Pro and Con 1270

Posted 12-31-05

Incoming e-mail, Re: A whole new way of looking at the End times and the Rapture

I thought you would enjoy reading this. This is some of the most insightful material I have read. The PDF on the rapture is very interesting.

http://www.yourarmstoisrael.org/

STUMBLING_BLOCK_TO_RESTORATION.pdf

Also check out these other sites. I'd start with the Fullness of the Gentiles article directly below.
http://www.revelations.org.za/FullGent.htm
http://www.revelations.org.za/Lib.htm
http://www.torahvoice.org/newslett.htm
http://members.aol.com/gkilli/home/index.html
http://www.millennium7000.com/m700-site.htm
http://www.revelations.org.za/FullGent.htm
http://www.revelations.org.za/Lib.htm
http://www.torahvoice.org/newslett.htm
http://members.aol.com/gkilli/home/index.html
http://www.gogumogog.com/html/gog_from_the_land_of_mogog.html
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A STUMBLING BLOCK TO RESTORATION
By Rabbi Moshe Joseph Koniuchowsky
http://www.yourarmstoisrael.org/Articles_new/restoration/STUMBLING_BLOCK_TO_RESTORATION.pdf
The teachings of the doctrine of a separate secret rapture, apart from the promised resurrection of the dead following the Great Tribulation, (Daniel 12:1-2) remains one of the major stumbling blocks in the restoration of both houses of our people Israel. Since it is the Father's agenda to unite the two houses in His love and His truth, any error, expecially one as massive as the fabrication of the "secret rapture?, must be dealt with and corrected with the Word of Yahweh. Yahweh's Word does not teach rapture and therefore neither should we!...The unity we seek among all of Israel can only be achieved with a clear understanding of the errors of the rapture doctrine, so that corrections can be made and so that oneness can be achieved....

The problem with Ephraim-Israel's subscription to the doctrine of the "secret rapture" is that it contradicts Yahweh's revealed will....

Yahweh Almighty does not teach a pre-tribulation rapture and if we as Messianic Israel do insist on teaching it, (thus proliferating the most divisive doctrine in religious circles today). I fear our full national restoration must wait for other more teachable generations yet to come....

The doctrine of the rapture is a late 18th century invention of certain men, who held to a dispensationalist view of history. It is a doctrine that is totally foreign to the Bible and Hebraic, thought and culture. Not a single rabbi (traditional or messianic) in any ancient rabbinic literature ever spoke of or even remotely made reference to a pre-tribulation rapture....

Pre-tribulation rapture teaching, teaches Israelites to have a false hope of "peace and safety" prior to the soon coming full two-stick reunion in the millennium, rather than to watch and pray, for strength to endure the onslaught of Great Tribulation.

We owe it to our Savior to eradicate this scourge from our midst, if we are to become the great restoration movement that Yahweh desired us to be.

The Scriptures are plainly clear that a resurrection of the believers in Messiah Hahshua will take place. That is a certainty! As we will shortly learn, this catching up of the living and the righteous redeemed dead are parts A and B of the first blessed and holy resurrection. What pre-tribulation rapture teaching has done, is to separate part A and part B of the first blessed pre-millennial resurrection, making Part A stand on its own as a "Christian" pre-tribulation secret rapture....

In order to make room for all the Tribulation events, he (Emanuel Lacunza, pen name Iben Ezra, in 1747) surmised that there had to be a time separation between the calling up of believers and the actual return to earth of Messiah. This was the historical germ that grew into the now commonly taught error that Messiah comes three times. The second time for His people and the third time with His people. ...Yahshua Almighty on the other hand spoke only of two comings to earth. Whose report will you believe?...

Whether Yahshua lands on earth or not, is not the issue that defines a physical parousia, or a physical coming!Rather what defines a coming physical appearance of the Son of Yahweh is His descent from the third heaven. If He descends from the third heaven (His home) and leaves the right hand of the Farther (siq), that is in fact a coming, regardless of where He does or does not land!

Hebrews 9:28 states: "So Messiah was once offered to bear the sins of many, and to them that look for Him shall He appear the second time apart from sin unto salvation." A secret rapture would be a third coming!...

Messiah Yahshua's appearing, as seen in the above verse, is synonymous to His second coming, which takes place at the dawn of His Kingdom, which by definition would mean jest prior to the millennial reign of Rev. 20:4-5. His appearing is His coming, at the start of His earthly government! Messiah will raise (catch up) the faithful dead and righteous of all the ages past, along with changing the living....

Thus "the catching up" or harpazo (Greek) rapturo (Latin Vulgate), is nothing more than the promise of the ages coming to pass at Yahshua's return, which is the promised first and blessed resurrection of the saved righteous dead. Part A of the first resurrection is the raising from the dead of all believers who died in all the ages past. Part B of the same first and blessed resurrection, is the standing up or catching up of living believers, in order to be changed into their new resurrected body for the millennium....

The error of pre-tribulation rapture dogma, is due to the failure to rightly divide these passages, as being two parts of the first pre-millennial resssurection (siq) of all the saints of all the ages, as opposed to using these two parts and formulating part B into a separate and secret third coming! The qualifier in 1st Thessalonians a4:15, refers to the events of verses 16-17, as events surrounding His coming, not His secret unbiblical clandestine appearance. First Corinthian 15:42-52 wonderfully confirms these verses as referring to change not rapture.

In Luke 21:36 those who propagate the Jesuit creation of the "secret pre-tribulation rapture" have misapplied the text. The original Greek does not state "pray always that you may be accouted worthy to escape all these things that shall comes to pass". Rather in the Greek text this verse does not teach "an escape" from the tribulation. The proper translation as found in the New American Standard version as will as the New International Version, are the words strength (NASV) or able (NIV) to escape. Why would we need to pray for strength, ability and alertness in Luke 21:36, if we are not here in that period?

In Rev. 3:10 Yahweh promises to keep us from the hour of temptation, coming to try and test all the earth's dwellers. Those who propagate anti-Semitic rapture doctrines insist that the word keep means to translate believers to heaven, in a secret rapture. Yet the text does not bear this out! The word for keep in Rev. 3:10 is the Greek word tereo, which carries the meaning: to watch over, preserve, keep through, or keep and protect away from [danger]. The basic primary meaning is to protect. Yahweh has always promised to protect His people in tribulation, not remove them from it....

My reply

Thanks. I disagree with the Rabbi on the Pre-Trib Rapture, but am delighted that he believes in Yahshua. That is more than many Israelites can understand.

The Rabbi is sure in his own mind that the Rapture is a "third coming by night in a secret appearance", and therefore a false teaching, because there are only two comings of Yahshua. I'm glad he can see this much. Many Jews can not even see that there are two comings of Ha Mashiach.

In spite of his twisting scriptures to make them agree with his viewpoint, I am glad that he is sure enough of what he believes to be able to defend it. How many other Jews could write 20 pages on why he doesn't believe that there will be a Pre-Trib Rapture? It is much more important to be saved by faith in Yahshua than to understand the Pre-Trib Rapture.
The Rabbi wrote:
> > The Scriptures are plainly clear that a resurrection of the believers in Messiah Hahshua will take place. That is a certainty!

I'm glad he can clearly see this much.

> > As we will shortly learn, this catching up of the living and the righteous redeemed dead are parts A and B of the first blessed and holy resurrection. What pre-tribulation rapture teaching has done, is to separate part A and part B of the first blessed pre-millennial resurrection, making Part A stand on its own as a "Christian" pre-tribulation secret rapture....

He comes pretty close to the correct understanding here, but misses the fact that "Part A" can actually "stand on its own as a "Christian" pre-tribulation secret rapture".

I think there will be two Raptures, Pre-Trib and Pre-Wrath, plus the Second Coming. I Cor. 15:22,23 says, "in Christ shall all be made alive. But every man in his own order (tagmati, rank): Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."

> > In order to make room for all the Tribulation events, he (Emanuel Lacunza, pen name Iben Ezra, in 1747) surmised that there had to be a time separation between the calling up of believers and the actual return to earth of Messiah. This was the historical germ that grew into the now commonly taught error that Messiah comes three times. The second time for His people and the third time with His people. ...Yahshua Almighty on the other hand spoke only of two comings to earth. Whose report will you believe?...

Again, the Rabbi comes close without grasping the whole truth. I believe that there are two Comings when Yahshua will be seen walking on the Earth and two comings to meet the saints in the air in between those two Comings.

> > Whether Yahshua lands on earth or not, is not the issue that defines a physical parousia, or a physical coming!Rather what defines a coming physical appearance of the Son of Yahweh is His descent from the third heaven. If He descends from the third heaven (His home) and leaves the right hand of the Father, that is in fact a coming, regardless of where He does or does not land!

> > Hebrews 9:28 states: "So Messiah was once offered to bear the sins of many, and to them that look for Him shall He appear the second time apart from sin unto salvation." A secret rapture would be a third coming!...

I don't call either Rapture a third coming. There are two Comings to walk on the Earth and two Raptures, Pre-Trib and Pre-Wrath.

(1) First Coming (5 BC to 30 AD)
(2) First Rapture, Pre-Trib, at first "trump of God" (I Thess. 4:16, 17) (next in the order of these events)
(3) Second Rapture, Pre-Wrath (at the "last trump," I Cor. 15:51,52)
(4) Second Coming

> > Messiah Yahshua's appearing, as seen in the above verse, is synonymous to His second coming, which takes place at the dawn of His Kingdom, which by definition would mean just prior to the millennial reign of Rev. 20:4-5. His appearing is His coming, at the start of His earthly government! Messiah will raise (catch up) the faithful dead and righteous of all the ages past, along with changing the living....

Again, he comes close without seeing the whole picture. Heb. 9:28 says, "to them that look for Him (i.e., the Bride-of-Christ saints) shall He appear the second time apart from sin unto salvation." Christ will "appear" to those that look for Him at the Pre-Trib Rapture. At that time, he will not appear to others on Earth.

At the Second Rapture, the Sign of the Son of Man will be seen in the sky by both believers being caught up and by unbelievers left on Earth. The reason Yahshua will be seen on his throne is because that will be the first day of His kingdom, the Millennium, the Day of the Lord, The Day of God's Wrath (Eze. 38:18-20), Tishri 1, the first day of the Civil Calendar.

The Second Advent will take place seven months later (Eze. 39:12,13), on Nisan 1, the first day of the Regnal and Sacred Year. Yahshua will probably be inaugurated on Nisan 1. That is the day all the other Hebrew kings counted as their first day in office, no matter when they actually began to reign.

> > Thus "the catching up" or harpazo (Greek) rapturo (Latin Vulgate), is nothing more than the promise of the ages coming to pass at Yahshua's return, which is the promised first and blessed resurrection of the saved righteous dead. Part A of the first resurrection is the raising from the dead of all believers who died in all the ages past. Part B of the same first and blessed resurrection, is the standing up or catching up of living believers, in order to be changed into their new resurrected body for the millennium....

He is close, but not close enough. The Pre-Trib Rapture is part of the First Resurrection. So is the Pre-Wrath Rapture. There are ranks in the First Resurrection. I Cor. 15:23 says, "But every man in his own order (tagmati, rank): Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming."

> > In Luke 21:36 those who propagate the Jesuit creation of the "secret pre-tribulation rapture" have misapplied the text. The original Greek does not state "pray always that you may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall comes to pass". Rather in the Greek text this verse does not teach "an escape" from the tribulation. The proper translation as found in the New American Standard version as will as the New International Version, are the words strength (NASV) or able (NIV) to escape. Why would we need to pray for strength, ability and alertness in Luke 21:36, if we are not here in that period?

This is one of the scriptures he twists. In his Hebrew-Greek-English Bible, Green translates Luke 21:35,36 as "for it ('that day') shall come as a snare on all those sitting on the face of the whole earth. Then watch, praying in every season that you may be counted worthy to escape all these things which are about to happen and to stand before the Son of man."

We will stand before the "Son of man" (KJV) after the Pre-Trib Rapture (as in Rev. 1:13).

> > In Rev. 3:10 Yahweh promises to keep us from the hour of temptation, coming to try and test all the earth's dwellers. Those who propagate anti-Semitic rapture doctrines insist that the word keep means to translate believers to heaven, in a secret rapture. Yet the text does not bear this out! The word for keep in Rev. 3:10 is the Greek word tereo, which carries the meaning: to watch over, preserve, keep through, or keep and protect away from [danger]. The basic primary meaning is to protect. Yahweh has always promised to protect His people in tribulation, not remove them from it.

The word translated "from" in Rev. 3:10 is "ek", meaning "out of". It is also used in Rev. 5:9, "thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood OUT OF (ek) every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation." Since "ek" means "out of" in Rev. 5:9, I think it means "out of" in Rev. 3:10. The Bride saints that will be caught up at the first "trump of God" (I Thess. 4:16,17) will be kept OUT OF the Tribulation, which is the trial "which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth."

When the first Rapture is past, the trial to come will determine who is to be caught up at the "last trump," the Second Rapture.

> > The error of pre-tribulation rapture dogma, is due to the failure to rightly divide these passages, as being two parts of the first pre-millennial resurrection of all the saints of all the ages, as opposed to using these two parts and formulating part B into a separate and secret third coming! The qualifier in 1st Thessalonians 4:15, refers to the events of verses 16-17, as events surrounding His coming, not His secret unbiblical clandestine appearance. First Corinthian 15:42-52 wonderfully confirms these verses as referring to change not rapture.

I think Paul and the entire company of saints, the Body of Christ, will be made immortal when they are changed at the "last trump", the last Rapture.

> > As we can see, not much has changed! THE FALSE TEACHING OF EASY ESCAPE HAD PERMEATED THE EARLY ASSEMBLIES.

That is strange since he said the Pre-Trib Rapture wasn't taught until 1747.

> > In 1st Thessalonians 5:3, Rav Shaul sternly warns that there is a false doctine of peace and safety or "Great Tribulation Escape" being propagated, that is guaranteed to bring those looking for escape from the Great Tribulation into destruction. He contrasts this destructive teaching and understanding, with that of the watchful and alert Thessalonians, who are willing to endure much pain while they "watch and wait". The contrast is between the correct "watch and wait" biblical attitude, and the "lets escape and party" attitude.

To understand this scripture, we must pay attention to the difference between "ye" and "they." 1Th 5:1-11 says, "But of the times and the seasons, brethren (believers), ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord (which is the Day of the Pre-Wrath Rapture before noon, Zeph. 2:3-5, and the Day of God's Wrath) so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they (unbelievers) shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and THEY SHALL NOT ESCAPE (i.e., in the Pre-Wrath Rapture). But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober. For they that sleep sleep in the night; and they that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him. Wherefore COMFORT YOURSELVES together, and edify one another, even as also ye do."

I Thess. 4:16-18 also says for us to comfort one another. "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God (the first trump, i.e., the first Rapture): and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore COMFORT ONE ANOTHER with these words."

There is no comfort on the Day of God's Wrath. The comfort is to be caught up at the first trump, before the Tribulation begins.

> > We are not going to escape, we are going to experience deliverance and Yahweh's loving protection on the earth, as did Noah in his days. Those who endure to the end of the Great Tribulation (Matthew 24:13) will be delivered! For the days of the coming (Not comings) of the Son of Man, is likened to the days of Noah!

Luke 17:22 shows that there are two Days of the Son of Man. It says, " Jesus knows that there are two Days of the Son of Man, one as the days of Noah, the other as the days of Lot. Luke 17:22 says, "he said unto the disciples, The days (plural) will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it."

Luke 12:46 tells us what happens to those that don't see one of the Days of the Son of Man. It says, "The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware (i.e., at the Pre-Trib Rapture), and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him his portion (the shortened Tribulation) with the unbelievers."

> > The so-called "rapture" is simply the mysterious changing of living believers from mortality to immortality, without experiencing death.

The Pre-Trib Rapture catches the Bride saints up to Heaven. Then, at the end of the shortened Tribulation, Mt 24:31 says, "he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet (the first trump sounds again), and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, FROM ONE END OF HEAVEN TO THE OTHER." These are the saints previously caught up at the beginning of the Tribulation. That's why they have to be gathered to the General Assembly in Heaven (Heb. 12:23) from one end of Heaven to the other.

At the same time, the Tribulation saints are caught up to the General Assembly in Heaven. Mark 13:27 says, "then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH (i.e., at the Pre-Wrath Rapture) to the uttermost part of heaven" (to gather the Pre-Trib saints that are already in Heaven).

> > You cannot have 2 first resurrections!

However, you can have rank A, when Jesus was resurrected and took the Old Testament saints to Heaven on Resurrection Day, rank B, at the Pre-Trib Rapture, and rank C, at the end of the shortened Tribulation. All those are ranks in the First Resurrection.

> > Looking closer at Daniel 12:1, when Michael is ordered to cease and desist by Yahweh from his protective caring role, then and only then is the seven year Great Tribulation is set to begin.

The time is at the end of the shortened Tribulation, when the False Prophet comes to his end (Dan. 11:45). Dan. 12:1 says, "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be A TIME OF TROUBLE, SUCH AS NEVER WAS SINCE THERE WAS A NATION EVEN TO THAT SAME TIME (i.e., it is the Day of God's Wrath): and at that time thy people (the 144,000 of Rev. 7) shall be delivered (in the Pre-Wrath Rapture), every one that shall be found written in the book."

Jer 30:6,7 says, "Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness? Alas! for THAT DAY (one day, THE DAY OF GOD'S WRATH) is great, so that NONE IS LIKE IT: IT IS EVEN THE TIME OF JACOB'S TROUBLE; but he shall be saved out of it."

> > this of course refers to Yahweh's return to earth in the person of His beloved Son Yahshua...

I praise the Lord that this Rabbi has this much understanding of who Yahshua really is.

Prov 30:4 says, "Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name (Yahweh), and what is his son's name (Yahshua), if thou canst tell?"

1Cor 15:47 says, "The first man (Adam, 'which was the son of God,' Luke 3:38) is of the earth, earthy: THE SECOND MAN (i.e., Yahshua, the Son of God) IS THE LORD FROM HEAVEN."

> > While the word ekklesia is not mentioned after Rev. chapter 4, the term believers and saints certainly are. These terms are all snonymous. The ekklesia is simply the sum total of its saintly parts. If most of the book of Revelation does not apply to the ekklesia on earth during the events described in it, why would the book of Revelation begin and end with references to the ekklesia on earth awaiting the Master Yahshua's return?

In the Bible, there are Old Testament saints, New Testament saints, and Tribulation saints.

The whole dramatic script of "The Revelation of Jesus Christ" is written as if the Pre-Trib Rapture was at hand. It is "at hand" in both the first and last chapters (1:3; 22:10).

The setting of this dramatic play is when the Pre-Trib Rapture is "at hand." Yahshua's assessment of the seven churches is when the Pre-Trib Rapture is "at hand."

Rev. 1:19 says, "Write the things which thou hast seen (things before the Rapture), and the things which are (at the time of the Rapture), and the things which shall be hereafter (after the Pre-Trib Rapture).

In Rev. 4:1, the Rapture takes place. Then we are told that the following things take place "hereafter" the Rapture.

After the Pre-Trib Rapture, we see John and the other 23 elders sitting on 24 thrones in Heaven. Those elders are the 12 patriarchs of Israel and the 12 apostles of Israel. Yet more saints than 24 are seen in heaven, and THEY ARE OUT OF ALL NATIONS, NOT JUST ISRAEL. Rev. 5:8-10 says of these "saints. And they sung a NEW SONG, saying, Thou (Yahshua) art worthy to take the book (the Title Deed to the Earth), and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood OUT OF EVERY KINDRED, AND TONGUE, AND NATION; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on (epi, over) the earth."

When it is time to depict the Pre-Wrath Rapture, it includes the 144,000 Israelites plus the rest of the Tribulation saints.

Rev. 7:9-16 says, "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb....And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, THESE ARE THEY WHICH CAME OUT OF GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and SERVE HIM DAY AND NIGHT IN HIS TEMPLE: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat."

In Rev. 14:2-5, we get another view of the Tribulation saints. "And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: And they sung as it were a NEW SONG before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed (i.e., raptured) FROM THE EARTH. These are they which were not defiled with women; for THEY ARE VIRGINS (foolish virgins at the first Rapture, now wise at the second Rapture). These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for THEY ARE WITHOUT FAULT before the throne of God" (i.e., they have confessed their sins committed after they accepted Christ [I John 1:9] to bring all sins under the blood of Christ).

After the Tribulation saints are raptured, the seven trumpet judgments hit Earth (Rev. 8f). It is the Day of God's Wrath.

The Pre-Trib saints are caught up to the throne of God before the Tribulation begins. The Pre-Wrath saints are caught up to the throne of God before God's wrath hits Earth at the end of the shortened Great Tribulation. Agape

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