Pro and Con 1252

Posted 10-30-05

Incoming email, Re: Why is the "blood" of Christ clean ?

"Christ" = "Messiah" = "Massih" in Arabic

The origin of "Massih" is "Ma sa ha" = "anoint" (clean) "Massih" means "who is anoint" (the anoint one)

Sometimes it is translated to "anointed", but it is wrong ! "Massih" had no sin from the beginning that needs to be "anointed" from it! But, How !?

------- Birth of "Christ"

Although Christ became human, he is "Word of God" and "Spirit" from Him, too. [sura 4:171]

When did he born really !?
What does "Word of God" means !?
(At first there should be somebody in order to say something (word). In John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
I think something here is mis-understood and mis-translated in past. I think it was "Word was (from) God". It said "in the beginning" (at first - talking about TIME) which refers to the beginning of "creation" (through God's Word), because God has no beginning but he had "ever been"!)

John - Chapter 8
42: Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.

1 John - Chapter 4
3: And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4: Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

Word of (who is) "True"(God) is Truth
Word of " "Live" " is Life
...
God is who both "creator" and "not created" (--> God is unlimited --> "One"). So, making any "image" or "idol"(=flesh) of God is not correct.

As in [sura 5:11]*, Christ is creator but he is created. (Word is created by who speak)

If I want to be honest about what does "Word of God" exactly means then I should say: "I CAN NOT understand"!

[Luke - Chapter 24]
19: And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:

------- First coming in Bethlehem

[sura 3 : 59]
The example of Jesus as far as God is concerned is the same as that of Adam; He created him from dust then said to him Be and he was.

* "Christ" got human flesh, but not from "Adam descendant" and his sin!

[Luke - Chapter 21]
41: And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son? 42: And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 43: Till I make thine enemies thy footstool. 44: David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?

-------- The "blood"

[sura 4 : 157]
And for claiming that they killed the Messiah Jesus son of Mary the messenger of God. In fact they never killed him they never crucified him-they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain they never killed him.

[sura 3 : 55]
Thus God said O Jesus I am terminating your life (die) raising you to Me and ridding you of the disbelievers ...

[sura 19:29,33]
But she pointed to the babe. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?"
(He said) "So peace is on me the day I was born, the day that I die, and the day that I shall be raised up to life (again)"!

[Luke - Chapter 24]
7: Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

* Based on Qura'n:
Although he died and resurrected, but if he did not crucified then what is the "blood" refers to (in the scripture, specially in prophecy) ? What did happen ?

I think it refers to his "blood" (at last night) consider to Bible itself which dropped on the "stone".

There is no mention about the event and what did happen, in Qura'n. Maybe it was somebody else crucified. (Even from God, similar to Abraham, his son and the goat - e.g. an angel in human flesh (?)) (I am astonished why Vatican is so loyal to the story of crucifixion and its symbol !!!)

[Luke - Chapter 22]
42: Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. 43: And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. 44: And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground. 45: And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow,

-----------

[sura 5 : 110]
God will say O Jesus son of Mary remember My blessings upon you and your mother. I supported you with the Holy Spirit to enable you to speak to the people from the crib as well as an adult. I taught you the scripture wisdom the Torah and the Gospel. Recall that you created from clay the shape of a bird by My permission then blew into it and it became a live bird by My permission. You healed the blind and the leprous by My permission and revived the dead by My permission. Recall that I protected you from the Children of Israel who wanted to hurt you despite the profound miracles you had shown them. The disbelievers among them said `This is obviously magic.'

-----------

Mark - Chapter 14
34: And saith unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful unto death: tarry ye here, and watch.
35: And he went forward a little, and fell on the ground, and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him.
36: And he said, Abba, Father, all things are possible unto thee; take away this cup from me: nevertheless not what I will, but what thou wilt.
37: And he cometh, and findeth them sleeping, and saith unto Peter, Simon, sleepest thou? couldest not thou watch one hour?
38: Watch ye and pray, lest ye enter into temptation. The spirit truly is ready, but the flesh is weak.
39: And again he went away, and prayed, and spake the same words.
40: And when he returned, he found them asleep again, (for their eyes were heavy,) neither wist they what to answer him.
41: And he cometh the third time, and saith unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest: it is enough, the hour is come; behold, the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners.
42: Rise up, let us go; lo, he that betrayeth me is at hand.

[John 7:33-34]
I am with you for only a short time, and then I go to the one who sent me. You will look for me, but you will not find me, and where I am, you cannot come.

My reply

> > Sometimes it is translated to "anointed", but it is wrong !
"Massih" had no sin from the beginning that needs to be "anointed" from it! > > But, How !?

It doesn't have to mean getting rid of sin. David was anointed to be king of Israel. Jesus was anointed to be Messiah.

In the Old Testament of the Bible, 2Sa 23:1,2 says, "Now these be the last words of David. David the son of Jesse said, and the man who was raised up on high, THE ANOINTED of the God of Jacob, and the sweet psalmist of Israel, said, The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, and his word was in my tongue."

It has nothing to do with sin there. David was ANOINTED to be King in Israel.

Anointed is Strong's Hebrew 4899, ma^shi^yach, From H4886; anointed; usually a consecrated person (as a king, priest, or saint); specifically the Messiah: - anointed, Messiah.

The root H4886 is ma^shach. A primitive root; to rub with oil, that is, to anoint; by implication to consecrate; also to paint: - anoint, paint.

In Luke 4:18-21, in the New Testament of the Bible, Jesus said, "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath ANNOINTED me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears." The word translated anointed is Strong's Greek 5548, chrioŻ, Probably akin to G5530 through the idea of contact; to smear or rub with oil, that is, (by implication) TO CONSECRATE TO AN OFFICE OR RELIGIOUS SERVICE: - anoint.

God chose David to be king, and God chose Jesus to be Messiah.

> > When did he born really !?

Jesus was born Tishri 1, 3757 (Monday, September 4, BC 5, Julian). He died to take the punishment we were due for our sins on Nisan 13, 3790 (Thursday, April 6, 30 AD, Julian). He was resurrected from the dead on Sunday, Nisan 16, the Feast of Firstfruits. He is the Saviour of all mankind, and there is no other. For his offer of salvation to apply to each of us, we each have to accept Him as our Saviour.

Romans 10:9,10 says, "if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

> > What does "Word of God" means !?
(At first there should be somebody in order to say something (word). In John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God." I think something here is mis-understood and mis-translated in past. I think it was "Word was (from) God". It said "in the beginning" (at first - talking about TIME) which refers to the beginning of "creation" (through God's Word), because God has no beginning but he had "ever been"!)

It is not mistranslated. The third verse goes on to say, "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." He was the creator in Genesis 1. The first verse of the Bible says, "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

Hebrews 1:1,2 says, "God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets, Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, BY WHOM ALSO HE MADE THE WORLDS."

Revelation 19:13 says of Jesus, "he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and HIS NAME IS CALLED THE WORD OF GOD." When he speaks, it can be God speaking. You see, "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself" (II Corinthians 5:19). Since Jesus had two complete natures, man and God, he could speak as man, and he could speak as God.

Actually, Jesus is called many names. Isaiah 9:6 says, "For unto us a child is born (inheriting his humanity from his virgin mother), unto us a son is given (inheriting his deity from his Father): and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and HIS NAME SHALL BE CALLED WONDERFUL, COUNSELLOR, THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, THE PRINCE OF PEACE."

> > As in [sura 5:11]*, Christ is creator but he is created. (Word is created by who speak)

God that is in Christ is not created. He is eternal. The human body of Jesus is created from the seed of the woman, a virgin. In Genesis 3:15, God said, "I will put enmity between thee (Satan) and the woman, and between thy seed (the Satan -possessed False Prophet of the end times) and HER SEED (Jesus); it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise HIS (masculine, showing that her seed is a man) heel." The heel of Jesus was bruised at the crucifixion.

> > If I want to be honest about what does "Word of God" exactly means then I should say: "I CAN NOT understand"!

There is a remedy for that. If you accept Jesus Christ as your own personal Saviour, Jesus will baptize you instantly with his Holy Spirit. Only then will you be able to understand some things in the Bible. The way of salvation is plain, but other things are written so that we need the indwelling Holy Spirit of God to help us understand them.

This is on purpose, for only the wise will understand. Isa. 28: 9-13 says, "Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts (i.e., when the church is old). For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people (he caused Peter and others to speak in other languages on Pentecost, Acts 2). To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear.But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken."

> > "Christ" got human flesh, but not from "Adam descendant" and his sin!

You're right. That is why Jesus was the seed of the woman, not of a man. He did not inherit Adam's sin nature. If he had, he would have been lost like the rest of us. Instead, he gave his sinless life as a pure sacrifice to save us from the result of our sins. Jesus is called the second Adam, because like Adam, his body was created by God. Man lost his chance to live forever when Adam sinned. Man regained his chance to live forever when Jesus was crucified to take the penalty of sin in our stead. For this salvation to apply to each one of us, we have to accept Jesus Christ as our Saviour. We have to believe in him.

> > [Luke - Chapter 21]
41: And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son? 42: And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 43: Till I make thine enemies thy footstool. 44: David therefore calleth him Lord, how is he then his son?

Jesus has two natures, as God, he is LORD (YHWH) King of Israel. As man, he is descended from king David. Therefore, he is both the Son of God and the son of David.

In Revelation 22:13,16, Jesus explained, "I am Alpha AND Omega, the beginning AND the end, the first AND the last....I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root (YHWH) AND the offspring of David".

Isa. 44:6 explains, "Thus saith the LORD (YHWH) the King of Israel, AND his redeemer the LORD (YHWH) of hosts; I am the first (YHWH King of Israel), AND I am the last (YHWH of hosts, the Redeemer, i.e., Jesus Christ); and beside me there is no God."

> > [sura 4 : 157]
And for claiming that they killed the Messiah Jesus son of Mary the messenger of God. In fact they never killed him they never crucified him-they were made to think that they did. All factions who are disputing in this matter are full of doubt concerning this issue. They possess no knowledge; they only conjecture. For certain they never killed him.

Those are lying words. Even the Jews that did not accept Jesus as their Saviour knew that he died. They wrote: "On the eve of Pesah they hung Jeshu [the Nazarene]. And the crier went forth before him forty days (saying), '[Jeshu the Nazarene] goeth forth to be stoned, because he hath practiced magic and deceived and led astray Israel. Any one who knoweth aught in his favour, let him come and declare concerning him. And they found naught in his favour, And THEY HUNG HIM ON THE EVE OF PESAH" (The Talmud, Tractate Sanhedrin, Folio 43a).

John 19:34 says that "one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water." They pierced the heart. He was dead even before that, but if not, that certainly would have killed him. He could not take our punishment for sin unless he died, for our soul has to die for our sins unless we accept Jesus as our Saviour.
Ezekiel 18:20 says, "The soul that sinneth, it shall die."

> > * Based on Qura'n:
Although he died and resurrected, but if he did not crucified then what is the "blood" refers to (in the scripture, specially in prophecy) ? What did happen ?

To be our Saviour, Jesus had to shed his blood. Hebrews 9:22 says, "almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and WITHOUT SHEDDING OF BLOOD THERE IS NO REMISSION" (i.e., of sins).

> > [sura 5 : 110]
> > God will say O Jesus son of Mary remember My blessings upon you and your mother. I supported you with the Holy Spirit to enable you to speak to the people from the crib as well as an adult.

That isn't true. Like any prophet, Jesus began to his ministry when about 30 years old. He was baptized by John the Baptist, then started to teach. Matthew 3:16 says, "Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him." He then began his main ministry.

> > [John 7:33-34]
> > I am with you for only a short time, and then I go to the one who sent me. You will look for me, but you will not find me, and where I am, you cannot come.

Jesus was with the disciples 40 days after the Resurrection. Then he ascended to Heaven. Acts 1:10-11 says, "ye shall receive power (at Pentecost, 50th day), after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." Love in Christ, Marilyn

My outgoing email, Re: The Gospel in the Stones, by John Tng

http://www.fivedoves.com/tng/gospelinstone.htm

Hi John: Thank you for your article "Gospel in the Stones." The stones cause a ripple effect as if they were tossed in water.

> > While the bottom 7 stones cry out JESUS CHRIST in Greek (Luke 19:40), the top 3 stones proclaim JESUS CHRIST in Hebrew! Amazing! There appears to be a coherent message in the High Priest's breastplate. One thing is certain. The 12 stones conceal a message concerning JESUS CHRIST.

Amen. on top of that, Rev. 4:3 is another reference to the breastplate. It says, "he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone" (the first and last stones in the breastplate). That means the first and the last (Ex. 39:10-13), i.e., Jesus (Rev. 1:17; 22:13), who is both God and man, both YHWH king of Israel and YHWH of hosts, the Redeemer (Isa. 44:6), both the one that sat on the throne in Rev. 4:2 and the Lamb of Rev. 5:6.

Ex. 28:17-20 says of the breastplate, "thou shalt set in it settings of stones, even four rows of stones: the first row shall be a SARDIUS, a topaz, and a carbuncle: this shall be the first row. And the second row shall be an emerald, a sapphire, and a diamond. And the third row a ligure, an agate, and an amethyst. And the fourth row a beryl, and an onyx, and a JASPER: they shall be set in gold in their inclosings." And the stones shall be with the names of the children of Israel, twelve, according to their names, like the engravings of a signet; every one with his name shall they be according to the twelve tribes.

Continuing, Rev. 4:3 says, "and there was a rainbow round about the throne (like the rings around Saturn), in sight like unto an EMERALD." Emerald was Judah's stone, and Jesus is of the tribe of Judah, who was the 4th son of Jacob and Leah.

I think the throne of Jesus is on Saturn, the 7th lamp of the lampstand according to Josephus. In Antiquities of the Jews, Book III, 7, he said of the lampstand, "the shaft elevated itself on high from a single base, and spread itself into as many branches as there are planets, including the sun among them." The lamps, with semi-circle branches representing their circular orbits, stood for the Sun, Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. No wonder the western lamp was to always be kept burning. It represented the Sun.

Isa 66:1 says, "Thus saith the LORD, The heaven (Saturn, not the Sun) is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? (the earthly Jerusalem) and where is the place of my rest?" (the heavenly New Jerusalem). The gist of Isa. 66:1 is also stated in Acts 7:49.

We can see that the rainbow of Rev. 4:3 represents the same as "the brightness round about" in Eze. 1:27,28. It says, "I saw as the colour of amber (Saturn has amber on it), as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward (i.e., from the equator upward), and from the appearance of his loins even downward (i.e., from the equator downward), I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it (i.e., the amber Saturn) had brightness (its rings) round about. As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain (a circle seen from the air, or a semi-circle seen from the ground), so was the appearance of the brightness round about (i.e., the seven rings around Saturn). This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD (i.e., the rings look like a halo). And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake."

Both the colors of the rainbow and of the rings of Saturn are formed by sunlight on ice crystals.

Psa. 8:1 and II Cor. 12:2 tie in. Psa. 8:1 says, "O LORD our Lord, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory (i.e., the rings) above the heavens" (plural, above at least two heavens, i.e., in the third heaven).

Of "the third heaven," II Cor. 12:2-4 says, "I knew a man (Paul himself) in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one CAUGHT UP TO THE THIRD HEAVEN. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) How that he was caught up into PARADISE (i.e., the third heaven), and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter." Starting from Earth as depicted in the center of the lampstand, the first heaven would be Mars, the second Jupiter, and the third Saturn. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Khouse just wrote an article that may further back up your 38 year theory.. AND IM EXCITED !!!!

http://www.khouse.org/articles/2005/580/

Just sending you this link, as its another way to confirm the 38 years, don't know if you've looked at the Olivet discourse this way before but if you haven't it has cleared up many conflicts I've had with the 3 passages.. AND IM EXCITED!!!!! This could well be the year..

By the way I've been a reader of your site for a while now and love reading about your ideas on timing... one of the few sites that even condone the practice, but I find just searching for a possible date is well worth the effort when you find little treasures like this one.

My reply

Thanks for sending the article "Resolving the Olivet Discourse," by Chuck Missler. It's interesting, but I don't think his 38 years is figured accurately.

Missler said, "Luke's rendering deals with the fall of Jerusalem that occurred 38 years later in 70 a.d. Matthew all but ignores it. Luke notes that "this generation shall not pass away until all be fulfilled."6 It is interesting that Jerusalem fell 38 years later, the very same duration that it took for that earlier generation to expire during the wanderings in the wilderness."."

We know that Jerusalem fell in 70 AD. Subtracting his 38 years brings us to 32 AD for the Crucifixion. I don't think that is the right year.

Herod began to build the temple in BC 19/20. Thus the 1st Passover of Jesus' ministry was in 27 AD, 46 years later. This places the Crucifixion in 30 AD instead of 32 AD.

The Israelites were in the wilderness 40 years. The 38 years was from the time that the spies returned to Moses to the Israelite"s entry into the Promised Land.

Nevertheless, the 38 years of John 5:5 could be a clue we don't want to pass up in case 2005 would be the year of the Rapture, 38 years after the Sign of the End of the Age, the Six-Day War of 1967. Maybe the Rapture will be on Hanukkah (see top article on my Home Page). Agape

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