Pro and Con 1261

Posted 12-5-05

Unusual things could be signs

APOD, Light Echoes from V838 Mon
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/astropix.html

Credit: NASA and the Hubble Heritage Team (AURA/STScI)

...star V838 Mon's outer surface suddenly greatly expanded with the result that it became the brightest star in the entire Milky Way Galaxy in January 2002. Then, just as suddenly, it faded. A stellar flash like this has never been seen before...

Past Tense Prophecy?

PRINCE OF PEACE
Wonderful, Counsellor, the Mighty God, the Everlasting Father, the Prince of Peace.
Isa. 9:6
By B.R. Burton
http://messianicart.com/chazak/yeshua/isaiah9.htm

Past Tense Prophecy? James Trimm, of SANJ, writes,

"Is. 9:6, 7 ... anti-missionaries LOVE to claim this must be past tense....

In reality there is no such thing as tense in Hebrew grammar. Hebrew verbs do not take past, present and future forms, but perfect (completed action) or imperfect (incomplete action). Normally a verb in the perfect form would imply a past tense which is why Singer insists this must be past tense and that it therefore refers to Hezekiah.

In reality there is a special idiom in Hebrew called the "Prophetic Perfect" this is where a prophet speaks of future events in the perfect form because he has seen them in the future where they have already happened. Another example of the prophetic perfect in Is. 5:13:

Therefore my people ARE GONE into captivity... Now this verb is in the perfect form but it is clearly a future event because the captivity spoken of did not occur in Isaiah's lifetime. In fact the Targum Jonathan to Isaiah 9:6-7 clearly identifies this figure as the Messiah.

And the PEREK HA SHALOM; NUMBERS RABBAH XI, 16-20) has: Rabbi Jose the Galilean says: The name of the Messiah too is "peace"; as it is written: "God the mighty, the everlasting Father, the ruler of peace" (Quoting Is. 9:5-6 (6-7)) So even the ancient sages understood Isaiah 9:5-6 (6-7 in some editions) to refer to a FUTURE MESSIAH....

R. Hillel said: There shall be no Messiah for Israel, because they have already enjoyed him in the days of Hezekiah. R. Joseph said: May God forgive him [for saying so]. Now when did Hezekiah flourish? During the first Temple. Yet Zechariah, prophesying in the days of the second proclaims, Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem; behold, thy king comth unto thee! he is just, and having salvation; lowly and riding upon an ass, and upon the colt the foal of an ass. Sanhedrin 99a, Soncino Press Edition

Wonderful
The Angel of YHVH appeared to [Manoach's wife], and said to her, "Behold now, you are barren, and bear not: but you shall conceive, and bear a son. . . the child shall be a Nazarite unto God from the womb: and he shall begin to deliver Israel out of the hand of the Philistines. Then the woman came and told her husband saying, 'A man of God came to me, and his countenance was like the countenance of an angel of God, very awesome . . . he did not tell me his name. . . And Manoach said to the Angel of YHVH, "What is your name, that when your sayings come to pass, we may honor you?" And the Angel of YHVH said unto him, "Why do you ask my name, seeing it is Wonderful?1" " . . . and Manoach said to his wife, "We shall surely die, because we have seen God." Judges 13:3,5-6 (partial), 17-18, 22

For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful2, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this. Isaiah 9:6-7...

Let this mind be in you, which was also in Messiah Yeshua: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also had highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Yeshua every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Yeshua the Messiah is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. Phillipians 2:6-11...

The Messiah is called by eight names: Yinnon, Tzemach, Pele ["Miracle"]. Yo'etz ["Counsellor"], Mashiah ["Messiah"], El ["God"], Gibbor ["Hero"], and Avi 'Ad Shalom ["Eternal Father of Peace"]
S. Buber's note, Mid. Mishle, p. 87, cited in The Messiah Texts, by Raphael Patai, p. 22...

Land of Israel Faithful Movement

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/nov2005/markr1123.htm ...Historians will soon record this event as an important and major event done by the Faithful Movement as a major stage on the way to the rebuilding of the Temple. During the upcoming Hanukkah event the cornerstones will again be carried and we shall do everything and pray that this time they will be laid on the Temple Mount and start the rebuilding of the Temple....

FACES ON THE WALL

The woman's face seems clearer in this picture.

My email to Jim Bramlett

> > He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth (Isaiah 40:22).

What version is this? It brings out the truth that his throne is farther out in space than the orbit of the Earth. Agape

His reply, Re: "enthroned" (Isaiah 40:22)

NIV. The KJV says, "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth"
The circle may not mean orbit, but the spherical shape, the way I take it.

My reply

I like the NIV translation best: "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth (Isaiah 40:22)."

In the past, I have taken it as the sphere too, but now I think it means the orbit. In the KJV, the word translated "upon" is "al," above, over. That fits Heaven, Saturn. It is farther out in space than the orbit of Earth.

The word translated "circle" is "chug," circle, circuit, compass. It sounds more like the orbit, because it is a circuit. The Lord does sit enthroned farther out in space than the orbit of the Earth. He is in the "third heaven" Paul was taken to (II Cor. 12:2). The three heavens are (1) Mars, (2) Jupiter, and (3) Saturn.

According to Josephus, the lampstand represented (1) Sun, (2) Mercury, (3) Venus, (4) Earth, (5) Mars, (6) Jupiter and (7) Saturn (Ant. III. VI. 7). Saturn has 7 rings too. It is also the 7th gemstone mentioned in Eze. 28:13. Satan has walked in the midst of the planets. His planet Rahab split apart and became our Asteroid Belt. Each planet is represented by a gemstone.

In the LXX, Zech 3:9,10 says, "I bring forth my servant The Branch. For as for the stone which I have set before the face of Jesus, on the one stone are seven eyes" (orbs, i.e., circles, rings).

Eze. 1:26-28 says, "And above the firmament (expanse of space) that was over their heads (i.e., farther out in space than the four terrestrial planets) was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone (sapphire means dear to the planet Saturn, from the Sanskrit Sani, Saturn, and priya, dear): and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man (Jesus) above upon it. And I saw as the colour of amber (Saturn has amber on it), as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins (from the equator) even upward, and from the appearance of his loins (from the equator) even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about (i.e., the ring system). As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain (having 7 colors from sunshine shining on ice crystals), so was the appearance of the brightness round about (Saturn's 7 rings, also made of ice crystals). This was the appearance of the likeness (symbolic language) of the glory of the LORD." Agape

Re: sapphire

The Bible isn't the only source that shows us that Saturn's "gem is blue sapphire." How did I miss this for so long?
---
The Symbolism of Birthstones
http://www.mckennaflutes.com/crowns_birth.htm

September, sapphire, clear thinking
---
Sapphire, by Bambra Johnson
http://www.emporia.edu/earthsci/amber/go340/students/johnson/gemology.htm

Dark blue sapphire is a symbol of loyalty
---
http://gemstones.goldenmine.com/
Read about it's role as a crown jewel and it's symbolism for love.
---
Gemstone Symbolism...Mystery and Meaning
http://www.vividjewelry.com/gemstone-symbolism.htm

The Sapphire is the celestial stone.
---
About the Symbolism of Precious Gem Stones
http://www.jjkent.com/articles/stones-christian-symbolism.htm

The blue-coloured Sapphire is an emblem of heaven, virtue, truth, constancy, heavenly love, and contemplation.

"The azure light of Sapphire's stone Resembles that celestial throne
---
Symbolic virtues of gems
http://www.ceu.hu/medstud/manual/SRM/symbol.htm

The value of the materials lay in their symbolic character as well. The beauty and purity of the precious materials symbolised heavenly perfection: the New Jerusalem described in Revelation 21:
I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God.... It shone with the glory of God and its brilliance was like that of a very precious jewel, like a jasper, clear as crystal.... The wall was made of jasper, and the city of pure gold, as pure as glass. The foundations of the city walls were decorated with every kind of precious stone. The first foundation was jasper, the second sapphire, the third chalcedony, the fourth emerald, the fifth sardonyx, the sixth carnelian, the seventh chrysolite, the eighth beryl, the ninth topaz, the tenth chrysoprase, the eleventh jacinth, and the twelfth amethyst. The twelve gates were twelve pearls, each gate made of a single pearl. The street of the city was of pure gold, like transparent glass.
---
http://www.astrojyoti.com/lesson1.htm

...SATURN...Its metal is iron, color is blue, GEM IS BLUE SAPPHIRE
---
Sapphire, Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sapphire

Sapphire is also the birthstone associated with September.
---
Stones
http://www.wheaton.edu/english/resources/medieval/stones.htm

In addition to his great work, De lapidibus, Marbode also wrote three smaller lapidaries, one in verse and two in prose. The verse lapidary is a 99 line poem of thanksgiving for THE TWELVE STONES WHICH CONSTITUTE THE FOUNDATION FOR THE NEW JERUSALEM. The stones are given symbolic significance. The Christian prose lapidary discusses the same stones but adds new material, and the medical lapidary focuses on the healing qualities of the stones....

From the apostolic lapidary of Andreas, Bishop of Caesura, we discover that the sapphire is compared to the color of the heavens: "I conceive it to mean St. Paul, since he was caught up to the third heaven, where his souls was firmly fixed." And from a description of the twelve apocalyptic gems by Hrabanus Maurus (9th century), we learn that the sapphire represents celestial hope....
---
About the Symbolism of Precious Gem Stones
http://www.jjkent.com/articles/stones-christian-symbolism.htm

Precious stones have a symbolism that extends beyond secular literature and into the realm of Christian hymns and liturgy....

The blue-coloured Sapphire is an emblem of heaven, virtue, truth, constancy, heavenly love, and contemplation.

"The azure light of Sapphire's stone Resembles that celestial throne...

In the curious and rare book of Sylvanus Morgan, "The Sphere of Gentry" (1661), the Diamond is represented as the emblem of fortitude, and its motto, "In aeternum." The Sapphire denotes prudence...

The ruby and sapphires were, in fact, the same stones, and in combination produced the purpura, or purple, which formed the covering of the tabernacle....
---
September Birthstone - Sapphire
http://www.bernardine.com/birthstone/sapphire.htm

...Sapphire is a variety of the mineral species corundum. Sapphires occur in all colors of the rainbow with the exception of red, which is ruby. The name corundum comes from the ancient Sanskrit "kuruvindam", while THE NAME "SAPPHIRE" COMES FROM THE PERSIAN WORD "SAFIR", MEANING "BELOVED OF SATURN", (or Greek sapphiros)...
---
http://www.geocities.com/TelevisionCity/Set/4341/saph5.htm

...In terms of symbolism, sapphires are known as "the symbol of the heavens...
---
Sapphire
http://www.ajsgems.com/Sapphire.htm

...symbolism associated with sapphire have been numerous. Sometimes called the "Gem of Heaven", it's reflection was long ago credited for the blue of the sky. Sapphire has long symbolized truth, sincerity, and faithfulness....

Re: Sir Robert Anderson

REVELATION UNVEILED
MJ Martin (18 Nov 2005)
"Revelation Unveiled/ Tim La Haye"

http://www.angelfire.com/sc3/redentormio/Revelation_Unveiledp16.html
---
by Tim La Haye
Co-Author of the best-selling "Left Behind" series

Chapter 13 - The Seal Judgments (Rev. 6)
The Tribulation Period
Daniel 9:24-27
http://www.angelfire.com/sc3/redentormio/Revelation_Unveiledp16.html

...Sir Robert Anderson's masterful book, the Coming Prince, shows that Christ's coming into Jerusalem the Sunday before His crucifixion occurred in exactly the right year. To my knowledge, his book has never been refuted....

Chapters 6, 8-9, and 16 Are the Keys
Chapter 6 introduces the seal judgments, which make up the first quarter of the Tribulation period. The seventh seal then introduces the seven trumpets, which indicates that we are carried into the second quarter of the Tribulation (described in chs. 8-9). The seventh trumpet, in turn, introduces the seven bowl judgments, which comprise the last half of the Tribulation period. Everything else between chapters 7-8 must be placed within the consecutive events of these three judgments....

One of the reasons we know Christ is coming before the Tribulation to rapture His Church is because the Rapture is a secret thing. The Glorious Appearing will not be secret but well known, for exactly seven years will elapse from the signing of the covenant to the Glorious Appearing of Christ on the earth....
---
We would love to hear any comments or questions that you have. Please email us at redentormio@yahoo.com

My reply, Re: Refuting Sir Robert Anderson

The Coming Prince, Sir Robert Anderson (1841-1918)
CHAPTER X, FULFILLMENT OF THE PROPHECY
---
> > Sir Robert Anderson's masterful book, the Coming Prince, shows that Christ's coming into Jerusalem the Sunday before His crucifixion occurred in exactly the right year. To my knowledge, his book has never been refuted.
I don't think Sir Robert Anderson got the Crucifixion year right.
He said, "The statement of St. Luke is explicit and unequivocal, that our Lord's public ministry began in the fifteenth year of Tiberius Caesar. It is equally clear that it began shortly before the Passover, The date of it can thus be fixed as between August A.D. 28 and April A.D. 29. The Passover of the crucifixion therefore was in A.D. 32, when Christ was betrayed on the night of the Paschal Supper, and put to death on the day of the Paschal Feast.
1. I THINK THE CRUCIFIXION WAS IN 30 AD

Tiberius Caesar began to reign over Palestine as Co-rex with Augustus in 12 AD. His 15th year was 26 AD. Tiberius was practically sole ruler over Palestine from 12 AD on. Augustus was busy elsewhere in his kingdom.

Below is a coin, minted in 10 AD, showing Tiberius as designated heir.

Below is a coin, minted in 12 and 13 AD, presenting Tiberius as the designated heir.

Below is a coin, minted in 13 and 14 AD, with both Tiberius and Augustus on it. Tiberius was Co-Rex from 12 AD to 14 AD.

2. THE TEMPLE HAD BEEN UNDER CONSTRUCTION 46 YEARS IN 27 AD, FIRST PASSOVER OF JESUS' MINISTRY

John 2:20,21 says, "Then said the Jews, FORTY AND SIX YEARS was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? But he spake of the temple of his body."

The Temple was begun in 20/19 BC. Forty-six years later was 27 AD, the first Passover of Jesus' ministry. He was killed three years later, on Thursday, Nisan 13, 30 AD, the Preparation of the fourth Passover - (1) 27 AD, (2) 28 AD, (3) 29 AD, and (4) 30 AD).

3. THE INIQUITY OF THE HOUSE OF JUDAH WAS 40 YEARS, FROM 30 TO 70 AD

According to Ezekiel 4:6, the iniquity of the house of Judah was to last 40 years. It says, "when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year. Forty years after the Crucifixion in 30 AD was 70 AD, when Jerusalem, including the temple, were burned. The year 32 AD does not fit from 20/19 BC, when the temple construction began. It does not fit 40 years before 70 AD, either.

4. JESUS WAS PUT TO DEATH ON THURSDAY, THE PREPARATION OF THE PASSOVER

John 19:13-16 says, "When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha. And IT WAS THE PREPARATION OF THE PASSOVER, and about the sixth hour (9 AM, Roman time): and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, CRUCIFY HIM. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar. Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified."

It was still preparation day when Jesus died about 3 PM. John 19:30,31 says, "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. The Jews therefore, BECAUSE IT WAS THE PREPARATION, THAT THE BODIES SHOULD NOT REMAIN UPON THE CROSS ON THE SABBATH DAY, (FOR THAT SABBATH DAY WAS AN HIGH DAY,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away." The Sabbath that was about to start was Passover, an annual Sabbath and High Day. No work was to be done on that day.

Before Nisan 13, the Day of Preparation ended, Jesus told the thief, "To day shalt thou be with me in paradise" (Luke 23:43). Both died on the Day of Preparation. Jesus was put in the stone tomb near the end of the day at 6 PM as the lambs were put in stone ovens to roast. They had to be eaten before midnight.

Jesus is "our passover." 1Cor 5:7 says, "Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even CHRIST OUR PASSOVER is sacrificed for us." Jesus died as the Passover lambs were being killed at the temple "between the two evenings" (Exodus 12:6, literal translation, Green's Interlinear) between 3 and 5 PM, "at the going down of the sun" (De. 16:6). The going down of the Sun portrayed Christ, the "Sun of righteousness" (Mal. 4:2), when he "descended first into the lower parts of the earth" (Eph. 4:9).

5. JESUS WAS IN THE GRAVE THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS

Mt 12:40 says, "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." Jesus was Crucified and put in the tomb on Thursday. The three days and three nights were Thursday (day), Friday (night then day), Saturday (night then day), and Sunday (night).

Lev 23:5-7 says, "In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover. And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD".

Saturday (Nisan 8) Jesus arrived at Bethany. He ate a meal that had been prepared before 6 PM Friday.
Sunday (Nisan 9) was Palm Sunday.
Monday (Nisan 10) Jesus cursed the fig tree.
Tuesday (Nisan 11) Jesus gave the Olivet Discourse.
Wednesday (Nisan 12) Jesus was anointed for his burial. After "two days was the passover" (Friday) (Mark 16:1).
Thursday (Nisan 13) was the Crucifixion on the Preparation of the Passover.
Friday (Nisan 14) was Passover.
Saturday (Nisan 15) was the Feast of Unleavened Bread.
Sunday (Nisan 16) was Firstfruits, Resurrection Day.

6. SUNDAY WAS THE THIRD DAY "SINCE" THE CRUCIFIXION

Luke 24:20,21 says, "And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day (Sunday) is the third day since these things were done." Since the Crucifixion was on Thursday, the three days since were Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

A FEW OTHER THINGS THAT SIR ROBERT ANDERSON SAID THAT I DISAGREE WITH

> > Chapters 6, 8-9, and 16 Are the Keys
> > Chapter 6 introduces the seal judgments, which make up the first quarter of the Tribulation period. The seventh seal then introduces the seven trumpets, which indicates that we are carried into the second quarter of the Tribulation (described in chs. 8-9). The seventh trumpet, in turn, introduces the seven bowl judgments, which comprise the last half of the Tribulation period. Everything else between chapters 7-8 must be placed within the consecutive events of these three judgments....

I think the 7 seals cover the whole of the shortened Tribulation. The seven trumpet judgments come out of the 7th seal on the Day of God's Wrath, and the 7 vials/bowls come out of the 7th trumpet. They show the total destruction after some more time has gone by. > > One of the reasons we know Christ is coming before the Tribulation to rapture His Church is because the Rapture is a secret thing. The Glorious Appearing will not be secret but well known, for exactly seven years will elapse from the signing of the covenant to the Glorious Appearing of Christ on the earth....

I believe that there will be a Pre-Trib Rapture, but I don't think that Rapture is secret. Psalm 40:1-3 says, "I waited patiently for the LORD (as in Rev. 3:10); and he inclined (bent down) unto me, and heard my cry. HE BROUGHT ME UP (i.e., in the Pre-Trib Rapture) also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay (as Jeremiah was pulled up out of a miry pit), and set my feet upon a rock (Heaven), and established my goings (i.e., at the Rapture). And he hath put a new song (sung by the Bride saints in Rev. 5:9) in my mouth, even praise unto our God: MANY SHALL SEE IT, AND FEAR, AND SHALL TRUST IN THE LORD." Agape

   Pro and Con 1262   Or Return   Home


Contact me for more information at: mjagee1@earthlink.net


Send me e-mail now


8641 Sugar Gum Rd, Riverside, CA 92508, USA; (951) 653-4110


© 1996-2005, Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 12-5-05