Pro and Con 1226

Posted 7-24-05

APOD: A Nearby Supernova in M51

One of the nearest supernovas of recent years was discovered late last month in the bright nearby galaxy M51...The supernova, discovered originally by Wolfgang Kloehr and now dubbed 2005cs, is still near its maximum brightness and visible with a telescope toward the constellation of the Hunting Dogs (Canes Venatici)....

My PS, Re: Judgment Seat of Christ and Feast of Trumpets

....On a subject as hard as this, people are bound to disagree. That is why it is good to discuss the pro and cons. We can both learn from the other's research.

Here are some of my thoughts today:

I Peter 5:4 sounds like believers will receive the crown of glory when the Sign of the Son of Man is seen in the sky. It says, "WHEN THE CHIEF SHEPHERD SHALL APPEAR, YE SHALL RECEIVE A CROWN OF GLORY that fadeth not away." Jesus will APPEAR when the Sign of the Son of Man is seen in the sky on the Day of God's Wrath.

Rom 2:5-8 shows that we shall receive immortality when we are changed at the time of the Pre-Wrath Rapture, when the Body of Christ is completed in Heaven just before the wrath of God hits Earth. It says, "But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against THE DAY OF WRATH AND REVELATION OF THE RIGHTEOUS JUDGMENT OF GOD; WHO WILL RENDER TO EVERY MAN ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and IMMORTALITY, eternal life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and WRATH".

I Cor. 15:51-54 says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP (i.e., at the Pre-Wrath Rapture): for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and WE SHALL BE CHANGED. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and THIS MORTAL MUST PUT ON IMMORTALITY. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption (at either Rapture, I Cor. 15:42), and this mortal shall have put on immortality (at the 2nd Rapture), then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory."

At the time of the Pre-Wrath Rapture, Rev. 14:2 says, "And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of A GREAT THUNDER." That great thunder is "THE LAST TRUMP" of I Cor. 15:52.

Psa. 9:7 says, "the LORD shall endure for ever: HE HATH PREPARED HIS THRONE FOR JUDGMENT."

Christ's millennial government will be established with judgment. Isa 9:6,7 says, "unto us a child is born (inheriting his human nature from his mother), unto us a son is given (inheriting his deity from his Father): and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon HIS KINGDOM, to order it, and TO ESTABLISH IT WITH JUDGMENT and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this."

I think the time of the Judgment Seat of Christ is the Day of God's Wrath. All saints, great and small will be given their rewards that day. They are in Heaven receiving their rewards at the same time that the wrath of God is hitting unbelievers on Earth. Rev. 11:18 says, "the nations were angry, and THY WRATH IS COME, AND THE TIME OF THE DEAD, THAT THEY SHOULD BE JUDGED, AND THAT THOU SHOULDEST GIVE REWARD UNTO THEY SERVANTS the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

Rev 14:14-19 shows that the Pre-Wrath Rapture happens just before God's Wrath hits Earth. It says, "I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and THE EARTH WAS REAPED (i.e., at the Pre-Wrath Rapture). And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of THE WRATH OF GOD."

1Pe 4:17 says, "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?"

1Co 6:2 says, "Do ye not know that THE SAINTS SHALL JUDGE THE WORLD?"

Psa. 149:1,5-9 says, "Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a NEW SONG (as in Rev. 5:9, 14:3), and his praise in the congregation of saints....Let the saints be joyful in glory (i.e., in Heaven): let them sing aloud upon their beds. Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a twoedged sword in their hand; To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people; To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron; To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the LORD."

Joel 2:15-18 says, "Blow the trumpet in Zion (i.e., on the Feast of Trumpets), sanctify a fast (upcoming Day of Atonement), call a solemn assembly ('the general assembly" in Heaven, Heb. 12:23): Gather the people, sanctify the congregation, assemble the elders, gather the children, and those that suck the breasts: let the bridegroom (Christ) go forth of his chamber, and the bride (Bride of Christ) out of her closet (chu^ppa^h, canopy, chamber). Let the priests, the ministers of the LORD, weep between the porch and the altar, and LET THEM SAY, SPARE THY PEOPLE, O LORD, and give not thine heritage to reproach, that the heathen should rule over them: wherefore should they say among the people, Where is their God? Then will the LORD be jealous for his land, and pity his people."

The Marriage of the Lamb takes place on this same day. Joel 2:16 in the Geneva Bible says, "Gather the people: sanctifie the congregation, gather the elders: assemble the children, & those that sucke the breastes: let the bridegrome go forth of his chamber, and the bride out of her BRIDE CHAMBER."

Joel 2:23 says, "Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month." At the first advent, he came as the former rain on Tishri 1, first month of the Civil Year. He will be seen in the Sign of the Son of Man on Tishri 1, and He will return as the latter rain on Nisan 1, first month of the Regnal and Sacred Year. There will be 7 months between the last two dates (Eze. 39:12,13). Therefore, the year of the Second Advent is a Leap Year with the 13th month.

It looks like the order of events in Heaven on the first day of Jesus' millennial kingdom is:

(1) The gathering of all saints from Heaven and Earth (the Pre-Wrath Rapture) to the General Assembly in Heaven
(2) Christ's Coronation
(3) The Judgment Seat of Christ
(4) The Marriage of the Lamb
(5) The Marriage Supper of the Lamb

Rev 19:1-9 says, "And after these things I heard a great voice of much people in heaven, saying, Alleluia; Salvation, and glory, and honour, and power, unto the Lord our God: For true and righteous are his judgments: for HE HATH JUDGED the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and hath avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia. And a voice came out of the throne, saying, Praise our God, all ye his servants, and ye that fear him, both small and great. And I heard as it were the voice of a great multitude, and as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of mighty thunderings, saying, Alleluia: for THE LORD GOD OMNIPOTENT REIGNETH. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for THE MARRIAGE OF THE LAMB is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto THE MARRIAGE SUPPER OF THE LAMB. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God."

Do you agree? I value your input. These things take a lot of thought and research. People that don't understand that there is a second Rapture are often thrown off in figuring the time of the Judgment Seat of Christ. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: 40 Years

Forty years is considered a time of testing when we study the Bible. From the unification of Jerusalem in June of 1967 would you consider an event to trigger the advent of the tribulation period in 2007 or before???

Also would you consider a 360 day Biblical year instead of a solar year from 1967?? This would bring us to November of 2006.

If you have time would you share your views with me on these thoughts. I would like to hear from you. Sincerely

My reply

It's good to hear from you again.

> > Forty years is considered a time of testing when we study the Bible. From the unification of Jerusalem in June of 1967 would you consider an event to trigger the advent of the tribulation period in 2007 or before???

Sure. Just yesterday, someone reminded me that there were 2 years that Joseph spent in prison before the 7 good years and 7 bad years began. Since I think 5758 (1997/1998) was the 6000th year since Adam was cast out of Eden, I added 2 years and then 7 years. That would bring us to 5767 (2006/2007) for the start of the Tribulation. Av 10 would be July 25, 2007. Tishri 1, 5768, will be Sept. 13, 2007.

An event that would start the Tribulation would be to strengthen the covenant of Dan. 9:27.

Our '67 to the Jewish '67 (2007) is 40 years. Hmmm. Is there a good reason for that difference?

> > Also would you consider a 360 day Biblical year instead of a solar year from 1967?? This would bring us to November of 2006.

Yes. 360 x 40 years = 14,400 days.

Time and Date says,
"From date: Wednesday, June 5, 1967
"Added 14,400 days
"Resulting date: Tuesday, November 7, 2006"
That is Cheshvan 16, 5767, an interesting date. Noah entered the Ark on Cheshvan 17.

I think a 30-day month and a 360-day year are for quick estimates, but I'm not against looking at things like this to see if anything adds up. Someone whose email I posted on Pro and Con 2222 said, "From the Date Jerusalem was recaptured on June 6, 1967 to Rosh-Hashana 2005 is exactly a 14000 day Generation. (June 6, 1967 to October 3-4 2005)."

Time and Date says, "From and including: Monday, June 5, 1967 "To, but not including : Monday, October 3, 2005

"It is 14,000 days from the start date to the end date, but not including the end date

"Or 38 years, 3 months, 28 days excluding the end date."

Tishri 1, Feast of Trumpets, is Tuesday, October 4, 2005. 14,000 days divided by 360 = 38.8888 years. It was 38 years from the Provacation to the entry into the Promised Land.

From Iyar 26, 5727 (June 5, 1967) to Iyar 26, 5765 (June 4, 2005) is 38 years. Iyar 26 is when the spies went into the Promised Land. They returned with the huge bunch of grapes 40 days later, on Av 10, the actual date both temples went up in smoke.

Jer 52:12,13 says, "Now in the fifth month (AV/AB), in the TENTH DAY of the month, which was the nineteenth year of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, came Nebuzaradan, captain of the guard, which served the king of Babylon, into Jerusalem, And burned the house of the LORD, and the king's house; and all the houses of Jerusalem, and all the houses of the great men, burned he with fire

Josephus said the temple was burned in 70 AD on "the tenth day of the month Lous, [Ab,] upon which it was formerly burnt by the king of Babylon" (Wars. VI. IV. 5). ARE WE FACING A FINAL FORTY-DAY COUNTDOWN?

There are two Raptures, two Days of the Son of Man. Luke 17:22 mentions "ONE OF THE DAYS OF THE SON OF MAN." That Day of the Son of Man is the first Rapture. The other Day of the Son of Man is the second Rapture. Of that day, Jesus said, "then shall appear the SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN in heaven" (Mt. 24:30).

The first Day of the Son of Man, the Pre-Trib Rapture, is as the days of Noah. On the first day, rain began to fall. After FORTY DAYS of rain, the Ark ascended. Gen. 7:17 says, "the flood was FORTY DAYS upon the earth, and the waters increased, and BARE UP THE ARK, AND IT WAS LIFT UP ABOVE THE EARTH." Do these FORTY DAYS have an application in our days?

In Noah's day, rain fell FORTY DAYS. Then THE ARK ROSE UP FROM THE EARTH. In Lot's day, Lot was removed from Sodom and FIRE FELL THAT SAME DAY. They are two separate events. The FORTY DAYS prior to Noah's Ark floating upward applies only to the first event.

The second Day of the Son of Man, the Pre-Wrath Rapture, is as the days of Lot. Just prior to Noah's entering the Ark, men married wives (Luke 17:27). Nothing about marriage is mentioned concerning the days prior to Lot's being taken out of Sodom. Luke 17:28,29 says, "they did eat, they drank, they bought and sold, they planted, they builded; But the SAME DAY that Lot went out of Sodom IT RAINED FIRE AND BRIMSTONE FROM HEAVEN, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed." He will be revealed when the Sign of the Son of Man is seen in the sky just prior to the Wrath of God hitting unbelievers left on Earth. Noah's wife was raised up alive. Lot's wife didn't make it.

Rev. 6:14-17 says, "the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island was moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us,and hide us from the FACE OF HIM THAT SITTETH ON THE THRONE (in the Sign of the Son of Man seen in the sky), AND FROM THE WRATH OF THE LAMB. For the great DAY OF HIS WRATH (the Feast of Trumpets) IS COME; and who shall be able to stand?"

Besides the 40 days of rain in Noah's day, there is another forty-day period to consider. The spies Moses sent into the Promised Land came back FORTY DAYS LATER bearing "ONE CLUSTER OF GRAPES". Nu. 13:20-25 says, "Now the time was the time of the firstripe grapes. So they (the spies) went up, and searched the land from the wilderness of Zin unto Rehob, as men come to Hamath. And they ascended by the south, and came unto Hebron; where Ahiman, Sheshai, and Talmai, the children of Anak, were. (Now Hebron was built seven years before Zoan in Egypt.) And they came unto the brook of Eshcol, and cut down from thence a branch with one cluster of grapes, and they bare it between two upon a staff; and they brought of the pomegranates, and of the figs. The place was called the brook Eshcol, because of the cluster of grapes which the children of Israel cut down from thence. And they returned from searching of the land after FORTY DAYS."

Song of Solomon mentions GRAPES in connection with the Bride of Christ.

Song 2:10-15 "My beloved spake, and said unto me, Rise up, my love, my fair one, and come away. For, lo, the winter is past, the rain is over and gone; The flowers appear on the earth; the time of the singing of birds (birds is not in the original; I think it is the Bride singing the new song of Rev. 5:9) is come, and the voice of the turtle (lit., turtledove) is heard in our land; The fig tree putteth forth her green figs (Israel starting to show fruit, i.e., Messianic Jews), and the vines with the TENDER GRAPE give a good smell. ARISE, MY LOVE, MY FAIR ONE, AND COME AWAY. Take us the foxes, the little foxes, that spoil the vines: for our vines have TENDER GRAPES."

Song 7:7 speaks of 2 clusters of grapes, indicating the 2 raptures. It says, "This thy stature is like to a palm tree, and thy breasts to CLUSTERS OF GRAPES." This is the same as pictured in 2:17's, "my beloved, and be thou like a roe or a young hart upon the MOUNTAINS OF BETHER (which means SEPARATION)." At the 1st Rapture, the wise virgins are caught up to the heavenly mountain (kingdom), and the foolish virgins are left behind, separated. They will be among the Tribulation saints caught up at the 2nd Rapture.

There were FORTY DAYS from the time of the firstripe grapes to Av 10, when they took one bunch of grapes back to Moses and the Tabernacle, the house of God.

Hosea 2:9 "Therefore will I return, and take away my corn in the time thereof, and my wine in the season thereof."

Isa 18:5,6 says, "afore the harvest (i.e., before the vintage of Elul and Tishri), when the bud is perfect, and the sour grape is ripening in the flower (firststripe grapes), he shall both CUT OFF THE SPRIGS (i.e., having fruit) WITH PRUNING HOOKS, AND TAKE AWAY (i.e., rapture them, catch them up to Heaven) and cut down the branches (that have no fruit, like the foolish virgins?). THEY SHALL BE LEFT together unto the fowls of the mountains, and to the beasts (the Beast and False Prophet, Rev. 13) of the earth: and the fowls shall SUMMER UPON THEM, and all the beasts of the earth shall winter upon them."

Isa. 57:1-3 (LXX) says, "See how the just man has perished (abad, escaped), and no one lays it to heart: and RIGHTEOUS MEN ARE TAKEN AWAY (ACAPH, EVACUATED), and no one considers: for THE RIGHTEOUS HAS BEEN REMOVED OUT OF THE WAY OF INJUSTICE" (i.e., in the Tribulation).

Song of Sol. 2:10-13 (Stone Edition) says, "my Beloved (CHRIST) CALLED OUT AND SAID TO ME, "ARISE, MY LOVE (THE BRIDE OF CHRIST), MY FAIR ONE, AND GO FORTH. For the winter of bondage has passed, the deluge (RAIN, i.e., the latter rain of Nisan) of suffering is over and gone. THE RIGHTEOUS blossoms are seen in the land, THE TIME OF YOUR SONG (THE NEW SONG OF REV. 5:9, SUNG AFTER THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE) HAS ARRIVED, and the voice of your guide (turtledove, i.e., Christ) is heard in the land. The fig tree (Israel) has formed ITS FIRST SMALL FIGS (fruit, that is what the Lord has been waiting on; the 4th year of the parable of the barren fig tree in Luke 13:6-9 is over), READY FOR ASCENT (THE PRE-TRIB RAPTURE) TO THE TEMPLE (IN HEAVEN); the vines are in blossom, their fragrance declaring they are ready for libation. ARISE, MY BELOVED, MY FAIR ONE, AND GO FORTH!"

Song of Sol. 2:10-15 (LXX) says, "My kinsman (redeemer, i.e., Christ) answers, and says to me, RISE UP, COME (i.e., 'COME UP HITHER,' Rev. 4:1), my companion (the Bride of Christ), my fair one, my dove. For, behold, the winter is past, the rain is gone, it has departed (i.e., Nisan, time of the latter rain is over). The flowers are seen in the land; THE TIME OF PRUNING HAS ARRIVED (i.e., THE TIME OF THE RAPTURE AND THE CUTTING OFF OF THE FOOLISH LAODICEAN VIRGINS); the voice of the turtle-dove (Christ) has been heard in our land (i.e., saying 'Come up hither,' Rev. 4:1). The fig-tree (Israel) has put forth its young figs (fruit, i.e., the Messianic Jews), the vines put forth the tender grape (one bunch of the Bride group, i.e., the 1st of 2 Raptures), they yield a smell: ARISE, COME, my companion, my fair one, my dove; yea, COME. Thou art my dove, in the shelter of the rock (i.e., in Christ), near the wall: shew me thy face, and cause me to hear thy voice; for thy voice is sweet, and thy countenance is beautiful. Take us the little foxes that spoil the vines: for our vines put forth tender grapes."

Also, the spies went into the promised land at the time of the firstripe grapes, Sivan 30. They returned with a large bunch of grapes on Av 10 (inclusive reckoning because it is a 40-day block of time) at the end of forty days in the land.

Av 10 is when Solomon's temple was burned. Jer 52:12,13 says, "in the fifth month (Av), in the tenth day of the month, which was the nineteenth year of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, came Nebuzaradan, captain of the guard, which served the king of Babylon, into Jerusalem, And burned the house of the LORD". Later, in 70 AD, the fire was set on the temple grounds on Av 9, but burned in the temple proper on Av 10.

Isa. 18:5 says, "For AFORE THE HARVEST (at the vintage, Tishri 1, time of the 2nd Rapture, the Pre-Wrath Rapture), WHEN THE BUD IS PERFECT, AND THE SOUR GRAPE IS RIPENING IN THE FLOWER (i.e., in the spring), he shall both cut off the sprigs (i.e., ones with fruit) with pruning hooks, and TAKE AWAY (the wise virgins in the Pre-Trib Rapture) and cut down the branches" (i.e., cut off the foolish virgins with no fruit, Luke 12:46). Gal. 5:22 says, "the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith."

It is also the time when Song of Solomon 2:13 says, "THE VINES WITH THE TENDER GRAPE GIVE A GOOD SMELL. ARISE, MY LOVE, MY FAIR ONE, AND COME AWAY."

Song 7:6-9 might tie in. It speaks to the prince's daughter. "How fair and how pleasant art thou, O love, for delights! This thy stature is like to a palm tree, and thy breasts to clusters of grapes. I said, I will go up to the palm tree, I will take hold of the boughs thereof: now also thy breasts shall be as clusters of the vine, and the smell of thy nose like apples; And the roof of thy mouth like the best wine for my beloved, that goeth down sweetly, causing the lips of those that are asleep to speak."

I'm hoping for the Rapture August 15, 2005. That is Av 10, when the spies returned with a large bunch of grapes. They had entered the promised land at the time of the firstripe grapes. Av 10 is 40 days later. Agape to you both

Scientists confirm liquid water on early Earth


Research funded partly by NASA has confirmed the existence of liquid water on the Earth's surface more than 4 billion years ago.

Scientists have found that the Earth had formed patterns of crust formation, erosion and sediment recycling as early as 4.35 billion years ago. Their findings came during a study of zircon crystals formed during the earliest period of Earth's history, the Hadean Eon (4.5 billion to 4.0 billion years ago)....

Watson and Harrison devised a new method of determining the temperatures at which the rocks formed. The team extracted and examined more than 50,000 zircons, crystals about the width of a human hair, which have been exposed through natural erosion in the Jack Hills. From the 50,000 zircons, only a couple of hundred were older than 4.2 billion years. Measuring the temperature at which the rocks melt gives an indication of the conditions in which they formed.

"Rocks formed as a result of the thermal energy from meteorite impacts would be bone dry and melt at greater than 900 degrees Celsius," said Harrison. "In contrast, our study has found that Hadean rocks melted at a consistent average temperature of 690 degrees Celsius. Water, which is a very powerful catalyst, must have been present in very large amounts for rocks to melt at such a relatively low temperature."

This discovery supports the proposal by Harrison's group four years earlier that a heavy oxygen isotope signature in the Hadean zircons is evidence for liquid water at or near the Earth's surface by 4.3 billion years ago.


By Gil Marks

In Egypt, agriculture was based around the annual fluctuations of the Nile. Aklet, the season of inundation, began around July 19, by which time all crops (including flax) had to be gathered.

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