Pro and Con 1215

Posted 6-4-05

"John the Baptist’s Cave: The Case in Favor" should be very interesting

See Biblical Archaeology Review article by Shimon Gibson and James Tabor (translator for the Original Bible Project)

Three issues ago we reported on the discovery of a cave near Jerusalem that received widespread international media attention because it was said to be associated with John the Baptist (“John the Baptist’s Cave???” November/December 2004). We also reported that scholars in Jerusalem with whom we talked had a “risible reaction” to this claim.

The excavators of the cave requested an opportunity to make their case to readers, and we are happy to oblige. Their article appears below (not unless you subscribe to the BAR). In addition, in this issue is a review of the senior excavator’s book (Shimon Gibson's book) on this controversial cave. With all this, readers should be able to make up their own minds.

Voyager 1 at Solar System Edge, Scientists Now Agree

Stefan Lovgren, 6-2-05

After almost two years of debate, scientists agree that NASA's Voyager 1 spacecraft has entered the outer edge of our solar system.

Voyager 1 and its twin, Voyager 2, were launched in 1977 on a mission to explore Jupiter and Saturn. They've been traveling outward ever since....

Now Voyager 1 has entered uncharted territory: the heliosheath. The sheath also marks the transition between our solar system and the interstellar medium.

"There's a lot we don't know about this region," Stone said. "We are trying to learn how our sun creates this bubble around itself that shields us from cosmic rays which are out in the galaxy nearby."

Scientists don't know exactly how wide the heliosheath is, but they expect that it will take Voyager 1 another 10 years or so to travel through the region. The spacecraft is expected to keep going until it runs out of power, probably around 2020 at the earliest....

Incoming e-mail, RE: Day of Ascension/Rapture

Acts 1:1 The former treatise have I made, O Theophilus, of all that Jesus began both to do and teach,
Acts 1:2 Until the day in which he was taken up, after that he through the Holy Ghost had given commandments unto the apostles whom he had chosen:
Acts 1:3 To whom also he shewed himself alive after his passion by many infallible proofs, being seen of them forty days, and speaking of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God:

If Sunday morning was the first day (1) April 9th that Jesus was seen then it seems to me that the 40th day would have been a Thursday, May 18th.

Acts 1:12 then follows saying the disciples then returned into Jerusalem, a sabbath day's journey which would seem to have been only possible on Thursday evening to Friday evening and not permitted due to its distance on a Friday evening to Saturday evening (a sabbath).

My reply

> > If Sunday morning was the first day (1) April 9th that Jesus was seen then it seems to me that the 40th day would have been a Thursday, May 18th.

Look at the chart again. In 30 AD, Monday is day #1. Pentecost is the Feast of WEEKS. We are to count 7 weeks, which equal 49 days.We are to count FROM THE DAY OF FIRSTFRUITS, Sunday to Sunday. That 1st week is 7 days long, (1) Monday, (2) Tuesday, (3) Wednesday, (4) Thursday, (5) Friday, (6) Saturday, and (7) Sunday.

Sunday (April 9, Nisan 16, Firstfruits)
To Sunday (April 16, Nisan 23) is week number 1 (April 9th + 7 = 16th)
To Sunday (April 23, Nisan 30) is week number 2 (April 16th + 7 = 23rd)
To Sunday (April 30, Iyar 7) is week number 3 (April 23rd = 7 = 30th)
To Sunday (May 7, Iyar 14) is week number 4 (April 30 + 7 = May 7)
To Sunday (May 14, Iyar 21) is week number 5 (May 7 + 7 = May 14)
To Sunday (May 21, Iyar 28) is week number 6 (May 14 + 7 = May 21)
To Sunday (May 28, Sivan 6) is week number 7 May 21 + 7 = May 28) (7 X 7 = 49 days)

Monday (May 29, Sivan 7) is Pentecost, the 50th day.
Ascension Day is the 40th day (Friday, May 19, Iyar 26) (May 29 - 10 days = May 19, Iyar 26)

May 29 is easy for me to remember, It is our daughter's birthday. Her son just missed her birthday by 5 hours, and was born on May 30. My brother was born on May 31. Ed's cousin that was raised with him as a brother, had a June 1st birthday. Strange, how they line up.

> > Acts 1:12 then follows saying the disciples then returned into Jerusalem, a sabbath day's journey which would seem to have been only possible on Thursday evening to Friday evening and not permitted due to its distance on a Friday evening to Saturday evening (a sabbath).

Acts 1:12,13 says, "Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey. And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room". The distance from Mt. Olivet to Jerusalem was allowed on the Sabbath. Agape

His reply

I'm sorry, but I'm still having trouble resolving your calendar dating system. From John 20:1 we have the clear statement:

Jhn 20:1 The first [day] of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

and then following:

Jhn 20:11 But Mary stood without at the sepulchre weeping: and as she wept, she stooped down, [and looked] into the sepulchre,
Jhn 20:12 And seeth two angels in white sitting, the one at the head, and the other at the feet, where the body of Jesus had lain.
Jhn 20:13 And they say unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? She saith unto them, Because they have taken away my Lord, and I know not where they have laid him.
Jhn 20:14 And when she had thus said, she turned herself back, and saw Jesus standing, and knew not that it was Jesus.
Jhn 20:15 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, why weepest thou? whom seekest thou? She, supposing him to be the gardener, saith unto him, Sir, if thou have borne him hence, tell me where thou hast laid him, and I will take him away.
Jhn 20:16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.

and continuing on:

Jhn 20:19 Then the same day at evening, being the first [day] of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace [be] unto you.
Jhn 20:20 And when he had so said, he shewed unto them [his] hands and his side. Then were the disciples glad, when they saw the Lord.

Is not the "first day of the week" on the Jewish calendar a Sunday from Saturday night 6pm to Sunday night 6pm? And, it would seem that the term "from firstfruits" would include this Sunday and not mean "after". Clearly Jesus was seen by Mary Magdalene and many disciples on the first day of the week, a Sunday.

My reply

The Jews figure days, weeks and years by continuous running time, just as we do. They only figure blocks of years by inclusive reckoning. For instance, the Six-Day War of 1967 lasted from June 5th through 10th. That is 5 days by running time and 6 days by inclusive reckoning, when the first day is counted. Since it is a block of time separated from continuous running time, it is called the Six-Day War instead of the Five-Day War.

Someone pointed out to me once that if a week was figured by inclusive reckoning, you would would lose one day each week. That way, starting on Sunday, the 1st week would end on Saturday, the 2nd week would end on Friday, the 3rd week would end on Thursday, the 4th week would end on Wednesday, the 5th week would end on Tuesday, the 6th week would end on Monday, and the 7th week would end on Sunday. You would lose 1 week every 7 weeks. Instead of adding 49 days, you would be adding 42 days. That isn't workable timekeeping. I don't know of any calendar that works that way.

The one thing that seems to have been kept correctly from the beginning is the days of the week. Even when 10 days were dropped to begin the Gregorian Calendar, the days of the week were kept straight. Only the date changed.

Lev 25:8 gives us the pattern that clears it up for us, and this kind of counting applies whether it is days, weeks or years. The KJV says, "thou shalt number seven sabbaths (seven sevens, or seven weeks) of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths (sevens) of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years." It is 7 x 7 (49) years, not 7 x 6 (42) years. Therefore, it is figured by running time: 7years x 7 = 49 years.

Here is how the Jews see it. Lev. 25:8 (JPS) says, "thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and there shall be unto thee THE DAYS OF SEVEN SABBATHS OF YEARS, EVEN FORTY AND NINE YEARS."

If on Sunday, April 9, a golf buddy said, "Meet me back here in a week," on which day would you go for your next game with him? Wouldn't you meet him again on Sunday, the 16th? Wouldn't you add 7 days? (Sunday, April 9 + 7 days = Sunday, April 16)

I'd go on the following Sunday. A week is 7 days. How many days would be in that week, Sunday to Sunday, even if you started playing at dawn?
1st day, Monday, April 10
2nd day, Tuesday, April 11
3rd day, Wednesday, April 12
4th day, Thursday, April 13
5th day, Friday, April 14
6th day, Saturday, April 15
7th day, Sunday, April 16

We can count a bit differently if we want to. The result is the same, a 7-day week, frum Sunday to Sunday.
From dawn SUNDAY to dawn Monday is the 1st day
From dawn Monday to dawn Tuesday is the 2nd day
From dawn Tuesday to dawn Wednesday is the 3rd day
From dawn Wednesday to dawn Thursday is the 4th day
From dawn Thursday to dawn Friday is the 5th day
From dawn Friday to dawn Saturday is the 6th day
From dawn Saturday to dawn SUNDAY is the 7th day, end of 1 complete week

Here is how the Jews understand Lev 23:15. The JPS says, "ye shall count unto you FROM THE MORROW after the day of rest, FROM the day that ye brought the sheaf of the waving; SEVEN WEEKS shall there be complete." A complete week is 7 days.

The same verse in the KJV says, "ye shall count unto you FROM THE MORROW (min mochorath, from, after, since the morrow, next day) after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering (i.e., from Sunday); SEVEN SABBATHS shall be complete."

"SEVEN SABBATHS shall be complete" should be understood as "SEVEN WEEKS", which is 49 days. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Maybe we can now know the day and hour of the Rapture

...I am confessing my sins and eagerly awaiting the next few hours when we shall begin another watch. Especially looking forward to 2 PM - 8 PM EDT which brackets midnight Jerusalem time for us here on the East coast. The 864000 number is very sobering, but then "few" is also sobering, so I am casting myself before the LORD and crying out to Him to have mercy upon me and count me worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass that I may stand before the Son of man VERY SOON.

After watching these several years with you, I cannot thank you enough for your faithfulness to the mission He has entrusted to you. You have ministered to me countless times thru your Spirit-inspired insights from the Word. Am really looking forward to meeting you and Ed VERY SOON in 'His Place'. And, if not in the next few hours, then, hopefully, SOON! Agape

My reply

Thanks for your kind words. You have helped us make it through in more ways than one. We are eternally grateful.

It is good to hear from you again....Surely the Rapture is near. It now looks as if the Bride has been tested 7 years to see if she would patiently and hopefully persevere (as you taught me) while watching and waiting.

Rev. 3:10 says, "Because thou hast kept the word of my patience (hupomone, cheerful, hopeful patient endurance, continuance, waiting), I also will keep thee from (ek, out of, Rev. 5:9) the hour of temptation (trial), which shall come (in the future) upon ALL THE WORLD, TO TRY THEM THAT DWELL UPON THE EARTH."

Notice how all those that STILL dwell on Earth after the Rapture are to be tried. 1Peter 4:17 says, "For the time is come that judgment must BEGIN AT THE HOUSE OF GOD: and if IT FIRST BEGIN AT US, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" They will be tried during the Great Tribulation.

The Bride is caught up after the 7 good years. Then the Tribulation saints will be caught up after the following 7 bad years. Rev. 7:14 says, "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." After every saint is in Heaven, all left on Earth are unbelievers. While we are receiving our rewards in Heaven, the asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10, and the worldwide earthquake, will destroy every wall of the cities of the nations (Eze. 38:20; Rev. 16:18,19).

Rev. 11:18,19 says, "the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged (at the Judgment Seat of Christ), and that thou shouldest give REWARD unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, SMALL AND GREAT; and shouldest destroy them (the unbelievers) which destroy the earth (i.e., the destruction is brought on by their unbelief). And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament (with the two stone tablets, whose commandments are broken by all on Earth): and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail" (when two stones hit Earth).

God never leaves himself without a witness. Many will see the first Rapture take place, fear and trust in the Lord. Psa. 40:1-3 says, "I WAITED PATIENTLY for the LORD; and he inclined (bent down) unto me, and heard my cry. HE BROUGHT ME UP also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay (Earth, as the miry pit Jeremiah was lifted out of with cord and filthy rags), and set my feet upon a rock, and established my goings. And he hath put a new song in my mouth, even praise unto our God: MANY SHALL SEE IT, AND FEAR, AND SHALL TRUST IN THE LORD."

Israel will be born in a day, that day. Isa. 66:8 says, "Who hath heard such a thing? who hath seen such things? Shall the earth be made to bring forth in one day? or shall a nation be born at once? for as soon as Zion travailed, she brought forth her children." The Jews are smart. God gave them good brains. In that day, things will finally click together in their heads, and they will accept Yeshua as their Messiah and Saviour.

Since the last Rapture has already taken place, they will live on into the Millennium on Earth. On the 1335th day, Daniel will finally stand in his lot in Israel. The Jews that choose to come back to Earth can do so. Dan. 12:12,13 says, "Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest (in Heaven), and stand in thy lot (on Earth) at the end of the days."

Abel, Enoch, Noah, Abraham and Sara choose to live in Heaven. Heb. 11:16,17 says, "And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out (Israel on Earth), they might have had opportunity to have returned. But now they desire a better country, that is, an HEAVENLY: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city" (New Jerusalem, Rev. 3:12).

> > The 864000 number is very sobering

It certainly is. I got another thought on that. If the Rapture takes place on Ascension Day, the 40th day in the countdown of the Omer, or sheaves, it could involve 40/50ths (80/100ths), 80 % of the saints. However, those 6 measures of barley given to Ruth seem significant. Whether that could mean 6 out of a possible 7 because 7 means completion, may or may not be true. What we can be sure of is that the foolish virgins will be left behind. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: God of the Second Chance

In the last several P/C's you mentioned that the Bride of Christ, the few, may number only 864,000 earning the Prize of the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. Your comments through Scriptures certainly bare truth in a low number who obtain an "Open" door. This smacks a whole lot of believer's in the face since most clergy teach that "all" who are saved obtain Pre-Rapture Status. Time will tell on the quantity and quantity of believers. In view of the hour of reckoning is near, I would wish that everyone to know that God's grace is in abundance (read Revelation, Chapter two and three), that if one finds themselves "Left Behind", instead of gnashing your teeth and cursing God, remember, that God is a God of Second Chance. We who may be left behind can still overcome by the blood of the Lamb and the words of our testimony as we finally "wash" and "prepare" our garments.

Time is very short, and it is never too late to repent.

If one finds themselves left behind, go to Google's Search Engine and type in "God of the Second Chance". Glean through them...There are 8,540,000 sites giving light to this wonderful and "Just" nature of our God. To live Christ...some may have to die Christ. I pray those of us who may be left behind get the picture and live out the remainder of time on earth able to endure until the end. It looks as if Marilyn is correct in the "time and date". If not, then maybe the day after. Continue to watch and prepare (be ready) for the Rapture whenever it does occur. Now, there is God's grace...perhaps we should also bring along others too!

Thanks garments are much better today than yesterday as I give you thanks...See ya (Your whole house hold) soon!

My reply

Thanks for your kind words.

Luke 13:24 says, "Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able."

About the number of the Bride to be raptured, a thought just hit me when I read the following on Five Doves site today:
Bob D (2 June 2005)

...On Firstfruits the sheaf was waved in the Temple, so in modern day observances this 50 day count is called the " COUNTING OF THE SHEAVES."...
It seems that the Bride can be numbered, but could it be expressed just as a percentage of the whole Body of Christ? If the Rapture is on Ascension Day, could 40/50ths (80/100ths, 80%) of the believers be caught up. Could that be one of the reasons why we have to count, and why Jesus ascended on the 40th day of a 50-day countdown?

I think it was Jim Bramlett's post on Five Doves today that said there were lots of people accepting Christ now, even Muslims. That's encouraging.

Psa 126:6 says, "He that goeth forth and weepeth, bearing precious seed, shall doubtless come again with rejoicing, bringing his sheaves with him."

Mic 4:12 says, "they know not the thoughts of the LORD, neither understand they his counsel: for HE SHALL GATHER THEM AS THE SHEAVES into the floor." Agape

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