Pro and Con 129, Uploaded 6-18-98

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Snow. I foot of snow in Northern Utah yesterday!! (June 17). Love

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you wrote:
> The Rapture does not seem to be such an new thing. Between 383 and 627 AD,
> Pseudo-Ephraem, in a just-under-1500-word sermon (divided into ten sections and
> preserved for us in 4 Latin manuscripts)

Could you cite some kind of bibliographical source for this info, I just searched the Apolstolic Fathers and couldn't find it. Thanks.

My reply

In Pseudo-Ephraem's sermon "On the Last Times, the Antichrist, and the End of the World" he said in Section 1, "Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and prepare ourselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ, so that he may draw us from the confusion, which overwhelms all the world?...For all the saints and elect of God are gathered together before the tribulation, which is to come, and are taken to the Lord, in order that they may not see at any time the confusion which overwhelms the world because of our sins."

Grant Jeffrey found this in Paul J. Alexander's "The Byzantine Apocalyptic Tradition" (Berkeley: Univ. of CA Press, 1985, p. 210).

The text of the sermon is in Thomas Ice's "Pre-Trib Perspectives," Vol. II, No. 2, Apr., 1995.

His reply

Thank you very much for the reference, that is one of the first profitable things I have recieved from this list! (a forum).

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I loved your site! Came across it today and found it very refreshing. I too believe that the rapture is coming very soon. I tend to believe that it will occur at the Feast of Trumpets (Sept.22). Below are some of the resons why. I copied this from
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/2175/heb_root.html#Heritage

The last trump is associated with and is blown on Rosh HaShanah. (Rosh HaShanah will be discussed in the next chapter.) The biblical name for Rosh HaShanah is Yom Teruah, which in Hebrew means "the day of the awakening blast." This trump (shofar) is mentioned by the apostle Paul (Rav Sha'ul) in First Corinthians 15:51-53. Because the last trump is only blown on Rosh HaShanah and because the apostle Paul (Rav Sha'ul) specifically mentions that the rapture (natzal) of the believers in Yeshua the Messiah will take place at the last trump, the apostle Paul (Rav Sha'ul) was giving a clear understanding that the rapture of the believers in Messiah will happen on a Rosh HaShanah.

One of the reasons for blowing the shofar is to proclaim the resurrection of the dead. In addition, the thirteenth principle of the Jewish faith is belief in the resurrection of the dead. The resurrection of the dead will take place on Rosh HaShanah (Talmud, Rosh HaShanah l6b). In First Corinthians 15:52, the apostle Paul (Rav Sha'ul) tells us that the resurrection of the dead will be "at the last trump."

Yet another name for Rosh HaShanah is Yom HaKeseh, "The Day of the Hiding" or "the Hidden Day." The term keseh or keceh is derived from the Hebrew root kacah, which means to "conceal, cover, or hide." Every day during the month of Elul, a trumpet is blown to warn the people to turn back to G-d, except for the thirtieth day of Elul, the day preceding Rosh HaShanah. On that day the trumpet is not blown, and is therefore silent. This is because much about Rosh HaShanah is concealed and shrouded in mystery. The mystical aspect of Rosh HaShanah is indicated in Scripture: "Sound the shofar on the New Moon, in concealment of the day of our festival" (Psalm [Tehillim] 81:3). Satan, the accuser, is not to be given notice about the arrival of Rosh HaShanah, the Day of Judgment. Rosh HaShanah is called Yom HaKeeh, or the Day of the Hiding, because it was hidden from satan (Ha satan), the adversary. The Bible says that satan comes to rob and to steal (John [Yochanan] 10:10, and to confuse (1 Corinthians 14:33). Because it is the Day of Judgment, it is symbolically hidden from satan (satan did not know and understand the plan of the cross [tree], First Corinthians 2:7-8). This was hidden from him as well. Believers never said when the day of Rosh HaShanah was; they simply said, "Of that day and hour no one knows, only the Father."

One of the reasons most often given to disclaim that the resurrection of the dead and the catching away of the believers is on Rosh HaShanah is the statement given by Yeshua in Matthew (Mattityahu) 24:36, as it is written, "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but My Father only." Because Rosh HaShanah was understood to be the hidden day, this statement by Yeshua is actually an idiom for Rosh Hashanah. Thus it should be given as proof that He was speaking of Rosh HaShanah because Rosh HaShanah is the only day in the whole year that was referred to as the hidden day or the day that no man knew.

(1 Cor 15:51) Behold, I show you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
(1 Cor 15:52) In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
(1 Cor 15:53) For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Would love to hear from you on this if it is possible. See you in the Clouds!

My reply

There is a Rapture on Rosh HaShannah, but it is (I think) the Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Tribulation saints.

I downloaded this from the Internet. Jewish sages say that:
> As to the trumps the Feasts are called by the names
> Pentecost= First trump
> RoshHaShanah=LAst trump
> Atonement= Great trump

This fits the First Rapture on Pentecost, the second on the Feast of Trumpets and God's acceptance of the remnant of Israel on the following Day of Atonement, doesn't it. Let's just be ready...

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Noah & Lot
One of your notes on P&C 128 hit me with this thought! Two of the biggest problems we are having right now all over the world are with FLOODS and FIRE! As in Noah and Lot! The people of Noah's day were destroyed with aFLOOD and those of Lot's day, with FIRE! Coincidence? I doubt it! I have to admire you! You are doing a wonderful job of keeping up with all your notes! They are like a "refreshing drink of cool water"in an age of scorching heat! The note about the teens' bible study where they were told "the Rapture is sooner than you think" - twice....very interesting....!

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Y2K and God's Timing, from Mary Ames
This is in regards to Y2K. I consider myself an expert on the matter. I won't go into my background, but suffice it to say, I do know what I am talking about. About a year ago, I started going to the Christian community with the message that Y2K is indeed a serious, serious problem that will cause unimaginable chaos. I was met with a great deal of contempt. I cannot believe the amount of denial I have met especially as I am armed with so many facts and figures. Just recently some of the big names in the Christian community have started talking about it with regards to Bible Prophecy.

As I began to learn how absolutely terrible this was going to be, I realized it had to be part of God's plan for the end times. I prayed that He might reveal a bit of what His plans were. At the same time, He put on my heart the burden of writing my little booklet "Don't Blame Me If You Go TO Hell!!!" (proving the Gospel through scientific, deductive reasoning, www.turningpointranch.org, the book is on-line now). I felt such an incredible push to get it done amidst having a baby (at age 44, with a toddler in tow) and uprooting my family to a country setting. I now think I know why He was in such a rush for this booklet.

After all that was behind me and the book was published, things started to fall into place as far as His Plan and Y2k. I'm not predicting, just reasoning based on all my studies.

First, He led me to your web site. AT first, I rejected it because of the "date-setting" thing. Something kept drawing me back to your work and then I realized that the rapture HAD to occur before January 1, 2000. We are amidst some incredible prosperity today. People are going about their lives so blindly never stopping to think that things are about to change DRAMATICALLY. Even those that have recognized the perils of Y2K and have begun preparing for disaster are single-focused, totally oblivious to the signs to the times. WHAT A PERFECT TIME FOR THE RAPTURE!!!

There is no where in the Bible that I can find referring to seven years of tribulation. God speaks of a 7-year treaty and seven years to finish the Age of the Jews. He does speak of 3 1/2 years of GREAT TRIBULATION when He starts pouring His Wrath on the earth. Therefore, a world economic disaster could begin at any time.

Without a disruption such as the rapture, the world will go merrily on our way and hit the Y2K wall without any warning. Certainly, that would give our world leaders an excuse to start a new one-world economy, gov't etc. BUT, it would be better if they had an excuse to get this new system going NOW before the Y2K chaos--mainly because systems are working now. If they wait, it will take MUCH LONGER to get a new system going as communications will really break down for awhile after Jan 1, 2000. THE RAPTURE WOULD BE A GREAT OPPORTUNITY!!!

Read this written by a group intending to be a part of this one world party:

"There is method and great organization in a detailed plan already near completion for the purpose of removing souls from this planet, in the event of catastropic events making a rescue necessary....The Great Evacuation will come upon the world very suddenly. The flash of emergency events will be as a lightening that flashes in the sky. So Sudden and so quick in its happening that it is over almost before you are aware of its presence....Our rescue ships will be able to come in close enough in the TWINKLING OF AN EYE (emphasis mine) to set the lifting beams in operation in a moment. And all over the globe where events warrant it, this will be the method of evacuation. Mankind will be lifted, levitated shall we say, by the beams from our smaller ships. These smaller craft will in turn taxi the persons to the larger ships overhead, higher in the atmosphere, where there is ample space and quarters and supplies for millions of people....PHASE 1 of the Great Exodus of souls from the planet will take place at a moment's notice when it is determined that the inhabitants are in danger. PHASE 2 immediately follows the first. The second phase is vital as we return FOR THE CHILDREN (emphasis mine) of all ages and races. The child does not have the power of choice in understanding nor personal accountability."

Afterwards, it will be explained like this (by the way, the folks left behind are be happy!!! (Right)

"Do not be concerned nor unduly upset if you do not participate in this first temporary lift-up of souls who serve with us. This merely means that your action in the plan is elsewhere, and you will be taken for your instructions or will receive them in some other manner. Do not take any personal affront if you are not alered or are not a participant in this first phase of our plan. Your time will come later and these instructions are not necessary for you at this time...."

(This came from Chuck Missler's Book "Alien Encounters", quoted from Tuella's "Project World Evacuation." (see http://www.alienencounters.com for more info on Missler's book.)

The dark side has read the Bible and knows it well. They know God plans on rescuing and the plans are on line to explain it. In fact, it will give them a perfect platform. They are just dying for us to leave. The time between the rapture and Y2K might give them just enough time to organize the world a bit on their terms. I believe the rapture will absolutely STUN the world and there won't be just a few of us missing. I also happen to believe there will not be a child under 12 left on earth. What a sad, sad world that would be.

This is just good old logic at work. Although, I've asked the Lord to lead me through this. This scenario keeps coming to mind, over and over. Only time will tell.

Marilyn, you are truly annointed. Thank you again for your obedience. And if you want to post this for others, great. But please don't feel obligated to answer. You are so busy. I'll buy you lunch in heaven. TO GOD BE THE GLORY.

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At http://y2kchaos.entrewave.com/view/y2kchaos/s35p109.htm
I found these "red letter dates" to watch for, as these dates would be the beginnings of calamities of year 2000 computer glitches...

RED LETTER DATES
These are dates that things should happen to computers and data bases that are not fixed. the are pre 1/1/00 breakk downs that should take place based on the model that the Y2K computer problem is a real problem.

6/1/98: New York State starts its fiscal year they run a two year projection so they should run into problems.

7/1/98: 46 of our states think this is 1st day of fiscal 1999, so all the uses of 99 as a code to tag things will be called into question.

Among other things, 99 has been used to designate the end of a file, or run or any number of things like data storage since of course the time would never come that it would be a date. Dum de dum dum

9/98: This is the day that the Government has picked to have all it's agencies Y2K compliant. The 3/15/98 OMB report on compliance said, "Overall, the Federal government continues to make progress in addressing the Y2K problem. Virtually all agencies have accelerated their target dates to conform to the new government-wide goals of September 1998 for completion of renovation and March 1999 for implementation. The percentage of mission-critical systems that are compliant has increased from 27 percent in November's report to 35 percent in this report." These are figures to keep track of.

Next time you see an OMB report compare their statements and projections then to now. For instance check out the GAO report.
10/1/98: 1st day of fiscal 1999 for the Federal Government, so watch for the problems with 99.

1/1/99: Is the actual day that the "99" bug gets loose. Dum de dum dum.! Having warned you about the 99 file marking problem, (And the dragnet music should have been a give away that something dangerous was around the corner) consider the fact that a number of programmers do not think that the actual form of the 99 codes really match anything that will look like a date to the computer. So this may be a false alarm. Nothing happening should not comfort you or relax you. And if something does happen, I wouldn't wait around for other people to start buying all the survival stuff and foods that's left. It's sort of like musical chairs. You can only sit out of the scramble for so long. Then the chairs are gone.

7/1/99: 46 States start fiscal year 2000. Dum de dum dum daaaa! This should be significant. But how significant are the projections that accounting departments make? Is it something that can be short circuited or quick fixed to make it look like the system's working? Keep your eye open for articles. Again. If these projections are cancelled, or are a disaster. Don't hang around on the house top or stop to get your coat on the way out. Time to do whatever is left to buy or sell. Though probably not necessarily the last time before travel is cut off that will probably depend on other factors.

8/22/99 The GPS, Global Positioning satellite navigation system rolls over its date and all unadjusted location equipment will be useless. Is the military prepared for this? How about all shipping and Merchant Marine? Rockwell International says that it's receivers will keep chugging along without so much as a hiccup right through the GPS rollover. This is because when it gets to GPS week number 1024 (August 22,1999), and the satellite then rolls over to week number zero, the receiver will automatically add 1024 to the week number transmitted by the satellite. Therefore, when the satellite says it is week 0 (January 5, 1980), the receiver adds 1024 weeks and the correct week of August 22,1999 is arrived at. A satellite broadcasted week 1 (1/12/1980) is correctly translated to week 1025 (8/29/1999) and so forth. Other people indicate that the GPS is used by the electrical power grid to coordinate cycles in power plants and distribution systems across the country so hopefully they have the sort of calculating equipment that will handle the roll over...

9/9/99: The day of the "9999" bug. "store", infinity, test for shutdown, etc. Again, this could turn out to be something that puts society back to sleep on the threat, because by then it will be popular knowledge that this is a warning sign. If other things have not come unglued by then, then this will definitely put them back to sleep. On it's own failure to be a big failure day is not as significant as if it is a big failure day on its own. If stampedes have not hit yet, they will now Banks, Market, survival food, equipment and property values dead in the city out of sight in the country.

10/1/99: The Federal Government starts of fiscal year 2000. If things are going wrong, then this will probably not be a significant date, though it could be the start of the year 2000 computer shut down for the feds and the final end to financial transactions id the Federal Reserve goes down at this point. Couldn't happen to a nicer people too! Except what happens to them will happen to us. As Jesus once said, "Show me a coin. Who's picture is on it?" Well curse them all you want, but they have been a part of the wealthiest era in history. I for one will miss the easy money and the easy life (comparatively) it bought.

There is of course 1/1/00 itself! That will set back the Division of Labor substantially.

My reply

Interesting. We had our first problem with it 5-21-98. We had a charge rejected by the terminal because the expiration date ended in 00.

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I started reading your website a couple months ago. I'm afraid that I and many people and animals that I love dearly will be left behind in the Pre-Trib Rapture.

Please pray for us who will be left on earth to suffer the next 10 years. I will pray that the Lord show us mercy and know who has good in their hearts.

My reply

Don't accept second best. Strive to be a wise virgin. Just to be sure, pray and tell Jesus you accept him as your Saviour. Confess all known sins and God will cleanse you of all unrighteousness (I John 1:9). Forgive others as you want to be forgiven. Don't get left behind. Good won't get us to Heaven, but believing in Christ will.

We are promised happiness in Heaven. Dr. Talbot used to say that if it takes your having pets there, you will have pets. Trust the Lord for Salvation, and trust him to be able to make you happy. He promised to wipe away all tears.

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(Note: this is a different person than the previous one who wrote in caps.)
DEAR WONDERFUL AND BEAUTIFUL SISTER...I ACCEPTED THE LORD JESUS AS MY SAVIOR ON MAY 1985. I HAVE HAD MY UPS AND DOWNS..BUT I HAVE GROWN TO LOVE AND TRUST THE LORD WITH ALL OF MY HEART...

I DONT BELIEVE THAT THERE IS ANY CONCRETE PROOF THAT THE RAPTURE WILL OCCURE 3 YEARS BEFORE THE TRIBULATION. I DO BELIEVE THAT IT WILL OCCURE VERY CLOSE TO THE TRIBULATION MAYBE JUST AFTER THE ANTICHRIST TAKES OFFICE OR JUST BEFORE.

THE HARVEST IS NOT READY FOR REAPING: THE BIBLE SAYS THAT ALL OF CREATION IS WAITING FOR THE MANIFISTATION OF THE SONS OF GOD AND GOD WILL TAKE ONTO HIMSLF A CHURCH WITHOUT SPOT OR BLEMISH. FORGIVE ME BUT THE CHURCH OF GOD IS VERY VERY VERY VERY FAR FROM BEING SPOTLESS. I BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE TO REACH THAT POINT. WHEN A CRISTIAN WALKS DOWN A STREET PEOPLE WILL AUTOMATICALLY KNOW HE IS A CRISTIAN BECAUSE OF THE GLOW OF THE HOLLY SPIRIT. THERE WILL BE A CLEAR DISTINCTION BETWEEN CRISTIAN AND NON CRISTIAN.

THE REVIVED ROMAN EMPIRE IS JUST ABOUT TO FORM ITSELF. THE EURO WILL BEGIN TO CIRCULATE IN JAN 1999. ALL NATIONAL CURRENCIES IN EUROPE WILL DISSIPATE BY 2000. THE OTHER 3 NATIONS WILL JOIN THE UNION IN 2002. (ACCORDING TO WHAT I READ ON THE INTERNET)

THE TRANS ATLANTIC MARKET AGREEMENT,, BETWEEN THE U. S.A. AND EUROPE AND EVENTUALLY THE WORLD,,, IS JUST GETTING STARTED. IT WILL TAKE TIME: MAYBE 5 YEARS

WE ARE STILL A LONG WAYS OFF FROM BINDING THE WORLD TO A CASHLESS SOCIETY: MAYBE 5 YEARS.

THE BIBLE SAYS THAT 10 KINGS WILL GIVE THERE POWER TO THE ANTICHRIST. WHEN THE ROMAN EMPIRE REVIVES THERE WILL BE TEN GOVERNORS. THE ANTICHRIST WILL COME LATER. I AM MENTIONING THIS BECAUSE I PERSONALLY BELIEVE THAT THE RAPTURE WILL OCCURE JUST BEFORE OR JUST AFTER THE ANTICHRIST TAKES OFFICE.

I BELIEVE THAT THE RAPTURE WILL OCCURE ARROUND THE YEAR 2006. GIVE OR TAKE 2 YEARS. AND SHORTLY AFTER THAT THE GREAT TRIB.

THANKYOU SISTER FOR CONSIDERING MY WORDS... ONCE AGAIN: I HOPE YOU ARE RIGHT!!! I LOVE YOU IN THE LOVE OF THE LORD!!! SEE YOU IN HEAVEN!!!

My reply

> I DONT BELIEVE THAT THERE IS ANY CONCRETE PROOF THAT THE RAPTURE
> WILL OCCURE 3 YEARS BEFORE THE TRIBULATION.

Then what do you think the parable of the barren fig tree in Luke 13:6-9 means?

> I DO BELIEVE THAT IT WILL OCCURE VERY CLOSE TO THE TRIBULATION MAYBE JUST AFTER
> THE ANTICHRIST TAKES OFFICE OR JUST BEFORE.

It has to be before the wicked one is revealed. The "apostasia," departure, i.e., Rapture, must come first (II Thess. 2:3).

> THE HARVEST IS NOT READY FOR REAPING: THE BIBLE SAYS THAT ALL OF
> CREATION IS WAITING FOR THE MANIFISTATION OF THE SONS OF GOD AND GOD
> WILL TAKE ONTO HIMSLF A CHURCH WITHOUT SPOT OR BLEMISH. FORGIVE ME BUT
> THE CHURCH OF GOD IS VERY VERY VERY VERY FAR FROM BEING SPOTLESS.

I think that is why there is a split between wise and foolish virgins, also between Philadelphians and Laodiceans. All are of the Body of Christ, but not all are of the Bride of Christ. Just as Eve was taken out of Adam's side, the Bride will be taken out of the Body of Christ.

> I BELIEVE THAT WE HAVE TO REACH THAT POINT. WHEN A CRISTIAN WALKS DOWN A
> STREET PEOPLE WILL AUTOMATICALLY KNOW HE IS A CRISTIAN BECAUSE OF THE
> GLOW OF THE HOLLY SPIRIT. THERE WILL BE A CLEAR DISTINCTION BETWEEN
> CRISTIAN AND NON CRISTIAN.

The tares look like the wheat while growing up.

> WE ARE STILL A LONG WAYS OFF FROM BINDING THE WORLD TO A CASHLESS
> SOCIETY: MAYBE 5 YEARS.

The MARC is already being introduced in 20 nations. Our military men in basic training are being issued the MARC. The 2YK computer glitch may hasten this too.

> THE BIBLE SAYS THAT 10 KINGS WILL GIVE THERE POWER TO THE
> ANTICHRIST. WHEN THE ROMAN EMPIRE REVIVES THERE WILL BE TEN GOVERNORS.
> THE ANTICHRIST WILL COME LATER.

The book of Revelation is written as if the Rapture is at hand. It is "at hand in 1:3 and 22:10. Jesus signs off with "Surely I come quickly," and he comes quickly at the Rapture (2:5). In Rev. 17:12, the ten kings "have received no kingdom as yet." That means that they are not in power at the time of the Rapture. Now look at Rev. 13:1. At the beginning of the Tribulation, all ten kings have "crowns." Do you see that there is a gap between the Rapture and the Tribulation?

> I BELIEVE THAT THE RAPTURE WILL OCCURE ARROUND THE YEAR 2006. GIVE
> OR TAKE 2 YEARS. AND SHORTLY AFTER THAT THE GREAT TRIB.

Psa. 122:3,4 (New Jerusalem Bible) says, "Jerusalem, built as a city, IN ONE UNITED WHOLE, there the tribes to up, the tribes of Yahweh, A SIGN for Israel to give thanks to the name of Yahweh." The Sign of the End of the Age (Mt. 24:3) was the Six-Day War of 1967. That is when Israel grew leaves (Gaza, Golan Heights, Sinai and West Bank) and fulfilled the parable of the fig tree in Mt.24:32-34. One generation from 1967 is 2007. I think this age ends and the millennial Day of the Lord begins as the Feast of Trumpets begins, on Tishri 1, 5768.

Christ is to return seven months later (Ezek 39:12), on Nisan 1 (Ezek. 29:17,21), the beginning of the Jewish Regnal and Sacred Year. Thus the year 5768 must be a leap year, and it is. Also, the exact count, by inclusive reckoning, of the 2300 days of Dan. 8:14 begin on the Feast of Weeks, 5761, and end on Tishri 1, 5768.

Do your homework. See if your projected date fits the necessary criteria. I looked into a lot of years for the return of Christ and only found one that fit. And when I found it, I was astonished to find that it fell on April 6, on our calendar, just like the Crucifixion did in 30 AD. Doesn't that sound like something that the Lord would do?....

Mark 13:23 (Lamsa Bible), Jesus says, "But be careful; behold, I have told you EVERYTHING IN ADVANCE." All the clues are in the Bible, but you have to search hard for them and put the puzzle together.

Just be ready in case I am right. We have nothing to lose by being ready.

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Many of us are so encouraged by your hard work, loving attitude and Christlike spirit. Don't be discouraged by the naysayers. Your life shows so much fruit of the spirit! We love you and appreciate you, and are looking forward to meeting you in the air! God bless

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© 1998 Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 6-18-98