Pro and Con 1222

Posted 7-4-05

Incoming e-mail, Re: 4 of July coming early to California, Arizona

http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/hill070105.html

Peashooting a Comet, BY RICHARD L. HILL

My reply

Thanks. What a picture. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: A 330 million dollar Wow?

http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/space/07/04/deep.impact/index.html

Now what? Can man now think he can be safe from a future comet with his ability to shoot them down? After all, didn't man design and build a unsinkable ship named the Titanic? Oh well, what is 330 million dollars anyway, we had to know if we could it the thing and find out if it was ice or not, eh? Have a very less independent day as we celebrate Independent Day. Thank God our real found liberty is in the person of Jesus, The Christ! Agape

My reply

Happy 4th.

The expensive pictures of the pockmarked comet Tempel 1 are interesting, and that technology might help man try to divert an incoming asteroid. They were able to aim and shoot accurately this time. At the speeds involved, that is quite an achievement.

I haven't heard yet whether Tempel 1 is mainly ice or not. Let me know if you hear. Agape
--- Deep Impact
Your First Look Inside a Comet
http://deepimpact.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html

Evacuation Av 10 (August 15)

Terror tunnels latest threat to Jewish Gaza
Discovery this week has residents fearing for their lives
By Aaron Klein, 6-29-05
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=45036

The Israeli Defense Forces on Monday found a tunnel – the first of its kind – leading from the nearby Palestinian neighborhood of Khan Yunis into the periphery of Neve Delakim, the largest Gaza Jewish neighborhood slated for evacuation Aug. 15.

On Five Doves site: Arlene (1 July 2005) "TRUMPETS"

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/july2005/arlene71.htm

> > When John turns he sees the Lord among the candlesticks, telling John to address letters to the churches, and send them to the churches. John has not been called up to heaven yet, with the “come up hither”, so this scene is on the earth, the churches being addressed by the Lord, JUST PRIOR TO THE RAPTURE. Christ is dressed in the garment of a “judge” (girdle around the paps, and feet like bronze), so this is a judgment scene. He is going to judge the churches, and warn them of the things which they fall behind in observing.

The Revelation of Jesus Christ is like a dramatic production. Just as our movie directors always do, Jesus gave it a Preview of coming attractions. Then, he started at the beginning--when the Rapture was "at hand." It is "at hand" in both the first and last chapters (1:3 and 22:10). The setting is when the Rapture is at hand. When Jesus signs off in the last chapter, he says he will come quickly. He comes quickly at the Rapture (2:5; 3:11).

I think Rev. 1:10f is the Preview of the Rapture. In it, John was on Patmos, which means mortal. Then when he heard Christ's voice like a trumpet, he was suddenly in the spirit and in Heaven. Since Christ does not return to Earth until the Second Advent, He was in Heaven with the 7 churches around him in the Preview of the Rapture.

His garment and golden girdle means that he was attired as a King/priest. Gold is a symbol of deity too. Since judgment starts at the house of God, he has feet like fine brass and a sharp twoedged sword coming out of his mouth to cut off the foolish Laodicean virgins, as in Luke 12:46 and Mt. 24:51.

In Rev. 1:19, Jesus said, "Write the things which thou hast seen (before the Rapture, the 7 churches in Asia, meaning muddy, i.e., on Earth), and THE THINGS WHICH ARE (AT THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE), and the things which shall be hereafter" (after the Rapture).

John proceeded to do just that. He wrote Jesus' messages to the 7 churches in Asia that he had seen. Next, he wrote of the things which ARE at the Rapture (Rev. 4 and 5). With Rev. 6, he began to write of the things that would come "hereafter" the Rapture. Agape

President of the World: Bill Clinton's Dream

By J.R. Church
http://www.prophecyinthenews.com/pdfs2/july2005-01a.pdf

Here are my notes I took as I read the article.

There have been 7 Secretary Generals of the UN:
Trygve Lie, 1946-53
Dag Hammarskjold, 1953-61
U Thant, 1962-71
Kurt Waldhelm, 1972-81
Javier Perez de Cuellar, 1982-91
Boutros Boutros-Ghali, 1992-96
Kofi Annan, 1997-

Clinton wants to be President of the World, not Secretary General of the UN. He is staging an international conference on UN in Sept. at the UN in NY. In his campaign, he has visited 22 nations and met with more than 30 current or former heads of state.

His dream themes:
Fighting poverty
Religious conflict
Environmental degradation

These are global problems concocted by the New World Order insiders to establish World Government.

Incoming e-mail, Re: Days Being Shortened

I know that you have your mind set on the Great Tribulation being shortened, but the Bible does not say that the "great tribulation" is shortened. It says that the days will be shortened. We are all now in our summertime and the days are longer. There is not a larger number of days now, just that the daylight hours are longer and therefore the days are longer. We also know that near the end of the tribulation the days will be shortened when the sun, moon and stars will not give their light. The number of days should still be the same for God in my view for God is not the author of confusion. You said in your recent Pro-Con

"If both the Pre-Trib and Pre-Wrath Raptures take place 7 years apart on the Feast of Trumpets, how could the Great Tribulation be shortened?"

Please Marilyn, even if you don't believe it, would you run a side by side comparison of these two views. Days being shortened vs. tribulation years being shortened. Thank you for all your hard work and for keeping us all looking for Him in every way that we can.

My reply

> > the Bible does not say that the "great tribulation" is shortened. It says that the days will be shortened.

I can't make a case for the literal 24-hour days being shortened. I have to take it that the block of days, i.e., "THOSE DAYS" [plural] of the Great Tribulation will be shortened. It is the "SHORT SPACE" of Rev. 17:10. It says, "there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue A SHORT SPACE." The SHORT SPACE is the Great Tribulation. It will be shortened or no flesh would be saved.

Mat 24:15-22 says, "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) [that is the begining of the Great Tribulation period] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then [following the abomination of desolation] shall be GREAT TRIBULATION (the 1260 days of Rev. 12:6], such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except THOSE DAYS [those of the GREAT TRIBULATION] should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake THOSE DAYS [those of the GREAT TRIBULATION] shall be shortened."

Mar 13:14-20 says, "when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house: And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment. But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in THOSE DAYS [of the Great Tribulation]! And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter. For in THOSE DAYS [of the Great Tribulation] shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be. And except that the Lord had shortened THOSE DAYS [of the Great Tribulation], no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days" (i.e., THOSE DAYS of the Great Tribulation).

Rev. 12:6 tells us the length of THOSE DAYS. It says, "the woman [Israel] fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there A THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED AND THREESCORE DAYS." The 1260-day Great Tribulation is the last half of the Seventieth Week of Daniel [Dan. 9:27].

Hemera, translated "days" can mean a 24-hour day, or figuratively, a period (defined more or less clearly by the context), an age, while, or years.

Rom. 9:27,28 says "A SHORT WORK," not a short day: "Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved: For he will finish THE WORK, and CUT IT SHORT in righteousness: because A SHORT WORK will the Lord make upon the earth."

Rev 12:12 says, "Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them [Mid-Trib]. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea [during the GREAT TRIBULATION]! for the devil is come down unto you [Mid-Trib], having great wrath, because he knoweth that HE HATH BUT A SHORT TIME [kairos, while]."

Rom 9:28 says, "he will finish THE WORK, AND CUT IT SHORT in righteousness: because A SHORT WORK will the Lord make upon the earth." Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: 14000-DAY GENERATION AND ROSH HASHANAH 2005

Revelation 3:3 (KJV) “Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee.”

Deuteronomy 32:7 (KJV)
Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations: ask thy father, and he will shew thee;

14000-DAY GENERATION AND ROSH HASHANAH 2005
by Stuart Cobb, scobbs@nc.rr.com

I truly believe God has given His Church a prophetic timeline which is not difficult to discern. I believe God wants to show His Church what He will do and to expect the closing of the “Church Age” with the Rapture of the Church on Rosh-Hashana 2005.

I believe God established a 14000 day generation with the Wilderness Generation and repeated the 14000 day generation with the generation that rejected Jesus as Messiah.

I believe if we properly understand the 14000 day timeline it should be no more difficult to discern that Rosh-Hashana 2005 is the date of the Church Rapture as it was for the “Jewish religious authorities “ to discern the date from Daniel’s prophesy that Jesus the Messiah was to ride into Jerusalem on April 6, 32 AD(Palm Sunday).

It is fascinating that the three most important generations in the history of the Jewish people are exactly 14000 days. (38.8 Jewish Years or 2000 Jewish weeks).

1. The Wilderness generation which is exactly 14000 days

2. The generation which rejected Jesus as the Messiah to the destruction of Jerusalem In 70AD was exactly 14000 days

3. The Last Generation which saw the recapture of Jerusalem on June 6, 1967 to Rosh-Hashana 2005 is exactly 14000 days

The Jewish Calander is based on a 360 day year consisting of 12 months.

GOD ESTABLISHES A 14000 DAY GENERATION

After the Israelites passed thru the Red Sea, God commanded Moses to number the men of the congregation who were 20 years of age and older. The numbering of the men 20 and over established who was of fighting age and the generation that was accountable to God. Once the men were numbered, the wilderness journey began. In Numbers 10:11 we read the numbered accountable generation of Israelites left Sinai on the 20th day of the 2nd month of the 2nd year – (Calendar Year = 360 days of 12 months) We add 30 plus 20 plus 360 = 410 Days . When the last man of the cursed generation died, God commanded that the congregation cross into the Promised Land. In Joshua 4:19 the Israelites entered the Promised Land on the 10th day of the 1st month of the 41st year (for 41st year see Dt 1:3.) Calendar Year 360 x 40 = 14400 + 10 = 14410. When we subtract the 410 days from the 14410 days we get exactly 14000 days for the numbered accountable, cursed generation! The Israelites were commanded by God to enter the Promised Land the very day the last man of the cursed, numbered generation died. Exactly 14000 days from when the numbered generation set out into the Wilderness!

Linking the 14000 day Generation Timeline to Daniels Prophesy about Jesus the Messiah Daniel 9:25 Know therefore and discern, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the anointed one, the prince, shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: it shall be built again, with street and moat, even in troublous times. Daniel 9:26 And after the threescore and two weeks shall the anointed one be cut off, and shall have nothing: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and even unto the end shall be war; desolations are determined.

Sir Robert Anderson wrote the Christian classic, “The Coming Prince” and determined the dates that fulfilled Daniel’s prophesies.

March 15, 444 BC (edict to rebuild Jerusalem by Artaxerxes) 69 weeks of years x 7 = 483 years = 173880 days March 15, 444BC plus 173880 days is April 6, 32 AD Palm Sunday Jesus rides into Jerusalem April 6, 32 AD Palm Sunday

From the very day Daniel prophesized Jesus would ride into Jerusalem on April 6, 32 AD to the destruction of Jerusalem on August 5, 70AD was exactly a 14000 day generation.

Jesus rides into Jerusalem April 6, 32 AD Palm Sunday
Destruction of Jerusalem and the temple on August 5, 70 AD
Time interval is 14000 days (2000 weeks or 38.8 Jewish years)

Jesus says in Luke 21:24 “and they will fall by the edge of the sword, and will be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled under foot by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled……“ In Luke 21:32 Jesus says 32"Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all things take place. “

To me personally, Luke 21: 24 is the key verse in scripture which indicates the prophetic event for the Final 14000 day generation. Just as Jesus prophesized, Jerusalem was recaptured by the Jews on June 6, 1967. Daniel’s prophesy for the coming of Jesus the Messiah centered on the decree to rebuild Jerusalem. Jesus gave us the prophesy in Luke 21:24 for the destruction of Jerusalem in His generation and the recapture of Jerusalem in the Last Days. I believe the recapture of Jerusalem by the Jews on June 6, 1967 was the prophetic event which ended the “Times of the Gentiles.” I believe God started the 14000 day prophetic generation clock just like He had in place with the 14000 day Wilderness Generation and the Generation which rejected Jesus as the Jewish Messiah. I believe on June 6, 1967, God began the last 14000 day generation in which the Church Age would draw to a close and the fullness of the Gentiles would come to Jesus before the Rapture of the Churh

In June of 1967, the combined armies of the middle east attacked Israel to completely destroy Israel. Not only did God deliver Israel in a mighty victory, God caused Israel recaptured Jerusalem on June 6, 1967

From the Date Jerusalem was recaptured on June 6, 1967 to Rosh-Hashana 2005 is exactly a 14000 day Generation. (June 6, 1967 to October 3-4 2005)

Israel recaptures Jerusalem on June 6, 1967
to Rosh Hashanah October 5, 2005
Time interval is 14000 days or 2000 weeks.
14000 days or 38.8 Jewish Years ( 360 days/yr)

John Chapter 5 and the 38 Years Without Healing

I believe we are given another confirmation of the 38 year or 14000 day timeline in John 5. I believe John 5 gives us a picture of the spiritual awakening which will take place after the Rapture.

3 In these lay a great multitude of impotent folk, of blind, halt, withered, waiting for the moving of the water.

I believe verse 3 is a perfect picture of Israel’s spiritual condition today.

5And a certain man was there, which had an infirmity thirty and eight years.
I believe Verse 5 is a picture of Israel’s spiritual condition in this last 14000 day or 38.8 generation from June 6, 1967 just like the Wilderness Generation and the Generation which rejected Jesus as the Messiah
6When Jesus saw him lie, and knew that he had been now a long time in that case, he saith unto him, Wilt thou be made whole?
7The impotent man answered him, Sir, I have no man, when the water is troubled, to put me into the pool: but while I am coming, another steppeth down before me.
8Jesus saith unto him, Rise, take up thy bed, and walk.

I believe the Church being raptured on Rosh-Hashana 2005 is not a fulfillment of the Jewish Feast but is a consequence of the fulfillment itself. The Rapture of the Church on Rosh-Hashana 2005 would be a powerful testimony to the Jews which will bring them to a place of spiritually mourning and assist the Tribulation Jews in understanding Jesus is the true Messiah. Jews believe that on Rosh-Hashana, God judges the world. Because Christians have been judged already by our identification with Jesus at the cross, we are raptured. The unbelieving nations and the regathered Jews are left to endure the Tribulation or 7 years of Jacob’s Trouble.

Your brother in Christ Jesus, Stuart
---
Yom Teruah (Rosh Ha Shanna, Feast of Trumpets)
By Greg Killian

Originally the New Moon was not fixed by astronomical calculations, but was solemnly proclaimed after witnesses had testified to the reappearance of the crescent of the moon. On the 30th of each month, the members of the High Court assembled in a courtyard in Jerusalem, named Beit Ya'azek, where they waited to receive the testimony of two reliable witnesses; they then sanctified the New Moon. If the moon's crescent was not seen on the 30th day, the New Moon was automatically celebrated on the 31st day. This, therefore, is a festival that, "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father". Yom Teruah

Yom Teruah is the ONLY festival (from the Hebrew 'moed' literally appointment) that we do not know the day or the hour in which to keep it. Therefore, we have to be on the alert, we have to be be awake, and we have to be watching for it. Do you want to be asleep when Yahshua the King returns?

I Thessalonians 5:1-11 Now, brothers, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, For you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, "Peace and safety," destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you, brothers, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.

So, the righteous are not to be surprised by that day. This implies that the righteous may not know the year, but, they will know that he will return on Yom Teruah. They will, therefore, be looking for their Messiah on the 30th and the 31st day of the month of Elul.

My reply

Thanks for sharing your thoughts with me.

> > The Jewish Calander is based on a 360 day year consisting of 12 months.

Actually, the Jewish Calendar has six types of years, none of which has 360 days. The types are Deficient (353 days), Normal (354 days), Full (355 days), Deficient Leap Year (383 days), Normal Leap Year (384 days), and Full Leap Year (385 days). (Jewish Calendar Mystery Dispelled, by George Zinberg). The actual average is 369 days. Months are either 29 or 30 days.

Our Gregorian Calendar has four 30-day months (September, April, June and November). All the rest have 31 days except February, which can be either 28 or 29 days. Even so, banks assume that all months have 30 days to make estimating interest easier. It is an industry custom. Twelve 30-day months is 360 days. This is used for convenience, not reality. It is an approximation. Actually, our years are 365 or 366 days.

> > I believe if we properly understand the 14000 day timeline it should be no more difficult to discern that Rosh-Hashana 2005 is the date of the Church Rapture as it was for the “Jewish religious authorities “ to discern the date from Daniel’s prophesy that Jesus the Messiah was to ride into Jerusalem on April 6, 32 AD(Palm Sunday).

I haven't been able to accept this middle timeline, because I am convinced that Jesus was Crucified on Nisan 13, the Preparation of the Passover, April 6, 30 AD. Herod began building the temple in the Hebrew 3742 (BC 20/19). Forty-six years later (John 2:20) was the first Passover of Jesus' ministry, in 3787 (27 AD).
---
Herod's Temple
The Construction of the Temple
http://www.bible-history.com/jewishtemple/JEWISH_TEMPLEHerods_Temple00000006.htm

...The work of rebuilding the Temple began in 19 BC which was the 18th year of King Herod’s reign. There were 10,000 skilled laborers and according to Josephus (Ant. 15.11.2) the laity could not enter certain parts of the building, therefore 1000 Levites were specially trained as builders and masons, and carried out their work so efficiently and carefully that at no time was there any interruption in the sacrifices and other services. The work was started by leveling larger portions of the Temple Mount, so that the new building might be erected on a broader base. It was also made much taller, so that the white stone gleamed in the bright Palestinian sun and could be seen from miles away....
---
THE TREASURES OF THE HOUSE OF THE LORD
by Lambert Dolphin
http://www.templemount.org/TMTRS.html

...The Roman ruler Herod decided to completely rebuild and enlarge the Second Temple beginning in his 18th year of reign (c20 BC)...
---
> > Sir Robert Anderson wrote the Christian classic, “The Coming Prince” and determined the dates that fulfilled Daniel’s prophesies.
> > March 15, 444 BC (edict to rebuild Jerusalem by Artaxerxes)
69 weeks of years x 7 = 483 years = 173880 days
March 15, 444BC plus 173880 days is April 6, 32 AD Palm Sunday
Jesus rides into Jerusalem April 6, 32 AD Palm Sunday

I disagree with Sir Robert Anderson, and agree with Martin Anstey, who wrote "The Romance of Bible Chronology."

> > 1. The Wilderness generation which is exactly 14000 days
> > 2. The generation which rejected Jesus as the Messiah to the destruction of Jerusalem In 70AD was exactly 14000 days
> > 3. The Last Generation which saw the recapture of Jerusalem on June 6, 1967 to Rosh-Hashana 2005 is exactly 14000 days

Even though I can't go along with the 2nd period, the first and third 14,000-day periods are very interesting. What days did you start and end with in the first period? Did you use inclusive reckoning in either period? If the Rapture doesn't take place on Av 10 (when both temples went up in smoke), I'll be looking at the Feast of Trumpets. I think the Pre-Wrath Rapture will take place before noon (Zeph. 2:3-5) on the Feast of Trumpets that is the Day of God's Wrath. However, if the Pre-Trib Rapture would be on Trumpets also, how could the Great Tribulation be shortened? I don't really expect the 24-hour days to be shortened. Food for thought. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Barley was in the Ear

Have you ever thought of how the story of the Exodus seems to parallel the book of Revelation? I find it especially amazing that Exodus chapters 8, 9, and 10 have over 20 references to set time periods, for example --
tomorrow
3 days journey
a set time
at this time
tomorrow about this time
AND REMARKABLY the phrases in Exodus 9:31 "barley (was) in the ear" and "the flax was boiled"

It was important for our Lord to let us know this season for the Exodus. Could this mention of barley and flax have anything to do with the 2 raptures?

My reply

Certainly, but the barley harvest is over for this year. Flax was harvested in the spring, but I don't know if the harvest extended into the summer or not. If you find out, please let me know. Agape

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