Pro and Con 1228

Posted 7-30-05

"follow up on August 17th warning"

Frank R Molver (25 July 2005)
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/july2005/frankm725-2.htm

My reply to incoming email, Re: MARS SPECTACULAR

Mar's closest encounter was Aug. 27, 2003.
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HubbleSite - Mars: Closest Encounter - 8/27/2003
Hubble snapped these photos as the red planet was making its closest approach...
http://hubblesite.org/newscenter/newsdesk/archive/releases/2003/22/
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http://urbanlegends.about.com/library/bl_mars_encounter.htm
Comments: True! Space expert Nick Greene writes: "August of 2003 is a special time for scientists and amateur astronomers. Our red neighbor, Mars will move closer than it’s been in 50,000 years. On August 27, 2003, the 'red planet' will be less than 55.76 million kilometers (34.65 million miles) away from the Earth."...

2005 Update: In May 2005 this same message began circulating anew. Though clearly the same "once in a lifetime" celestial event can't occur again, whoever recycled the email probably did so because astronomers have announced that the orbits of the Earth and Mars will draw closer than usual in October 2005 — just not quite as close as in 2003. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Secrets hidden within the dimentions of the Earth

From: Robert L Ware

Subject: Secrets hidden within the dimensions of the Earth
My calculations are based upon these statistics:

Circumference of Earth at the Equator > 24,902 miles
Circumference of Earth at the Poles > 24,860 miles
Surface rotation speed at the Equator > 1038 MPH (24,902 miles / 24 hours in a day).
Surface rotation speeds reduce the further you go north (or south) of the Equator.

There are 60 minutes in one degree. There are 90 latitudinal lines from the Equator to each Pole. 90 degrees x 60 minutes equals 5400 total minutes. Counting the starting point, there are 5401 points along each 90-degree arc from the Equator to each Pole. The center number of 5401 is 2701 which is the gematria of Genesis 1:1 (“In the beginning created God the Heavens and the Earth.”). The gematria of the center Hebrew word of Genesis 1:1 is 401. The Tropic of Cancer and the Tropic of Capricorn lie 23 degrees and 16 minutes north and south of the Equator. The circumference of the Earth at these latitudes is 57 x 401 miles. There are 7 Hebrew words in Genesis 1:1. 7 circles of equal diameter will fit inside of one circle. Place 7 of these circles within another all encompassing circle and you will have 57 total circles. 57 equals 3 x 19. There are 19 years in each Jewish calendar cycle.

The sum of the 6 key points of the Prime Cross plus all 12 of their placeholders within the Prime Cube and the Prime List is 3590. The average value of the three points that make up each vertical and horizontal bar of the Prime cross is 1441. 9/11/2001 was the 1441st day of the current 19-year Jewish calendar cycle. 9/11/2001 was Gregorian day number 2081 (1/1/1996 to 9/11/2001 = 2081 inclusive days). A Star of David pattern divides a circle into 6 equal arcs. Go 3590 minutes north, or south, latitude and the circumference of the Earth at these latitudes equals 6 x 2081 miles. In a right triangle with angles equal to: 90, 60 and 30 degrees the length of the side opposite the 30 degree angle will equal exactly ½ of the hypotenuse (side opposite the 90 degree angle). At 30 degrees north, or south, latitudes the circumference of the earth equals 6 x 3590 miles.

The 31st row is the center row of: the Prime List and the Prime Cube/Cross. The sum of the twin-prime pairs at the north and south points of the Prime Cross is 1908. 1908 is the gematria of the first 18 letters of Genesis 1:1. 1908 is also the year of the Tunguska Blast. The last point of the Prime Cross is 881. At 1908 minutes north, or south, latitude the surface speed of the Earth is 881 MPH. The Greek gematria of Jesus is 888. At 31 degrees north, or south, latitude the surface speed is 888 MPH.

The range of the Prime list is all prime numbers that fall between: 1 to 2010. The sum of the 4 corners of the Prime Cube that surrounds the Prime Cross is 2010. The twin-prime pair at the north point of the Prime Cross is: 431 and 433. 433 is the eighth Star of David number. 431 + 433 equals 864 which is the gematria of Jerusalem. At 2010 minutes north, or south, latitude the surface rotation speed is 864 MPH.

881 is the last point of the Prime Cross. It is the 153rd number of the Prime List and the 43rd number of the Prime Cube. 881 + 1534 + 43 equals 1077 which is the final Greek gematria of ‘cross’. 888 (Jesus) + 1077 (cross) equals 1965. The gematria of the last row of the Breastplate is 888. The total gematria of all 12 stones/tribes is 3700. At 370 minutes north, or south, latitude the circumference of the Earth is 6 x 1965 miles. 1077 + 881 (repeated) equals 1958. At 1958 minutes north, or south, latitude the circumference of the earth equals 6 x 3491 miles. 3491 is the Gregorian day number for 7/22/2005 (1/1/1996 to 7/22/2005 equals 3491 inclusive days). This will be the 153rd inclusive day since Israel agreed to release control of territories in the West bank.

My reply

> > The Greek gematria of Jesus is 888. At 31 degrees north, or south, latitude the surface speed (of Earth) is 888 MPH.

That's very interesting, because Jerusalem is 31 degrees 46'48" North Latitude. I don't know the Latitude of Bethlehem, about 5 miles south of Jerusalem, but it would be 31+ degrees. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Stuart's 14000 Days Scenario ?'s

Reading Stuart's article in the last P&C # 1222, I was struck by several ideas. If the 6 Day War was a model of the coming pre-trib rapture, then the Yom Kipper War SEVEN Years later could very well represent "the period of the Great Tribulation" Are you following me? Seems that we have accounted for the last week of years this way. June 6th 1967 and Yom Kipper are exactly seven years and change apart.

The attack took Israel completely by surprise!!!! That sounds just like our Lord Jesus coming as a thief in the night. Most surprising is that the October War occured during both ramadan and the High Holy Days of 1973. Seven years plus five months counting in my head. Look at the days in 1973. You even see around day 3.5 a great turning point in the fortunes of Israel's military fortunes, amazing!

Could you check is possibility out. Thanks for all your good work

My reply

Thanks. It's good to test these things out. I hadn't thought about this possibility, either. The Yom Kippur War was 10-6-1973, 6+ years after the Six-Day War of 6-5-1967. The Great Tribulation is shortened, so that could fit.

However, I think the attack on Israel by Gog's army will be on Trumpets, Tishri 1 instead of Tishri 10. Anyway, it's food for thought. Agape

Incoming email, Re: http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/may2004/prophbuff515.htm

...do you find this interesting or not MJ? afterall so much seems to be pointing to 2005 as a pivotal year. 14000 days 1967 to Oct 4th 2005 re Zachary there has to be someting in this. How does Oct 3rd 4th pan out?

How are you getting on with squaring your AD30 date and the Andrson calculations of AD2. Don't forget there was a prediction by Gabriel of 69 weeks i don't think that i have yet seen an answer frou you on this score God does not give figures for no reason can you fit AD30 to 69 weeks? We can't ignore the prediction surely.

My reply

I certainly find these things interesting. However, we have to prove everything by comparing it with the Bible to see if these things are so.

I agree that lots of clues point to 2005 as the year of the Pre-Trib Rapture. The next most likely date seems to be Av 10 (Aug. 15, 2005). According to both Josephus and Jeremiah, on this date, both temples went up in clouds of smoke. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit. Will we go up in clouds on Av 10?

> > 14000 days 1967 to Oct 4th 2005 re Zachary there has to be someting in this.

Not necessarily. I think 360-day years and 30-day months are for estimating approximate time, not necessarily to the exact calendar day. Similarly, to save time, our banks figure 30-day months for estimating interest. We pay interest according to the actual days, but using the 30-day figure is close enough for a quick estimate.

I disagree with Sir Robert Anderson on the Crucifixion Date. I go by the information in the Bible instead of taking things people say at face value. Herod began to build the temple in BC 19/20. It was 46 years in building in 27 AD, the first Passover of Jesus' ministry (John 2:13). That places the Crucifixion in 30 AD. Some people start counting the 15th year of Tiberius in 14 AD, when Augustus died, but he became Co-Rex with Augustus in 12 AD. Coins prove it. I have pictures of them a couple of places on my web site.

Jesus was baptized near his birthday, Tishri 1, in 26 AD. Therefore, I think he was born Tishri 1. 3757 (BC 5). I believe the Crucifixion was Nisan 13, the preparation of the Passover, Thursday, April 6, 30 AD (Julian). John 19:14 says, "it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!"

> > How does Oct 3rd 4th pan out?

Tishri 1, 5766 is Oct. 4, 2005. It starts at 6 PM on Oct. 3. That is the Feast of Trumpets. It looks like the Pre-Wrath Rapture will be on Tishri 1. If Av 10 isn't the time of the Rapture, how about Tishri 10 (October 13, 2005), the Day of Atonement.

Rev. 2:10,11 says, "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches".

Lev. 23:27-32 says, "on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD. And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God. For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off (as in Luke 12:46; Mt. 24:51) from among his people. And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people. Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings. It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath."

> > Don't forget there was a prediction by Gabriel of 69 weeks i don't think that i have yet seen an answer frou you on this score God does not give figures for no reason can you fit AD30 to 69 weeks?

Yes. As I said before, Martin Anstey, who wrote "The Romance of Bible Chronology," found an 82-year mistake in the list of the Persian Kings. BC 536 - 82 = BC 454. 69 weeks of years x 7 = 483 (Dan. 9:25). The 483 years - 454 +1 (no zero year) = 30 AD. Agape

Incoming email, Re: partial rapture

Partial rapture impossible.

Each believer is sealed. Regardless of their spiritual state, the seal is not broken. (Only the King can break the seal, and he has promised not to do so....I will in NO wise cast out)

The Holy Spirit indwells each believer.

The Holy Spirit must be removed before the tribulation.

He that letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

The Holy Spirit would be left behind (NOT taken out of the way) if there were one Christian on Earth after rapture.

My reply

Then WHY do YOU need to "PRAY ALWAYS, that YE may be ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE?

Luke 21:34-36 says, "take heed to YOURSELVES, lest at any time YOUR hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day (the Pre-Trib Rapture) come upon YOU unawares. For as a snare (trap) shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch YE therefore, and PRAY ALWAYS, THAT YE MAY BE ACCOUNTED WORTHY TO ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS THAT SHALL (future tense, i.e., afterward) COME TO PASS, AND TO STAND BEFORE THE SON OF MAN" (i.e., in Heaven).

Of those that do not escape before the Tribulation, Luke 12:46 says, "The lord of that servant (the foolish one) will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him HIS PORTION (the shortened Tribulation) WITH THE UNBELIEVERS."

Not one saint will be lost, but the wise virgins (Mt. 25:1f) will be caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture at the first trump of God (I Thess. 4:13-18), and the foolish virgins will be caught up at the "last trump", i.e., in the Pre-Wrath Rapture (I Cor. 15:51). Agape

My reply to incoming email (omitted)

> > during the crucifixion the sun darkened. I attribute this to a total eclipse, symbolically the time the moon (symbol of Satan and the night) blocks the Sun (Son) from view.

You must be guessing. The darkness was an act of God. The Crucifixion was on the preparation of the Passover, which is near full Moon in the middle of the Hebrew month. A solar eclipse can only happen at the dark of the Moon, the first of a lunar month. The Moon is dark, because it gets in between Earth and the Sun.

For proof, go to: http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/SEcat/SE0001-0100.html In 30 AD, Solar eclipses are listed on May 21 and Nov. 14. I think the Crucifixion was April 6, 30 AD, not a day of a solar eclipse.

> > the Rapture. I was thinking the date may be Aug 3, 2008

How about Av 10, August 15, 2005? According to Josephus and Jeremiah, both temples went up in clouds of smoke on Av 10, the date the spies returned to Moses and the Tabernacle of God. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit. Will we go up in clouds on Av 10? We don't have long to wait and see.

Jer 52:12,13 says, "Now in the fifth month, in the TENTH DAY of the month, which was the nineteenth year of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, came Nebuzaradan, captain of the guard, which served the king of Babylon, into Jerusalem, And burned the house of the LORD, and the king's house; and all the houses of Jerusalem, and all the houses of the great men, burned he with fire".

In Wars, VI. IV. 5, Josephus said, "as for that house, God had for certain long ago doomed it to the fire; and now that fatal day was come, according to the revolution of ages: It was the TENTH DAY of the month Lous, [Ab,] upon which it was formerly burnt by the king of Babylon".

> > Also, as far as signs go, when Jesus was born there were 3 Kings that came to him.

The Bible doesn't tell us how many magi came to see Jesus. You may have heard a song that says, "We, three kings of Orient are...", but that isn't the Bible. However, they did bring three gifts, gold, frankincense and myrrh. Agape

Incoming e-mail

I continue to enjoy your labors in your P/C's...P/C 1226 was excellent Article in your P.S. reply to one of your readers... (Ten days to the Rapture): Yes, a nuclear attack on 6 August is giving Muslim Thugs too much credit...I do however see the down fall of America coming (at any moment), a bursting of its own bubble, apart from the "big day of destruction". I too can imagine that Israel is marking itself (disengagement/parting from its land) to cause perhaps God to begin the last seven year judgement period told in Daniel. Perhaps America's own judgement has been hidden in Scripture even though a overall warning of judgement is plainly stated throught Scripture. In any case, I too anticipate AV 10th as an excellent possibility of a period set for a departure of the Ekklesia. As you mentioned in P/C 1227, I shall patiently wait on our departure when ever it occurs. The only hope I see for the earthly Ekklesia is the "Blessed Hope"...a separation from those that heap to themselves, God's wrath againist them. Today is "Twenty" days and counting towards 10 AV. Agape

My reply

Thanks.

The only place I can see the USA in Scripture is II Sam. 7:23 (repeated in I Chron. 17:31). It says, "what one (echad, united) nation in the earth is like thy people, even like Israel, whom God went to redeem for a people to himself, and to make him a name, and to do for you great things and terrible, for thy land, before thy people, which thou redeemedst to thee from Egypt, from the nations and their gods?" Agape

Incoming email, Re: "The 360 day year error"

Jovial (28 July 2005)
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/july2005/jovial728.htm

One fallacy about dating systems is the idea we should count years as 360 day intervals. A "year" is a revolution of the earth around the sun, not 360 days. Some people say this suggesting that the "Jewish calendar" has 30 day months, but there is no Jewish calendar that has 30 days months. The fixed Jewish calendar alternates between 29 and 30 day months to keep in line with the lunar cycles (presently 29.5 days, not 30).

Personally, I think that since Genesis chapter 1 says the heavenly bodies are there to mark times and seasons, that the moon marks months and the sun marks years. Thus if the Bible measures something in days or months we should go by lunar cycles (presently 29.5 days, not 30). If it goes by "years", we should measure it by revolutions around the sun - that is, the earth returning to the same point around the sun. This, not the calendar date, is what should reign supreme....

My reply

Thanks for sharing your reasoning with us on the 360-day so-called prophetic year. I agree with you.

Here are some of my thoughts on the subject. The Bible is consistent A day was one revolution of the Earth in Genesis 1:5. If a day was from even to even in Genesis 1:5 and Lev. 23:32, which was after the first month was changed at Mt. Sinai, I think it should be figured from even to even throughout. Since man was to rest on the 7th day in Gen. 2:2,3, the days and the 7-day week seem to have been constant from the creation of Adam down to our time.

What about months? The Hebrew Calendar was established by Genesis 7:11, where the 2nd month, 17th day was listed as the day Noah entered the Ark and the Lord shut him in. He was in the Ark from Cheshvan 17 (the second month, Gen 7:11) to Cheshvan 27 in the following year (Gen. 8:14).

A year was established by Gen. 5:3, where Adam was said to be 130 years old when Seth was born. This shows that years were counted from the day that Adam was created. Thus, the Hebrew Calendar was established according to Gen. 1:13,14. It says, "And the evening and the morning were the third day. And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for DAYS, and YEARS."

I think that 3rd day was Elul 26, and that the 7th day, when God rested, was Tishri 1, New Year Day (NYD). From that time on, I think NYD was set when the Crescent Moon of Tishri 1 could be seen. We can now see that Adam was created on the last day of Year Zero. This "kosmos" (orderly arrangement of things) began to operate on Tishri 1 of Year One, Adam's first year. No wonder Hebrew babies are called one-year olds their whole first year.

According to Josephus, during Seth's lifetime, Adam and Seth drew the Zodiac by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit (Ant. I. II. 3). Thus, when the Sun reached a certain point on the Zodiac, another solar year began. The length of the 12 months had to fit within the length of the solar year, which never was 360 days long. It was constantly 365+ days.

Also, God arranged the Calendar so that the number of days between Passover and Trumpets are constant. The adjustments necessary to fit the solar year are in other months, not in Nisan, Iyar, Sivan, Tamuz, Av or Elul. To keep from needing to adjust the days in Elul, the NYD is figured mathematically one year in advance. Then the type of year (they have 6 types) having the right number of days is fitted in. It seems cumbersome to us, but it works. The Hebrew Calendar is amazingly accurate in the long run.

Also, what do you think about the 14000 actual days from June 6, 1967 (beginning of the Six-Day War) to October 4, 2005 (Feast of Trumpets)? Could these 14000 days point to the Rapture on Tishri 1, 5766? That is 38.8 years after the Six-Day War started.

Think about the man who "had an infirmity thirty and eight years" (John 5:5). At the end of those years, Jesus told him, "Rise, take up thy bed, and walk" (v. 8). Could this tie in with the Rapture?

I read "14000-DAY GENERATION AND ROSH HASHANAH 2005," by Stuart Cobbs
http://www.christian-forum.net/lofiversion/index.php/t1209.html

I disagree with some of his figures. To me, he is mixing apples and oranges. In figuring the 14000-day generation from the Exodus to the entry into the Promised Land, he uses the 360-day year. In figuring the time from the the Six-Day War in 1967 to his proposed Rapture on the upcoming Feast of Trumpets, he uses the actual number of days, not going by the 360-day year. Are they equal? I don't think so.

I also disagree with his figures for his 14000-day period from the Crucifixion to the burning of the temple in 70 AD. To me, the Crucifixion had to be in 30 AD. He uses Sir Robert Anderson's date of April 6, 32 AD (Palm Sunday), and Sir Robert Anderson not only used the 360-day year, he used the wrong edict as the starting time for his calculations.
Stuart Cobbs said:
> > Sir Robert Anderson wrote the Christian classic, "The Coming Prince" and determined the dates that fulfilled Daniel’s prophesies. March 15, 444 BC (edict to rebuild Jerusalem by Artaxerxes) 69 weeks of years x 7 = 483 years = 173880 days March 15, 444BC plus 173880 days is April 6, 32 AD Palm Sunday Jesus rides into Jerusalem April 6, 32 AD Palm Sunday

I think that is the wrong edict, so his date for Palm Sunday is wrong. Isa. 44:26 says that the Lord "saith of CYRUS, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to JERUSALEM, Thou shalt be built; and to the TEMPLE, Thy foundation shall be laid." No other edict but that of Cyrus makes sense to me. Whether the exact words of Cyrus were recorded in Scripture or not, we have the Lord's word on it. That's the very best authority.

The equation 69 x 7 x 360 = 173880 days is not an actual count of Solar days, i.e., revolutions of Earth.

> > I truly believe God has given His Church a prophetic timeline which is not difficult to discern. I believe God wants to show His Church what He will do and to expect the closing of the "Church Age" with the Rapture of the Church on Rosh-Hashana 2005.
I believe God established a 14000 day generation with the Wilderness Generation and repeated the 14000 day generation with the generation that rejected Jesus as Messiah.
I believe if we properly understand the 14000 day timeline it should be no more difficult to discern that Rosh-Hashana 2005 is the date of the Church Rapture as it was for the "Jewish religious authorities " to discern the date from Daniel’s prophesy that Jesus the Messiah was to ride into Jerusalem on April 6, 32 AD (Palm Sunday).
> > It is fascinating that the three most important generations in the history of the Jewish people are EXACTLY 14000 days. (38.8 Jewish Years or 2000 Jewish weeks).
> > 1. The Wilderness generation which is EXACTLY 14000 days
> > 2. The generation which rejected Jesus as the Messiah to the destruction of Jerusalem In 70AD was EXACTLY 14000 days
> > 3. The Last Generation which saw the recapture of Jerusalem on June 6, 1967 to Rosh-Hashana 2005 is EXACTLY 14000 days
> > The Jewish Calander is based on a 360 day year consisting of 12 months. (emphasis mine throughout)
The only one of these that seems EXACTLY right to me is Number 3. Is it meaningful if it stands alone?
> > GOD ESTABLISHES A 14000 DAY GENERATION
> > After the Israelites passed thru the Red Sea, God commanded Moses to number the men of the congregation who were 20 years of age and older. The numbering of the men 20 and over established who was of fighting age and the generation that was accountable to God. Once the men were numbered, the wilderness journey began. In Numbers 10:11 we read the numbered accountable generation of Israelites left Sinai on the 20th day of the 2nd month of the 2nd year – (Calendar Year = 360 days of 12 months) We add 30 plus 20 plus 360 = 410 Days . When the last man of the cursed generation died, God commanded that the congregation cross into the Promised Land. In Joshua 4:19 the Israelites entered the Promised Land on the 10th day of the 1st month of the 41st year (for 41st year see Dt 1:3.) Calendar Year 360 x 40 = 14400 + 10 = 14410. When we subtract the 410 days from the 14410 days we get exactly 14000 days for the numbered accountable, cursed generation! The Israelites were commanded by God to enter the Promised Land the very day the last man of the cursed, numbered generation died. Exactly 14000 days from when the numbered generation set out into the Wilderness!

God said it was 40 years, not 38.8 years. Nu. 14:33 says, "your children shall wander in the wilderness FORTY YEARS, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcases be wasted in the wilderness." It was 38 years from the Provocation to entering the Land, but 40 from the beginning of the Exodus.

> > From the very day Daniel prophesized Jesus would ride into Jerusalem on April 6, 32 AD to the destruction of Jerusalem on August 5, 70AD was exactly a 14000 day generation. Jesus rides into Jerusalem April 6, 32 AD Palm Sunday Destruction of Jerusalem and the temple on August 5, 70 AD Time interval is 14000 days (2000 weeks or 38.8 Jewish years)

I think the year of the Crucifixion was 30 AD. Herod began to build the temple in BC 20/19. It was 46 years in building in 27 AD, the first Passover of Jesus' ministry. This agrees with April 6, 30 AD for the Crucifixion. That was 40 years before the temple was burned in 70 AD, not 38.8 years.

Eze. 4:6,7 says, "thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah FORTY DAYS: I have appointed thee EACH DAY FOR A YEAR. Therefore thou shalt set thy face toward the siege of Jerusalem, and thine arm shall be uncovered, and thou shalt prophesy against it."

To me, that period of time from the Crucifixion to the burning of the temple in 70 AD has to be FORTY YEARS. Agape

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