Pro and Con 128, Uploaded 6-18-98
Incoming Email SNOW, SNOW, SNOW
Just saw on CNN news today JUNE 17th, where Salt Lake City, Utah got a FOOT of snow TODAY! Can You believe ??? And here it is the middle of JUNE!!!!! :-)
My reply Thanks. Boy, I'd never know these things if you didn't let me know. Not only do I not watch TV much (mainly watch ice skating), we do not have cable TV.
Note: Prov. 25:13 mentions, "the cold of snow in the time of harvest." Maybe it applies to these days. The middle of June is late for snow.
Incoming Email My money is on Daniel10:12. "Do not be afraid, Daniel. Since the first day that you set your mind to gain understanding and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard, and I have come in response to them. But the prince of the Persian kingdom resisted me twenty-one days"
I had not thought of it with respect to the subject at hand, but who is the prince of the Persian kingdom? (i.e., Babylon)? Does that ever tie in with the black ravan Noah sent out who flew to and fro over the Earth. You just may have found a good clue. Does Satan's sifting us as wheat take 21 days? We'll find out soon.
Incoming Email Spine tingling response. FWD: From: Jim Bramlett
About an hour ago I faxed to a couple of friends (not on the Internet) today's e-mail to you titled "Judgment/Tribulation?"
I just received a faxed reply back from friend Dr. Joe Horvath in Montana with an absolutely spin-tingling story. Brace yourself.
Yesterday he was with a realtor helping him find a new home in another community. The realtor said that her grandaughter, Courtney, 14 years old, recently organized a Bible study in her school. Initially there were six students, but now there are 26 attending regularly. Courtney told her grandmother that a few days ago they were in prayer after studying the Word when suddenly she was taken out of her body and hovered above the prayer group. As she looked down, the words came to her: "THE RAPTURE IS CLOSER THAN YOU THINK." She then slowly returned to the floor and her body.
But that's not all! She shared the experience with a few others, and one boy stated that a few days earlier he had had the exact same experience. The same thing had happened to him! And he heard the exact same words: "THE RAPTURE IS CLOSER THAN YOU THINK."
Hello! Do you get it? I think we have a word from the Lord.
Incoming Email All praise to God our Father and His Son our Redeemer for your tireless work. Hope sure springs eternal in you....get it, "spring(s) eternal(ity)"! Really though, thank you so very much for your work....I check your web page out everyday. What a joy it is to see new PC's.
We're just coming off a Billy Graham Crusade in our area...a "Celebration" presented by Dr. Ralph Bell, where 1017 individuals came to know Christ as their Savior....what a thrill this past week has been. So great to see people receive Jesus and secure their eternal destiny. However, like most of your readers, I was hoping to be in eternity with you.
I was supposed to sing in a wedding on May 30 and all I could envision was me being changed in a twinkling of an eye....receiving my glorified body while singing the Wedding Song, but something very strange happened. On Tuesday before the wedding, I got an email from the bride that the wedding was off. I couldn't believe it! I was dumbfounded. First time in my 37 years I ever heard of a wedding being called off. The it hit me like a ton of bricks. I knew then that the rapture "was off" for May 31st. To me it was a clear signal that a "delay" would be taking place.
I've been so encourgaged by your faithfullness to your studies and readers, because now, the message of faithfullness has been prevalent in my life the past few weeks. I believe as you do that we are now in a testing period. Our Lord tarries now to test our faithfullness. During the 5 days of the Crusade, we had straight rain....somewhat unusual for this area. Many came to know Christ. Those faithful to the call of the Holy Spirit braving damp rainy weather have their destinys secure, unlike the absent (unfaithful).
Our Lord is faithful, Holy and just. Because of your example....I will try even harder to be faithful to the way, the truth and the life. God Bless.
My reply We would have to have God's perspective to understand all that is going on now, but know that it is all for the best.
My reply Your work evident in rapture two?
Keep up the excellent work! I feel as if sometimes when I check your web site, I am getting my daily bread....
In doing what I am supposed to do, I have been comparing your information and the information given to you to the light of scripture. I have been praying that if the information presented to me false, that the Holy Spirit would make it evident to me through scripture. I enjoy reading the P&C's to see the different points of view people have. The result of my prayers, I think have been answered in a way different than I expected.
Driving home from work today, I was thinking about the rain and flooding that we are getting here in New England and had to laugh at the scripture - Mat. 24:37 "As it was in the days of Noah,..." Then I thought about the second rapture, Luke 17:28, "It was the same in the days of Lot." It left me wondering. I just finished reading the story of Sodom and Gomorrah. Here is what I found interesting:
Lot was sitting in the gateway of the city and when he saw the angles, he got up to meet them. Does this strike you as funny? How did Lot know what was going on? How did he know that these two men were angles? I do not think it was chance that he happened to be sitting there the moment that the angles showed up - he was waiting for them! If you read further you will see that the sinners in Sodom and Gomorrah were also interested in these two men (angles). Now why would a crowd gather just to get at these two men? They didn't announce their presence to the whole city -did they? It appears to me that the crowd had some prior knowledge to some event that is supposed to happen that particular night and it also had something to do with Lot, why else would they single him and his visitors out? You can't tell me that two people can walk into a city and make that kind of impression unless they were expected!
Do you see it?
Now with this as a representation of the second rapture, it appears that there will be a group of people (like Lot) that are waiting at the gate and also a group of unbelievers anticipating something to happen! This means that they will have some sort of warning!
Why would nonbelievers be interested in an event such as this?
Thought #1. If the first rapture didn't occur then non believers would care less about the second - it appears that their disbelief is growing stronger. Do you think that they would have any interest after multiple years of waiting? I doubt it.
Thought #2. If the first rapture does occur then I believe that the pending second rapture will definitely keep some interest and this fits the Lot scenario!
It appears to me that your knowledge of two raptures is correct!
Thank you for all your hard work!
Incoming Email The seventh trumpet of Rev. is sounded by an angel (Rev. 8:2). The trumpet for Rapture I is "the trump of God" (I Thess. 4:16). It is the first trump. The trumpet for Rapture II is "the last trump" (I Cor. 15:52).
Types of these two trumpets are found in Nu. 10:2-4: "Make thee two trumpets of silver...that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. And when they shall blow with them (both), ALL the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And if thy blow but with one trumpet, then the princes, which are heads of the thousands of Israel (i.e., the elders, 12 patriarchs and 12 apostles), shall gather themselves unto thee."
If, as you think, the seventh trumpet judgment was the call for the saints, the saints would have to go through the Day of God's Wrath. Surely you know that is not true.
Incoming EmailI have been following all the Pros and Cons on your web sight. We in this household too have been looking for the Lord's return. Sometiimes I think I look so forward to it because I don't want to taste death. The Rapture would be an easy way to avoid death and tribulation hardships. I have always preferred the easy way out. I am now asking myself if I can truly say, "not my will, but thine be done." Is it selfish of me to want the Rapture so that I can have the easy way out of the hardships in this world, and not have to face a physical death instead of more time to bring people into the Kingdom of God? You have done so much study. Please tell me what you have concluded concerning praying in tongues. I hear a lot about it. And please tell me what kind of church you think would be best to attend to grow in Christ. (What denomination?) If the Lord tarries, I want to be where I will grow and become more like Jesus. Thankyou
My replyDidn't Jesus die so we would not have to? Even those asleep in Jesus did not die, they just came out of their earthly physical bodies. Man is body, soul, and spirit. If a believer dies, he is absent from the body and present with the Lord. Jesus has also promised that there is a generation that will not have to die. We are living in those days. We are to believe his promises and look for his appearing. This world is getting so evil, why wouldn't we want to get out of here since he has given us that chance. I, for one, am working as hard as I can go to win the race and get the prize of the high calling of God at the Rapture. I do not want to be here during the Tribulation. It will be the worst seven years since Adam was put on Earth, nothing to look forward to.
Concerning tongues. God uses them when he deems it necessary to get the information about the way of salvation to someone and that is either the only way or the best way to do it. There may be other instances that he uses them, but it is for his own reasons. I told the Lord that if he wanted me to speak in tongues, that was ok, and if he didn't want me to speak in tongues, that was ok. I'd leave it up to him. I have never spoken in tongues. My kids did, after going to Melodyland in Anaheim, CA, but it made them selfish, looking for their own emotional high instead of caring about bringing others to Christ. They decided it was not right for them. Their group that was working so effectively to bring others to Christ started to fall apart. When they stopped, they worked together fine again.
I like Baptists or any church that opens the Bible and studies straight from the Word. I have attended several non-denominational churches that were great too. If it is in the Bible, you know that you can believe it. Otherwise, you have to compare everything with Scripture to see if it is true or not. You can save yourself that trouble if they study right from the scriptures in the first place.
Incoming EmailIn my dream, we were in another country, like in India or somewhere, working on some mission compound, orphanage-type place. We were waiting for "the call" there, too. Somehow, all around the world, it was expected to be very soon.
During the night, the call came, and we were left behind.
Very few people went.
The very old, frail, & the most godly people went. It was a bit surprising, who went & who didn't. The leader of our ministry didn't go. We didn't go. A lot of children didn't go.
We came out in the morning, knowing we didn't go but that a few people had. They had just disappeared. We all knew what had happened. But something had happened in us, too. The ones of us who were Christians, who had been left behind, knew that we had been left behind because we weren't ready. We also knew that It was for our greater good for eternity that we stay. A purifying was already beginning. And we all were called to minister during the time that was left.
No one wanted to speak to each other. No one even wanted to look at each other in the eye. But I found that my communication with the Holy Spirit of God was greatly enhanced. Somehow I knew that I hadn't been left behind as a punishment, even though it felt like it. (It was a judgement of some sorts, that much was obvious.) But now, all of us had a much deeper perspective. We knew things from God that we didn't know before. We worked together more unselfishly. There was a lot to do. Dark times ahead, we knew. A lot could go unsaid, & we were all on the quiet side, now.
As time passed, we found that perspectives were unalterably changed. For some, it meant buying a few things of better quality, reflecting a new understanding. For others, it meant buying more things of simpler style, in order to share it with the multitudes. God was using both to minister to His people, and He was calling us all to do it.
In my dream, the day after I woke up & some of the people were gone, I thought, "The lady at the garage sale yesterday said that some people believe there would be multiple raptures. Maybe she was right."
And in my dream, my spirit knew it was so.
Incoming Email Mrs. Agee, my dear sister in Christ, I want to thank you for all of your efforts, studing, writing and helping all of "us" understand better of what is to come. As you and your family, my family and I are watching and ready to be accounted for within a "twinkle of the eye". If the Rapture, for some reason is delayed a bit, I will still look forward to the continued work you will be doing, and my faith in His coming will be that much stronger.. As it grows everyday. This would just allow more time, to help those who are in need and are seeking Christ, but do not know where to start. I do hope the later is not going to happen, but it is a win-win situation no matter how I(we) view this.
God Bless you for all your hard work and dedication. In His love
Incoming Email Can you help me out?... I know that Israel is symbolized by a "Fig Tree" in the Bible. How did Bible interpreters come to the conclusion that a "Fig Tree" represents Israel?
My reply Here are three scriptures that show that Israel is the fig tree:
Joel 1:6,7: "For a nation is come up upon MY LAND...He that laid my vine waste, and barked MY FIG TREE.
Hos. 9:10: "I found ISRAEL like grapes in the wilderness; I saw your fathers as the firstripe in the FIG TREE.
Ezek. 36:8: "But ye, O mountains of ISRAEL, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel."
Incoming Email I want to interject a quick question if I may... In reading your Pro and Con postings, a couple of times you have mentioned being dressed in linen - fine white linen - on the day of the rapture. Do you mean this literally or do you mean that we are to be 'dressed in linen' symbolically as in washed in the blood of the Lamb (being a believer and having asked forgiveness of sins)?
My wife and myself are Christians, but we fall far short of perfection by any standard. I hope at least that our little infant son will be taken even if my wife and I aren't, given that he is the child of believers and has yet to utter any word (or commit even one sin?). What are your thoughts on this?
Thank you so much and God bless
My reply We are to be 'dressed in linen' symbolically, as in washed in the blood of the Lamb (being a believer and having asked forgiveness of sins). We should forgive others that we may be forgiven too. Get everything out of the way.
The "fine linen clean and white" in Rev. 19:8 is literally the righteousnesses of saints. This includes Christ's righteousness that is imparted to us plus our righteous acts done while filled with His Holy Spirit."
Remember that Jeremiah was raised up out of the pit with cords (i.e., Christ's righteousness) and "rotten rags." Our righteousnesses are as "filthy rags" compared to His. By His righteousness, we can be saved. By our righteous acts when filled with the Holy Spirit, we can earn rewards on top of Salvation.
Jeremiah's being pulled up out of the pit ties in with the information that people will see the Rapture, just as Elias saw Elijah raptured. Psalm 40:1-3 says, "I WAITED patiently for the LORD; and he inclined (bent down) unto me, and heard my cry. He brought me up also out of an horrible pit (as Jeremiah was taken up out of a pit), out of the miry clay (our bodies of clay), and set my feet upon a rock (Heaven), and established by goings. And the hath put a new song (sung after the Rapture in Revelation 5:9) in my mouth, even praise unto our God: MANY SHALL SEE IT, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD."
Incoming Email I have just started reading your web pages, sounds interesting, a friend of mine sent me your link after telling her, at first I was convinced there was a rapture, then tribulation, now I was convinced we would have to go through the great tribulation, now here I am at your web page, wondering , it is so confusing, I am 42 and have only been born again for 2 years, I was not brought up in a religious or Godly home, although I would read the book of Revelation on my own, it always fascinated me somehow, but at the time, I really wasn't into learning about God, Again after I was born again, the book of Revelation and prophesy fascinated me and held a very strong hold in my spirit, I was always and am still convinced that we could know the time of his return. I then studied with the seventh day adventist church for awhile, and became convinced that the rapture was after great tribulation, now I am becoming weary from the confusion, I have been praying for discernment for 2 years now, and only to KNOW his truth, not man's. I had a dream last year that I know was from God, I was outside and from a great depth in the sky, streamed down gold glitter dust, I said oh how beautiful, it fell into a little pile at my feet and then when I bent down to pick it up, I had in my hands clear little plastic pieces, rectangular in shape, and felt such disappointment. The depth at which I saw the gold falling from was awesome, and is burned into my memory like it just happened. I don't know why I am sharing this with you, I haven't thought about the dream for awhile, but felt I needed to share it with you, maybe you will know why. Anyway, may God Bless you, and I hope you are right, I can barely wait to get out of here. Even so, Lord, come quickly.
" so you will be chosen as one of the group, the Bride of Christ, that will go to Heaven in the first Rapture." So what if you are not chosen to go in the first rapture, do you have an article on what the Christians will be doing or called to do, during this time, how will these Christians feel after being left behind? What do you think of the y2k issue and what is God's plan in this? I know you are probably a really busy person, but if you find the time to share your thoughts on this, I would be very interested in hearing your views, I commend you for your 36 years of study in God's word, I pray that I find a friend in my area that has done as much study to help disciple me, I feel like a lost two year old, I am having trouble trusting in any church, I feel there are just too many lies and misleading people out there in the churches, I don't trust them, and am having a hard time finding Christ. Thanks for your time and listening
My reply I don't know about the dream, but maybe I can help you with understanding the Raptures. The book of Revelation is written as if the Rapture is at hand. It is "at hand" in 1:3 and 22:10, and Jesus signs off with, "Surely I come quickly." He comes "quickly" at the Rapture (2:5). This is why we are "Blessed...that keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand" (1:3).
"Now all these things happened unto them (Israel) for ensamples: and they are written for OUR admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (lie., ages) are come." What happened to Israel is to help us understand prophecy, and The Revelation is written especially for us.
After being caught up to Heaven and seeing Jesus surrounded by the churches in the Preview, John was told in Rev. 1:19, "Write the things which thou hast seen (things before the Rapture), and the things which are (at the time of the Rapture), and the things which shall be hereafter (after the Rapture)."
The Pre-Trib Rapture is in 4:1: "a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, COME UP HITHER, and I will shew thee things which must be HEREAFTER" (i.e., after the Rapture). All the prophecies past this point apply to the time after the Pre-Trib Rapture.
This Rapture is when the first "trump of God" (not sounded by angels as in the seven trumpet judgments) is heard and "the dead in Christ shall rise first; Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (I Thess. 4:16,17).
There are two trumpets "for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps...if they blow but with one trumpet, then the princes, which are heads of the thousands of Israel, shall gather themselves unto thee" (Nu. 10:3,4). These princes are the elders in Rev. 4. They are the patriarchs of the 12 tribes and the 12 apostles.
At "the last trump" (I Cor. 15:52), the Tribulation saints are caught up to Heaven in the Pre-Wrath Rapture. We see them in Heaven in Rev. 7:14,15: "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple."
Now look what comes between the accounts of the two Raptures, Revelation, chapter six. It starts with the beginning of the Tribulation and ends with "the great day of his wrath is come." The Tribulation saints are caught up on that day, between the breaking of the sixth seal of 6:12 and the seventh seal of 8:1, out of which the seven trumpet judgments come. Those are sounded by angels after the Tribulation saints are caught up to Heaven.
The Judgment Seat of Christ is that day. All the saints in Heaven receive their rewards for their belief. All the nonbelievers on Earth get their just rewards for their unbelief.
Rev. 11:18 explains: "And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; AND SHOULDEST DESTROY THEM WHICH DESTROY THE EARTH."
> So what if you are not chosen
> to go in the first rapture, do you have an article on what the
> Christians will be doing or called to do, during this time, how will
> these Christians feel after being left behind?
Make sure that you have confessed all known sins and the Lord will cleanse you of all unrighteousness (I John 1:9). Forgive others so you can be forgiven. You do not want to be left behind. There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. They will have to wash their robes in the blood of the Lamb then. How much better to do it now.
The Tribulation will be the worst seven years since Adam was put on Earth. There will be many martyrs. Believers can't take the Mark of the Beast, so they cannot buy or sell. That hits some people hard when they realize that they cannot get the medicine they need to stay alive.
At noon on the Day of God's Wrath, two pieces of an asteroid will strike Earth and destroy civilization as we know it. The "great mountain burning with fire" (8:8) impacts the Mediterranean Sea. Gaza and the cities of the seacoast are destroyed (Zeph. 24-6). The "great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp" (8:10) destroys Babylon on the Euphrates River (Rev. 18:21).
> What do you think of the y2k issue
I think it will cause chaos, and soon. We had a charge slip not be accepted by the terminal because the expiration date ended in 00.
> what is God's plan in this?
He in in complete control, working out the plan he made before the world began.
As for believing what pastors say in churches. They are human. Check out everything with the Scripture, the only rock-hard truth we have. However, no one person or church is perfect. Pick out one that studies from the Bible and go to worship the Lord, even if you cannot agree on every point. I have liked Baptist and several non-denominational churches best. I look for people carrying Bibles to church and opening them to study from them during the sermon. You know right away if what you are being told is right or not when you see what the Scripture says.
Don't trust a church. Trust Christ. Be sure you have prayed and asked him to be your Savior. He loves you and will help you understand.
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