Pro and Con 1241

Posted 9-16-05

Northern Lights



Clinton-Soros initiative at U.N. summit
'Vacuum' caused by United Nations corruption creating new power center By Mary Jo Anderson, 9-15-05

...Like the U.N., the Clinton Global Initiative has set for itself some of the same lofty goals: poverty; enhancing governance; climate change; and religion, conflict, and reconciliation....

The Clinton Global Initiative finds religion to be "a chief engine of deadly conflict, providing immediate pretext and overall context ." Yet, people of faith are wary of those who preach peace by fingering religion as the source of "deadly conflict." In light of the CGI's goal of an "integrated global community of shared benefits, responsibilities, and values," a looming question is, whose religious "values" will this "integrated global community" demand?...

The advisory board for the Enhancing Governance track includes a man prominent in most conspiracy theories George Soros of the Open Society Foundation. Soros' presence is considered ominous among defenders of American sovereignty.

One blog site summed up the Clinton-Soros axis this way: "If the United Nations is shifting away from the Annan legacy, but Clinton-Soros move into the vacuum, we are left with the same globalist mentality. That is not government 'enhancement,' but entrapment."

My comment

That sounds like end-time "entrapment."

Incoming e-mail, Re: Solar Storms

According to

"Solar activity is very high. Earth-orbiting satelites have detected five X-class solar flares since Sept. 7th, including one X17-class monster-flare. NOAA forecasters say there's a 75% chance of more X-flares during the next 24 hours, possibly causing radio blackouts and radiation storms."

The sunspot responsible in #798. Strong's Concordance says word 798 is from the plural of 794 'ashedah' which means 'springs', the fem. form of 793 'eshed which means "to pour, an outpouring:-stream.'

I pray you and all believers survive these 'storms' unscathed . The only way is by being rooted, DEEPLY ROOTED and grounded in HIS WORD!!!

Thank you for being an example of this to us all. The study of scripture is a daily need. Just as food and water is required to sustain the body, we must continually 'eat and drink' the Word to sustain our spiritual selves.

Be strong and be strengthened! His bondservant

My reply

Thanks much. Here is the picture of the monster flare of 9-7-05 I found at:

Incoming e-mail, RE: Raptures

An important anniversary is coming up soon, for me. Well actually it is for all of you also. Its coming up on a year since I returned to the church and re-ignited my faith. Beyond a year ago, I was the worst sinner, transgressor, materialistic, person you could imagine.

After I confessed my sins for the first time in many years, the priest asked, "why or what made me return". I really couldnt answer him at the time. I was just so happy to get to confession.

Now I could answer the priest if he asked again. A year later and hind sight is 20/20.

Actually, it was YOUR PRAYERS for US SINNERS (the lost sheep type) that led me back to the Church.

Thank You All Very Much.


Your email response to my question about "rewards" in Heaven really attests to God's Love for us and its a "Free Gift" "For Eternity".

God Save me, Jesus Enlightens me, the Holy Spirit is my Life, because of this, I fear nothing.

My reply

Let's go back to square one, faith in Christ as our own personal Saviour, and then build on that so you can see the sequence of events and be able to share your faith to others. We should go by what the Bible tells us rather than what people tell us we should do. Let's see what it says.

In 2Co 5:7, the apostle Paul said, "WE WALK BY FAITH, NOT BY SIGHT". Membership in an earthly church does not save us. Going to church does not save us. Baptism does not save us. It is our faith in Christ that saves us. It is as Paul said in 1Co 3:11, "other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ."

Rom. 1:16,17 says, "I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth...For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, THE JUST SHALL LIVE BY FAITH."

In Romans 10:9,10, Paul said, "if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the LORD JESUS, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation." We should tell someone that we believe in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus is Lord. He is both God and man. In John 1:1-3, he is called the Word, because he speaks for God. It says, "and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." John 1:14 adds, "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth."

2Cor. 5:19 is very clear. It says, "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself."

When we accept Christ, all our "old sins" are wiped off the slate. We get a fresh start. Any sins committed after we accept Christ as our own personal Saviour need to be confessed, not to man, but to God. Only God can forgive sins. Only God knows sins that are unknown to us.

I John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins (i.e., known sins), he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins (known sins), AND to cleanse us from ALL unrighteousness" (unknown sins).

Mt. 28:19 says, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in THE NAME (one name) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost." The three are one, and they come together in the Lord Jesus Christ.

Acts 19:5 says, "they were baptized in THE NAME of the Lord Jesus." He is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Rom 8:9 says, "ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his."

Acts 4:10,12 says, "by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth...Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Heb 13:5 says, "Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he (Jesus) hath said, I WILL NEVER LEAVE THEE, nor forsake thee."

When we first believe, at that very moment, Jesus baptizes us with the Spirit of Christ, which is the same as the Holy Spirit. The Spirit of Christ lives within us, and knows our "thoughts and intents of the heart."

Heb. 4:12 says, "the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart."

Our baptism in water is symbolic. Following our accepting Christ as our own personal Saviour, it portrays that we died with Christ and are raised up to a new life.

We are only to pray to the Father in the name of Jesus Christ.

John 14:13 says, "whatsoever ye shall ASK IN MY NAME, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son." Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Rapture

I don't think what I've written is Universalism, I got this from the Bible before I even knew what that was. Baptist's also teach that setting dates for the Rapture is wrong, but I think, as you do, that the Bible says differently. It says to watch. I've seen Baptists (I am too) use this very interpretation of Age, to prove dispensationalism. I don't agree with everything in the definition, there are many other Greek Scholars that say simply "to the end of the age", as one of the meanings for these terms. From what I can gather, Universalists seem to say do what you want with no consequences. I say Hell is a real consequence that you would be better off saved from. Better to pluck your eyes out than go. In the parable of the Wicked Servant, the servant is placed in "Prison" until his debt is paid. But nowhere in the current doctrine of Hell can you pay you debt. I believe faith in Christ pays the debt before you go to Prison, or I can even see this life as a "Prison" of sorts, but I just think there is more.

For instance, take the Muslims. They are a devout people, mentioned in the Bible as being a Thorn in Isreal's side. This was appointed by God, what choice do they have. Some are saved through the knowlege and Faith in Christ, but far too many will never listen. They wait for the Messiah to come to them through the flames after they have been purified. What if Hell is this place and God has not forsaken them either.

Take the Jews - They were waiting and still wait for the Messiah to come at Armegeddon, when he comes, the ones that lived until then will in effect be right. But they will have learned the error of their ways up until then. What about the ones that died before, that never had that chance?

I think God's plan makes perfect sense. There is Sin, there is forgiveness through Christ, there is and Eternal Heaven, there is a Hell for atonement of Sin (I guess this is more similar to Catholic Purgatory that what Universalist's believe, although I don't think Purgatory is a good description or good doctrine). The verses you've shown, point to the Everlasting Kingdom of Heaven, the Everlasting Christ, I agree with that interpretation.

If we have died to sin, we are already dead. When our Body dies, we will be in Paradise, waiting for the end. For those that die in sin, there is Hell. Both places are described, taking place before the White Throne Judgement. Hell is described as a "Prison", I think Christ can set those prisoner free.

The only ones that I know for sure can't be saved would be Satan and the Demons.

I appreciate you taking the time to respond. In Christ

My reply

> > In the parable of the Wicked Servant, the servant is placed in "Prison" until his debt is paid. But nowhere in the current doctrine of Hell can you pay you debt.

That parable isn't teaching about Hell, it is teaching us to forgive. Mt. 18:21-30 says, "Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I FORGIVE him? till seven times? Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven. Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants. And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents. But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made. The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt. But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest. And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all. And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt." The lesson is that since the Lord forgives us, we should forgive our fellow man. Hell isn't mentioned, and we shouldn't build a doctrine about Hell from it.

Luke 12:45,46 tells us about an unwise steward. He is cut off from the Bride group being taken to Heaven in the first Rapture and left on Earth to endure the Tribulation. It says, "if that servant say in his heart, My lord (i.e., he is a believer) delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; The lord of that servant (a foolish virgin) will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him his portion (the Tribulation) WITH THE UNBELIEVERS."

Mt. 24:51 adds, "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion (the Tribulation) with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

> > the Muslims. They are a devout people, mentioned in the Bible as being a Thorn in Isreal's side. This was appointed by God, what choice do they have.

God doesn't coerce them. He just knows everything in advance. He is omniscient. The muslims have the right to make a choice, as we do, will they or won't they believe in Jesus Christ. They choose not to. However, this is not always the case. Some do come out of that religion and accept Christ.

> > What about the ones that died before, that never had that chance?

The Lord has provided for everyone. 1Pe 3:18-20 says, "Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also HE WENT AND PREACHED UNTO THE SPIRITS IN PRISON; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water."

> > there is a Hell for atonement of Sin

The Bible doesn't say that. We shouldn't build a doctrine upon what is not stated in Scripture. There is atonement only through Jesus Christ. Acts 4:12 says, "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

> > When our Body dies, we will be in Paradise, waiting for the end.

Paradise is now in Heaven.

In the KJV, the word "paradise" only appears three times. Luke 23:43 says, "Jesus said unto him (one of the thieves crucified with Jesus), Verily I say unto thee, To day (Thursday) shalt thou be with me in PARADISE." On that day, both went to Paradise in the heart of the Earth. Then on Resurrection Day (Sunday) Jesus took Paradise and its contents to Heaven. It is there now.

In 2Co 12:2-6, Paul said, "I knew a man (Paul himself) in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to THE THIRD HEAVEN (i.e., Mars, Jupiter and Saturn). And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) How that he was caught up into PARADISE, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter. Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities. For though I would desire to glory, I shall not be a fool; for I will say the truth: but now I forbear, lest any man should think of me above that which he seeth me to be, or that he heareth of me."

Rev 2:7 says, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the PARADISE of God" (i.e., Heaven).

> > we will be in Paradise, waiting for the end. For those that die in sin, there is Hell. Both places are described, taking place before the White Throne Judgement.

The dead in Christ will be raised at the First Resurrection, of which there are two ranks (I Cor. 15:23), the two Raptures, the Pre-Trib Rapture and the Pre-Wrath Rapture. Our judgment is the Judgment Seat of Christ. It takes place on the first day of Christ's millennial reign, which is the day of the Pre-Wrath Rapture. We will be in Paradise in Heaven.

Nothing is said about us being at the Great White Throne Judgment at the end of the Millennium. If we are there, it will be only as spectators. Those being judged there are raised up in the Second Resurrection.

Rev. 20:11-15 says, "I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and DEATH AND HELL delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And DEATH AND HELL were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Agape

Incoming email, Re: Fw: Interesting Verse

Marilyn here is an email I sent to a study friend:

Stephen, I am currently reading/studying your book Creation's Jubilees re Aionian ('eternal') life, etc.

Here is a very interesting verse, that came to mind as I was reading your book. It shows there is a difference in the teaching of Paul of immortality verses eternal life.

I really never understood WHY the verse seemed to be 'redundant ie saying the same thing......whereas it is not.

Romans 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

This verse seems to be saying that the reward for those seeking the right things will be 'eternal life' ie life in the Tabernacles age.

My reply

> > book. It shows there is a difference in the teaching of Paul of immortality verses eternal life.

I don't think there is much difference. If one is immortal, he can't die, so he has eternal life.

1 Cor. 15:51-55 says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump (i.e., at the time of the 2nd Rapture): for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and WE SHALL BE CHANGED (made immortal). For this corruptible must put on incorruption (we are raised in incorruption, I Cor. 15:42), and this mortal must put on immortality (athanasia, deathlessness, put on at the time of Rapture 2). So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?"

Not having read the book you are referring to, I don't know exactly what you mean by "the Tabernacles age." To me, eternal life means unending existence, not just an age that has an ending point. Also, I think an age is 2000 years, so the 1000-year kingdom doesn't seem to be an age. It is a 1000-year day. To me, there are three Ages, the Age of the Gentiles, the Age of the Jews, and the Age of the Church.

The verse you quoted, Rom. 2:7, is a good verse to help us understand that the Greek word aion can mean everlasting.

Below is Rom. 2:7 with some of the context and meaning of the words "immortality" and "eternal" from Strong's. The Bible interprets itself. Often, we are given another word that shows what aionos means. Eternal means immortality. If we can't die, we will live eternally.

Rom. 2:5-10 says, "God; Who will render to every man according to his deeds: To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and IMMORTALITY [aphtharsia, 'unending existence'], ETERNAL [aionios, 'perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well): - eternal, for ever, everlasting'] life: But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile; But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile."

> > I really never understood WHY the verse seemed to be 'redundant ie saying the same thing......whereas it is not.

It is saying the same thing using different words so we will translate "aionios" correctly.

That helps us understand Mat 25:46. It says, "these shall go away into EVERLASTING(aionios) punishment: but the righteous into life ETERNAL(aionos)." It is translated correctly. There is eternal punishment and eternal life that lasts forever. John 3:15,16 says, "whosoever believeth in him should NOT PERISH, but have ETERNAL(aionios) life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should NOT PERISH, but have EVERLASTING (aionos) life." Not perishing shows us how we should take aionos here.

John 10:28 says, "I give unto them ETERNAL (aionios) life; and they shall NEVER PERISH, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." If something never perishes, it is eternal.

Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and IMMORTALITY (aphtharsia), ETERNAL (aionios) life".

We know that God is eternal and immortal forever. 1Tim 1:17 says, "Now unto the King ETERNAL (aion), IMMORTAL (aphthartos), invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory FOR EVER AND EVER (eis aion aion). Amen. The Greek aion is used to describe the eternal God. Agape

Re: Tomb of Cyrus

The International Committee to Save the Archeological
By Mark Dankof

North Wales, PA, Sept 2, 05 - The International Committee to Save the Archeological Sites of Pasargadae faces a daunting task: trying to protect the tomb of Cyrus the Great and the ancient ruins of Persepolis in Iran from the impending plans of the Islamic Republic of Iran (IRI) regime to erase both from physical existence, as well as from the historical memories of Persian and non-Persian alike.

...the Dam threatens to submerge the artifacts of the ancient Achaemenid kings of Persia under a wall of water, which would wreak fatal, catastrophic damage to the remaining physical evidence of the Achaemenid period. It was in this era (539 B. C. to 330 B. C.) that Persia reached its zenith of power and influence in history, as evidenced by the Cylinder of the Declaration of Universal Human Rights bequeathed to the world by King Cyrus.

Incoming e-mail, Re: 360 vs. 365

Perhaps it may be possible that the length of the year has not always been 365.25 days.

Perhaps prior to the Flood, the year was 360 days long. After the Flood, when the Earth was moved - Isaiah 13:13 - the Earth's orbit became 365.25.

How would this recalculate your timeline(s)?

What do you think? I hope you are doing well. God bless you.

My reply

It's good to hear from you again. We're hanging in there. Ed is 82 and has Parkinson's Disease. He can hardly walk, but does the best he can. I'll be 77 in December. I told him I bet he was glad he married someone younger than himself, so I could take care of him. He can't drive. I have to do all of that. That's one thing he doesn't mind giving up. He never did like to drive. He did it because he had to.

Personally, I don't think the year was 360 days long before Noah's Flood. I think the 30-day month and 360-day year were used as estimates. They are still used today to figure interest for a quick estimate. As the true days roll by, the interest figure is corrected. We pay true interest, not the estimated amount.

Notice how Noah gave the number of the month and the day of the month when he entered the Ark. He knew that, because he had seen the Crescent Moon as that month began. After it started to storm and rain, he just counted the 150 days while he couldn't see the Moon. As soon as the clouds cleared and he could see the Crescent Moon, he again gave the time in terms of the month number and the day number.

Isa. 13:5-13 takes place on the still future Day of the Lord that is also the Day of God's Wrath. It says, "They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the LORD, and the weapons of his indignation, to destroy the whole land. Howl ye; for the DAY OF THE LORD is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty. Therefore shall all hands be faint, and every man's heart shall melt: And they shall be afraid: pangs and sorrows shall take hold of them; they shall be in pain as a woman that travaileth: they shall be amazed one at another; their faces shall be as flames. Behold, the DAY OF THE LORD cometh, cruel both with WRATH and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine."And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible. I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. Therefore I will shake the heavens, and THE EARTH SHALL REMOVE OUT OF HER PLACE, IN THE WRATH OF THE LORD OF HOSTS, AND IN THE DAY OF HIS FIERCE ANGER."

Psa 99:1 shows that the earth will be moved on the first day of Christ's kingdom, the great and terrible Day of the Lord. It says, "The LORD REIGNETH; let the people tremble: he sitteth between the cherubims; LET THE EARTH BE MOVED."

> > How would this recalculate your timeline(s)?

Nothing would change. Surely, from Daniel's day to now, the year has been about 365.24 days. God bless. Agape

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Updated 9-16-05