Pro and Con 1262

Posted 12-6-05

My reply to TEFE on the Five Doves site, Re: Rapture and the pillars of salt!

> > Luke 17:32 "Remember Lot's wife". Why would Yeshua command rememberance of such an event. BECAUSE LOT's DEPARTURE WAS A SPRINGTIME EVENT, as was the Departure from Egypt, as was the departure (return from exile) from Babylon (See Ezra, Neh.), as will likely be the rapture.

I think the Pre-Trib Rapture is as the days of Noah, and the Pre-Wrath Rapture is as the days of Lot. The second Rapture is in the fall, on the Feast of Trumpets.

In Luke 17:22-29, Jesus said, "The days will come, when ye shall desire to see ONE OF THE DAYS OF THE SON OF MAN (i.e., one of the two Raptures), and ye shall not see it (i.e., get left behind like the foolish virgins, Mt. 25:1f; Luke 12:46). And they shall say to you (i.e., the Tribulation saints), See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them. For AS THE LIGHTNING, THAT LIGHTENETH OUT OF THE ONE PART UNDER HEAVEN , SHINETH UNTO THE OTHER PART UNDER HEAVEN, SO SHALL ALSO THE SON OF MAN BE IN HIS DAY (THE DAY OF THE LORD WHEN THE SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN IS SEEN, Mt. 24:30, Rev. 6:12f). But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation. And AS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH (first Rapture), so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man ("days", plural, i.e., the two Raptures). They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also AS IT WAS IN THE DAYS OF LOT (second Rapture); they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; BUT THE SAME DAY THAT LOT WENT OUT OF SODOM IT RAINED FIRE AND BRIMSTONE FROM HEAVEN, and destroyed them all."

In the days of Noah, it rained water from the heavens. In the days of Lot, it rained fire and brimstone from the heavens. Two different times are depicted, one before the Tribulation, the other on the Feast of Trumpets, the great and terrible Day of the Lord. The days of Lot are like the day the two asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10 impact Earth on that Day of Destruction. Fire and brimstone will fall. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Name of Salvation

Aren't the names Yahweh and Yahushua the names of salvation? The Scriptures scrupulously limit the one name of salvation as being Yahweh. We should be reminded of Keph's (Peter's) quoting in part of Joel, 2:28-32. "For it will be (that) all who will call on the name Yahweh shall be saved." (Acts, 2:14-21)

Therefore one does not receive salvation by calling on the messiah's true earthly name of Yahushua, even though Yahushua contains part of the sacred name (i.e., "Yahu"). There is only one name by which mankind can attain salvation: the name shared by our heavenly father and his son Yahushua, the name that will also be shared by the saved, the full sacred name Yahweh.

For a detailed examination of this issue please refer to Chapter 17 of "The Sacred Name Yahweh."

My reply

I read your Chapter 17, and still think that the name of the haMashiach (Messiah, Christ) is the name that saves, whether we call him Jehoshua, Joshua, Yahshua, Y'shua, or Yeshua from the Hebrew; or Iesous, from the Greek; or Jesus, or Jesus Christ, in English.

When he addressed the Sanhedrin in Acts 4:8-12, the apostle Peter was "filled with the Holy Ghost". Therefore, it was by the inspiration of God when he said, "Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This (Jesus Christ) is the stone (i.e., the cornerstone) which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner (i.e., the head of Earth). NEITHER IS THERE SALVATION IN ANY OTHER; FOR THERE IS NONE OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN GIVEN AMONG MEN, WHEREBY WE MUST BE SAVED."

1 John 2:23 says, "Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) HE THAT ACKNOWLEDGETH THE SON HATH THE FATHER ALSO."

In 2 John 1:9, the apostle John said, "Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. HE THAT ABIDETH IN THE DOCTRINE OF CHRIST, HE HATH BOTH THE FATHER AND THE SON."

1John 5:4-7 says, "For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith. Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. For THERE ARE THREE THAT BEAR RECORD IN HEAVEN, THE FATHER, THE WORD (i.e., Jesus Christ, John 1:1-3,14), AND THE HOLY GHOST: AND THESE THREE ARE ONE."

Col 1:13-18 says, "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. For it pleased the father that in him (Jesus Christ) should all fulness dwell".

Phil 2:9-11 says, "Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the father" (see Isa. 45:23).

In Hosea 5:15, Jesus says, "I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early." In Hosea 6:1-3, Israel is talking, saying, "Come, and let us return unto the LORD (YHWH, King of Israel, who is also YHWH of hosts, the REDEEMER, JESUS CHRIST, Isa. 44:6): for he hath torn, and he will heal us; he hath smitten, and he will bind us up. After two days (i.e., after 2000 years) will he revive us: in the third day (i.e., 3rd millennium) he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight. Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD (YHWH): his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he (YHWH of hosts, Jesus Christ the Redeemer) shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter (Nisan 1, the Second Advent) and former rain (Tishri 1, the First Advent) unto the earth." Shalom and agape

Jerry Golden, Re: Feast of Tabernacles, Booths? (Birth day of Messiah Yeshua?)

Leviticus 23: 33-44 tells us the story of the Israelites and their journey out of Egypt and the following 40 years of wondering. We can find the name Sukkoth in Gen. 33:17 ?And Jacob journeyed to Succoth; and built for himself a house, and made booths for the livestock, therefore the place is named Sukkoth.? The Hebrew word Sukkoth means ?hut?

The Biblical name for Sukkoth is ?The Feast of Tabernacles". There are three times the Lord commanded the Jews to assemble in the Temple in Jerusalem. On these three Holidays they were to present offerings to the Lord. Those three are Passover, Shavuoth, (Pentecost) and Sukkoth. Sukkoth is the third and last of the three.

But in the month of Tishri, there are three major Holidays of the Feast of the Tabernacle of the Lord, which is God?s perfect timetable. The month of Tishri falls in September or October on the Christian Calendar. They are Rosh HaShannah, Yom Kippur, and Sukkoth. These three are often called the Second Advent. The First Advent we have the Feast of Unleavened Bread, Passover and First Fruits. Yeshua died on Unleavened Bread, He was buried on Passover, and He rose on First Fruits, 50 days later he sent the Holy Spirit on the Following Feast of Shavuoth (Pentecost). So we see here that God is setting up a pattern for us to look for. So we need to look at the remainder of the three Feasts to see the rest of the story, (sounds like Paul Harvey) something as important as the Birth of the Messiah would surely fit into this pattern.

You can purchase books (Passover Hagadah's) everywhere that tell you about how to celebrate this Holiday so I will stay on subject, and only touch on a couple of things you may not find in some of your books. In general there is a two-fold meaning to this celebration in Israel and throughout the world. The first being the Fall Harvest Lev. 23: that teaches it is a time of bringing in the fall harvest and thanksgiving. Many believe as I do, that the Puritan Colonists who landed in America who were great students of the Hebrew Scriptures based the first American Thanksgiving on Sukkoth.

The second is found in the command to dwell in Booths as a memory to Israel?s 40 years of wondering in the wilderness. Another translation of the world Sukkoth is ?habitation? as we camp in booths today we need to remember that the same God is watching over us today. That He inhabits our lives with a care beyond our imagination. Sukkoth is known also as ?Zman Simkhatenu? (The Time of Rejoicing) the knowledge that God provided His habitation and lives with us, is certainly a time for rejoicing.

There are blessings said over the ?Lulav? (palm branch), ?Etrog? (citron, a fruit from Israel that looks like a large lemon) also the ?Hadas? (Myrtle) and ?Arava? (the youngest branch of the willow before it opens) These are called the four spices. The only reason I am spending some time on this is there is something very special here in Biblical teaching. First the Etrog, which taste sweet and has a delightful aroma, represents a person with knowledge or Torah and good deeds. The Lulav which comes from a Date Palm, a fruit that taste sweet but has no fragrance, meaning that some people have knowledge but no good deeds. The Hadas is just opposite, having a nice fragrance yet no taste (good deeds without true knowledge) Arava has neither taste nor smell and speaks of the persons without knowledge or good deeds. James 2:17 sums this up by saying ?Faith without works is dead.?

Now lets move on to the birth of the Messiah. With the celebration of Sukkoth having so many wonderful teaching in it for the Church today. You would think that the New Testament would have reference in it of Sukkoth. We read in John 1:1 ?In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.? It says, the Word not only was with God, but the Word was the very manifestation of God Himself.

Then we read in John 1:14 ?And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld his glory, and glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth?. What the Word of God says is, ?The Word became a human being and lived with us, and we saw His Sh?kinah, The Sh?kinah glory of the Father? only Son full of grace and Glory. But did you notice the word John used to described this event. He said ?dwelt? among His people. This word dwelt come from a Greek word ?skene? and the Greeks translated that from the Hebrew word ?Tabernacle?. What I am trying to get you to see is, John was describing the Holy Day of Sukkoth, the Holy Day that celebrates the indwelling of God Himself. So the Word says: And the Word was made flesh and Tabernacled among us,?

The celebration of December 25th as the birth of the Messiah is pagan, and comes from the Roman Empire. The early Church often ?christianized? pagan days of celebration to accommodate the new converts. And December shows this very clearly. This date was an ancient feast that celebrated the return of the sun after the winter solatice. It has absolutely nothing to do with the birth of Yeshua. Believers began to say there was no real proof of the Messiah?s birth date so this would do. What they didn?t consider was John?s description using the term ?Tabernacle? or Booths or Sukkoth. It is right there before us and so clear I can?t understand how it has been so missed by so many who calls themselves Biblical scholars.

If the first Advent showed Yeshua?s death on the cross on Unleavened Bread, buried on Passover, and resurrection of First Fruits, and the pouring out of His Holy Spirit on Shavout (Pentacost). Do you think that God would let such an important event as the birth of His only begotten Son go unheralded?

Sukkoth shows that God would dwell ?Tabernacle? in the midst of His people, through the presence of the Messiah, Yeshua. There is much more evidence as well, since we know that Yeshua died on Passover and we also know His ministry lasted 3 ? years we can backtrack and that puts us right at Sukkoth as well. Nearly every serious Bible Theologian calculates that His birth was in the fall, that also is Sukkoth.

One of the ceremonies of Sukkoth is the pouring of water, and a time of prayer for water and rain in Israel. During the second Temple period a Priest would take a water pitcher down to the pool of shiloach (today called Siloam in the city of David) he would bring it back to the Temple. Crowds of people would follow him dancing and singing the Hellel, (Psalms 113-118) The highlight of this ceremony was when the Priest would pour this water at the altar of the Temple. It became known as ?Simcha Bet-Ha-sho-evah? (The rejoicing of the House of Drawing Water)

The question is, why would there be so much rejoicing at this pouring of water? It has to be more than rejoicing of the future rain on Israel, as important as that might be. Because we read in Isaiah 12:3 ?Therefore with joy shall ye draw water out of the wells of salvation?. (Salvation in Hebrew is Yeshua, the name of the Messiah) GLORY TO GOD.

It was much more than the pouring out of water at the Temple, or even for the rain. The Simcha Bet Ha-sho-evah pointed directly to the coming of the Messiah and the days of redemption when the water of the Holy Spirit would be poured out upon all Israel.

Now we can appreciate the Scripture that was recorded on one day in the Messiah?s life and that day was on a Sukkoth. John 7:37-39 ?In the last day, that great day of the feast, Yeshua stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. But this spoke he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given: because Yeshua was not yet glorified.) Think for a moment of the time and place of these words being proclaimed by Yeshua. It was Sukkoth and it was the time of the pouring of the water. The crowds were filled with those who had expectation of the Messiah and the Holy Spirit He would bring. At the moment of the time of the pouring of the water the Messiah stood and made this bold proclamation. He was saying. I am the Messiah, do you truly want the living water of the spirit of God? If you truly want the Bet Ha-sho-evah, believe in me. I am the Messiah who will pour out the Holy Spirit on Israel.

After eight days of Sukkoth we will end this celebration, and on the 8th day our Messiah was circumcised... Shalom, jerry golden

My email to Jerry Golden

> > Yeshua died on Unleavened Bread, He was buried on Passover

I believe Yeshua was crucified, died and buried on the Preparation of the Passover (Thursday, Nisan 13, April 6, 30 AD Julian).

Lev 23:5-7 says, "In the fourteenth day of the first month at even (starting at 6 PM on Nisan 13) is the LORD'S passover (Nisan 14). And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

Saturday, Nisan 8, Yeshua arrived at Bethany SIX DAYS BEFORE THE PASSOVER (John 12:1,12,13) (8th + 6 = 14th)
Sunday, Nisan 9, Palm Sunday, Yeshua presented himself as King
Monday, Nisan 10, Yeshua cursed the fig tree and purified the Temple
Tuesday, Nisan 11, fig tree was dried up, Yeshua gave the Olivet Discourse
Wednesday, Nisan 12, Yeshua anointed for burial. It was TWO DAYS BEFORE THE PASSOVER (Mark 14:1) (12th + 2 = 14th)
Thursday, Nisan 13, preparation of the Passover - CRUCIFIXION 9 AM - Last Supper after 13th started 6 PM Wed.
Friday, Nisan 14, PASSOVER - first day since - started 6 PM Thurs.
Saturday, Nisan 15, UNLEAVENED BREAD- second day since - started 6 PM Fri.
Sunday, Nisan 16, FIRSTFRUITS - Resurrection (third day rise again, Luke 24:7) - THIRD DAY SINCE (Luke 24:21) - started 6 PM Sat.

Mar 14:1,2 says, AFTER TWO DAYS was the feast of the passover, and of unleavened bread: and the chief priests and the scribes sought how they might take him by craft, and put him to death. But they said, NOT ON THE FEAST DAY, lest there be an uproar of the people."

John 19:13-15 says, "When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gabbatha. And IT WAS THE PREPARATION OF THE PASSOVER, and about the sixth hour (Roman time, i.e., 9 AM our time): and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King! But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him."

John 19:30-33 says, "When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and GAVE UP THE GHOST. The Jews therefore, because IT WAS THE PREPARATION, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for FOR THAT SABBATH DAY WAS AN HIGH DAY [the annual Sabbath, Passover],) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away. Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him. But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs" John 19:36 says, "not a bone of him shall be broken."

Yeshua Christ is our Passover. 1Co 5:7 says, "Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ OUR PASSOVER is sacrificed for us". He was put on the cross at the time of the morning sacrifice. HE DIED "BETWEEN THE TWO EVENINGS" (Ex. 12:6, literal translation, Green's Interlinear), "at the going down of the sun" (De. 16:6), i.e., between 3 and 5 PM on Thursday, Nisan 13). The going down of the Sun portrayed Yeshua, as the "Sun of righteousness" (Mal. 4:2), when he "descended first into the lower parts of the earth" (Eph. 4:9).

While on the cross, Yeshua told the thief, "TO DAY SHALT THOU BE WITH ME IN PARADISE (Luke 23:43). That day was Thursday, the "preparation of the passover".

Mark 15:42-46 says, "And now WHEN THE EVEN WAS COME, BECAUSE IT WAS THE PREPARATION (i.e., Thursday, Nisan 13), THAT IS THE DAY BEFORE THE SABBATH (Nisan 14, the Passover annual Sabbath, an high day), Joseph of Arimathaea, an honourable counsellor, which also waited for the kingdom of God, came, and went in boldly unto Pilate, and craved the body of Jesus. And Pilate marvelled if he were already dead: and calling unto him the centurion, he asked him whether he had been any while dead. And when he knew it of the centurion, he gave the body to Joseph. And he bought fine linen, and took him down, and wrapped him in the linen, and LAID HIM IN A SEPULCHRE".

From his death until his resurrection, Yeshua spent "THREE DAYS AND THREE NIGHTS IN THE HEART OF THE EARTH" (Mt. 12:40). Hebrew days are 12 hours of night, then 12 hours of day. Those three days and three nights were Thursday (day), Friday (night then day), Saturday (night then day), and Sunday (night).

Sunday was the third day since the Crucifixion. Luke 24:21 says, "But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day (Sunday) is the THIRD DAY SINCE these things were done" (i.e., [1] Friday, [2] Saturday and [3] Sunday).

In Ant. XVIII. III. 3, Josephus said, "Now, there was about this time, Jesus, a wise man, if it be lawful to call him a man, for he was a doer of wonderful works,--a teacher of such men as receive the truth with pleasure. He drew over to him both many of the Jews, and many of the Gentiles. He was [the] Christ; and when Pilate, at the suggestion of the principal men amongst us, had condemned him to the cross, those that loved him at the first did not forsake him, for he appeared to them ALIVE AGAIN THE THIRD DAY, as the divine prophets had foretold these and ten thousand other wonderful things concerning him; and the tribe of Christians, so named from him, are not extinct at this day."

The Tractate Sanhedrin 43a, in the Babylonian Talmud, says, "ON THE EVE OF PESAH THEY HUNG JESHU (THE NAZARENE). And the crier went forth before him forty days (saying), [Jeshu the Nazarene] goeth forth to be stoned, because he hath practiced magic and deceived and led astray Israel. Any one who knoweth aught in his favour, let him come and declare concerning him. And they found naught in his favour, And THEY HUNG HIM ON THE EVE OF PESAH."

> > the Word was made flesh and Tabernacled among us".
> > Nearly every serious Bible Theologian calculates that His birth was in the fall, that also is Sukkoth.

Rev 12:1-5 tells us how part of the sky looked when Yeshua was born. It says, "there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman (Virgo) clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet (i.e., it is Tishri 1), and upon (or over) her head a crown of twelve stars (Corona Borealis): And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered. And ... the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born. And she brought forth a man child (Yeshua), who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and HER CHILD WAS CAUGHT UP (harpazo, as in the Rapture in I Thess. 4:16,17) UNTO GOD, AND TO HIS THRONE (Heaven, Saturn, "as the appearance of a sapphire stone," meaning dear to the planet Saturn, from the Sanskrit Sani, Saturn, and priya, dear, Eze. 1:26)." Mt. Sinai also represented Heaven. It is probably derived from Sani, Saturn, too. There was a sapphire pavement under His feet.

When Yeshua was caught up, people saw him ascend to the clouds. At the Rapture, the Bride of Christ will also be seen ascending to the clouds.

Acts 1:9-11 says, "And when he (Yeshua) had spoken these things, while they beheld, HE WAS TAKEN UP AND A CLOUD RECEIVED HIM OUT OF THEIR SIGHT. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven." Ex. 24:10 says, "And they saw the God of Israel (Yeshua, the Redeemer, the LORD of hosts, the King of Israel, Isa. 44:6): and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a SAPPHIRE STONE, AND AS IT WERE THE BODY OF HEAVEN (heavenly body, i.e., Saturn) IN HIS CLEARNESS."

Psa. 40:1-3 says, "I waited patiently (as in Rev. 3:10) for the LORD; and he inclined (bent down) unto me, and heard my cry. He BROUGHT ME UP also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay (as Jeremiah was pulled out of the miry pit), and set my feet upon a rock (Heaven, a planet), and established MY GOINGS (at the time of the Rapture). And he hath put a NEW SONG (sung by the Bride saints in Rev. 5:9) in my mouth, even praise unto our God: MANY SHALL SEE IT (the Rapture), AND FEAR, AND SHALL TRUST IN THE LORD."

Yeshua was born when Virgo was clothed with the Sun, and the Crescent Moon was at her feet. This sign occurs every year on Tishri 1. This is proof that Yeshua/Jesus was born on Tishri 1, the Feast of Trumpets, instead of on Tabernacles. This sign occurred right after the first Adam was created, on the Sabbath Day when God rested on Tishri 1, 283 BJE, before Jewish Era, Sept. 18, 4044 BC Julian). It also took place on Tishri 1, 3757 (Sept. 4, 5 BC, Julian), when Yeshua, the second Adam, was born....

Each Tishri 1 has the same sign, and not only these. Any Tishri 1 has the same sign. Virgo is clothed with the Sun and has the Crescent Moon at her feet. That is how the Sun and Moon regulate the Hebrew Calendar, and have been doing this ever since the day God rested in Genesis 1.

Tishri 1, 283 BJE (before Jewish Era), Sept. 18, 4044 BC (Julian) (Virgo's feet are near the "t" in Caput)

Tishri 1, 3757, Sept. 4, 5 BC (Julian)

Tishri 1, 5766, Oct. 5, 2005 (Gregorian)

Tishri 1, 5771, Sept. 11, 2010 (Gregorian)

Shalom and agape

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