Pro and Con 1199

Posted 4-23-05


Arlene (18 Apr 2005)

...I have noted this before, buy hey, why not again..... with some new thoughts.....In the following verse:

John 4:35 - Say not ye, There are yet four months, and then cometh harvest? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are white already to harvest.

In this verse, our Lord says to the deciples "say not ye"; in other words, "don't let me hear you saying......" that there are yet four months to the harvest (and we all know that the harvest is the end of the age because elsewhere He said: )

Matt 13:39 - The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

So, He is speaking about a harvest that happens in four months, and another harvest that is "already ripe to harvest". The harvest that happens at the end of the age, is reaped by angels, which is made abundantly clear in the book of Revelation, where the angels set about to confound the wise in many different ways. Whereas the earlier harvest four months prior is "white", and ready to harvest.

Now which type of field harvest is "white"......I would conjecture here that it is barley, fully ripened, which I have seen at various agricultural websites that I have searched out, is actually white when ready to harvest. Wheat is "golden" as we know from some national song or other. We know that Pentecost celebrates the "firstfruits" of the wheat harvest, so this is the beginning of the wheat harvest, but it is not fully ripe, or white, rather, it is ready to begin the summer harvest of the wheat.

So He says "say not ye", referring to the fall harvest, because it is not four months between the barley and wheat harvest, so the only harvest four months off starts in the fall, which commences at the Feast of Trumpets. Yet, He is not referring to the Pentecost "beginning"of wheat harvest either, because that is golden, not white.

The only conclusion I can arrive at is that He is referring to a fully ripe barley harvest (which occurs the same time as the flax harvest....thus the material with which to fashion our white linen gowns).

Now, here He refers to the growth of a plant for harvest: Mr 4:28 - For the earth bringeth forth fruit of herself; first the blade, then the ear, after that the full corn in the ear. 29 But when the fruit is brought forth, immediately he putteth in the sickle, because the harvest is come.

And this harvest (of a particular grain), is dealt with by Him as "immediately", or quickly, while it is ripe, and He does not indicate that angels have anything to do with this particular ripe harvest.

When He was talking about the wheat and the tares, however, He said something ominous: that the "harvest" would be at the end of the age, and would be done by "angels"...thus separating the wheat from the tares.

Wait, though, before I get lost here, back to the ripe harvest that is white, and comes four months before the fall harvest which represents the last gathering in of the wheat and summer fruits, begun at Trumpets, and celebrated at the 7-day feast of Tabernacles,,,

The white harvest is ripe. Christ is the "firstfruits", of the BARLEY harvest.......if He was the firstfruits of this particular plant, then there must be a full gathering in of the barley, as seen in the book of Ruth, which just precedes the gathering in of the wheat (done by the angels, not by the Lord Himself), and we are told that "the Lord HIMSELF, will descend from heaven with a shout, etc...) and gather together his people at the rapture. This fits with the IMMEDIATE fully ripe plant that gets the sickle put to it.

So Jesus is telling His deciples, and therefore us also, don't look out to the later summer / fall harvests...there is an earlier one, white to harvest. It has to be the ripe barley, and we are told that we are a "kind" of firstfruits, therefore perhaps of the same sort of grain as our Lord; i.e., barley.

Now, it is very interesting to me indeed, that we are once again all looking for the appearance of our Lord in the air, on the date of May 5, 2005. According to the Christian calendar of feasts. If our feast schedule holds true, then we would look four months and see what is happening there: Four months after 5/5/05, just happens to be September 5-6, 2005: THE FEAST OF TRUMPETS this year. If the Jewish calendar prevails, then this same four months would apply being roughly, ASCENSION DAY about the 4th of June, until the Feast of Trumpets on October 5-6. Either way, it is four months. If we use Pentecost as the date instead of Ascension day, ten days early, then there would be ten days missing from the full four months.

Further: quoted from:
Rom. 11:16, 16 For if the first fruit be holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root be holy, so are the branches. The first fruits always sanctified the harvest. When the first fruits of a crop, whether barley or wheat, were offered to God, then the people could go home and harvest the rest of that crop. For this reason, James tells us that the Church is the first fruits of creation. When the Church is “harvested” and brought into God’s house, it is not the end of the world, but the beginning of a greater harvest.

Jesus said, "I am the vine ye are the branches", so we are like Him, also the same type of grain. The wheat field on the other hand is full of tares and has to be dealt with by the angels at the end of the age.

To close, go here:
and scroll down - and notice the color of the barley harvested by the huge combine machine.

May 5, 2005!!!!! We hope, we pray, we wait, and we watch.... Love to all, Arlene

By the way, in the quoted verse John 4:35, Jesus when He was talking about the white fields says, "lift up your eyes, and look"...we are told in Luke 21, also to "look up, for your redemption draws nigh...", and also of Abraham somewhere (don't know where but could find it if challenged). it also says, "And he (Abraham) LIFTED UP HIS EYES, and saw the city afar off". I think when we lift up our eyes, we will see the city somewhat nearer than he did.

My reply

Thank you for this information. I had no idea barley could actually be white at harvest. Not ever seeing barley ripen, I must have pictured wheat at harvest, because that is something I have seen.

Evidently, it can look golden too. This field is high in the mountains.
Impressions from MyHimalayas

"People are harvesting ripe barley in the wide terraced fields above their villages."

"The barley is ripe and people are busy harvesting from early in the morning until late in the evening." Agape

My further thoughts about the meaning of John 4:35

In John 2:13, we read about the first Passover of Jesus' ministry. Verse 23 says, "Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did." In John 3:22, it says, "After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there HE TARRIED with them.

This reminds me of the parable of the 10 virgins. Mt. 25:5 says, "While the bridegroom TARRIED, they all slumbered and slept.

John 43,4 says, "He left Judaea, and departed again into Galilee. And he must needs go through Samaria." There, Jesus talked with the Samaritan woman at the well. Then "Jesus came again into Cana of Galilee" (4:46).

As John 5 begins, we read that "After this there was a feast of the Jews; and Jesus went up to Jerusalem." Since all males were to go up to Jerusalem three times a year, at Passover, Pentecost and Tabernacles, it looks like this feast was Pentecost.

Then just a bit BEFORE PENTECOST, Jesus said, "There are yet FOUR MONTHS AND THEN COMETH HARVEST? behold, I say unto you, Lift up your eyes, and look on the fields; for they are WHITE ALREADY TO HARVEST" (John 4:35). Since Pentecost is Sivan 7, Jesus could have said this in the month of Iyar. The four months would be Sivan, Tamuz, Av and Elul. That harvest would then be on Tishri 1, the date of the second Rapture.

What is in Iyar BEFORE PENTECOST? -- ASCENSION DAY, Iyar 26. I agree with Arlene. To me, this builds a good case for the first Rapture on Ascension Day (June 4, 2005) and the last Rapture on the Feast of Trumpets (Sept. 9, 2010).


Asteroid Belt Discovered Around Our Sun's "Twin"
Brian Handwerk, National Geographic News, 4-21-05 (Nisan 12)

NASA's orbiting Spitzer Space Telescope has found evidence of a massive asteroid belt around a "twin" of our own sun....

"This region around the star is the sort of place where rocky planets [like Earth] may form," Weaver said yesterday at a press conference from NASA headquarters in Washington, D.C.

The star, dubbed HD69830, is some 41 light-years away—which, in space terms, is practically our own backyard. Part of the CONSTELLATION PUPPIS, the star is a tad too faint to see with the unaided eye....

Of the 85 stars Spitzer scientists have examined to date, only HD69830 yielded evidence of an asteroid belt. It is thicker than the asteroid belt in our own solar system, which lies between Mars and Jupiter and packs nearly 25 times more debris.


Puppis is THE POOP-DECK OF THE SHIP ARGO, meaning the company of travelers, i.e., the wise virgins that are to be raptured. Also parts of the ship, there is Carina, the Keel, and Vela the Sails. We have already seen the new star, Nova Velorum (Sivan 7, 5759, Pentecost; May 22,1999) in the sails.

Incoming e-mail, Re: 616,666

Did you see this report? Agape
The newest volume of Oxyrhynchus Papyri contains a fragmentary papyrus of Revelation which is the earliest known witness to some sections (late third / early fourth century). A detailed discussion of its place in the MS tradition is given in the printed volume. You will find images at 150dpi and 300dpi in the papyri section of this site, accessible from the main menu.

One feature of particular interest is the number that this papyrus assigns to the Beast: 616, rather than the usual 666. (665 is also found.) We knew that this variant existed: Irenaeus cites (and refutes) it. But this is the earliest instance that has so far been found. The number - chi, iota, stigma (hexakosiai deka hex) — is in the third line of the fragment shown below. But why does it matter what the number is? For that, we have to turn to ancient Greek ideas about numerology.
666, The Number of the Beast

THE LITERAL MEANING: VICARIUS - substituting for, or in place of.
FILII - means son. DEI - means God

V = 5 F = no value D = 500 I = 1 I = 1 E = no value C = 100 L = 50 I = 1 A = no value I = 1 ------------ R = no value I = 1 501 I = 1 ------------ U = 5 53 S = no value ------------ 112 112 + 53 + 501 = 666

...scholars such as Irenæus attribute the 616 to only a copyist error.

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Marie Komar (18 Apr 2005)
"Daniel's 'Little Horn'"

The Omega Letter Intelligence Digest
Vol: 43 Issue: 17 - Sunday, April 17, 2005

...France is not only one of the founding nations of the EU, it is one of only ten full members of the Western European Alliance, which serves as the EU's security and defense establishment and can also trace its roots to the 1948 Treaty of Brussels....

Ratifying the EU Constitution would achieve the goal set forth by Western European Alliance Recommendation 666. That decision noted that, under its governing treaties, complete merger between the EU and WEU could not take place.

As a compromise, they supported a proposal to have the WEU Secretary General and the EU's Office of the High Representative of the Common Foreign and Security Policy preside over the PSC (Political Security Committee) and convene the council of the European Union in the event of an emergency.

Both jobs are filled by the same person, currently Javier Solana. That person, under the proposed Constitution, makes Solana (or his successor) the defacto head-of-state for BOTH entities....

Currently, the WEU, (comprised of ten FULL members and 18 associate or observer members) and the much-more diverse (and less powerful) 25-nation European Union have come up with a compromise, under the authority of WEU Recommendation 666, for a shared leadership under a single individual.

That position of power, created by WEU Recommendation 666, will be permanently enshrined by the proposed constitution, which so concerns three members of the Original Ten that they may not ratify it.

That would then mean either the collapse of the greater European unity experiment, or a compromise that would allow the greater EU plan to move forward without these three dissenters.

Daniel explains; "The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be DIVERSE from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. " (Daniel 7:23-24)...

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Donna Danna (20 Apr 2005)

"Benedict XVI has celebrated his first Mass as Pope, vowing to strive for the unity of all Christians. Benedict said his first job was to unify all Christians, but also said he was committed to "open and sincere dialogue" with followers of other religions."


(I don't know how the new Pope is planning to unify all Christians unless he plans on giving up the Catholic idea of purgatory, praying to Mary, and there being no salvation outside the Catholic Church to name a few things wrong with the Catholic doctrine. However, if he manages to unify Christians by having them believe any false Catholic doctrine, he willl have unified them into a bunch of apostate Christians.)

"He said his "primary task" would be to work without fail to reunify all Christians and that sentiment alone was not enough. "Concrete acts that enter souls and move consciences are needed," he said." "The new pope said he wanted to continue "an open and sincere dialogue" with other religions and would do everything in his power to improve the ecumenical cause. "


My reply

At the last URL:
...As a cardinal, Ratzinger soured relations with the Russian Patriarchate by backing a move to stop referring to the Orthodox branch of Christianity as a "sister church" — since Roman Catholics see Rome as the "mother" church.

"There may even be a certain cooling of relations," Ogorodnikov said.

Benedict's election Tuesday was welcomed across the Islamic world, where many people hope he will promote harmony between the two religions and possibly Middle East peace. The new pope has supported the Vatican's cautious overtures to mainstream Islamic leaders, but has been critical of perceived discrimination of Christians and Christian institutions in Muslim regions, including parts of the Holy Land.
Pope choice fulfills ancient prophecy? 4-19-05

Saint wrote of 'Glory of the Olive,' which relates to Benedictine Order

A prophecy by a 12th-century Catholic saint that predicted characteristics of the last 112 popes appears to have been strengthened by the election of the new pontiff today.

The prophecy labels the new pope "the Glory of the Olive." The Benedictine Order known as the Olivetans has as its symbol the olive branch. The new pope, though not of that order, chose as his name Benedict XVI.

St. Malachy, an Irish Catholic bishop, was known as a gifted prophet, even predicting the date of his own death in 1148. He was canonized in 1190 by Pope Clement III.

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Marianne Haworth (20 Apr 2005)
"where are we now in God's timeline?"

Now with this new pope where are we in God's timeline?
I personally feel that maybe this one won't be pope long, and that then the 112th one comes which might become the false prophet.
Also this one is quite old, at 78 how long would he reign for?

If 2005 is THE year of the beginning of the countdown, I wonder if this pope is that one that playes the role in the end time scenario, or an other one? What do you doves think??? God bless you all, marianna.

PS Here in NZ we had a huge volcanic exlosions in Rotorua, the biggest one in 50 years, it blew a hole the size of an olympic swimming pool.

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Jeff (20 Apr 2005)
"Noah's Ark: Authentic?"

I just finished watching a program on the Discovery channel titled "Noah's Ark: The Real Story". Among other things, it stated that it is scientifically impossible to flood the entire earth- there simply isn't enough water. Another argument disputed being able to build an ark to hold every species and having the time to heard them into the ark. I have always taken every word of the Bible as fact, but the arguments got me to thinking. Does anyone here have any good arguments 'for' the flood story? I'd appreciate hearing them :) God Bless, Jeff

My reply

> > disputed being able to build an ark to hold every species and having the time to heard them into the ark.

I agree with you, the Bible is fact. Noah had as much as 120 years to build the Ark according to God's specs. With the perfect architect of the universe directing Noah and his three sons, it was possible. The Ark was as large as an ocean liner, and eight people didn't take up much space. I imagine the animals hibernated during that year. Whatever, God took care of them.

Noah didn't have to herd the animals into the Ark. All the animals came to Noah, who was already in the Ark. Human or animal, all boarded the Ark on the same day. After they were all aboard, the Lord shut them in, and it began to rain.

Gen 7:11-15 says, "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month (Cheshvan 17), THE SAME DAY were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights. IN THE SELFSAME DAY ENTERED Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark; THEY, AND EVERY BEAST after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort. And THEY WENT IN UNTO NOAH into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life."

> > there simply isn't enough water.

Whoever wrote that script didn't know what he was talking about. This is a watery planet. Right now, if the land were flat, the entire surface would be below sea level. The water would cover the earth.

Right now, scads of house-sized water comets hit our atmosphere every day.
"The Original Discovery":
"Small Comet Images Pass the Ultimate Test,
Proving the Reality of Atmospheric Holes":
"Atmospheric Holes: Instrumental and Geophysical Effects":
"At a rate of one 20-to-40 ton comet every three seconds, this influx of small comets into the atmosphere would add about one inch of water to the Earth's surface every 20,000 years or so."

Right now, there are black smokers, "fountains of the great deep", in the ocean floor pouring mineralized water into the oceans. Right now, there are vast underground aquifers. Right now, we have springs and artesian wells bringing water out of the ground naturally. We have lakes and rivers fed by springs. In Noah's day, there was a tremendous amount of water in the atmosphere too. It hadn't rained since Adam was created.


There is "water under the earth." Think of how many wells are drawing water out of the underground aquifers now. Every person on Earth needs water every day. Ex. 20:4 says, "Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in THE WATER UNDER THE EARTH."

The average elevation of the continents is 2790 feet above sea level. The average depth of the oceans is 12,230 feet below sea level. There is much more water below sea level than land above sea level.

"If the earth's solid surface were reduced to a single level plain, that is, if the continents were reduced to rubble and poured into the ocean basins, the earth would be completely covered by an ocean 2640 M (1660 ft) deep." This is from my copy of "Exploration of the Oceans," by John G. Weihaupt, p. 31. As you can probably tell, I'm very interested in Geography, Oceanography and Astronomy.

In Gen. 1:2, the whole earth was covered with water. It says, "the earth was (hayah, became) without form, and void (tohu and bohu, waste and desolation, probably because of an asteroid impact); and darkness (from the thick dark smoke and debris) was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon THE FACE OF THE WATERS."

In Gen. 1:9,10, "God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto ONE PLACE (i.e., the Pacific Basin, probably formed when the Moon was blasted off the Earth by an asteroid impact), and LET THE DRY LAND APPEAR: and it was so. And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas."

Job 38:8-11 says, "who shut up THE SEA with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb? When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and THICK DARKNESS A SWADDLINGBAND FOR IT, AND BRAKE UP FOR IT MY DECREED PLACE (the Pacific Basin), and set bars and doors, And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?"

A large asteroid seems to have come in at an oblique angle and hit Earth. I think this caused a portion of Earth's crust to reach escape velocity of 7.5 miles per second and eventually form our Moon. Just as we would expect in a case like this, it is pockmarked with craters on top of craters. Also, it rotates at the same rate as Earth and is still moving away from us at about an inch per year. No wonder so many of the same minerals are found on both Earth and Moon. The Moon is lacking those that would have vaporized in the heat of the initial explosion. Sodium, potassium, lead and rubidium are relatively depleted on the Moon. The shock caused the abundance of glass beads found on the Moon. We have glass ash in our Pacific Basin and glassy microspherules scattered all over the Earth, mute evidence of asteroid impact. The impact probably knocked Earth into its 23 degree axial tilt. The impact would also explain the nickel/cobalt ratio of Earth's upper mantle. Agape

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