Pro and Con 1219

Posted 6-21-05

The Lesser Sheepfold

By Marilyn Agee

Isa. 9:18: "and they shall mount up like the lifting up of smoke."

I remember that a correspondent said that Saturn is due to move from Gemini into the constellation Cancer about July 12. Cancer in Arabic is from khan, the travellers resting place, and cer, which means encircled or embraced. It stands for Heaven, a holding place (until we come back with the Lion of the tribe of Judah), and Cancer is the sign of Judah, of whom Jesus is descended.

The Decans of Cancer are the Greater and Lesser Sheepfolds, now known as Ursa Major and Ursa Minor, and the ship Argo, meaning the company of travelers. The Lesser Sheepfold represents the sheep that will be caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture. The door of this sheepfold faces Polaris, around which the world turns, and Cepheus, representing Christ. Cepheus is holding aloft the fabric ribbons that show he is a religious leader, a man of the cloth. Draco winds his tail around behind this sheepfold, but the door is free and clear. It is open at the feet of the Good Shepherd.

The brightest star in Cancer is Acubene, the sheltering, or hiding place. Another name for it is Ma Alaph, the assembled thousands. The next brightest star is Teqmine, the fold or holding. Another star is Al Himarein, the kids or lambs. In God's picture book in the stars, the ship Argo, a Decan of Cancer, means the company of travelers. This ship will unload the lambs in Heaven, the sheltering place for the assembled thousands. The Crab's many legs stood for a multitude in hieroglyphics.

Draco sticks his tail (representing the False Prophet) between the Minor Sheepfold (representing the Pre-Trib-Rapture saints) and the Major Sheepfold (representing the Pre-Wrath-Rapture saints). Hydra, the water snake that also represents Satan, sticks his head between the ship Argo (the company of travelers) and Cancer (Heaven), but he will not prevail. There is Judah's sign, Leo the lion, ready to pounce on him. That suggests the Tribulation period.

Here is they sky on August 15, 2005. Saturn and Mercury are in Cancer. The Sun is near Regulus, the king star, in Leo. Venus and Jupiter are in Virgo. It paints a good picture for us.

Incoming e-mail, Re: Tisha B'Av, the 9th of Av

Sister Agee, Brother Jim & all -

First -
Jim - thanks for your message. It caused some pieces of this puzzle to fall into place with what I believe is absolute accuracy. Again THANKS.

Sister Agee-
I will direct my comments to you (cc: all) because of what you now believe will be pre-trib rapture/change. You will be amazed at what has already been shown by Our Lord re 9th/10th Av for 2005 and the astounding heavenly displays which point to 9th/10th Av... I will explain after Jim's message to me...

First - a paste of Jim's message (my comments follow)
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
In a message dated 6/19/2005 2:47:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time, writes:

Marilyn Agee says "Either the time of firstripe grapes, Sivan 29 (Wednesday, July 6, 2005), when the spies went into the Promised Land, or 40 days later, Av 10 (Monday, August 15, 2005), when they returned with "ONE CLUSTER OF GRAPES", now seem to be likely dates for the Pre-Trib Rapture."

Personally, I would opt for one day earlier on August -- August 14, 2005 -- because that is Tisha B'Av, the 9th of Av, the most tragic day on the Jewish calendar.

Why? The rapture will no doubt be the most tragic day in all history for the Jewish people. That is when Israel's only friends on earth will be removed and they will be left to themselves as subjects of Satan's wrath. They will experience hell on earth. The rapture will be the ultimate tragedy for Israel, far more than any other 9th of Av.

For two other reasons, August 14 is another significant day to me:

1. It was my mother's birthday.
2. It was VJ Day (victory over Japan) in 1945, so it was a day of great victory -- final victory in WW 2. It may be the great and final victory for God's people.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Excellent thinking on both counts.

Sister Agee, I had missed the Biblical fact that the spies returned on 10th Av with one cluster of grapes.

A word of credit (which you don't want) to you as one of the most respected students (to my knowledge) of end-time Biblical prophetic events and related to astronomy. I know you don't expect that - as you, like all of us, just want the praise, honor and glory to go to Y'shua - and so it does. That is simply offered as a word of encouragement - Thanks.

Above, I referred to "the astounding heavenly displays"... pointing to 9th/10th Av - - - - WHAT????

Do those actually exist? YES !!!
Would you consider an annular solar eclipse at Regulus, The King Star, in Leo's front paw exactly 7 prophetic years before 9/10th Av as important? Would you consider impacts on Jupiter by SL-9 eleven gregorian years before 9th/10th Av as important?
Would you consider the longest lunar eclipse in 140 years prior to that date as important?

ALL of the above is true and verifyable pointing to 9th/10th Av. There is only one problem... They don't point to the "accepted calendar". They point directly to the AVIV calendar which is one lunar cycle earlier.

Aviv, ripened barley, was found on March 8, 2005. The Sanhedrin did not declare Nisan one - so this entire Jewish year on the accepted calendar is out by one lunar cycle. It is one lunar cycle "too late".

Checking the 9th/10th Av on the Aviv calendar shows it as July 16-17 2005. The "events" I referred to all are related to July 16-17, 2005 and NOT to August 15, 2005.

SL-9 began its 21 impacts on Jupiter on July 16, 1994 - 11 gregorian years before July 16, 2005.
There was an annular solar Eclipse at Regulus, The King Star, in Leo's front paw on 8-22-1998 - 2520 days (7 prophetic years) before July 17, 2005.
The longest lasting lunar eclipse in 140 years was on July 16, 2000.
Click here: Pacific Lunar Eclipse

There are multiple other earthly witnesses at links which I will provide at the end of this message.

However before that, I wish to respectfully submit that July 17, 2005 is a warning only. When the spies returned with the one bunch of grapes and their report was BAD, it was "A WARNING" that they would endure some hard things.

I believe that July 16/17, 2005 will be a ten-day warning pointing to a subsequent event on July 26/27 (19th/20th Av) 2005. That is when I believe that overcomers are taken/changed.

Rev says "of you shall have tribulation ten days". We are not appointed to God's WRATH - which comes later; but, I believe those are literal days and I further believe that everyone will endure those "first ten days". Others will endure much more.

I think there is a good possibility that those ten days are from July 17 to July 27, 2005.

I know your are most familiar with In the ten days between July 17 and July 27, Mars exactly crosses Pisces. Even to my untrained eye, that spells war/tribulation.

I personally have information substantiating July 27, 2005 as being important as I do on July 17, 2005; however, that can wait a few days.

As I stated, there are earthly witnesses implicating July 17, as important. Most of that information can be found at these links ... 9th Av (Aviv Calendar -July 16/17 2005)

A Strange Work

For Calvin's information on 7:17 - July 17, 2005 info you need to "follow his links".

What really throws the entire current situation 'out of kilter' is that 9th Av arrives one moon cycle early due to The Sanhedrin not declaring Nisan 1. As a result, 9th Av-10th Av comes on Israel who is not expecting 9th Av in July; but, is expecting it to be during August. Jesus is Lord

My reply

Thanks for your kind words. It is nice to be appreciated.

> > Would you consider impacts on Jupiter by SL-9 eleven gregorian years before 9th/10th Av as important?


> > ALL of the above is true and verifyable pointing to 9th/10th Av. There is only one problem... They don't point to the "accepted calendar". They point directly to the AVIV calendar which is one lunar cycle earlier.
> > SL-9 began its 21 impacts on Jupiter on July 16, 1994 - 11 gregorian years before July 16, 2005.

I don't go by the Aviv calendar. In the long run, the Official Hebrew Calendar is astonishingly accurate. I wouldn't want to throw it off by a whole month now. All that was necessary was that there be Abib/Aviv barley at Firstfruits. When barley first came into ear was not mentioned.

The hits on Jupiter made an unmistakeable sign to the whole world. The String of Pearls also reminds me of the day Jesus will make up his jewels.

We don't need to alter the Official Hebrew Calendar. July 16, 1994 was Av 8, 5754. The impacts continued through a 7-day block (counted by inclusive reckoning) Av 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 and 14. This calls attention to Av 9/10. I don't know what the exact hour was in Israel when it hit. If you find out, please let me know.

I went by Av 10 because of the quotes below. I am aware that the Jews keep Av 9, but they also keep Passover on Nisan 15. According to Lev. 23:5, it is the 14th. Since there are 2 days on Earth at any one time, a two-day span seems reasonable anyway.

The fifth month is Av or Ab. Concerning the burning of the first temple, Jer. 52:12,13 (Stone Edition Tanach) says, "IN THE FIFTH MONTH, ON THE TENTH OF THE MONTH, which was the nineteenth year of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylonia, Nebuzaradan, the chief executioner, [who] was in the service of the king of Babylonia, came to Jerusalem. HE BURNED THE TEMPLE OF HASHEM".

Jer. 52:12,13 (JPS) says, "Now in the fifth month, in the TENTH day of the month, which was the nineteenth year of king Nebuchadrezzar, king of Babylon, came Nebuzaradan the captain of the guard, who stood before the king of Babylon, into Jerusalem; and he burned the house of the LORD."

Concerning the burning of the "second temple", Josephus, a Pharisee priest that lived when it happened, said, "So Titus retired into the tower of Antonia, and resolved to storm the temple the next day, early in the morning, with his whole army, and to encamp round about the holy house; but, as for that house, God had for certain long ago doomed it to the fire; and now that fatal day was come, according to the revolution of ages: IT WAS THE TENTH DAY OF THE MONTH LOUS, [AB,] UPON WHICH IT WAS FORMERLY BURNT BY THE KING OF BABYLON" (Wars. VI. IV. 5).

The temple of God went up in clouds of smoke on Av 10--twice. Since we are the temple of the Holy Spirit, that seems to suggest that we might go up in clouds on Av 10. On that date, the temple ceased to exist on Earth, but it existed in Heaven. That's very suggestive that the temple of the Holy Spirit might cease to exist on Earth on Av 10 and go up into the clouds to Heaven. We will know before long.

If the 10 days of tribulation in Rev. 2:10 stand for 10 years, those saints could be given their crowns as the 11th year begins. Thanks for reminding me of the 11 years since the String of Pearls hit Jupiter. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: New Reader

I just discovered your web sight. I have skimmed parts of it and bookmarked it for futher study.

Although I live in Virginia, I have family (wife's side) in La Habra. I think the kids go to Troy High School. My Mother in law is with the Lord, but her body rests in La Mirada.

Anyway, I am a born again 52 year old believer, (brought up Methodist, but switched to Baptist), who looks at the world today and marvels at the patience of the Lord. I dont have your depth of scripture, but I too think the rapture cant be far off.

May God bless you and your ministry.

My reply

Thanks. Lots of things are alike. I too was brought up Methodist, but switched to Baptist. We lived in La Mirada 27 years, moved into the 3rd tract built there. Had to pick up our mail at the RR station at first, and watched them fill in the deep hole where the shopping center would be built.

I have been posting on my Web page since 1996. I suggest that on the Pro and Cons, you read that latest first. Agape

Venus transited the Sun June 8, 2004

My comment

Maybe the two transits of Venus will bracket the two Raptures that begin and end the shortened Tribulation. June 8, 2004 was Tues. Sivan 19, 5764. June 6, 2012 will be Wed., Sivan 16, 5772.

Incoming e-mail, Re: Noah and the Rapture

On 05/31 you wrote that Noah rising in the waters represents the rapture "going up". That may be true, but here is another thought. Noah goes through the storm "tribulation", with God of course, and really represents Israel going through the tribulation. Where Enoch, "walked with God and was no more," He was taken up "Rapture". I think that Enoch represents the Church and the pre-trib rapture, while Noah represents Israel and goes through the tribulation, but is delivered at the end. After all, God took Enoch before the storm, while Noah had to go through it. I am not so dogmatic on this issue, either way, we go, but it seems to make more sense.

My reply

> > Noah goes through the storm "tribulation", with God of course, and really represents Israel going through the tribulation.

Where are the match-marks that show that these two puzzle pieces fit together? The trial that is going to come upon the whole world seems to be the Seventieth Week of Dan. 9:27. That lasts 7 years. The turbulent waters that Noah was protected from lasted only 40 days and 40 nights, and didn't actually touch Noah. He only stayed in the Ark one lunar year, not a week of years.

I think the First Rapture is like Enoch's Rapture and the Second Rapture is like Elijah's, which came after Enoch's. The first is peaceful. The second is not. "Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him" (Gen. 5:24).

1Ki 17:1 says, "Elijah the Tishbite, who was of the inhabitants of Gilead, said unto Ahab, As the LORD God of Israel liveth, before whom I stand, there shall not be dew nor rain these years, but according to my word." Right away, it sounds like the first part of the Tribulation. Rev. 6:5,6 tells us of famine. Rev. 11:6 tells us that the two witnesses "have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy". That covers the first 1260 days of the Tribulation, and Elijah's prediction was of a three-year drought.

I Ki. 18:1 says, "it came to pass after many days, that the word of the LORD came to Elijah in the THIRD YEAR, saying, Go, shew thyself unto Ahab; and I will send RAIN upon the earth." After the test of Yahweh vs. Baal, when "the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice" (I Ki. 18:38), "Elijah said unto Ahab, Get thee up, eat and drink; for there is a sound of abundance of RAIN" (1Ki 18:41).

The Pre-Trib Rapture is like Enoch (a man whom God took away quietly without fire) and as the DAYS of Noah (whom God floated up without fire).

The Pre-Wrath Rapture is like Elijah (a man who was taken up in a chariot of fire) and as the DAYS of Lot. After Lot left Sodom, fire and brimstone fell and wiped out the cities of the plain. 2Ki 2:11 says, "as they (Elisha and Elijah) still went on, and talked...behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."

In the days of Noah, "they were given in marriage" (Luke 17:27). These represent the Bride of Christ. In the days of Lot, they were not given in marriage (Luke 17:28). Noah and his sons had their wives with them in the Ark. Lot's wife didn't make it.

"But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed" (Luke 17:29,30). He is revealed when the Sign of the Son of man is seen in the sky (Mt. 24:30; Rev. 6:14). When this happens, the Day of God's Wrath has come.

Rev. 6:14-17 says, "And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together (i.e., showing the Sign of the Son of Man); and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the FACE of him that sitteth on the throne (seen in the sky), and from the WRATH OF THE LAMB: For THE GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH IS COME; and who shall be able to stand?"

Eze 38:18 And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that MY FURY shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy and in the FIRE OF MY WRATH have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence (FACE, i.e., the Sign of the Son of Man), and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground. And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother. And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, FIRE, AND BRIMSTONE (as in the days of Lot). Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the EYES OF MANY NATIONS (the Sign of the Son of Man), and they shall KNOW that I am the LORD." Agape

Note: I think the two groups to be raptured are represented by the two pillars in front of the Temple. Rev. 3:11 says, "Him that overcometh will I make a PILLAR IN THE TEMPLE of my God, and he shall go no more out." The first Rapture is represented by the pillar named Boaz (fleetness, strength). The second Rapture is represented by the pillar named Jachin (God establishes, steadfast, stability).

Incoming e-mail, Re: Isaiah

I believe that Isaiah 11, 10 thru 11 speaks of the two part rapture.

Isaiah 11-10. And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious. (first part).

Isaiah 11-11. And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people which are left, from Assyria,and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea. (second part). In Him

My reply

To me, it seems more likely that the setting is the Millennium, when Christ is King of kings and Lord of lords..

Isa. 11:6 says, "The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them."

At that time, the Jews will be gathered to Israel "from the four corners of the earth" (Isa. 11:12). Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Tishri 1

Tishri 1 is Sept. 3 in o5
The chart shows that grapes, figs, pomegranates and olives are ready.
Tishri 1 is a Trinity... annual Sabbath on a weekly Sabbath on a new moon.
Tishri 1 (05) plus 7 is Tishri 1 (2012)
Maybe the Bride will leave earth the same day that Christ came to the earth.
Just some thoughts to pass along if they make any since. Thanks

My reply

I appreciate any thoughts on this. Who knows what might turn up if we all put our minds to it?

My copy of the Official Hebrew Calendar for 5765/66 has Tishri 1, the Feast of Trumpets, on Wednesday, October 4, 2005. Elul 1 is Monday, Sept. 5. Since the Hebrew calendar is very accurate in the long run, I don't think we should throw it off by a whole month now. All that was necessary was to have Abib Barley on Firstfruits, which we did.

Since the Pre-Wrath Rapture of Rev. 7:14 is on Tishri 1, the Pre-Wrath Rapture might be on Tishri 1 seven years later--except for one thing. That wouldn't allow the Great Tribulation to be shortened. In Mt. 24:21,22, Jesus said, "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." Agape

Incoming e-mail, Question

After you are saved:
If the Holy Spirit convicts you of sin that is covered by the Law of Moses including the 10 Commandments then that would mean that these still apply to us, correct or not?

(We know that many of the 613 Laws of Moses donít apply because our Messiah is our once for all sacrifice and we are not Jewish people living in Israel.)

Many Christians are taught different on this. Some say that we are under grace and no laws apply while others say that they stll apply. Many thanks

My reply

This is the way I understand it.

> > After you are saved:
> > If the Holy Spirit convicts you of sin that is covered by the Law of Moses including the 10 Commandments then that would mean that these still apply to us, correct or not?

WE ARE HEIRS ACCORDING TO GOD'S PROMISE, NOT HEIRS ACCORDING TO THE LAW. Gal. 3:24,25,29 says, "the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But AFTER THAT FAITH IS COME, WE ARE NO LONGER UNDER A SCHOOLMASTER....And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Gal. 3:17,18 is clear. It says, "And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise."

No one was ever saved by obeying the Law. Everyone sinned and fell short. However, the Law showed us what sin is. It still does. When we break the Law, we need to confess that sin to bring it under the blood of Christ. That is not because we need it to be saved, but because we need it to gain rewards, one of which is to be caught up to Heaven before the Tribulation.

By the Pre-Wrath Rapture, the Tribulation saints have learned this lessen. Rev. 7:14 says, "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

> > Some say that we are under grace and no laws apply while others say that they stll apply.

We are saved by grace plus nothing, but we still know what sin is because of the Commandments. If we take the name of the Lord in vain, that is sin. If we believe in Christ, yet pile up sins, we are foolish virgins. Do you know what happens to foolish virgins? Mt. 25:10 shows that they are left behind at the first Rapture, the Pre-Trib Rapture. Why? for chastening. Believers are never to be chastened in Heaven, so they are chastened here on Earth. Rev. 3:19 says, "As many as I love, I rebuke and CHASTEN: be zealous therefore, and REPENT."

In the Preview of the Rapture in Rev. 1, verse 16 shows us that "out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword." Jesus does not have this sword at the Rapture for nothing. In his message to the church in Pergamos, he said, "REPENT, OR ELSE I will come unto thee quickly (he comes quickly at the Rapture (2:5 and 22:20), and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth" (Rev. 2:16).

Why is this sword necessary at the Rapture? In Luke 12:46, Jesus told us that "The lord of that servant (the foolish believer) will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off, i.e., with the sword of his mouth), and will appoint him his portion (the shortened Tribulation) with the UNBELIEVERS." Mt. 24:51 adds, "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

We need to be worthy to escape the chastening of the Tribulation. In Luke 21:34-36, Jesus said, "take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare (trap) shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

I John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Agape

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Updated 6-21-05