Pro and Con 1237

Posted 8-29-05

Incoming e-mail, Re: Interesting

> > John 14:2-4 says, "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. And whither I go ye know (to Saturn), and the way ye know." We do know the way. The Cassini Mission is in orbit around Saturn now. It took 7 years to get there, and began orbiting Saturn July 1, 2004. It is to photograph Saturn and her moons for 4 years, till July 1, 2008.

Are you saying, there is more presence at Saturn than the Cassini Spacecraft. Or there will me more presence at Saturn than the Cassini Spacecraft?

Teach me...who is at Saturn and why? Thanks

My reply

I think Saturn is where Christ's throne is located. I wrote a book on it, "Heaven Found: A Butter and Honey Star."

Its color is golden, and it is the last of the naked-eye planets.

Job 37:18-22 (LXX) mentions the "ancient heavens". It says that "the light is not visible to all; it shines afar off in the heavens, as that which is from him in the clouds. From the north come the clouds shining like GOLD: in these great are the glory and honour of THE ALMIGHTY."

Jesus is the Almighty. In Rev. 1:8, he said, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is (when the Pre-Trib Rapture is at hand), and which was (at the First Advent), and which is to come (at the Second Advent), THE ALMIGHTY."

In Rev. 22:13,16, Jesus said, "I am Alpha AND Omega, the beginning AND the end, the first AND the last....I am the root (YHWH) AND the offspring of David (Jesus), and the bright and morning star." I think his throne is on Saturn, which is a morning star at times, and an evening star at other times during each year.

Isa. 44:6 says, "Thus saith the LORD (YHWH) the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD (YHWH) of hosts; I am the first (YHWH King of Israel), and I am the last (YHWH of hosts, the redeemer); and beside me there is no God."

Isa. 9:6 says, "For unto us a child (Jesus) is born (inheriting his human nature from his mother), unto us a son is given (inheriting his deity from his Father): and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, THE MIGHTY GOD, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace." Heaven is a rock that is "as the sun", "as the moon", "as dusty earth", and "like the earth".

Psa. 89:36,37 (KJV) says, "His seed shall endure for ever, and HIS THRONE AS THE SUN before me. It shall be established for ever AS THE MOON, and as a faithful witness (therefore visible) IN HEAVEN."

In the LXX, Job 38:37,38 says, "who is he that numbers the clouds in wisdom, and has bowed the the earth? For it (heaven) is spread out AS DUSTY EARTH, AND I HAVE CEMENTED IT AS ONE HEWN STONE TO ANOTHER."

Psa. 78:69 (KJV) says that the Lord "built his sanctuary (Tabernacle) like high palaces (i.e., planets) LIKE THE EARTH" (a planet).

Saturn is in the third heaven, (1) Mars, (2) Jupiter and (3) Saturn.

Paul was caught up to the third heaven. II Cor. 12:1 says, "(whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the THIRD HEAVEN." Paul tells about it as if it was someone else, but gives the reason for that approach in v. 6. He said, "I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me."

There is "brightness round about" Heaven, i.e., the ring system, and its symbol is the sapphire, which means dear to the planet Saturn, from the Sanskrit Sani, Saturn, and priya, dear.

Eze 1:26-28 says, "above the firmament (expanse of space) that was over their heads (i.e., farther out in space than the 4 terrestrial planets) was the likeness of a THRONE (Jesus'), as the appearance of a SAPPHIRE stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man (Jesus) above upon it. And I saw as the colour of amber (Saturn is yellow and amber), as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins (from the equator) even upward, and from the appearance of his loins (from the equator) even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had BRIGHTNESS ROUND ABOUT" (i.e., the ring system).

Sapphire means dear to the planet Saturn, from the Sanskrit Sani (Saturn) and priya (dear)..

Ex 24:10 says that at Mt. Sinai, "they saw the God of Israel (the Pre-incarnate Christ): and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a SAPPHIRE STONE, and as it were (symbolic language) the body of heaven (heavenly body) in his clearness."

Because "Joshua" from the Hebrew is the same as "Jesus" from the Greek, the English translation of the Greek Septuagint (LXX) brings out the real meaning of Zech 3:1-10. This version makes it easy to recognize Jesus for who he really is.

It says, "the Lord shewed me JESUS THE HIGH PRIEST standing before the angel of the Lord, and the Devil stood on his right hand to resist him...If thou wilt walk in my ways, and take heed to my charges, then shalt thou judge my house: and if thou wilt diligently keep my court, then will I give thee men to walk in the midst of these that stand here. Hear now, JESUS THE HIGH PRIEST, thou, and thy neighbors that are sitting before thee: for they are diviners (mowpheth, men who in their persons shadow forth future events), for, behold, I bring forth my servant THE BRANCH. FOR AS FOR THE STONE WHICH I HAVE SET BEFORE THE FACE OF JESUS, ON THE ONE STONE ARE SEVEN EYES" (orbs, rings). As seen from Earth, Saturn has 7 rings.


Heaven is visible (Job 37:18-22, LXX).
It has golden clouds (Job 37:18-22, LXX).
It is the Lord's throne (Isa 66:1).
The Lord's throne is in New Jerusalem (Rev. 18:22:3,4).
Heaven is called Paradise (II Cor. 12:2-4)
Paradise is in the third heaven (II Cor. 12::2-4).
Heaven is a sphere; length, width and height are equal (Rev 21:16).
It is a planet in our solar system (Psa 89:36,37).
It is between two other planets (Psa. 99:1).
It is a naked-eye planet (Psa 89:36,37).
It has a rocky core (Job 38:37,38, LXX).
It has "brightness round about" in the ring system (Eze. 1:28). Agape

His reply

Ever more interesting now.
thank you for the response.
I understand what you wrote. Without the Holy Spirit, you couldnt have wrote such a response....

Incoming e-mail, Re: The Courier-Mail Scientists probe asteroid crash [25aug05]


Isn't it interesting how the world recently finds heavenly impacts a probability? How the seas rage and the waves roar? How plagues and pestilences crop up? And, all the Global Warming concerns? All of this without considering mans sins and Bible prophecy. Why, one would think the world is asleep or something! Mankind's self denial of Christ and the coming judgment is sad, yet amazing at our ignorant arrogance. It must be trying to be a knowledgable Christian of God's Word and hold professions within the secular scientific and political community. Signs and wonders abound. When the stars do fall, at least God's Word will be understood to be true. A bit late, but understood. Agape

My reply

Thanks for sending this to me.
Scientists probe asteroid crash
By Robyn Grace, 25 aug 05
AN asteroid the size of a house that exploded with the power of an atom bomb over Antarctica last year may help scientists prepare for the entrance of larger bodies into the Earth's atmosphere.

The 1000-tonne asteroid crashed to Earth in millions of pieces last September, 900km from the nearest humans at Japan's Syowa station....

The 10m-wide asteroid part of the "potentially hazardous" Aten group orbiting between Venus and Earth is the largest body to enter the Earth's atmosphere in a decade....

He said Australian physicist Joseph Zagari discovered the asteroid's dust trail "quite by accident" when he was making atmospheric observations.

Mr Zagari initially thought the trail was a fault in his instrument but the crash was later confirmed by US defence satellites....
> > Isn't it interesting how the world recently finds heavenly impacts a probability?
Yes, and it was foretold. Jer 23:18-20 says, "who hath stood in the counsel of the LORD, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it? Behold, a whirlwind of the LORD is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head (rosh, head, top ruler, i.e., the False Prophet) of the wicked. The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: in the latter days ye shall consider (biyn, understand) it perfectly."

Zec 11:17 says, "Woe to the idol shepherd (the False Prophet) that leaveth the flock! (he goes to Babylon) the sword (Sword of the Lord, the asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10) shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened." Agape

"The Ten Virgins the Parable Does not Stop in Matthew", from Five Doves site

John M Johnson (19 Aug 2005)

The scriptures are full of things that seem to be what they are not.

God revealed the purpose for his Son coming into the world throughout the scriptures. Yet all the revelation of his purpose is not written down in a succinct and orderly fashion.

The information is scattered through the whole bible. Likewise it is the same regarding his second coming. We cannot doggedly hold to one verse or group of verses to proclaim "the truth"...we must know and ask the Father to help us speak the "Whole Counsel of God".

For example in the old testament it is said that the Messiah would come out of Bethlehem:

Micah 5:2
2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of you shall come forth to Me the One to be Ruler in Israel, whose goings forth are from of old, from everlasting."

Yet in another place it says that God will call his son out of Egypt! Contradiction...right? Wrong. As we all know both of these scriptures are fulfilled.

So it is in the new testament...all is not as it seems. We must learn to allow all the truth of God to blend together to give us a full picture of who God is and what he intends to do in these last days.

One thing we cannot do is to separate our theology. That is we cannot compartmentalize what we believe. We cannot say this doctrine does not interact with that doctrine...for this is impossible since God is One.

All that he is and all that is true is one in God. It is a whole which must be examined through prayer and guidance by the Holy Spirit.

That being said let us consider the 10 virgins.

Are they all virgins? Yes. They in there standing before the Lord are all virgins. They are clean, undefiled.

The bible tells us that that which is born of spirit is spirit and that which is born of flesh is flesh. Once we have been born again we have been born again in our spirit.

Our spirit is made alive by God sending the Spirit of His Son into our spirits to cry Abba Father. It is Jesus that comes to us when we are born again....the Holy Spirit cannot cry Abba Father because the Holy Spirit is not the Son. The Holy Spirit did not die on the cross for us. The Holy Spirit did not shed his blood for us...Jesus did.

Thus when we are born again it is Jesus that comes into our lives that is he lights our lamps with his spirit in our spirit.

Let me say that again...When Jesus comes into our lives we are born again in our spirit (that which is born of spirit is spirit) and when the Spirit of the Son (Jesus) comes into our lives he lights our lamps because he is the light of the world.

All the virgins had lamps that were lit.

Now, some might say that is a little far fetched to say that Jesus lights our lamps when he comes into our spirit...but not so.

In Prov 20:27 the scriptures say:
The spirit of a man is the lamp of the LORD, searching all the inner depths of his heart.

Man's spirit is the lamp of the Lord...when our spirit has Jesus in it our lamps are lit....because he is the light of the world.

So, all the virgins (who are clean and undefiled) have their lamps lit (they have Jesus in their spirits) yet 5 have extra oil and 5 do not have extra oil.

They are told to go buy for themselves.

The oil as we already know is the Holy Spirit. How do we know this? Let's look at Exod 40:9 where it speaks of oil:

"And you shall take the anointing oil, and anoint the tabernacle and all that is in it; and you shall hallow it and all its utensils, and it shall be holy.

The oil is an anointing I Jn 2:27 we see what this anointing oil is:

27 But the anointing which you have received from Him abides in you, and you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you will abide in Him.

The anointing oil is the Holy Spirit. For it is the Holy Spirit that will guide us into all truth...true?

But what about buying, from whom do they buy the oil? Why Jesus of course. Let's look at Rev 3:18:

"I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined in the fire, that you may be rich; and white garments, that you may be clothed, that the shame of your nakedness may not be revealed; and anoint your eyes with eye salve, that you may see.

And again in Isa 55:1:

"Ho! Everyone who thirsts, come to the waters; and you who have no money, come, buy and eat. Yes, come, buy wine and milk without money and without price.

OK. They are to buy the oil from Jesus, that is they are to be filled with the Holy Spirit as the scriptures command filled with the they go to buy oil.

Then they come back after having purchased the oil. Now they are the same as the 5 wise virgins that went into the wedding...except the door is now closed.

What is the difference now between the wise and the foolish? Remember the foolish went and bought the oil from Jesus...they got filled with the Holy Spirit. They now had enough oil to keep their lamps burning. They are technically no different then the 5 wise virgins who went into the wedding.

BUT now Jesus says that he doesn't know them.

Now that is a strange thing. The Christ of the whole universe by which nothing came into existence without his say...didn't know these 5 virgins? Isn't that odd?

God who knows everything didn't know these virgins?????

What is he saying. They have now fulfilled all the requirements that the 5 wise virgins had fulfilled except one. Jesus didn't know them....and they didn't know him.

Know in the absolute sense of knowing. They were not intimate with him nor was he intimate with them. They could not be his wife because they did not have a deep established, intimate relationship.

Jesus knew who they were...of course....the very hairs of their heads were numbered. Yet they had not sought the Lord in such a way as to become intimate with him so he had to say to them I do not know you.

SO, they didn't get to go into the marriage.

Yet the parable does not stop here. Let's turn over to Luke 12:34-38:

34 "For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
35 "Let your waist be girded and your lamps burning;
36 "and you yourselves be like men who wait for their master, when he will return from the wedding, that when he comes and knocks they may open to him immediately.
37 "Blessed are those servants whom the master, when he comes, will find watching. Assuredly, I say to you that he will gird himself and have them sit down to eat, and will come and serve them.
38 "And if he should come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants.

The parable of the virgins continues here. Jesus says let your lamps be burning...remember this was not the way it was for the 5 foolish virgins until they went and bought oil.

Be waiting and watching....for your master (Jesus)...when he RETURNS FROM THE WEDDING.

Jesus went into the marriage in Matthew 25 and here in Luke 12 he is RETURNING FROM THE WEDDING. This is totally different. The wedding is taking place when he returns OR has taken place when he returns.

Either way it is not the same thing as going into the marriage as in Matthew 25.

Also, note that it says if he comes in the 2nd watch or the 3rd watch. The 1st watch is not mentioned. Why not? Did Jesus make a mistake? Did the Holy Spirit forget to put the first watch in there to goof us up?

No. The 1st watch is not mentioned because it has already taken Matthew 25. The wise virgins went in the 1st watch. Now the foolish who had learned their lesson may be taken up at this point...IF their lamps are burning and their loins girded about.

For now the Master (Jesus) has returned from the wedding to gather more unto himself.

There is more to say...but let this suffice for now. Remembering that we must use the whole of scripture to understand what the Father is saying.
Blessings to all. John Johnson

My reply

I believe that the parable of the 10 virgins refers to two classes of believers, carnal and spiritual. In 1Co 3:1, Paul said, "I, brethren (believers), could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ."

> > Are they all virgins? Yes. They in there standing before the Lord are all virgins. They are clean, undefiled.

I think the wise virgins are clean and wearing white robes of righteousness. They have confessed their sins committed after they accepted Christ, as per I John 1:9. The foolish virgins had all their "old sins" (II Peter1:9) erased when they accepted Christ, just as the wise virgins did. However, the foolish ones have not confessed their sins committed SINCE they accepted Christ.

In John 13:8-10, Peter saith unto him (Jesus), Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, IF I WASH THEE NOT, THOU HAST NO PART WITH ME. Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit." Those that confess their sins are eligible to be wise virgins, for they are wearing the white wedding garment. Heb 12:14 says, "Follow peace with all men, and HOLINESS, WITHOUT WHICH NO MAN SHALL SEE THE LORD."

In Rev. 3:18,19, Jesus told the foolish Laodicean virgins, "I counsel thee to BUY OF ME gold (symbol of deity) tried in the fire (Tribulation), that thou mayest be rich; and WHITE RAIMENT, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and REPENT."

> > Our spirit is made alive by God sending the Spirit of His Son into our spirits to cry Abba Father. It is Jesus that comes to us when we are born again....the Holy Spirit cannot cry Abba Father because the Holy Spirit is not the Son. The Holy Spirit did not die on the cross for us. The Holy Spirit did not shed his blood for us...Jesus did.

The Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ. Rom 8:9 says, "ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his." II Cor. 5:19 says, "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself."

Jesus Christ is the first and last, YHWH king of Israel and YHWH of hosts, the Redeemer. Christ is LORD of the Old Testament and Lord of the New Testament. Isa. 44:6 says, "Thus saith the LORD (YHWH) the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD (YHWH) of hosts; I am the first (YHWH King of Israel), and I am the last (YHWH of hosts, the redeemer); and beside me there is no God."

Rev. 1:8 says, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is (at the Pre-Trib Rapture), and which was (at the First Advent), and which is to come (at the Second Advent), THE ALMIGHTY." In Rev. 22:16, Jesus said, "I am the root (YHWH) and the offspring of David (Jesus)."

Is this important? Yes. In John 8:23-27, Jesus, "said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I AM FROM ABOVE: ye are of this world; I am not of this world. I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for IF YE BELIEVE NOT THAT I AM HE (the Father), YE SHALL DIE IN YOUR SINS. Then said they unto him, Who art thou? And Jesus saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him. They understood not that he spake to them of the Father."

> > Be waiting and watching....for your master (Jesus)...when he RETURNS FROM THE WEDDING.

Luke 12:35,36 is interesting. It says, "Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning; And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from (ek, from the place of; Thayer) the wedding (i.e., from Heaven); that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately."

To the Laodiceans, Jesus said, "As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and REPENT. Behold, I STAND AT THE DOOR, AND KNOCK: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne." (Rev. 3:19-21).

Do the foolish Laodicean virgins repent? Yes. Rev. 7:14 says, "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

The Bride saints are those caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture, plus the 144,000 Israelites caught up in the Pre-Wrath Rapture. Rev. 14:4,5 says, "These are they which were not defiled with women (i.e., harlot churches); for THEY ARE their mouth was found no guile: for THEY ARE WITHOUT FAULT before the throne of God." Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Tu B Av

Thought this might be of interest

"There were no holidays as joyous for the Jewish People as the fifteenth of Av and Yom Kippur " (Mishnah, Taanit)

"Tu B'Av" - The Fifteenth of Av

Ateret Cohanim
The Jerusalem Reclamation Project
Tu B'Av from Tal Chermon, Volume II
by Rabbi Shlomo Aviner, translated by Bracha Slae...

My reply

> > The "Desert Generation" ended.

> > Following the Sin of the Spies, when the people of Israel cried that they would not go to the Land of Israel, the whole generation of Israelites who had left Egypt was sentenced to die in the Desert.

> > Every year until the fortieth year, on the eve of the Ninth of Av, Moshe Rabeinu would command them, "Go out and dig!" They would go out of their desert camp, dig themselves graves, and sleep in them overnight. The next morning, a messenger would proclaim, "Let the living separate from the dead!" About fifteen thousand men would have died that night; the others would return to the camp for another year.

> > In the last, fortieth year, no one died.... > > No more trees were cut down for use on the Holy Altar. > > The wood used to fuel the Holy Altar was dried, since fresh logs might contain worms. After Tu B'Av, the days become shorter and the sun is no longer strong enough to dry out freshly cut logs. Therefore, no more trees were cut down after Tu B'Av, and the day was nicknamed, "Axe-breaking Day" (Ta'anit 31a; Rashi op. cit.).
Thanks. It is very interesting. Dr. Glen Swanson told me these things, but I didn't know the source. Both the digging of graves and Dry Wood Day were new to me. He did say that he had been reading some Jewish writings and talked to a Rabbi.... Agape

Incoming e-mail

Does the Bible mention the differences between being baptized and not being baptized

My reply

Not in those words. A person has to believe in Christ as their own personal Saviour first, then be baptized. It is symbolic of us dying with Christ and being raised up to new life. Agape

Incoming e-mail

You looked into the eclipses and took the time to give a good response to my last note. I'd like to get your thoughts on this as well if you're willing. If I'm right, it could mean that God's plan may mean that those people sentenced to hell may ultimately find Christ at the End and be Rehabilitated. Forever and ever for them would mean till "The end of the age" or to the end of the 1000 years at the final judgment. Many think this is wrong to think about, but It seems like a pretty good plan to me. 1000-6000 years of torture seems like a pretty good wake up call for those that can be saved. For those we know that can't be saved (Satan and the Demons) the end is sure. I've not seen anyone explain it this way, so I don't really know what to do with this information. As I say, I'm interested in your point of view. Your friend in Christ

My reply

If eternity only is to be taken as an age, we're all in big trouble. Our eternal life would only be age-long. That can't be.

Mat 25:46 says, "these shall go away into everlasting (aionios) punishment: but the righteous into life eternal (aionos)." Strong's says of aionos, "From G165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting."

I Cor. 15:42 says that the dead are "raised in incorruption." Then verses 52-55 say, "the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be CHANGED. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on IMMORTALITY. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? Immortality, Gr., athenasia, means deathlessness. Agape

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