Pro and Con 1275

Posted 2-6-06

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Ancient Synagogue Discovered in Ramallah Area - Posted Feb 07-06 By Scott Shiloh: http://www.israelnationalnews.com/news.php3?id=98111

Three weeks ago, Israeli police found a mosaic floor in an Arab car. The Antiquities Authority has confirmed that the floor belongs to a previously undiscovered synagogue in the Ramallah area....

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Beautiful APOD: A Sun Pillar in Red and Violet, Feb 5, 2006 APOD

Credit & Copyright: Jim Kirkpatrick & Brigitte Heiter-Kirkpatrick
http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap060205.html

IRON AND ICE
Deep Impact Team Reports First Evidence Of Cometary Ice

http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Deep_Impact_Team_Reports_First_Evidence_Of_Cometary_Ice.html

I find "iron" very interesting. It probably came from the core of Satan's planet Rahab that was split apart forming our Asteroid Belt. The water ice must have come from Rahab too.

Incoming e-mail, Changing Tishri 1

You said:
> >Why not on September 2? because Rev. 12:1,2 shows that Jesus was born when Virgo was clothed with the Sun, and the Moon was under her feet. Here is the sky chart for Sept. 4, 5 BC. The Sign is perfect. It was not right on the two preceding days.

The date of Tishri 1 is determined by the sighting of the new crescent Moon which would have easily occurred on the evening of Sep. 3rd, 5 BC (Sunday evening). What is the basis for your altering the calendar dates to fit your theory and supposed date of birth and what is your calendar source to support this change in the Jewish calendar. The sign was not perfect on Sep 3 or 4 which is why the birth did not occur on these days and it was not perfect on Sep. 5 because that was clearly not Tishri 1. If you can produce a valid calendar or some astronomical reasoning for why Tishri 1 would have been delayed a day to support your theory, please do. Revelation 12 presents the required conditions, it does not say that Sep of 5BC was the right year and the astronomical and calendar facts do not support your theory. I think it would also be helpful to define what "under her feet" means in some manner that is calcuable with respect to the constellation of Virgo.

My reply

Thanks for bringing this up.

I checked with these four calendar converters.
1. Calendarhome: http://www.calendarhome.com/converter/
2. Fourmilab: http://www.fourmilab.ch/documents/calendar/
3. Calendar Stats: http://www.abdicate.net/cal.aspx
4. Rosetta: http://www.rosettacalendar.com/

They all agree that Tishri 1, 3757 was the Julian Saturday, September 2, 5 BC. I can accept that. I feel like I can trust the calendar converters more than YourSky. Maybe the Moon was actually under the feet of Virgo on September 2 instead of 4. September 2 agrees with the September 2 date of the anniversary of the Battle of Actium, the date on which Quirinius held the next enrollment for taxation purposes. Therefore, I think Jesus was born on Saturday, September 2, 5 BC. (After further research, I changed back to Sept 4, 5 BC; details below.)

It always seemed reasonable that Jesus would be born on the Sabbath, because he said that he was Lord of the Sabbath. That was a good clue after all.

I'd appreciate it if you would check TheSky to see if the Moon was under the feet of Virgo on Sept. 2, 5 BC. Agape

His reply, Re: Jup/Sat 7BC Conjunctions

> There is something else that you might find of interest about the triple conjunction of Jupiter/Saturn in 7-6 BC. The altitude of the two planets above the horizon at the time of transiting would have placed them at and around the angle of the great pyramid at Giza, Eqypt, 51d51m. The particular date of Sep. 27th, 7 BC would have had the planets at the following altitudes at the time of transit:

From Jerusalem: Saturn 50d transit time: 10:42 pm Jupiter 51d 2m
From Giza: Saturn 51d 46m transit time: 10:58 pm Jupiter 52d 44m

The astronomers of Egypt would I think have made special notice of this event. Over the entire 8-9 month period the change would have been within a few degrees of the special 52d angle of the pyramid. Saturn would have always been the lower of the two planets. The pyramid angle being coincident with the ecliptic as seen from Giza or Jerusalem occurs only within the boundaries of the two constellations of Pisces and Libra during this time period. The Sun would cross this pyramid angle twice during the year around Mar 5-6 and Oct 13-14 for Giza and around Mar 9 and Oct 9 for Jerusalem. Notice that the two timelines are separated by 7 months during the year.

A previous triple conjunction of Jup/Sat (in Taurus) in the years 1536-35 BC is thought to have preceeded the birth of Moses. The previous one to also occur in Pisces was in 861-860 BC.

My reply

Thanks. That part about the pyramid is interesting, but I don't quite know what it could indicate. Do you have any ideas on that?

I ran into similar information (maybe Kepler said it), about the triple conjunction and the birth of Moses, but he was born when Lamech was 182, in 1056 AH (2987 BC). There was supposed to be one of the triple conjunctions at the time Adam was created too. I didn't find one using YourSky. Agape

His reply, Re: Changing Tishri 1

On Sep. 2 (Saturday evening), 5 BC, the Moons position was to the west of Spica, mid-bodied in Virgo and Moonset occurred at 6:30pm only 26 minutes after Sunset at 6:04pm. It was still to close to the Sun to have been spotted after sunset. Its position also does not fit the Rev. 12 passage. Although, most calendar programs imply that Saturday (Fri 6pm to Sat 6pm) was Tishri 1, this would seem to me to be impossible as the new Moon occurred on Friday evening and there was also a Solar Eclipse. There is absolutely no way a thin crescent Moon could have been sighted on Friday evening after 6 pm. On Sep. 3 (Sunday evening), 5 BC, the Moons postion was just to the east of Spica and still not in the area of the feet of Virgo and does not fit the Rev. 12 passage. Astronomically, the time of Moonset (about 6:55pm) was about 50 minutes after sunset and the visible sighting of a new crescent Moon would have been possible thus making Sunday evening the more likely beginning of Tishri 1. Whether Tishri 1 began on Fri, Sat, or Sun evening still will not meet the criteria of Rev. 12 having the Moon under the feet of Virgo. It is for these reasons that I think the year of 5 BC was not the birth year. The only year that remains that fits the criteria of Rev. 12 and the positon of the Moon along with being a Tishri 1 (Rosh Hashanah) is the year 3 BC and the Tishri 1 of Sep 11th.

My reply, Re: Changing Tishri 1 AGAIN

Thanks for looking these up on your program, TheSky. You left out Monday, September 4, 5 BC.. On the YourSky program, the sign is perfect, as you can see below. Virgo is clothed with the Sun, and the visible crescent Moon is under her feet, exactly as it says in Rev. 12:1-4.

On the September 3, 5 BC, chart below, you can see that the sign is not right. The Moon is not at Virgo's feet.

The sky on Sept. 11, 3 BC, looks like the following. The Moon is nearing Virgo's feet. In the white on black picture, I can see the thin crescent clearly. I'm glad you suggested I look at the white on black version. I have to use a magnifier to see it in this picture. It is just barely there.

The sign is even better on Sept. 12, 3 BC. See Below. The more likely to be seen Crescent Moon is directly under Virgo's feet.

Therefore, I think we should look at other criteria to decide between September 4, 5 BC, and September 11 or 12, 3 BC.

> > Although, most calendar programs imply that Saturday (Fri 6pm to Sat 6pm) was Tishri 1, this would seem to me to be impossible as the new Moon occurred on Friday evening and there was also a Solar Eclipse.

After searching for information about the reliability of fourmilab's YourSky program, I agree that Saturday, 9-2-5 BC is probably NOT the correct date. September 4, BC 5, is looking better all the time.

On the Internet, I found nothing but good things said about YourSky. My choice finally boiled down to two programs at fourmilab. Which is their most trustworthy computer program, Calendar Converter (http://www.fourmilab.com/documents/calendar/), or YourSky (http://www.fourmilab.ch/yoursky/)?

According to Calendar Converter, Tishri 1, 3757, was September 2, 5 BC.
According YourSky, Tishri 1, 3757, was September 4, 5 BC. Both can't be right.

Calendar Converter

After feeding in Sept. 2, 31 BC, the landmark date of the Battle of Actium, which marked the end of the Roman Republic and the beginning of the Roman Empire, I copied some of the information about the Julian, Gregorian and Hebrew calendars given in the Calendar Converter.

JULIAN: -31, Sept. 2, Monday

"The Julian calendar was proclaimed by Julius C?sar in 46 B.C. and underwent several modifications before reaching its final form in 8 C.E. The Julian calendar differs from the Gregorian only in the determination of leap years, lacking the correction for years divisible by 100 and 400 in the Gregorian calendar. In the Julian calendar, any positive year is a leap year if divisible by 4. (Negative years are leap years if the absolute value divided by 4 yields a remainder of 1.)"

In spite of that, I know that the Romans had added too many leap years in the Julian Calendar. So, they had stopped adding them by the time Jesus was born.

GREGORIAN: -30 (= 31 BC, subtracting the added 0 zero year), Aug. 31, Monday

"While one can't properly speak of "Gregorian dates" prior to the adoption of the calendar in 1582, the calendar can be extrapolated to prior dates. In doing so, this implementation uses the convention that the year prior to year 1 is year 0. This differs from the Julian calendar in which there is no year 0--the year before year 1 in the Julian calendar is year -1. The date December 30th, 0 in the Gregorian calendar corresponds to January 1st, 1 in the Julian calendar."

HEBREW: Elul 13, 3730, a Leap Year

"The Hebrew (or Jewish) calendar attempts to simultaneously maintain alignment between the months and the seasons and synchronise months with the Moon--it is thus deemed a "luni-solar calendar". In addition, THERE ARE CONSTRAINTS ON WHICH DAYS OF THE WEEK ON WHICH A YEAR CAN BEGIN and to shift otherwise required extra days to prior years to keep the length of the year within the prescribed bounds. This isn't easy, and the computations required are correspondingly intricate."

To me, this means that the modern Hebrew Calendar is being extrapolated backwards. THAT GIVES FALSE DATES in the days of Christ, when Tishri 1 was set when the Constellation Virgo was clothed by the Sun and the New Crescent Moon was seen under her feet. In those days, no consideration was made about which day of the week it had to fall. Those rules were added some time after 70 AD.

YourSky

Below is some of the information I found about YourSky. Both fourmilab's Home Planet and YourSky are considered very good programs.

In "COMPUTERS IN ASTRONOMY (http://www.cis.udel.edu/~case/shedrick01nov.html), Don Shedrick said, "Home Planet is a Microsoft Windows application that calculates for any time or location the position of the Earth, Sun, Moon, planets, asteroids, comets, and Earth satellites with high accuracy and provides many features, including the following capabilities...

"Believe it or not, all this capability is completely free, and I highly recommend it. The smaller star data base version is posted on the ASTRO BBS. In addition to this, a larger data base version to Magnitude 10 and more info can be obtained from the web at: http://www.fourmilab.ch/homeplanet/homeplanet.html

"Your Sky is a web based version of Home Planet requiring no download of software to your PC, and has most of the planetarium features of Home Planet. Your Sky is much easier than Home Planet for printing of star charts after you set them up just like you want. It is on the web at:http://www.fourmilab.ch/yoursky/"

At Jet Propulsion Laboratory's web site (http://yoursky.jpl.nasa.gov), it said, "Project Title: YourSky Custom Mosaic Server - "Custom image mosaics from DPOSS or 2MASS "yourSky is an internet front end to the National Virtual Observatory HIGH PERFORMANCE custom sky mosaicking code. It represents an effort to bring these HIGH PERFORMANCE computing resources to the scientist's desktop. The yourSky system accepts custom mosaic requests from any client that has access to a web browser such as Netscape or Internet Explorer."

ASTRONOMY - FREE SOFTWARE (http://freeware.intrastar.net/planetarium.htm)
"HOME PLANET - A superb earth and sky simulator. (7.2MB)"

It seems obvious that YourSky's September 4, 5 BC, is a date that can be trusted. The Calendar Converter date of September 2, 5 BC for Tishri 1 is wrong, because the modern Hebrew Calendar is different from the calendar used in Jesus' day.

I decided to see how the information Josephus gave us looked on a chart of the years of Herod the Great's reign. Quotes from Josephus follow the chart. All the quotes agree with the chart. Since the information interlocks with itself in different ways, it seems correct.

THE YEARS OF HEROD THE GREAT'S LIFE AND REIGN

73 BC - 1st year of Herod's life - died 4 BC when 70 years old 46 BC - Julian Calendar began
40 BC (Hebrew 3722) (4th yr of the 184th Olympiad) Mark Antony named Herod king of Judah 37 yrs before Herod died in 4 BC
39 BC (3723) - War against Antigonius
38 BC (3724) - War against Antigonius

37 BC (3725) - Herod king by Octavian decree - 1st of Herod's 34 yrs after Antigonius slain (a Sabbatic Year, according to Josephus, a Pharisee priest) This was a surprise to me, 3725 does not divide evenly by7
36 BC (3726) - 2nd year of Herod's reign (4th yr of the 185th Olympiad)
35 BC (3727) - 3rd
34 BC (3728) - 4th
33 BC (3729) - 5th
32 BC (3730) - 6th
31 BC (3731) - 7th - the big earthquake at the Spring Equinox - the Battle of Actium, September 2, 31 BC
30 BC (3732) - 8th (Sabbatic Year)
29 BC (3733) - 9th
28 BC (3734) - 10th - Herod introduced the quinquennial games, like the Olympic games.
27 BC (3735) - 11th
26 BC (3736) - 12th
25 BC (3737) - 13th
24 BC (3738) - 14th
23 BC (3739) - 15th (Sabbatic Year)
22 BC (3740) - 16th
21 BC (3742) - 17th - Caesar made Herod procurator of all Syria in the 10th year after 1st games at Actium
20 BC (3742) - 18th - Herod began to build the temple
19 BC (3743) - 19th
18 BC (3744) - 20th
17 BC (3745) - 21st
16 BC (3746) - 22nd (Sabbatic Year)
15 BC (3747) - 23rd
14 BC (3748) - 24th
13 BC (3749) - 25th
12 BC (3750) - 26th
11 BC (3751) - 27th
10 BC (3752) - 28th
9 BC (3753) - 29th (Sabbatic Year)
8 BC (3754) - 30th
7 BC (3755) - 31st
6 BC (3756) - 32nd
5 BC (3757) - 33rd - Jesus born Tishri 1, 3757 (Sept 4, 5 BC, according to the sign seen in YourSky)
4 BC (3758) - 34th (AUC 750) - Herod died between Adar 13, Esther's Fast, and Nisan 15, which Josephus called "Passover", and Unleavened Bread

3 BC (3759)
2 BC (3760) (Sabbatic Year)
1 BC (3761)
1 AD
2 AD
3 AD
4 AD
5 AD
6 AD - (Sabbatic Year) 37th year since Battle of Actium, when the taxings (on Sept 2, anniversary of Actium) concluded

JOSEPHUS

Antiquities. XV. I. 2: "Herod, now he had got Jerusalem under his power...SABBATIC YEAR, which was still going on, and forced the country to lie still uncultivated...Anthony had received Antigonus as his captive...resolved to behead him at Antioch".

Ant, 14:14:5: "Antony also feasted Herod the first day of his reign. And thus did this man receive the kingdom, having obtained it ON THE HUNDRED AND EIGHTY-FOURTH OLYMPIAD, when Caius Domitius Calvinus was consul the second time and Caius Asinius Pollio [the first time]."

Wars I. XIX. 3: "IN THE SEVENTH YEAR OF HIS REIGN, WHEN THE WAR ABOUT ACTIUM WAS AT THE HEIGHT, AT THE BEGINNING OF THE SPRING.THE EARTH WAS SHAKEN and destroyed an immense number of cattle, and THIRTY THOUSAND MEN".

Wars I. I., translator Whiston's note: "This seventh year of the reign of Herod, with the great earthquake in the beginning of the same spring, which are here fully implied to be not much before the fight at Actium, and which is known to have been in the beginning of September, IN THE 31ST YEAR BEFORE THE CHRISTIAN ERA, determines the chronology of Josephus as to the reign of Herod--viz., that he began in the year 37."

Wars I.XX. 2, 4: After the Battle of Actium, "Caesar replied to him (Herod) thus:--"Nay, thou shalt not only be in safety, but shalt be a king, and that more firmly than thou wast before...(After the) "first games at Actium, he added to his (Herod's) kingdom...(Caesar) also made him a procurator of all Syria, and this of the TENTH YEAR AFTERWARD".

Ant.XV. XI. 1,5-7: "Herod, in the EIGHTEENTH YEAR (i.e., 20 BC) of his reign, and after the acts already mentioned, undertook a very great work, that is, TO BUILD OF HIMSELF THE TEMPLE OF GOD, and make it larger in compass...he took care of the cloisters and the outer enclosures; and these he built in eight years. But THE TEMPLE ITSELF WAS BUILT BY THE PRIESTS IN A YEAR AND SIX MONTHS...It is also reported, that during the time that the temple was building, IT DID NOT RAIN IN THE DAY TIME, but that the showers fell in the nights, so that the work was not hindered".

Ant. XVIII. I. II: "When Cyrenius had now disposed of Archelaus's money, and when the taxings were come to a conclusion, which were made in THE THIRTY-SEVENTH YEAR (6 AD) of Caesar's vistory over Antony at Actium".

Ant. XVII. vi. 4: "Now Now it happened, that during the time of the high priesthood of this Matthias, there was another person made high priest for a single day, that very day which the Jews observe as A FAST (i.e., Esther's Fast, Nisan 13). The occasion was this:--This Matthias the high priest, ON THE NIGHT BEFORE THAT DAY WHEN THE FAST WAS TO BE CELEBRATED, seemed, in a dream, to have conversation with his wife; and because he could not officiate himself on that account, Joseph, the son of Ellemus, his kinsman, assisted him in that sacred office. But Herod deprived this Matthias of the high priesthood, and burnt the other Matthias, who had raised the sedition (i.e., over the eagle Herod placed at the temple), with his companions, alive. AND THAT VEY NIGHT THERE WAS AN ECLIPSE OF THE MOON." (i.e., March 13, 4 BC).

Ant., XVII, viii, 1: Herod "died, the fifth day after he had caused Antipater to be slain; having reigned, since he had procured Antigonus to be slain, thirty-four years; but since he had been declared king by the Romans, thirty-seven."

Wars. I. 33. 8: "So Herod, having survived the slaughter of his son five days, died, having reigned THIRTY FOUR YEARS, since he had caused Antigonus to be slain, and obtained his kingdom; but THIRTY-SEVEN YEARS SINCE HE HAD BEEN MADE KING by the Romans."

IT WAS JUST A SHORT TIME BETWEEN HEROD'S DEATH AND PASSOVER ("UNLEAVENED BREAD")

I think Jesus was born as the former rain (Hosea 6:3) on Tishri 1, 3757. Both the autumn and the following spring feasts took place in that same Hebrew year, which was a Leap Year having 385 days. From Veadar 13, 3757, Esther's Feast, to Nisan 15, Unleavened Bread, which Josephus called Passover, was 31 days.

Wars. II. I. 1,3: "Now the necessity which Archelaus was under of taking a journey to Rome was the occasion of new disturbances; for when he had mourned for his father seven says, and had given a very expensive funeral feast...at the FEAST OF UNLEAVENED BREAD, WHICH WAS NOW AT HAND, AND IS BY THE JEWS CALLED THE PASSOVER".

Archelaus went to Rome to secure his kingship between Passover and Pentecost.

Wars II. II. 2: "Archelaus was sailed to Rome".

Wars III. 1: "Now when that feast, which was observed after seven weeks, and which the Jews called Pentecost (i.e., the 50th day) was at hand, its name being taken from the number of the days [after the Passover,] the people got together..."

Herod died in the same Hebrew year that Jesus was born - 3757. It was a Leap Year with 385 days.
Tishri 1 was Sept. 4, 5 BC
Cheshvan 1 was Oct. 4, 5 BC
Kislev 1 was Nov 3, 5 BC
Teveth 1 was Dec 3, 5 BC
Shevat 1 was Jan 1, 4 BC
Adar I was Jan 31, 4 BC
Veadar 1 was Mar 2, 4 BC
Veadar 13 (Esther's Fast) was March 13, 4 BC, the very night of the eclipse
Nisan 1 was Mar 31, 4 BC
Nisan 15 (the Feast of Unleavened Bread that Josephus called the Passover) was Apr 14, 4 BC
(From Esther's Fast to the Feast of Unleavened Bread called the Passover was 31 days, Veadar has 29 days.)
Herod died between March 13 and April 14.

Josephus: Ant. XVII. VI. 4 says, "...THAT VERY DAY which the Jews observe as a FAST (Esther's Fast)...(Herod) burnt the other Matthias, who had raised the sedition (over the eagle Herod put at the temple), with his companions, alive. And THAT VERY NIGHT THERE WAS AN ECLIPSE OF THE MOON."

Josephus, Ant. 14:15:14 says, "This destruction befell the city of Jerusalem when Marcus Agrippa and Canninius Gallus were consuls of Rome, on the hundred and eighty-fifth olympiad (the 185th olympiad was from 39-36 BC), on the third month, on the solemnity of the fast..." We can be sure that Josephus thought of Esther's Fast as the fast of the third month. The two consuls Josephus mentioned were in office in the year 40 BC. They werealso in office in 37 BC. That shows when Herod finally took over Jerusalem.

Fred Espenak, at NASA, lists the Lunar Eclipse as March 13, 4 BC. The correlation is perfect. YourSky shows that March 13, 4 BC was the day of the Full Moon in Virgo. That is necessary for there to be a Lunar Eclipse.

The calendar programs have a flaw in them, because they extrapolate the modern calendar rules back to those days. That won't work, because in those days, they set Tishri 1 by sighting the New Crescent Moon. I'll go by the astronomy programs.

Ernest L. Martin, "The Star that Astonished the World," p. 127, said, "the Jews were accustomed to a thirty day mourning time called a Sheloshim, Herod simply ordered that the procession to Jerusalem (for a brief lying in state) and then to the Herodian for burial would occupy the whole of that required thirty day mourning perion." Ibid, p. 130: "If the king, however, lay in state in the vicinity of Jerusalem for a period of time, additional days would have to be given to the interval. Since to reach the Herodian from Jericho in this fashion took at least four weeks (which was designed by Herod to occupy the whole of the required thirty day mourning period known as the Seloshim), then Herod was buried eight weeks away from the eclipse if we allow the bear minimum of time for these things to be accomplished."

Ibid, p. 131: "And with royal Jewish funerals the official time of mourning for the general public was thirty days (called a

sheloshim) and this was followed by a further seven days mourning period for the family of Herod. While the Roman time of mourning was for ONLY NINE DAYS (with Augustus' procession and funeral rites taking just over THREE WEEKS [i.e., 21 days]), Herod's funeral ceremonies lasted much longer to accord with biblical and Jewish mourning customs."

Ibid., p 135: "If one were conservative in estimating the interval of time between the lunar eclipse (which occurred just after the two rabbis were executed) and the arrival of the Springtime Passover, one has to allow (at a bare minimum) TEN WEEKS."

Ibid., 138: "In the last chapter it was shown how impossible it is to squeeze the events mentioned by Josephus from his lunar eclipse to the next Passover into a twenty-nine day period that the March 13, 4 B.C.E. eclipse demands."

Ten weeks won't wash. Archelaus only mourned his father 7 days. Josephus Ant. XVII. VIII. 4 says, "Now Archelaus paid him so much respect, as to continue his mourning till the seventh day; for so many days are appointed for it by the law of our fathers; and when he had given a treat to the multitude, and LEFT OFF HIS MOURNING, he went up into the temple...and took his seat, in a throne made of gold". He left for Rome to get his kingship confirmed between Unleavened Bread and Pentecost.

I am changing my date for Jesus' birth back to Sept. 4, 5 BC, when the sign of Rev. 12:1-5 was perfect. It is the Calendar Converter that can't be trusted. I'll go by YourSky. Agape

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