Pro and Con 1260

Posted 12-1-05

Door shaped clouds

Could the strange cloud formations you saw be like any on this site?
Blessings to you

My reply

No, but those are some strange cloud formations. No doubt about that. I wonder what kind of giant cookie cutter could cut out what seemed to be a perfect oval in the clouds.

What I saw as I started driving down the hill was an upright rectangle cut cleanly out of a black cloud that was low in the sky west of me, not overhead. The doorway was facing me, but a little higher in the sky than straight out in front of me. There was a white threshold cut off cleanly on each side. I assume that it was a white cloud behind the black cloud. I could see blue sky and small white clouds in the distance as I looked through the doorway. Above the black cloud was blue sky and white clouds. I assumed that the white threshold was a white cloud behind the black one. The perspective was the same as any doorway you would see head on if you were climbing a rise, but it looked like it was made for giants. Agape

Tiny Crystals Show Early Earth Had A Crust

Tiny zircon crystals dug up from ancient Australian deposits appear to have been formed right after the birth of the planet -- a finding that suggests that early on, Earth had a cool crust much like today's that could have harbored life, scientists said on Thursday. 11-18-05

Rare seal bearing Jesus image found in Tiberias

By Eli Ashkenazi

A rare seal bearing a picture of Jesus on one side was discovered at an archeological dig in the old city of Tiberias on Thursday.

The other side of the seal, which dates from the sixth century, depicts a cross and bears the inscription "Christos."

Another view of the church floor in Megiddo

New archaeological finds stir Baptist scholars interest
By Brent Thompson, 11-17-05

A prisoner at a facility at Megiddo, near Jerusalem, cleans the remains of a mosaic floor of what might be the worlds oldest Christian church.

My outgoing email (incoming omitted), Re: Two Raptures

I believe there will be two Raptures, the Pre-Trib Rapture (the first "trump of God", I Thess. 4:16) as the Tribulation begins, and the Pre-Wrath Rapture (the "last trump" of God, I Cor. 15:51,52) on the Feast of Trumpets that is also the Day of the Lord and the Day of God's Wrath that ends the shortened Great Tribulation.

Num 10:1-4 is the type of the first and last trumps of God at the journeying of the camps at the time of the two Raptures.

It says, "the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Make thee TWO TRUMPETS of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest USE THEM (plural, i.e., use them both) FOR THE CALLING OF THE ASSEMBLY (the General Assembly in Heaven, Heb. 12:23), AND FOR THE JOURNEYING OF THE CAMPS (plural, i.e., Bride saints and Tribulation saints). And when they shall blow with THEM (plural, i.e., both trumpets), ALL the assembly (i.e., both the Bride saints and the Tribulation saints) shall assemble themselves to thee at the DOOR of the tabernacle of the congregation (i.e., in Heaven). And if they blow but with ONE TRUMPET, then the princes (i.e., the elders of Rev. 4:4, the 12 patriarchs and 12 apostles), which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall GATHER THEMSELVES UNTO THEE" (as in Rev. 4:1-4).

I think the Bride saints can be numbered. That includes the wise-virgins caught up in the first Rapture plus the 144,000 caught up in the second Rapture. The 144,000 are virgins without fault before the throne of God (Rev. 14:4,5). The rest of the great multitude of Tribulation saints "no man could number" (Rev. 7:9).

Dan 7:10 says, "A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands (i.e., the indefinite number of Tribulation saints) ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand (a definite number of Bride saints) stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened." This is the first day of Christ's kingdom. It is the day of Christ's Coronation, the Marriage of the Lamb, and the Judgment Seat of Christ. The Tribulation saints have just arrived. Dan 7:13,14 says, "I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man (Jesus) came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days (God the Father), and they brought him (Jesus) near before him (God the Father). And there was given him (Jesus) dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed."

Christ's kingdom is everlasting, shall not pass away, and shall not be destroyed. That should mean eternal to anyone.

Rev. 19:6-8 also describes the heavenly scene at this time. It says, "the Lord God omnipotent reigneth. Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the MARRIAGE OF THE LAMB is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white; for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints."

The Bride is the group that can be numbered, not the others that can't be numbered that are "ministering unto him" in Dan. 7:10.

We don't have to agree with each other. I don't think you could find two people that would agree on everything in the Bible. It is too complex for that.

Jesus is the author of "The Revelation of Jesus Christ." He is the one that put his own tribe of Judah first in the listing of the 144,000 Israelites in Rev. 7. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Jewish calender, ascension date

A comment and question. I have heard several pastors make the point that Jesus ascended eight days before pentecost. Their reasoning is that He died on passover which is 50 days before pentecost. Jesus rose the thrid day after passover and was on the earth 40 days before ascending, which works out to ascension being 8 days before pentecost (using inclusive reckoning). The 8th day represents the start of a new order.

My question concerns the Jewish calendar, which gives the current year as 5765. I have seen quite a few chronologies based on the Old Testament, but never one which gives creation as early as 5765 years ago. About the only thing I've found about this date is that it is based on a Jewish calculation of the year of creation. Do you know of any web site or book where the chronology that was used to come up with that date for creation is laid out? Thanks

My reply

Both Ascension Day (40 days) and Pentecost (50 days) are counted from the Resurrection. Jesus ascended 10 days before Pentecost.

Below is some very interesting information, including why the Hebrew Calender of today started in 3760 BCE. The Jews now confuse the issue by saying that 3760 BCE is the date of creation, but it isn't. I think the day God rested after creating Adam was September 18, 4044 BC. That was Tishri 1, 283 BJE (before Jewish Era).

...The Copper Scroll from the Qumran Community offers this proof, for researchers studying the Copper Scroll HAVE ALREADY LOCATED THE QETOTET (MIKDASH INCENSE) FOUND IN 1992 dig:

An estimated 600 lbs. of what looked like "reddish earth" was uncovered at the North entrance of the Cave of the Column by excavation volunteers in the late Spring of 1992. Team members reported detecting the smell of cinnamon present in the substance. Preliminary analysis by Dr. Marvin Antelman of the Wiezmann Institute revealed that the find was indeed, organic. "Density indicates that the material which is lighter than water is excluded from the category of red soil or red minerals......also the high percentage of ash is typical of plant source." Dr. Antelman later told the Jerusalem Post in a story dated May 1, 1992, "I'm very excited about this find. He added that he had positively identified borit karshina (karsina lye) which is one of the ingredients spelled out in the Talmud."

Recently, Dr. Terry Hutter performed a more exhaustive analysis and stated that, "the red-brown spice sample is composed of nine different and unique plants. The plants are recognizable both by pollen and organic maceral types." Dr. Hutter listed these as: Three kinds of Cinnamon, Saffron, Balsam, Myrrh, Galbanum, Cassia, and Frankincense.

THE QUANTITY OF THE INCENSE IS ALSO SIGNIFICANT. IT CORRESPONDS TO THE AMOUNT PREPARED FOR ONE YEAR OF DAILY TEMPLE SERVICE. The Torah only lists four ingredients for the Qetoret. The Mishna lists eleven, in addition to Sodom salt and Karcina lye. The latter text also tells of the Avtinas family and how they were charged with the secret of compounding these precious spices. The fragrance of the Qetoret was said to be so powerful that that when it was being prepared, one could smell it as far away as Jericho, 12 miles to the north of Qumran.

Curiously, when young Muhammed edh-Dhib, discovered the Dead Sea Scrolls in 1947, only two of the ten clay jars contained anything. One of the pots held the Scrolls and the other was filled with "reddish earth"; Shemen Afarshimon.

The Shemen Afarismon, THE HOLY ANOINTING OIL, FROM THE HOLY TEMPLE, WAS FOUND IN APRIL, 1988 by the VJRI excavation team. After intensive testing by the Pharmaceutical Department of Hebrew University, financed by the VJRI, the substance inside the SMALL JUGLET was verified to indeed be the Shemen Afarshimon of Psalm 133.

The oil was used as the fragrance on the oblation for a sweet smelling savor on the sacrifices. It was also used as the Holy Anointing Oil for the priest, prophets and kings.

The finding of the oil was important for two reasons. It is the first item to be found from the Second Temple period and is one of the items listed among the treasures in the Copper Scroll.

On February 15, 1989, the news of the find was broken to the public....

Abraham, the first Hebrew Patriarch, migrated to Canaan from Ur - a metropolis which in his time was the royal capital of the Sumerian empire. In his days, Nippur, the religious-scientific center, had been established for many years; and was one of the main centers of moon worship. Zecharia Sitchin (linguist and biblical scholar) suggests that by calling himself Ibri ("Hebrew") Abraham simply identified himself as one born in Nippur, whose Sumerian name was Ni-Ibru -- "The Watered Place of Crossing". It was there, scholars have found, that one of Mankind's first calendars, THE NIPPUR CALENDAR, WAS DEVISED AND INTRODUCED 3760 BCE. It became standard during the golden age of ancient Babylon under Hammurabi (New Catholic Encyclopedia; Vol. 2, p. 1068).

Rabbinic years had no sequential number until the Eighth Century, CE. But the Jewish year corresponding to 1987 bore the number 5747. 5747 years since what? The traditional answer is: "Since the world was created." But we know that Earth and the solar system came into being billions of years ago. Actually, Rabbi Hillel worked through the calendar backward, from year one of the Common Era. Working out the complex calculations without the benefit of computers, HE CONCLUDED THE FIRST OF "TISHRI" OF THE "FIRST YEAR" OCCURRED 4,119 YEARS EARLIER - IN THE YEAR 3760 BCE. IT WAS SUPPOSEDLY THE NUMBER OF YEARS THAT HAD PASSED SINCE THE COUNT OF YEARS HAD BEGUN IN ANCIENT BABYLON....

The Mishna states in Rosh Hashanah Chapter 1, Mishna 1: There are four new years. On the first of Nisan is the New Year for Kings and for Festivals; on the first of Elul is the New Year for the tithe of animals - R. Eliezer and R. Simon say, on the first of Tishri - on the first of Tishri is the New Year for the years, for Sabbatical Years, for Jubilee Years, for planting and for vegetables; and on the first of Shevat is the New Year for Trees, according to the view of the School of Shammai, but the School of Hillel say, on the fifteenth thereof....

Incoming e-mail, Re: Messiah

It's very interesting to note that islam is also waiting upon Jesus. I found some interesting notes about Jesus on one of their websites.

1) His name will actually contain allah's/god's name. ********Consider that Jesus's (In Hebrew Jesus/Yesuaha
actually already has Yahweh's name included in His own) name *******Jehovah in hebrew********* So, our Lord and our Father already have this name together with the Holy Spirit.

muslims believe that Jesus will be called--------His name will be Muhammad ibn ‘Abd-Allaah, which contains their prophets name. Notice that their messiah will only have this name in the future. This alone betray's islam as apostate, because if allah was indeed god, he would have worked this out before time began.

2) When he will appear: At the end of time, shortly before the Hour begins. After him the Messiah ‘Eesa ibn Maryam
(Jesus the son of Mary) will descend.--- Christian's believe that we live in a world without end--- We also know of an ultimate judgement, the great white throne for those that don't call Jesus their Messiah, the only Son of God. That will be a sad day indeed.

3) He will fill the earth with fairness and justice as it was filled with unfairness and injustice, and he will reign for seven years.” ************* When I saw this, I couldn't believe it. The truth is that "we will have Tribulation seven years" after a brief false period where there is the appearence of peace and justice.

I'm sorry if I seem to be focused upon this chain of thought, but it seems that perhaps the manipulation of islam might be where the perseqution of saints during the tribulation period comes from. One thing we can't ignor is the similarities that islam has with the truth inherient in the Bible. Notice how the terrorists in the Middle East behead their captives just like we know the AC will do in the trib. They are looking for a holy man as messiah just like we are told to be warry of during the tribulation. AgapE

My reply

Yes, their guiding entity is very tricky. He knows how to throw up a mind block. He doesn't care if they come close as long as they don't get it exactly right. The following is from one of their web sites.
"Is Christ "God" !? But, "God" is greater"

[John - Chapter 14]
28: Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.

[John - Chapter 13]
16: Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him.
Obviously, they aren't told what else these chapters say.

For instance, John 14:6-11 is revealing. Jesus said, "I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE: NO MAN COMETH UNTO THE FATHER, BUT BY ME. IF YE HAD KNOWN ME, YE SHOULD HAVE KNOWN MY FATHER ALSO: AND FROM HENCEFORTH YE KNOW HIM, AND HAVE SEEN HIM. Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, HAVE I BEEN SO LONG TIME WITH YOU, AND YET HAST THOU NOT KNOWN ME, Philip? HE THAT HATH SEEN ME HATH SEEN THE FATHER; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I AM IN THE FATHER, AND THE FATHER IN ME? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but THE FATHER THAT DWELLETH IN ME, HE DOETH THE WORKS. Believe me that I AM IN THE FATHER, AND THE FATHER IN ME".

John 13:20 says, "Verily, verily (Amen, amen, i.e., this is very important), I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and HE THAT RECEIVETH ME RECEIVETH HIM THAT SENT ME." Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: shmitta and yovel years (sabbatical and jubilee years)

I believe the best source for the Yovel year calculation is one in the Talmud which says that the destruction of the Second Temple in late July of AD 70 took place in a Yovel year. But I would have to do research to find the exact citation for that.

However, if that is the case, then AD 1980-81 and AD 2029-30 are yovel years, as are any that are exact multiples of 49 yrs before or after AD 69/70.

I believe that another citation expresses that a great reinstitution of the Shmitta/Yovel custom was undertaken by Nehemiah in Jerusalem, with the Yovel at 422/21 BC, as I recall.

A work by Ben-Zion Wachholder some 20 years ago on this subject was, in my opinion, disinformation and not correct. Instead, a correct study of this was issued by a German rabbi over a century ago, but I doubt it was ever translated into English.

If I get a chance to look up the citations I will send them later. Best

My reply

Thanks so much for this information. It has been very helpful.

I don't need for you to spend lots of time looking up things. I believe what you say. From what I have been able to turn up by searching on Google, I think your (5741) 1980/1981 and (5790) 2029/2030 Jubilee Years are correct. I'll post below some excerpts from what I found, and a few of my comments.

Do you think the Jubilee Years have anything special to tell us today? I understand why the first one was kept ten years after they entered into the Promised Land. It was at the time that the soldiers that had been away from their families were able to disband and go home. With the Lord's help, they had secured the land of Israel. It was great not to have to sow and reap that year. They could take a well-deserved rest. The Lord saw to it that they were well fed.

Lev. 25:8-10 says, "thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years. Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land. And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land unto all the inhabitants thereof: it shall be a jubile unto you; and ye shall return every man unto his possession, and ye shall return every man unto his family."

In the 49th year, the Jubilee was announced on the Day of Atonement, before any planting had been done. The Jubilee year was the following year. Did it start on the following Nisan 1? I appreciate your help.
Jubilee Year

...When is the next Yovel? Maimonides, based on historical calculations, writes: "According to this calculation, this year - which is the 1107th year from the destruction of the Temple...and the year 4936 from Creation - is the the 21st year in the Yovel cycle." Since today is 5758 from Creation, the next yovel would be seven years from now. But the Rambam himself writes that his calculations are not conclusive....
I can't accept that conclusion. The year 5758 (1997/1998) does not divide evenly by 7. Therefore, to me, it is not a Sabbatic Year. The years 5761 (2000/2001), 5768 (2007/2008), 5775 (2014/2015), 5782 (2021/2022), and 5789 (2028/2029) divide evenly by 7. Therefore, they are Sabbatic Years. It sure seems possible for 5790 (2029/2030) to be a Jubilee Year, as you said.

The Crucifixion was in 3790 (29/30 AD). I don't think that year was Sabbatic or the Jubilee, as some guess. The years 3756 and 3757, Jesus' conception and birth, are not Sabbatic years, either.
That year 3790 was not Sabbatic or the Jubilee, as some suggest. The years 3787 (26/27 AD) and 3794 (33/34 AD) were Sabbatic.
Chronology of Jubilees

Each 50th year may have been specially celebrated in ancient Israel (The last jubilee year may have been officially celebrated as late as the year 121 BCE)

The year 37-36 BCE appears to have been both a 7th year and 70th year (as noted by Josephus). This year...happened to be a Sabbatic year [or literally, a 'hebdomatikon' year]" ('Antiquities of the Jews', 14:16:2).

The year 37-36 BCE is noted to have been both a 7th year and a 70th year in a second passage of 'Antiquities of the Jews'....(Book 15:1:2).

The year 55-56 CE (autumn-to-autumn) was almost surely a 7th year--based on an ancient Deed of Loan. This paper was recovered at Wadi Murabba near Bethlehem. This legal note is explicit in stating that a 'year-of-release' was underway in the 2nd year of Nero Caesar....

Rabbi Jose (Yose) ben Khalapha commented that the year prior to the destruction of the Second Temple was a Sabbatical year (Seder Olam, 30). Because the Second Temple was destroyed in autumn of the year 70 CE then it's easy to recognize from the rabbis that a Sabbatical year occurred immediately prior to the destruction of the Temple....

the First Temple may have been destroyed in a Sabbatical year.

"It is said, The day on which the First Temple was destroyed was... at the end of the seventh [Sabbatical] year..." (Arakin 11b).
"The First Temple was destroyed... in the year following the Sabbathical year..." (Ta'anith 29a).
Because Sabbatical years appear to have been reckoned to commence in association with autumn of the year, and because civil years were reckoned to commence in association with spring of the year, the cited Sabbatical year most probably corresponded with 587-586 BCE (reckoned autumn-to-autumn)....

The following instances of 7th years in the once observed jubilee cycle can explicitly and implicitly be identified from various ancient sources: 1. 701-700 BCE; 2. 587-586 BCE; 3. 537-536 BCE; 4. 458-457 BCE; 5. 444-443 BCE; 6. 437-436 BCE; and 7. 330-329 BCE.

If these several instances of 7th years were all projected and condensed as occurring in or after the middle of the pivotal second century BCE then the following years would pertain to Sabbatical years: 187-186 BCE, 158-157 BCE, 144-143 BCE, 137-136 BCE, 130-129 BCE, and 101-100 BCE.

In addition to the cited string of Sabbaticals, the epoch of a jubilee year (the 50th year) can be recited to have ultimately occurred in the year 572-571 BCE, again in the year 522-521, and perhaps yet again in 29-30 CE....

My Note: However, 3787 (26/27 AD) is Sabbatic, not 3790 (29/30 AD).

If a jubilee year was celebrated in this modern era--as a projection of jubilees celebrated in the Temple Era--it is probable that the next jubilee year would correspond to the year 2029-2030 (reckoned from the autumn)....
Bible Prophecy Numbers, the Writing on the Wall

The 50th year does not break the regular ongoing cycles; hence, the 50th year is simply the first year of the next jubilee cycle....
I agree. While I was reading lots of books from BIOLA library's Seminary Collection, I figured out that the Jubilee cycle is a 49-year cycle. Shalom and agape

Bible Prophecy Numbers, the Writing on the Wall

The 50th year does not break the regular ongoing cycles; hence, the 50th year is simply the first year of the next jubilee cycle....
I agree. While I was reading lots of books from BIOLA library's Seminary Collection, I figured out that the Jubilee cycle is a 49-year cycle. Agape

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