Pro and Con 1229
Incoming e-mail, Re: "Time to let go of the RAPTURE HOPE... just for a little while."
Ed (26 July 2005)
As many of you might, I'm intently watching for Oct 3/4, 2005. And the other deadline being Aug 17th. I know most of you believe in rapture to occur before the Great Tribulation starts, maybe on Oct 3rd?, but I just wanted to point you to somethings related to those dates. If the 'America's Hiroshima' plan is really on the way, and if a lot of you guys are living in America, Wouldn't it be a shame not to avoid possible death for the purpose of God? (I know you believe you will be catched away before that but what if?)
Especially now you have all these pieces of information about the impending attack, maybe it's time to do something about it rather than just waiting for the rapture to happen. Because; the coming tribulation is the final spiritual battle between Good & Evil to win as many souls as possible, and I believe G-d needs all the elite soldiers (you doves ^^) down here for that final battle.
I really don't think he will take away all the elites and leave only rag-tag soldiers to fight the biggest battle of all time against the forces of Evil.
I ask you, please pray and ask him to guide you, so that you can survive this nuclear attack and be of good use for God. I think they even have the list of the cities that may be attacked at worldnetdaily.
Here's my reasoning. The scripture says the return of Jesus and our being gathered to him (rapture!) will not happen unless the antichrist sits on the temple and declare himself, G-d.
"1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." 2 Thessalonians 2
If this is true, then I don't think there's enough time for all these things to happen before the Rosh Hashana this year. I don't know if the temple can be rebuilt in 2 months. Rather, this is how I think it will unfold before Rosh Hashana, based on the information I gathered and concluded.
1. I don't think the disengagement plan will go forward and something will happen to cancel that all together. I think someone will destroy the Dome of the Rock in an effort to disrupt or stop the disengagement. (or Vendyl Jones will find the Ark of the covenant thus prompting Israel to abandon peace effort and build the temple. Anyhow, they will get rid of the Dome of the Rock.)
2. Alquaeda lauches a nuclear attack on America in retaliation of the destruction of the Dome of the Rock and as a pre-emptive strike to disable America before the all out war against Israel. -- before or around Aug 17.
3. Arab countries aided by Russia, Turkey, and few others, will surround Israel to make war. (Prophesied in Ezkiel and Luke. Some say the war in Ezkiel will not happen until close to amargeddon war but I think 'on that day' should be interpreted carefully. It will be too long to explain that here.)
4. Israel wins that war and the Antichrist mediates 7 year peace agreement between Israel and the countries that participated in the war, signalling the start of the Great Tribulation. at Oct 3rd or 4th, 2005, and allows for the Jerusalem Temple to be rebuilt and daily sacrifice.
5. Due to the collapse of America(world's police and economic engine), war and econonomic panic will continue during the first half of the tribulation. (Revelation seal 1-4)
6. After 3 & 1/2 years, the Antichrist will stop the daily sacrifice and proclaim himself to be G-d.
7. The antichrist will begin to subdue countries under him and overcome the saints, and after 1,290 days he will have control of all the earth.
8. The sign appears in the sky and natural catastrophe occurs (the sun darkened, stars fallin, etc - the 6th seal) and followers of the Antichrist tremble becase of the coming Wraith of G-d. The saints being tortured look up because the redemption is near.
9. Jesus returns on the cloud and gathers the saints up onto the cloud to be with him. The saints killed by the Antichrist and its followers are resurrected before the rapture. The rest of the dead will be resurrected when the 1000 year kingdom is ended.
10. The 7th seal opens, and while Jesus and the raptured saints hover up on the air, a bowl containing G-d's wraith is poured onto all the earth everytime a trumpet is blown. Total of 7 times.
11. After the 5th bowl has been poured, Jesus, riding a white horse, descend onto the earth with his angels, and kill the kings and the people who are gathered at Amargeddon to fight him. The antichrist and the false prophet thrown into the lake of fire.
12. After the Wraith of G-d ends with the 7th bowl, 1000 year kingdom of Jesus starts.
Many will fall away from the faith during the tribulation but many will also be saved. I believe that there will be an unprecedented harvest during the tribulation. Many people will want to believe when they see the things forwarned in the Bible happen for real; mark of the beast and all. Many who were first will be last and many last will be first during the tribulation.
The first 3 & 1/2 years will be the time of preparation (and also of evangelization) for the saints, because during the reign of the beast which will be during the last half of the tribulation, he will not allow anyone to buy or sell, unless they receive the mark of the beast. So, we have to prepare to be able to feed not only ourselves but other saints who could not prepare in advance, and to guide the confused and evangelize them, and to help them escape the hunting beast followers....
So, I think it's time to brace for the final battle against the evil(not a battle to fight with swords but to save as many as souls as possible) and prepare. When Jesus returns and sees us feeding other saints, we will be greatly rewarded.
"45Who then is the faithful and wise servant (FWS), whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47I tell you the truth, he will put him in charge of all his possessions." Mathew 24
Happy doveing, (at least until and if America's attacked. I don't know if the internet will still be up after the attack.)
> > I believe G-d needs all the elite soldiers (you doves ^^) down here for that final battle.
> > I really don't think he will take away all the elites and leave only rag-tag soldiers to fight the biggest battle of all time against the forces of Evil.
I don't see anything in the Bible to indicate that you are right in your human reasoning, and we must go by what God says, not what man says...We shouldn't lose sight of the fact that God is in complete control, and it is God that will fight the biggest battle.
Zech. 14:1-3 says, "Behold, THE DAY OF THE LORD COMETH, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee. For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city. THEN SHALL THE LORD GO FORTH, AND FIGHT AGAINST THOSE NATIONS".
You assume that God will need us to bring in his sheaves during the Tribulation. But is that right? In John 9:4, Jesus said, "I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: THE NIGHT COMETH, WHEN NO MAN CAN WORK." What is this NIGHT that is coming? Is it the TRIBULATION? What do the scriptures say? In Mt. 8:11,12, Jesus said, "many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. But the children of the kingdom shall be CAST OUT into outer DARKNESS (outside the door darkness): there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH."
Mt. 22:13 says,, "Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer DARKNESS; there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH." In Mt. 25:30, Jesus said, "And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer DARKNESS: there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH."
I think the weeping and gnashing of teeth will take place at the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture. At that time, the foolish virgins will be cut off and left behind. Luke 12:46 says, "The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him HIS PORTION (THE TRIBULATION) WITH THE UNBELIEVERS." Mt. 24:51 adds, "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion (THE TRIBULATION) with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be WEEPING AND GNASHING OF TEETH."
1Th 5:3-5 says, "when they (in the Tribulation) shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction. But YE, BRETHREN (believers), ARE NOT IN DARKNESS (THE TRIBULATION), that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: WE ARE NOT OF THE NIGHT, NOR OF DARKNESS."
> > Here's my reasoning. The scripture says the return of Jesus and our being gathered to him (rapture!) will not happen unless the antichrist sits on the temple and declare himself, G-d.
> > "1Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, 2not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. 3Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for (that day will not come) until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness[a] is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." 2 Thessalonians 2
You quote a Bible Version that has it right (i.e., "the day of the Lord," not "the day of Christ," as in the KJV), yet you seem to be going by what someone else has said about the KJV in II Thess. 2:2.
It is not the Rapture (the Day of Christ) that won't happen until AFTER the Antichrist sits in the temple "shewing himself that he is God" (II Thess. 2:4). It is "THE DAY OF THE LORD" that will not come until after Antichrist comes.
There are two Raptures. The Pre-Trib Rapture is at the BEGINNING of the Tribulation. The Day of the Lord is the Day of God's Wrath that comes at the END of the shortened Tribulation. The Pre-Wrath Rapture is at the END OF THE SHORTENED TRIBULATION, just before the Wrath of God falls on the unbelievers at noon (Zeph. 2:3-5)..
Just so you will know as you research this further, this is one place the KJV is not as precise as it could be. Instead of "the day of Christ," it should say, the Day of the Lord, as in your quote above and in the major MSS. Christ is the Lord, so it seems ok. However, the Day of Christ is the Pre-Trib Rapture, and the Day of the Lord is the Day of God's Wrath at the end of the shortened Tribulation. There is a huge difference between the two.
This mistake was corrected in the New Scofield Reference Edition. It says, "That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that THE DAY OF THE LORD is present."
In the Introduction to the Tischendorf New Testament, it says, "The Authorized Version, like Luther's, was made from a Greek text which Erasmus in 1516, and Robert Stephens in 1550, had formed from manuscripts of later date than the tenth century.... Since the sixteenth century Greek manuscripts have been discovered of far greater antiquity than those of Erasmus and Stephens; as well as others in Latin, Syriac, Coptic, and Gothic, into which languages the sacred text was translated between the second and fourth centuries...one thing is agreed upon by the majority of those who understand the subject, namely, that the oldest copies approach the original text more nearly than the later ones."
In Tischendorf's New Testament, the note at II Thess. 2:2 says, "SVA the day of the Lord." The "S" stands for The Sinaitic Codex (discovered by Tischendorf). The "V" stands for The Vatican Codex. The "A" stands for The Alexandrine Codex. We have good reason to think that "day of the Lord" belongs in II Thess. 2:2 instead of "day of Christ." These are major MSS.
Here are some other versions that translate verse 2 correctly:
(Lamsa, from the Syriac) "That you let not your minds be hastily excited or troubled, neither by word nor by prophecy of the spirit nor by an epistle supposedly from us, stating that THE DAY OF OUR LORD is at hand."
(NIV) verses 1 and 2: "Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered (i.e., raptured) to him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that THE DAY OF THE LORD has already come."
(Darby) "that ye be not soon shaken in mind, nor troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter, as if it were by us, as that THE DAY OF THE LORD is present."
(DRB) "That you be not easily moved from your sense nor be terrified, neither by spirit nor by word nor by epistle. as sent from us, as if THE DAY OF THE LORD were at hand."
(ASV) "to the end that ye be not quickly shaken from your mind, nor yet be troubled, either by spirit, or by word, or by epistle as from us, as that THE DAY OF THE LORD is just at hand."
(ISV) "not to be so quickly upset or alarmed when someone claims that we said either by some spirit, conversation, or letter that THE DAY OF THE LORD has already come."
(MRC) "that you may not be quickly agitated from your composure or be disturbed either by a demonic spirit or a word or a letter as if from us, to the effect that THE DAY OF THE LORD has come."
(Murdock) "that ye be not soon agitated in your mind, nor be troubled, neither by word, nor by spirit, nor by letter, as coming from us, that lo, THE DAY OF THE LORD is at hand."
(WNT) "not readily to become unsettled in mind or troubled--either by any pretended spiritual revelation or by any message or letter claiming to have been sent by us--through fancying that THE DAY OF THE LORD is now here."
Acts 2:20 tells us that "THE SUN SHALL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS, AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD, BEFORE THAT GREAT AND NOTABLE DAY OF THE LORD COME." Will that really happen before the Rapture? No. It will happen after the 6th seal is broken. The 6th seal is broken in Rev. 6:12. The darkness will follow that.
Rev.. 6:12-17 says, "I beheld when he had opened the SIXTH SEAL, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and THE SUN BECAME BLACK as sackcloth of hair, and THE MOON BECAME AS BLOOD; And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and HIDE US FROM THE FACE OF HIM THAT SITTETH ON THE THRONE (they see the Sign of the Son of Man, Mt. 24:30), and from THE WRATH OF THE LAMB: FOR THE GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH IS COME; and who shall be able to stand?"
However, the 2nd Rapture, the Pre-Wrath Rapture, will take place that day, but before the asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10 hit Earth at noon (Zeph. 2:3-5).
Acts. 2:19-23 says, "I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: The sun shall be turned into DARKNESS, and the moon into blood, BEFORE that great and notable DAY OF THE LORD come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved" (i.e., raptured). No believers will be left on Earth when the Wrath of God is poured out on unbelievers.
> > Some say the war in Ezkiel will not happen until close to amargeddon war but I think 'on that day' should be interpreted carefully. It will be too long to explain that here.)
> > 4. Israel wins that war and the Antichrist mediates 7 year peace agreement between Israel and the countries that participated in the war, signalling the start of the Great Tribulation. at Oct 3rd or 4th, 2005, and allows for the Jerusalem Temple to be rebuilt and daily sacrifice.
Gog's army will attack Israel on the day of God's Wrath, AT THE END OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION, NOT AT THE START OF IT. Eze. 38:18-20 says, "it shall come to pass AT THE SAME TIME when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that MY FURY shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy and in the fire of MY WRATH have I spoken, Surely in THAT DAY (THE DAY OF THE LORD) there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence (paniym, face, i.e., the Sign of the Son of Man), and the mountains (asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10) shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground." No wonder the fish of the sea will shake, the mountain-sized asteroid will impact the Mediterranean Sea at noon (Zeph. 2:3-5). The earthquake will be world wide. The cities of the nations will be destroyed (Rev. 16:19). Every wall will fall. Think of the consequences of that one thing. Buildings will fall in shambles.
Eze 38:23 says, "Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the EYES OF MANY NATIONS (THE SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN WILL BE SEEN), and they shall know that I am the LORD."
> > 12. After the Wraith of G-d ends with the 7th bowl, 1000 year kingdom of Jesus starts.
His kingdom starts on the Day of God's Wrath. While the saints are in Heaven receiving their rewards, the unbelievers left on Earth receive God's Wrath. Rev. 11:17-19 says, "We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast REIGNED. And the nations were angry, and THY WRATH IS COME, and the time of the dead, that they should be JUDGED (at the Judgment Seat of Christ), and that thou shouldest give REWARD unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; AND shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament (with its TWO STONE TABLETS): and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."
> > I believe that there will be an unprecedented harvest during the tribulation.
That is certain. Rev. 7:9,14 says, "a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands...These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb." These are the ones caught up in the Pre-Wrath Rapture.
Rev. 4:1 is when the wise virgins are caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture. Rev 5:9 says that these saints "sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation"
Just remember, the Pre-Trib Rapture takes place before Christ is given the seven-sealed Title Deed to the Earth. The Pre-Wrath Rapture is after the 6th seal is broken. Agape
The Day of Christ is the day of the Pre-Trib Rapture (by MJA)
1 Cor. 1:7,8 says, "WAITING FOR THE COMING OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST: Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in THE DAY OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST."
I Cor. 5:5 says, "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in THE DAY OF THE LORD JESUS."
II Cor. 1:14 says, "we are your rejoicing, even as ye also are ours in THE DAY OF THE LORD JESUS."
Phil. 1:6 says, "he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until THE DAY OF JESUS CHRIST".
Phil. 1:10 says, "approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till THE DAY OF CHRIST".
Phil. 2:14-16 says, "Do all things without murmurings and disputings: That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in THE DAY OF CHRIST, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain."
The Day of the Lord is the day of the Pre-Wrath Rapture (by MJA)
Mal 4:5 says, "I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD", Thus, THE DAY OF THE LORD is after the beginning of the Tribulation.
Isa 13:6 says, "THE DAY OF THE LORD is at hand; it shall come as a DESTRUCTION from the Almighty." Therefore, THE DAY OF THE LORD is at the end of the shortened Tribulation.
Act 2:20 says, "THE SUN SHALL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS, AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD, BEFORE THAT GREAT AND NOTABLE DAY OF THE LORD COME."
II Peter 3:10 says, "But THE DAY OF THE LORD will come as a thief in the night; in the which THE HEAVENS SHALL PASS AWAY WITH A GREAT NOISE, AND THE ELEMENTS SHALL MELT WITH FERVENT HEAT, THE EARTH ALSO AND THE WORKS THAT ARE THEREIN SHALL BE BURNED UP."
Zeph 2:2-5 says, "BEFORE THE DAY OF THE LORD'S ANGER COME UPON YOU. SEEK YE THE LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: IT MAY BE YE SHALL BE HID (raptured) IN THE DAY OF THE LORD'S ANGER. For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the NOON DAY, and Ekron shall be rooted up. Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast". The asteroid of Rev. 8:8 will impact the Mediterranean Sea.
Isa 13:9 says, "Behold, THE DAY OF THE LORD cometh, cruel both with WRATH and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it."
Jer 46:10 says, "For this is THE DAY OF THE LORD GOD OF HOSTS, A DAY OF VENGEANCE, that he may avenge him of his adversaries".
Eze 13:5 says, "Ye have not gone up into the gaps, neither made up the hedge for the house of Israel to stand in the battle in THE DAY OF THE LORD."
Eze 30:2,3 says, "Thus saith the Lord GOD; Howl ye, Woe worth the day! For the day is near, even THE DAY OF THE LORD is near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen."
Joe 1:15 says, "Alas for the day! for THE DAY OF THE LORD is at hand, and AS A DESTRUCTION FROM THE ALMIGHTY SHALL IT COME."
Joe 2:1,2 says, "Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for THE DAY OF THE LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations."
Joel 2:11 says, "THE DAY OF THE LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?"
Joe 2:31 says, "The SUN SHALL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS, AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD, before the great and the terrible DAY OF THE LORD come."
Joe 3:14-16 says, "Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision: for THE DAY OF THE LORD is near in the valley of decision. THE SUN AND THE MOON SHALL BE DARKENED, and the stars shall withdraw their shining. The LORD also shall roar out of Zion, and utter his voice from Jerusalem; and the heavens and the earth shall shake: but the LORD will be the hope of his people, and the strength of the children of Israel."
Amo 5:18,20 says, "Woe unto you that desire THE DAY OF THE LORD! to what end is it for you? THE DAY OF THE LORD IS DARKNESS, and not light....Shall not THE DAY OF THE LORD BE DARKNESS, and not light? even very dark, and no brightness in it?"
Obadiah 1:15 says, "THE DAY OF THE LORD IS NEAR UPON ALL THE HEATHEN: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head."
Zep 1:7,8 says, "Hold thy peace at the presence of the Lord GOD: for THE DAY OF THE LORD is at hand: for the LORD hath prepared a sacrifice, he hath bid his guests. And it shall come to pass in the day of the LORD'S sacrifice, that I will punish the princes, and the king's children, and all such as are clothed with strange apparel."
Zep 1:14-18 says, "THE GREAT DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of THE DAY OF THE LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly. THAT DAY IS A DAY OF WRATH, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, A DAY OF DARKNESS and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, A day of the trumpet (it is the Feast of Trumpets) and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the LORD: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung. Neither their silver nor their gold shall be able to deliver them in THE DAY OF THE LORD'S WRATH; but the whole land shall be devoured by the fire of his jealousy: for he shall make even a speedy riddance of all them that dwell in the land."
2Pe 3:10-12 says, "THE DAY OF THE LORD will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of THE DAY OF GOD, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat?"
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