven, Saturn, which travels along the ecliptic as the Angelic Conflict progresses.

I went to the site you listed, "Opening Events"
(http://www.bibarch.com/Articles/OpeningEvents.htm). I can't see how the author can reconcile his statements in his own head. Below are two taken from his chart of Passion Week. He places the Crucifixion on WEDNESDAY, NISAN 15, PASSOVER. Lev. 23:5 disagrees. It says, "In the FOURTEENTH day of the first month at even is the LORD'S PASSOVER".

Jewish days start at 6 PM on the preceding day, so at 6 PM on Nisan 13/14, the true Passover began. By that time, the body of Jesus was in the rock tomb, and the Passover lambs were in their stone ovens. The fires were lit under their ovens, and Jesus literally descended into the hot heart of the Earth. Eph 4:8,9 says, "Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?"

> > On Thursday (Nisan 9 on the author's chart) he said, "6 Days Before Passover Jesus came to Bethany (John 12:1)" Only Saturday will work. The next day after Jesus arrived in Bethany had to be Palm Sunday. John 12:12,13 says, "ON THE NEXT DAY much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem, Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord." The 6 days were (1) Saturday, (2) Sunday, (3) Monday, (4) Tuesday, (5) Wednesday and (6) Thursday. Friday was Nisan 14, Passover.

> > "ON SUNDAY (Nisan 12 on the chart) Jesus said it was two days before Passover (Matthew 26:1-2, cf Mark 14:1, Luke 22:1"

Jesus didn't say this on Sunday. Mt. 26:2 says, "after two days is the feast of the passover." A lot happened between Mt. 21:9 (Palm Sunday) and Mt. 26:2. The two days before Passover (Friday) were (1) Wednesday and (2) Thursday.

On Palm Sunday, Jesus overthrew the tables of the moneychangers at the Temple. ---That night, which was already Monday for the Jews, "he left them, and went out of the city into Bethany (meaning house of dates), and he lodged there" (Mt. 21:17).

Here is the way I see it:
Saturday, Nisan 8, Jesus arrived at Bethany. They served him the meal they had prepared before 6 PM.
---Nisan 8 was 6 days before Passover, Nisan 14.
Sunday, Nisan 9, was Palm Sunday. Jesus presented himself as king.
---Nisan 9 was 5 days before Passover, Nisan 14.
Monday, Nisan 10, Jesus cursed the fig tree and purified the temple.
---Nisan 10 was 4 days before Passover, Nisan 14.
Tuesday, Nisan 11, the fig tree was found dried up, and Jesus gave the Olivet Discourse.
---Nisan 11 was 3 days before Passover, Nisan 14.
Wednesday, Nisan 12, Jesus was anointed for his burial.
---Nisan 12 was 2 days before Passover, Nisan 14.
Thursday, Nisan 13, the preparation of the Passover, Jesus was crucified.
---Nisan 13 was 1 day before the Passover, Nisan 14.
---Thursday was Jesus' 1st day in the heart of the Earth (Mt. 12:40).
Friday, Nisan 14, was the Feast of the Passover, the high day.
---Friday was Jesus' 1st night and 2nd day in the heart of the Earth.
Saturday, Nisan 15, was the Feast of Unleavened Bread.
---Saturday was Jesus' 2nd night and 3rd day in the heart of the Earth.
Sunday, Nisan 16, Jesus was resurrected on the Feast of Firstfruits.
---Sunday night was Jesus' 3rd night in the heart of the Earth.
Luke 24:21 says, "But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, TODAY IS THE THIRD DAY SINCE these things were done. "The Crucifixion was on Thursday. The 3 days "since" were (1) Friday, (2) Saturday and (3) Sunday.

You know how you learn something unexpected when on the way to looking up something else? I just thought of another connection. Christ is the Lamb of God that has two horns, two comings to power. Eph 4:8,9 says, "When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first INTO THE LOWER PARTS OF THE EARTH?"

Satan also has two comings to power, in Judas Iscariot and the False Prophet, the two sons of perdition. Before entering into the False Prophet, Satan literally comes up out of the Earth. I thought Rev. 13:11 meant eretz Israel, the land of Israel. That is true too, but that verse tells us more than I realized. Evidently, Satan literally comes up out of the Earth in Israel at the time that he enters into the False Prophet.

Rev. 13:11 says, "I beheld another beast (Satan) COMING UP OUT OF THE EARTH; and he had two horns (two comings to power) like a lamb (Jesus), and he (the False Prophet Satan entered into) spake as a dragon" (Satan).

In Rev. 12:9, when Satan is cast out of Heaven Mid-Trib, he is "CAST OUT INTO THE EARTH. " When he comes up again, he goes into the False Prophet. Rev. 17:8 says, "The beast that thou sawest was (in man, Judas Iscariot, the 1st son of perdition, John 17:12), and is not (in man at the time of the Rapture); and SHALL ASCEND OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT, AND GO INTO PERDITION (the False Prophet, the 2nd son of perdition, 2 Thess. 2:3): and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world".

Rev 17:11 says, "And the beast (the scarlet colored beast, i.e., Satan) that was (in man, Judas Iscariot), and is not (in man at the time of the Rapture), even he is the eighth (the tail of the great red dragon), and is of the seven, and GOETH INTO PERDITION."...
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The Essenes: http://www.bibarch.com/The%20First%20Christians/Essenes.htm

The major feasts, e.g., THE FEAST OF UNLEAVENED BREAD, the Feast of Trumpets, the Feast of Tabernacles, and the Great Day (the eighth day of the Feast of Tabernacles), ALWAYS BEGAN ON WEDNESDAY, actually at evening the day before as the Jews began days at evening not midnight (Simon 1967:73).
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The Timing of Pesakh
According to the Nazarene (Netzarim) System"
http://www.nazarene.net/Calander/passovr.html

...since the new covenant will not be inaugurated until the Kingdom then it follows why Yahushua did not at that time partake of the cup of the new covenant (see New Covenant - Not For Today by James Trimm)....

The clear circumstantial evidence, as will be shown, as well as the direct statements of the N.T. itself (as will be cited), show explicitly that Yahushua and his talmidim partook of an ACTUAL true Passover Seder on the night prior to Yahushua’s crucifixion....
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A Thursday Crucifixion Date?
Carl Johnson, Pastor, A Christ Walk Church; Physicist, University of Chicago
http://mb-soft.com/public/crucif.html

> > Jesus was therefore almost certainly actually Crucified on Hebrew Thursday, and then placed in the tomb after sunset, in other words, on Hebrew Friday....

> > Jesus died late in the afternoon (3 pm). After this occurred, there was necessarily some delay before anyone knew. Then, once Joseph of Arimathaea realized this fact, he had to get official permission to remove the Body from the Cross. After this, he had to buy or otherwise obtain the linens and oils necessary for proper burial. Then, he had to get the Body down and transport It a substantial distance to the Sepulchre. Once there, the Body had to be prepared, wrapped, and placed in the tomb, all with respectful methods. This means definitely not rushing all of these things. This sequence of events certainly took more than the three hours that were available before sunset (6 pm).

> > That means that the procedures would have to have continued until after sunset. Actually, John 19:39 tells us that Nicodemus came to Jesus by night, bringing the spices for the burial preparation.

When I wrote Exit: 2007, I also thought that Jesus was crucified on Thursday and buried after Friday began. Now I think he was both crucified and buried on Thursday, before the Passover began at 6 PM.

De. 21:23 says, "His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt IN ANY WISE BURY HIM THAT DAY". This explains the haste to bury Jesus that same day. Mt. 27:59 says, "when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, And laid it in his own new tomb".

After Jesus died around 3 PM, Mark 15:42 says, "now when THE EVEN WAS COME, because IT WAS THE PREPARATION, that is, THE DAY BEFORE THE SABBATH." It is easy to take "THE EVEN" as 6 PM, but it can also mean any time after 3 PM. They called that time between 3 and 6 "between the evenings." Mark 15:42 means that 3 PM had passed, but it still was the day of preparation of the Passover, which was an annual sabbath called the HIGH DAY.

Mt. 27:27-62 says, "When the even (i.e., between 3 and 6 PM ON "THE DAY OF THE PREPARATION") was come, there came a rich man of Arimathaea, named Joseph...And when Joseph had taken the body, he wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, And laid it in his own new tomb...Now the NEXT DAY THAT FOLLOWED THE DAY OF THE PREPARATION, the chief priests and Pharisees came together unto Pilate..."

Luke 23:52-54 says of Joseph, "This man went unto Pilate, and begged the body of Jesus. And he took it down, and wrapped it in linen, and laid it in a sepulchre that was hewn in stone, wherein never man before was laid. and THAT DAY (Thursday, Nisan 13) WAS THE PREPARATION, and the sabbath (Passover, the High Day, Nisan 14, Friday) drew on."

John 19:38-42 says, "Joseph...took the body of Jesus. And there came also Nicodemus, which at the first (i.e., previously) came to Jesus by night, and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about an hundred pound weight. Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury. Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden; and in the garen a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid. There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' PREPARATION DAY; FOR THE SEPULCHRE WAS NIGH AT HAND."

We have to examine Scripture in detail. Tiny details, easily overlooked, often make a big difference.
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The case for a Thursday Crucifixion, By Ernest l. Martin
http://askelm.com/news/n010501.htm

...The possibility of such a Thursday crucifixion being true is not a new-fangled idea. A major article appeared in the journal Bibliotheca Sacra, vol. 27 (1870), pp. 401–429, titled The Crucifixion on Thursday – Not Friday by J.K. Aldrich. Shortly after this, Professor Westcott of Britain in his An Introduction to the Study of the Gospels (Cambridge: 1881), pp. 343–349, also maintained that Thursday was the day. Recently, primarily based on new astronomical data. Roger Rusk, Emeritus Professor of Physics at the University of Tennessee, has revived the Thursday theory (Christianity Today, March 29, 1974)....
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The Crucifixion of Jesus
http://www.doig.net/NTCIV.htm

...There are six possible combinations leading to four possible dates of the crucifixion. These dates are Thursday, April 6, 30 CE, Friday, April 7, 30 CE, Wednesday, March 28, 31 CE and Friday, April 3, 33 CE. On which day was Jesus nailed1 to the cross?...
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I think the Crucifixion was Thursday, April 6, 30 CE (AD). Agape

Incoming email

The Seven Heads And The Seven Kings, By Pastor Riley
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/apr2005/fmriley413.htm

In Revelation 17:9-12 it is recorded, “And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth. And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh he must continue a short space. And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

In a previous study I suggested that the “seven heads” could be the seven branches or divisions of Catholicism. Regardless of whether they are or not, it is obvious from a careful study of Revelation 13 that the “seven heads” do represent the religious side of the impending New World Order. It is specifically the “heads” that have on them “the name of blasphemy,” 13:1. It is one of these “heads” that is “wounded to death,” 13:3, and then the “deadly wound” is “healed.” It is then this recovered “head” that goes on to speak “great things and blasphemies,” literally blaspheming God Himself, 13:6. All of this emphasizes the religious side of this “beast.”

Now where on this earth is the world headquarters of such a vile, anti-God religious system? Oh yes, there is such a world headquarters from which Satan himself operates. The Lord Jesus Christ Himself, in writing to the church at Pergamos, plainly stated, “I know…..where thou dwellest, even where Satan’s seat [throne] is…,” Revelation 2:13. Folks, at the time John received the Book of Revelation, the world headquarters of Satan’s religious system was located in the city of Pergamos. But it is not there today. Why not? Did Satan close up shop and move out of the world? Not hardly! He only moved his operation to another location.

John, who was living during the “church age” was soon shown things which should be “after these things,” Revelation 4:1; that is, after the church age. In Revelation 17 he was shown “the great whore that sitteth upon many waters.” In this chapter it is specifically stated that “the seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.” It is then stated in 17:18 that the woman herself “is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.” Obviously John had the privilege of seeing the world headquarters of Satanic religion moved from the ancient city of Pergamos to the seven hilled city of Rome....

The Seven Kings

If our readers will carefully notice the wording in Revelation 17:9-11, following the statement about where the woman sits, the Scripture then says, “And [in addition to the seven mountains] there are seven kings: five are fallen [already dead], and one is [reigning at that time; probably Nero], and the other is not yet come [to come in the future]; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.”

“And the beast that was [previously lived], and is not [not alive at that time], even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.”

What these Scriptures tell God’s people is that Almighty God Himself has taken knowledge of “seven kings” that have ruled in past history. One of them was alive and ruling at the time that God gave John the Book of Revelation. But the Lord told John that yet another “eighth” king would come on the world scene in the future, and that he would be one of the previous seven who had already lived.

Folks, what the Lord is doing here is clearly identifying the coming “beast” [Antichrist] as a person who has already lived on this earth, and has already figured in human history, and is yet to return again to play a prominent role during the coming Tribulation....

“The beast” [Antichrist] has already lived, he is going to live again as the “eighth” king, and after he has filled his final role on the human scene he “goeth into perdition.”

Well, what are the names of these “seven kings?” My guess is as good as yours. I don’t know! I highly suspect that one of them, since he was reigning at the time John was given the vision, was Nero. Beyond that I can only guess who the others might be....

My comments

> > what are the names of these “seven kings?”

According to my understanding, here are the names of the 7 mountains, empires, and the main kings. This clip is shot right after the Rapture, when the 10 kings "have received no kingdom as yet," but after the saints "that are with him" (the Lamb of God, Christ) have been caught up to Heaven. The raptured saints are the "called, and chosen, and faithful" (Rev. 17:12,14).

The seven kings are the seven heads of the great red dragon. He has "upon his heads (none is excluded) the name of blasphemy", Pontifex Maximus (Rev. 13:1).

AFTER THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE,
"FIVE ARE FALLEN"
(1) Babel I, Nimrod, the first Pontifex Maximus
(2) Babylon II, Nebuchadnezzar, Pontifex Maximus
(3) Media-Persia, Cyrus, Pontifex Maximus
(4) Greece, Alexander the Great, Pontifex Maximus
(5) Rome, Caesar, Pontifex Maximus

"ONE IS"
(6) Ecclesiastical Rome, the Pontifex Maximus, Pope, ruling during the first half of the Tribulation

"THE OTHER IS NOT YET COME"
(7) Babylon III, the False Prophet, the Pontifex Maximus that comes to full power Mid-Trib and rules during the Great Tribulation

Since the Tribulation Pope is in office at the time of the Rapture, I expect the new Pope to be chosen shortly before the Rapture takes place. To me, this election is an end-time event. I think we will know who the Beast of Rev. 13:3-10 is, but we will not know who the False Prophet will be.


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