Pro and Con 1238

Posted 9-5-05

Venus is pockmarked too

Venus Unveiled - Credit: Magellan Project, JPL, NASA
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html

Is there a connection between evacuating Gaza (strong, fortified) and evacuating New Orleans that had strong fortified levees that were planned to withstand category 3 hurricanes?

Within a few days, we have now heard of houses reduced to rubble in both Gaza and along our Gulf Coast.

I'm so very sorry for the people of New Orleans. We went on a bus tour of the city when we attended the Spring Crest Draperies Convention there. We were shown those huge strong steel gates that would close when a hurricane threatened the city now called the Big Easy. The gates looked like they could withstand any wind, but I forgot to consider the storm surge that could top 22'.

Having had a Doughboy pool 48" across and 4' deep when our two children were young, and having dealt with the liner when some water was in it gave me some perspective on the sheer weight of water. Even what looks to be a inconsequential amount is unbelievably heavy. I can understand the levees giving way because of the storm surge. The combined force of wind and water was deadly.

Was what happened at the Superdome a sign? Think about it. A roadblock was set up, and no one was allowed to walk out. Why? Thousands had to wait to be bussed or FLOWN OUT of the home of the New Orleans SAINTS. These people were taken to the Astrodome in Houston. Astro is from the Greek astron, star (symbol of the planet where Heaven is located?),so it means Stardome. They were given a place that had been prepared for them, a warm welcome, showers, change of clothing, medical treatment, cots (beds), blankets, shampoo, toothbrushes, etc., water and food. Contrasted to the Superdome, the Astrodome was heaven. They could relax in their beds.

I'm reminded of Psa. 149:5. It says, "Let the saints be joyful in glory (i.e., Heaven): let them sing aloud upon their beds."
---
Katrina and Gaza: is God speaking in New Orleans? By Avner Bosky
https://secure.watch.org/showart.php3?idx=71072&rtn=/index.html&showsubj=1&mcat=1

"This is what YHVH says, who gives the sun to be a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars to be a light by night, WHO STIRS UP THE SEA, SO THAT ITS WAVES ROAR; YHVH OF ARMIES IS HIS NAME" (Jer.31:35)... (emphasis mine)
---
Is "THE SEA AND THE WAVES ROARING" a sign of the Rapture?

Jer. 31:35,36 (KJV) says, "Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which DIVIDETH (raga, to toss violently and suddenly) THE SEA when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever."

Luke 21:25-28 says, "there shall be SIGNS in the sun, and in the moon, and in the STARS (astron, properly a constellation, but can be put for a single star); and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; THE SEA AND THE WAVES ROARING; Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then (sixth seal) shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory (the Sign of the Son of Man seen in the sky, Mt. 24:30, Rev. 6:12-14). And WHEN THESE THINGS (signs) BEGIN TO COME TO PASS, THEN LOOK UP, AND LIFT UP YOUR HEADS; FOR YOUR REDEMPTION (apolutrosis, deliverance, i.e., the Pre-Trib Rapture) DRAWETH NIGH."

Bush's Proposals For Palestinian State With 1967 Borders

Former U.S. advisor Aaron Miller says Bush hopes to establish a Palestinian state based on 1967 borders by the end of his term
Yizhak Benhorin 9-3-5 \
http://www.rense.com/general67/bushproposalsforpal.htm

President George W. Bush has developed a no-lose initiative that he hopes to deploy by the end of his administration: a Palestinian state with provisional borders, which includes the Gaza Strip and 85 percent of the West Bank, Aaron Miller claims in an article published in the International Herald Tribune Friday....

Gaza to Katrina A Devastating Two Weeks

By Bill Koenig
https://secure.watch.org/showart.php3?idx=71101&rtn=/index.html&showsubj=1&mcat=1

I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. Genesis 12:3...

Israel completes Gaza evacuation August 22
Ariel Sharon and Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas speak by telephone and express commitment to peace August 22
Gaza home demolitions continue - August 22
A tropical depression forms near the Bahamas August 23
Tropical Storm Katrina forms August 24
Katrina becomes a hurricane August 25
Hurricane Katrina hits southeast Florida August 26
Hurricane Katrina increases in intensity in the Gulf of Mexico - August 27
Russia and China complete their first eight-day military maneuvers August 26
Suicide bomber targets Israeli bus station: Two guards critically wounded in first suicide attack since Gaza withdrawal - August 28
U.S. War on Terror: More costly than 'the war to end all wars' August 29
Sharon: More West Bank settlements would go for peace
Katrina kills 55 in Miss.; governor calls storm a 'grievous blow
' August 29
Katrina floods downtown Mobile, beaches, bayous August 29
Hurricane Katrina could slow U.S. economic expansion August 29
New Orleans facing environmental disaster August 29
Gov. Bush warns residents of gas shortages August 29
Tens of thousands to be homeless for months due to Katrina August 29
American Red Cross launching its largest relief operation August 29...

IN KATRINA'S WAKE

Hurricane hits just before homosexual event
Christian activist: Act of God prevented 'Southern Decadence' festival August 31, 2005
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/printer-friendly.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46076

Hurricane Katrina walloped New Orleans just two days before the annual homosexual "Southern Decadence" festival was to begin in the town, an act being characterized by some as God's work....

Marcavage said. "May this act of God cause us all to think about what we tolerate in our city limits, and bring us trembling before the throne of Almighty God."

Abbas looks for peace talks to resume

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/APWires/international/D8CCU3MG0.html

GAZA - Palestinian leader Mahmoud Abbas said Saturday that Mideast peace talks should resume immediately after Israel completes its Gaza withdrawal and expressed hope that a Palestinian state will be established by next year....

Incoming e-mail, Re: Marylin Agee on RAPTURE and TRIBULATION

Ed (23 Aug 2005)
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/aug2005/ed823.htm

Hi Marylin, I'll just make comments as they come.

First, I think it's peculiar that you don't consider it a 'Return' of Jesus, when Jesus is finally here on the cloud to meet us in the air. Why is it not a return? Just because he doesn't set foot on the surface of the earth, it's not a return?

Aren't we all waiting for Jesus to come again on the cloud to gather us up? If he does that, then he has RETURNED to earth, our world! Finally he has come again to gather us!!

If he appears on the sky on the clouds, the very air in which airplanes fly, wouldn't you say "Look! Jesus is here!" Why Jesus present on the atmosphere of the earth is considered any different from him setting his foot on soil? I just don't know why. If an airplane lifts up from the ground, is it considered to be vanished from our world?

Or, are you saying Jesus cannot be physically present on the cloud? Sure he can! There is no verse in the Bible that says, he will only return in his spirit, not his body, on the cloud. Rather, it says he will come on the cloud in all his glory and everyone including unbelievers will see him.

According to your explanation, Jesus returns to the earth to gather us up before the tribulation, and goes away, and comes back again to the earth and gather us for the second time, and goes away yet again, and comes back... again... and this time he touches down on the mountain. And you'd only call the touching down part the '2nd' advent (i.e, Jesus is physically present in our world). I would say that's the 4th advent.

See how it becomes messy when you try to put the Rapture before the Tribulation? In trying to fit the Rapture before the Tribulation, you have to somehow make the rapture event not qualified as a 'return' of Jesus because the '2nd advent' will have to come later, but in fact in your theory Jesus goes back and forth several times. Then, what about the parable of 10 virgins? In that parable aren't the virgins waiting for Jesus to come and take them away? It just does not make sense. Everything gets messy and disarrayed.

Last and foremost, your explanation is differenent from and conflict with the teaching of Jesus.

In the Olivet Discours, the teaching of Jesus on the Rapture, Jesus says he will return on the cloud to gather us after the Tribulation. In your theory, Jesus comes on the cloud (and you say this is not a return, still.. it puzzles me why you wouldn't consider it as a return) to gather us up before the Tribulation. Then if he comes again at the day of the Lord, as you suggest, on what will he come? Will he come again on the cloud at the day of the Lord, same as he did at the day of the Christ?

In his teaching, he only returns once. Please do not add to his teaching. Just believe what Jesus says. See how it becomes redundent and results in a vastly different teaching than Jesus' by adding to his teaching?

He will not rapture his saints before the reign and persecution by the Beast. He has no reason to. Did he rapture saints before the persecution by the communists? It's no different this time, except the Beast will restrict buying and selling to only those who received his mark, and that it will be world wide. Ask the saints who were tortured by the communist. They will say it's no different than anything the Beast will have in store for the captured saints.

Be assured; we the saints will be persecuted by the Beast. But, there will be those kept from the hour of trial. Not everyone will be caught and tortured to death. Many who watched and asked guidance will escape the grasp of the Beast and wait for Jesus' return, unharmed. Ed, esohn@hanmail.com

My reply

If you want to call the two Raptures Jesus' COMING IN THE AIR, and the two Advents Jesus' COMING TO EARTH, that's ok. Just make a clear distinction between the two Raptures and the two Advents. The two Raptures are sandwiched between the two Advents.

(1) First Advent, Jesus' coming to Earth,, seen by many on Earth
(2) First Rapture, Jesus' coming in the air, seen only by the Bride saints
(3) Second Rapture, Jesus' coming in the air, the Sign of the Son of Man seen by many
(4) Second Advent, Jesus' coming to Earth, every eye will see him

Rev 1:7 says, "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him."

> > what about the parable of 10 virgins? In that parable aren't the virgins waiting for Jesus to come and take them away?

Yes. The wise virgins are the Bride of Christ. We will go with the Bridegroom when He comes at the Pre-Trib Rapture.

The foolish virgins are among the "great multitude" that come "out of great tribulation (at the Pre-Wrath Rapture), and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb: (Rev. 7:9).

Between the Pre-Wrath Rapture, before noon on the Day of God's Wrath, and the Second Advent are 7 months.

God's wrath is seen in Eze. 38:18-20. The dead lay around the world. Afterward, Eze 39:12,13 says, "SEVEN MONTHS shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified (at the Second Advent), saith the Lord GOD."

> > In the Olivet Discours, the teaching of Jesus on the Rapture, Jesus says he will return on the cloud to gather us after the Tribulation.

You might misunderstand the meaning of Mt. 24:30,31. It says, "he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of HEAVEN to the other."

That is not the first Rapture. It happened before the Tribulation started. That is why these saints are gathered from one end of HEAVEN to the other. They are already in Heaven. They have to be gathered to the General Assembly in Heaven (Heb. 12:23), because this is the Day of the Lord. In Heaven, it is the day of the Coronation of Christ, the Marriage of the Lamb, and the Judgment Seat of Christ. On Earth, it is the Day of Destruction, the Day of God's Wrath.

Since "God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ" (I Thess 5:9), we won't be on Earth that day. Instead, we will be in Heaven taking part in the Marriage of the Lamb.

Mark 13:27 also speaks of that time, but with a difference. It says, "then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH to the uttermost part of HEAVEN." At the same time that the Bride saints are being gathered in Heaven, the Pre-Wrath Rapture takes place. The Tribulation saints are to be gathered to the General Assembly in Heaven, because they too are to receive their rewards while the unbelievers left on Earth receive the Wrath of God.

Rev. 11:17,18 says, "We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art (on the Day of the Lord), and wast (at the First Advent), and art to come (7 months in the future, at the Second Advent on Nisan 1 in a Jewish Leap Year); because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned (on the Feast of Trumpets, as the 7 months started). And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged (at the Judgment Seat of Christ), and that thou shouldest GIVE REWARD UNTO THY SERVANTS THE PROPHETS, AND TO THE SAINTS (all of them, including the saints of both Raptures), AND THEM THAT FEAR THY NAME, SMALL AND GREAT; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."

> > He will not rapture his saints before the reign and persecution by the Beast.

Then why does Rev. 13:6 say of the Beast, "he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and THEM THAT DWELL IN HEAVEN"?

The Pre-Trib Rapture has just happened. The Beast was left behind. That is why he blasphemes both God and the Bride saints that are in Heaven. How would you feel if you were thought to be a great spiritual leader and got left behind? Isn't that the ultimate snub? Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: The Decree of Artaxerxes: Is It a Key to the Date of the Crucifixion?

Routinely, I look at the Biblical Archeology Website. I've seen lots of good scholarship there. Knowing your feelings about Our Lord's day of Crucifixion, I thought I'd send this long article on to you. Thank you for your work!

Would you thank God for all the improvement I've had. Ask Him for more healing. Ask the Lord to find a job for me? Agape, Mike

My reply

Thanks for the article. I'm praying for you. Others will too.

> > The Decree of Artaxerxes: Is It a Key to the Date of the Crucifixion?
> > Does the decree of Persian king Artaxerxes at Ezra 7:11-26 provide the key to the Crucifixion date? Or is it the Decree of Nehemiah 2:1-8? Does Ezra or Nehemiah contain a commandment to go forth and rebuild Jerusalem prophesied by Daniel? Or, have you been misinformed?
> > by Michael P. Germano...

> > The data imply that the intent of the decree issued by Cyrus II was to rebuild the Temple at Jerusalem. It was not permission to rebuild the city per se nor its walls but limited specifically to Temple reconstruction. Consequently it was not the one spoken of in Daniel 9:25....

In my mind, it has to be the decree of Cyrus, whether it is recorded elsewhere or not. We have the Lord's sure word on it. When the Creator of the heavens and the Earth says it, that settles it.

Isa. 44:24-28 says, "Thus saith the LORD (YHWH), thy redeemer (Christ, the YHWH of hosts, the Redeemer, Isa. 44:6), and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things (John 1:3); that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself; That frustrateth the tokens of the liars, and maketh diviners mad; that turneth wise men backward, and maketh their knowledge foolish; That confirmeth the word of his servant, and performeth the counsel of his messengers; that saith to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be inhabited; and to the cities of Judah, Ye shall be built, and I will raise up the decayed places thereof: That saith to the deep, Be dry, and I will dry up thy rivers: That saith of CYRUS, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: EVEN SAYING TO JERUSALEM, THOU SHALT BE BUILT; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid."

Also, when Dan. 9:25,26 makes a statement about how long it is between the decree and the Crucifixion (483 years), it is the truth. It says, "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself." 483 - BC 454 + 1 [no zero yr] = 30 AD.

Why isn't it plain enough for all to figure it out? Only the wise shall understand. Dan 12:10 says, "Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand."

Isa. 28:13 says, "the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; HERE A LITTLE, AND THERE A LITTLE; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken."

A friend told his children that it was as if the Lord cut scripture into sections and then put them back together in different order. It takes study and the Holy Spirit's help to figure it out. No wonder 2Ti 2:15 says, "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Interesting

...Question: Do you have a formal degree and where did you study the bible? Its apparent the WORD is your life for many decades but How did you get to know the bible so well.

I'm the type that never reads an operators manual. If I need to,,, I skim through it, sometimes starting from the end. My formal study, post high school stuff (many years ago), included some theology, philosphy etc. But I ended up becoming a Criminal Investigator. I'll be at the 30 year career mark soon.

I can see God's plan in the bible much better, when you explain it. You are unique, in listing various parts of the bible pertaining to events such as the rapture etc.

So its an enjoyment for me to read your information.

I also rely on our parish priests when they explain the Scripture.

My reply

Thanks for your kind words.

> > Question: Do you have a formal degree and where did you study the bible? Its apparent the WORD is your life for many decades but How did you get to know the bible so well.

No formal degree. I just graduated from High School, and went to work to get a PHT (pushed husband through) while Ed got his college degrees. We lived in a trailer on campus at Univ. of Tennessee.

On board a military ship coming home from Japan some time after their surrender in WW II, Ed prayed for a Christian wife. The Lord arranged it, but he had to get my Dad transferred from Indiana to Kingsport Tennessee.

When WW II was underway, my dad quit teaching for awhile and became a Safety Engineer at Vigo Ordinance, Terre Haute, Indiana. From there, he became the Safety Engineer of Holston Ordinance Works in Kingsport, Tennessee. We lived in Staff Quarters at HOW, 4 miles out of town.

Ed's stepfather also worked at HOW and was living in the Staff Quarters. When Ed came home from service, we met when we got off the bus and walked up the winding road to the Staff Quarters. After we married, we went to Knoxville and lived on campus.

After Ed graduated, he worked at Oak Ridge, TN for 4 years. Then we moved to California, as his folks had done. We bought a house in La Mirada, CA. Soon the Bible Institute of Los Angeles built the La Mirada Campus, as the Lord knew they would. It was within bike riding distance of our house.

I had started reading the Bible and using the library at Bethany Baptist Church. When I had read all I wanted to there, I got my library card at BIOLA's library. I spent 7 years reading about an 18" stack of books from the Seminary Collection every week.

I was searching for answers to my questions: Who are the cherubim, and what is the flaming sword that was placed to the east of the Garden of Eden. In that 7 years, I didn't find one author I could believe knew what they were. They either left that part out or went off an a fanciful trip I couldn't believe.

After that, I opened my Bible, put my hands on it and said, "Lord, you're going to have to show me. I want to know all the deep things, everything you want man to know about the Bible." A friend loaned me her Strong's Concordance. I used that and the Bible mostly after that. Later on, our daughter and her husband gave me half the money for a Strong's Concordance of my own. We put in the rest.

At first, I used Ed's Portable Typewriter on a rickety card table in the corner of the kitchen. For my 40th birthday, my husband got me a big Olympic Electric Typewriter and a desk, and we made the garage into my study room, plus I taught Good News Club there.

I never quit studying. It was the way of life for me, and I wrote as I studied. My dad had taught me to outline as I studied.

I had the solid background from reading all those books from BIOLA's Seminary Collection to build on. From there on, I have studied on my own. I have read every version of the Bible that I could get my hands on. Something new would come clear just because translators used a different word. Besides that, the more one knows about the Bible as a whole, the more can be understood when examining a single passage.

Writing helps me. I learn as I write. For me, it is much better than leaving vague things floating around in my head. Dad taught me to organize. I wrote a piece for a contest in High School. I showed it to Dad. He said to rewrite it and put everything about one subject in a paragraph. I won the Essay Writing Contest, thanks to his simple suggestion.

Now, I have downloaded the free e-Sword on my computer. I run searches for certain words and phrases in the Bible, and read everything on that subject. It is amazing how that helps. I hit Compare to see a certain verse in several versions of the Bible. It is a valuable tool. I'm going there now to DL another version of the Bible.
http://esword.com/
Agape

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