Pro and Con 1296

Posted 7-27-06

This stone, to be used for the "place of trumpeting" was found on the ground at the southwest corner of the Temple Mount

It shows us that the "place of trumpeting" was on top of the Temple Mount at the southwest corner. There may have been a corner turret. See the whole stone below.

Image courtesy of

This fragment of the Temple was found during excavation near the western wall.

Image courtesy of


Rome, 26 July (AKI) - UN secretary general Kofi Annan on Wednesday called for an immediate ceasefire to stop fighting between Israel and Hezbollah guerrillas at crisis talks in Rome on Wednesday....

Top on the agenda of the crisis talks were also the potential deployment of a multinational force to stabilize Lebanon's border with Israel and the opening of safe corridors for aid.

Incoming e-mail

Marilyn: Can you tell me why you are now looking at a 2007 rapture? Is it because it is 40 years from 1967? Just curious. Thanks!

My reply

I'm hoping for Av 9, 10 (Aug. 3, 4, 2006). We are the temple of the Holy Spirit, and the Temple of God went up in clouds of smoke two times on that date. Maybe we will go up in clouds on that date too. Agape

Note: If not then, it could be on the Feast of Trumpets (Sept. 23, 2006), because the trump of God will sound. It also could be on Cheshvan 17 (Nov. 8, 2006), the date when Noah entered the Ark and the Lord shut him in. Jesus said it would be as the days of Noah.

Incoming e-mail, Re: TEMPLE LOCATION

Marilyn re your post on your site re the location of the Temple.

I am remembering some reference to something about how some part of the Temple "lined up" with some walkway or view from the Mount of Olives.

Does this ring any bells with you? God bless you and Ed.

My reply

Yes. The High Priest was able to see into the Temple from the spot on the Mt of Olives where the red heifer was burned. The diagram below depicts the line of sight. I don't know if it is exact or not, but you get the idea.

There was a causeway, supported by arches, that crossed the Kidron Valley to the Golden Gate of the Temple Mount. During Passion Week, Jesus came and went from the Temple, where he taught in the daytime, to Mt. Olives, where he slept at night, by the way of the arched causeway. The Golden Gate in the eastern wall of the Temple Mount that Jesus went in and out of is now closed up. Why? because the Lord of hosts, the Redeemer, Yqhweh king of Israel (Isa. 44:6), the "LORD, the God of Israel" passed through it on his way to the temple each day.

Some people expect Jesus to return and go through the Golden Gate. Why? Eze 44:2 says, "Then said the LORD unto me; This gate shall (in the future) be shut, it shall (in the future) NOT BE OPENED, and no man shall enter in by it; because the LORD, THE GOD OF ISRAEL, hath (in the past, i.e., in 30 AD) entered in by it, therefore it shall (i.e., some time after Jesus was crucified, I think it was in 610 AD) be shut."
Visiting The Temple Mount, by Lambert Dolphin

At the end of the First Temple period the eastern gate was closed (see Ezekiel XLIV, I. "Then he brought me back the way of the outer gate of the sanctuary which looketh toward the east; and it was shut.") During the Second Temple period this was the site of the Shushan Gate, mentioned in the Mishnah (Middot 1, 3), or the Eastern Gate (Nehemiah III, 29). A CAUSEWAY SUPPORTED BY ARCHES RAN FROM THE GATE ACROSS THE KIDRON VALLEY, AND WAS KNOWN AS THE CAUSEWAY OF THE HEIFER, since the High Priest used this way to reach the Mount of Olives where the ritual burning of the Red Heifer took place, to purify the pilgrims with its ashes (Parah 111, 6; Shekalim IV, 2).
The Red Heifer and the Crucifixion
By Doug Jacoby, 7-1997

...The Miphkad Altar

There is substantial evidence in the Old Testament for a location "outside the camp" devoted to the incineration of the bodies of sacrificial animals, the Miphkad Altar11 (Leviticus 4:12, 6:11).12

In Hebrews 13 the writer contrasts the holocausts at the Temple with those outside – namely, at the Miphkad Altar, mentioned in Numbers, Ezekiel13 and the Mishnah. Jesus’ death is symbolically connected with this altar14 outside the Temple. (Not to say that the crucifixion necessarily took place at this altar.) Where were the bodies of the sacrificial victims totally incinerated?

The Miphkad Altar stood 2000 cubits from the Temple on the Mount of Olives,15 and although few Christians today – or Jews, for that matter – realize its true significance, this is arguably the most important of the three altars of the Temple. The three are (1) the altar of burnt offering, (2) the incense altar, and (3) the Miphkad Altar (technically a pit, according to Parah 4:2).16

It is certainly not difficult to see how much richer the symbolism and typology of death of Jesus is if our "red heifer sacrifice" was "slaughtered" on the Mount of Olives, in roughly the same location as the original Red Heifer sacrifice.

One final comment on the third altar of the Temple. The Mishnah says clearly that the priests offering the sacrifice of the Red Heifer needed to be able to see the altar of burnt offering from their vantage point on the Mount of Olives:

All the [Temple] walls were high, save only the eastern wall, because the priest that burns the Heifer and stands on top of the Mount of Olives should be able to look directly into the entrance of the sanctuary when the blood [of the Red Heifer] is sprinkled (Middoth 2:4)....

(1) Miphkad Altar and Red Heifer Sacrifice

As we have seen, both Torah and Mishnah clearly declare that the "third" altar of the Temple was located on the Mount of Olives, and it was here that the Red Heifer was slain. Moreover, as we have seen, there was already a significant site halfway up the Mount of Olives a thousand years before Jesus was crucified (2 Samuel 15:32). Since the Red Heifer sacrifice represents the sacrifice of the Son of God, it is certainly a good possibility that his death took place on "Upper" Mount Moriah." Agape

His reply, Re: FOLLOW UP

The line of sight below seems to be at an angle. Wouldn't you think it would have to be at a 90 degree angle to the Temple was and the Eastern gates?

Also, there is something in my memory about one of the sacrifices in the OT and the side of the Temple it had to be sacrificed on? I am just not sure where that is located....but it may give further clues as the where the crucifixion was actually at.

And the tours in Jerusalem, if asked for and to the correct folks, will include another site for the crucifixion other than the traditional one. There is name for this site, I think after the person who 'discovered' it.

Let me know your thoughts and any other research you come up with and I will do the same.

My reply

> > The line of sight below seems to be at an angle. Wouldn't you think it would have to be at a 90 degree angle to the Temple was and the Eastern gates?

I think it would have to be due east of the Temple or one couldn't see into the Temple. One doesn't see much within a room when he is looking at the doorway at an angle.

I don't remember running into the Miphkad Altar before. The only place where Miphkad occurs in the KJV is Neh 3:31. It says, "After him repaired Malchiah the goldsmith's son unto the place of the Nethinims, and of the merchants, over against the gate Miphkad, and to the going up of the corner."

Here are a couple of footnotes on the site that mentioned the Miphkad Altar: The Red Heifer and the Crucifixion, By Doug Jacoby, 7-1997

11 In 2 Samuel 24:9 and 1 Chronicles 21:5, the census ordered by David, miphkad, has etymological reference to counting. In Nehemiah 3:31 the miphkad gate is rendered The Inspection Gate.

12 See Exodus 29:14, Leviticus 4:12, 4:22, 6:11, 8:17, 9:11, 16:27, and Numbers 19:3, 9.
The Red Heifer Sacrifice

In Nehemiah 3:31 we read about the Gate Miphkad (KJV). Looking at the word Miphkad we can see that it means "appointed" and is translated so in several renderings. The word Miphkad appears in Ezekiel 43:21 also where it is translated appointed. This is referring to a specific place not a place in general. The rabbis have named the altar of sacrifice for the Red Heifer as the "Miphkad Altar".

rabbis have named the altar of sacrifice for the Red Heifer as the "Miphkad Altar".
The Location of the Crucifixion

Ezekiel 43:21 - Thou shalt take the bullock also of the sin offering and he shall burn it in the appointed place of the house, without the sanctuary.

The words "appointed place" in the Hebrew is the word "miphqad." Miphqad comes from the verb paqad which means to number. The gate of the city that led to the "appointed place" was called the Miphkad Gate.

The Miphkad Gate (referred to in Nehemiah 3:31) was located on the east wall just north of the east gate leading to the Temple. The Miphkad Gate opened onto the road leading up the Mount of Olives just north of the place where the bodies were burned. This road led to the Miphkad, or "appointed place," where people registered for the Temple tax. Each person [head count] was taxed at this location. The word "Golgotha," used in the Gospels to describe the place of the crucifixion, is an Aramaic word which suggests this area of registry known as Miphkad. The related Hebrew word bears the same meaning. It is gulgoleth, which means "skull, head, or poll." It is a head count.

I'm sure glad you brought this up. Let's see what else we can find on this. Agape

His reply, Re: Associates for Scriptural Knowledge

Marilyn, take a look at this and click on the Temple to enlarge it. Let me know your thoughts.

My reply

> > - The book The Temples That Jerusalem Forgot is a result of the in-depth research of Dr. Ernest Martin that shows that the Temples of God in Jerusalem were indeed located over the Gihon Spring and not under the Dome of the Rock.
Of course, they meant "over" the Dome of the Rock, not "under" it.

I don't think the Temple was located over the Gihon Spring, or over the Dome of the Rock. It was on the Temple Mount between the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque.

The aqueduct bringing spring water from the EIN EITAM spring (about 7 miles south of the Temple Mount) from the hills of Bethlehem entered the Temple Mount at Wilson's Arch. The spring was 23 cubits higher than the level of the Temple Court, which was lower than that area is today. The aqueduct worked by gravity and a 100 ft. siphon near Rachael's tomb kept it working correctly. At Wilson's Arch, the aqueduct entered the Temple Mount and turned southeast. It ran to the Al Kas Fountain and the nearby cistern called the Great Sea, because it was the largest one of about 31 cisterns at the Temple Mount. The Temple was built over the Great Sea cistern in the area of the Al Kas fountain of today.

According to the height of the aqueduct, the temple was lower than that area is today. After the Temple was burned in 70 AD, soil was brought in from north of the mount to completely obliterate any sign of where the Temple once stood, for the first row of stones in the foundation still could be seen. That lower height was only possible in the southern part of the Temple Mount. The bedrock was too close to the surface north of that. South of the rock outcropping, the bedrock slanted downward sharply, making it possible for the Temple to be supplied with spring water from south of Bethlehem.

Evidence of the Temple being on the Temple Mount is found at the foot of the walls. Great cloisters were shoved off the top to become rubble surrounding the walls. Since you have been there, I would appreciate your telling me what kind of artifacts your group found in the western wall tunnel. I have seen pictures of the broken pieces of stone that hit the road that was along the western side. Those stones came from what was built on top of the mount other than Fort Antonia, which was not destroyed at that time.

I think the Temple was due east of the wailing wall that is still standing, i.e., between Wilson's arch and where the segment of the western wall fell on Valentine's Day. Thus, the faces of the Bride and Bridegroom are centered in the wailing wall. The north and south Temple walls lined up visually with the left and right sides of the wailing wall that is still standing. The Lord indicated where the Temple should be built with those faces on the wall.

When the floor of the court needed to be cleaned after sacrificing, conduits were opened at the baseboard level of the walls. Spring water from the aqueduct flowed over the floor until it was clean. Then the openings were closed until after the next sacrifice.

In "The Temple of Solomon," by Lambert Dolphin (, he said, "We have descriptions of the ritual bath (mikvah) used by the high priest. The mikvah was supplied by flowing ("living") water FROM THE SPRING CALLED EIN EITAM WHICH IS IN THE HILLS OF BETHLEHEM NEAR THE POOLS OF SOLOMON WHICH ARE STILL EXTANT. THE SPRING WAS 23 CUBITS ABOVE THE LEVEL OF THE TEMPLE COURT" (Steve Austin, The Extraordinary Middle East Earthquake of 750 BC, Institute of Creation Research, San Diego, 1989).

Water from the Gihon Spring was brought by aqueduct into the Temple Mount at the Hulda Gate. The Temple was close to where the Hulda stairs exited on the Temple Mount. Today, that's by the northeast corner of the Al Aqsa Mosque. Therefore, there was no need to think that the Temple was built over the Gihon Spring. It was built on the threshing floor that David purchased.

King David bought the threshing floor on Mt. Moriah and left Solomon the pattern for the temple to be built on Mt. Moriah. Herod's Temple was built on the same spot as Solomon's Temple. According to Josephus, Herod cleared away the old foundations and built new ones.

ELM knew that there must be spring water for use at the temple. He said that the Gihon Spring was the only spring within a 5 mile radius of Jerusalem. He obviously missed finding out about the spring water that was brought to the temple by aqueduct from about 7 miles away. I found the names of 7 springs in the general area of Solomon's Pools that supplied water to the aqueduct that went into the Temple Mount. These springs also supplied water to Solomon's Pools.

Josephus told us that Fort Antonia was built around the rock outcropping on the Temple Mount. Therefore, the rock wasn't in the Temple area at all. The east-west line that divided the Temple area from Fort Antonia ran just south of the rock. Josephus also told us that Fort Antonia joined the temple cloisters at the northwest corner of the outer court of the Temple. Soldiers came down into the Temple court to keep peace on Feast Days.

Scripture shows that Paul was pulled out of the Temple on the southern part of the Temple Mount and taken toward Fort Antonia in the northern part of the Mount. The man in charge of the soldiers came "down" into the Temple court. Paul spoke to the people from the stairs that went up from the northwest corner of the Temple's double cloisters to Fort Antonia, which was on a higher plane than the Temple.

Acts 21:30-40 says, "they took Paul, and drew him OUT OF THE TEMPLE: and forthwith the doors were shut. And as they went about to kill him, tidings came unto the chief captain of the band, that all Jerusalem was in an uproar. Who immediately took soldiers and centurions, and ran DOWN (i.e., down the stairs) unto them: and when they saw the chief captain and the soldiers, they left beating of Paul. Then the chief captain came near, and took him, and commanded him to be bound with two chains; and demanded who he was, and what he had done. And some cried one thing, some another, among the multitude: and when he could not know the certainty for the tumult, he commanded him to be CARRIED into the castle (i.e., Fort Antonia was built like a castle). And when he came upon the STAIRS, so it was, that he was BORNE OF THE SOLDIERS for the violence of the people. For the multitude of the people followed after, crying, Away with him. And AS PAUL WAS TO BE LED INTO THE CASTLE (Fort Antonia), he said unto the chief captain, May I speak unto thee? Who said, Canst thou speak Greek? Art not thou that Egyptian, which before these days madest an uproar, and leddest out into the wilderness four thousand men that were murderers? But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people. And when he had given him licence, PAUL STOOD ON THE STAIRS, and beckoned with the hand unto the people. And when there was made a great silence, he spake unto them in the Hebrew tongue".

Some think that the Holy of Holies was built over the rock. That is impossible for two reasons. The rock was too large to fit inside any part of the Temple. Also, according to the Bible, the floors of both the Holy Place and the Holy of Holies were of cedar boards covered with gold.

1Ki 6:16,30 says, "And he built twenty cubits on the sides of the house, both the floor and the walls with boards of CEDAR: he even built them for it within, even for the oracle, even for the most holy place....And the FLOOR of the house he overlaid with gold, within and without."

In Wars V. V. 8, Josephus, a Pharisee priest, said of Herod's Temple, "Now, as to THE TOWER OF ANTONIA, IT WAS SITUATED AT THE CORNER OF TWO CLOISTERS OF THE COURT OF THE TEMPLE; of that on the west and that on the north; IT WAS ERECTED UPON A ROCK OF FIFTY CUBITS IN HEIGHT, and was on a great precipice...THE ROCK ITSELF WAS COVERED OVER WITH SMOOTH PIECES OF STONE, FROM ITS FOUNDATION, both for ornament, and that any one who would either try to get up, or to go down it, might not be able to hold his feet upon it."

The Holy of Holies actually was a 20 cubit cube, but the 40 cubit height given above for the Holy of Holies would not even hold a rock of 50 cubits in height. The width of the rock was also more than the width of the Holy of Holies. The rock under the Dome of the Rock is now 39 by 56 feet. If we go by the 18" cubit, 20 cubits would be 30 feet. Even that part of the rock that is left today would not fit inside of the Holy of Holies. Agape

"The Riddle of the Seven Kings" from Five Doves site

Steve Wilson (17 July 2006)

John, I am a watcher who has learned a lot from the insights and discussions on 5 doves. I had booked marked a link to a very well researched interpretation on the riddle of the seven kings on but the site has been taken over by a very secular translation service. Do you know what has happened to the Lady and her inspired interpretations? Thank you for your help. Steve Wilson
Doves, can anyone help Steve? Thanks, John

My reply

I don't know about that web site, but I can identify the 7 kingdoms.

1. Babel I
2. Babylon II
3. Media Persia
4. Greece
5. Imperial Rome
6. Ecclesiastical Rome
7. Babylon III

The Mystery Religion of Babylon began with Nimrod, Semiramis and Tammuz at the Tower of Babel. Rev 17:5 ties in. It says, "And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS (i.e., false religions) AND ABOMINATIONS (i.e., idols) OF THE EARTH.

Rev 17:10 says, "And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space."

The setting of Rev. 17 is immediately following the Pre-Trib Rapture. Verse 14 says, "he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful. "

On the day of the Rapture, the first five kingdoms have fallen, Babel I, Babylon II, Media-Persia, Greece and Imperial Rome. Ecclesiastic Rome, the 1st beast of Rev. 13, is in power, and the "other," the False Prophet, the 2nd beast of Rev. 13, has not yet come to full power. When he comes to power Mid-Trib, he will continue a short space, the Great Tribulation. It is this final 3.5 years of the Tribulation that get shortened or no flesh would be saved.

Of this time, Mt. 24:21-24 says, "For then (Mid-Trib) shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days (the 1260 of Rev. 12:6) should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect."

Rev 17:11 says, "And the beast (the great red dragon, i.e., Satan) that was (in man, Judas Iscariot), and is not (in man at the time of the Rapture), even he is the eighth (the tail of the great red dragon), and is of the seven (and all 7 are called 'the name of blasphemy' [Rev. 13:1], i.e., Pontifex Maximus), and goeth into perdition (the False Prophet, the 2nd son of Perdition; Judas Iscariot was the first).

The reason that Pontifex Maximus, High Priest, the name that has been applied to all 7 heads of the Mystery Religion of Babylon, is the name of blasphemy is because Jesus is our High Priest. Imagine calling the Satan-possessed False Prophet Pontifex Maximus; that's blasphemy, big time. Agape


By Marilyn Agee

There is disagreement on where the Temple was located. on the mount. After reading some of the most sincere arguments, I still see no way of reconciling the facts to any location but between the Dome of the Rock and the Al Aqsa Mosque. I wonder why it is so hard to see. To me, the Bible gives us enough information to lead us to the right conclusion.

1 Kings 6:16-21; 27-30 says of the Holy of Holies built by Solomon, "BOTH THE FLOOR AND THE WALLS WITH BOARDS OF CEDAR: HE EVEN BUILT THEM FOR IT WITHIN, EVEN FOR THE ORACLE, EVEN FOR THE MOST HOLY PLACE. And the house, that is, the temple before it, was forty cubits long. And the cedar of the house within was carved with knops and open flowers: all was cedar; there was no stone seen. And the oracle he prepared in the house within, to set there the ark of the covenant of the LORD. AND THE ORACLE IN THE FOREPART WAS TWENTY CUBITS IN LENGTH, AND TWENTY CUBITS IN BREADTH, AND TWENTY CUBITS IN THE HEIGHT THEREOF: AND HE OVERLAID IT WITH PURE GOLD....So Solomon overlaid the house within with pure gold..."HE SET THE CHERUBIMS WITHIN THE INNER HOUSE: and they stretched forth the wings of the cherubims, so that the wing of the one touched the one wall, and the wing of the other cherub touched the other wall; and their wings touched one another in the midst of the house. And he overlaid the cherubims with gold. And he carved all the walls of the house round about with carved figures of cherubims and palm trees and open flowers, within and without. And THE FLOOR OF THE HOUSE HE OVERLAID WITH GOLD, within and without."

That seems clear. The floor of the Holy of Holies was cedar covered with gold. No rock was mentioned. Yet, I found the following on a Jewish web site:

"The Holy of Holies...Its dimensions were 20 cubits long, 20 cubits wide, and 40 cubits high. THE FLOOR, WALLS, AND CEILING WERE PLATED WITH GOLD, as was the Kodesh.

"IN THE HOLY OF HOLIES WAS A ROCK that projected above the ground to a height of 3 fingers. The rock was first uncovered by King David and the prophet Samuel.

"Some say the rock was in the very center of the Holy of Holies; others say it was near the western wall of the Holy of Holies, and still others maintain that it was near the curtains separating the Kodesh and the Holy of Holies".

"The Ark (which contained the tablets with the Ten Commandments) rested upon the rock during the First Temple era." (Kodesh HaKodashim - Holy of Holies
In Wars V. V. 8, Josephus, a Pharisee priest, said of Herod's Temple, "Now, as to THE TOWER OF ANTONIA, IT WAS SITUATED AT THE CORNER OF TWO CLOISTERS OF THE COURT OF THE TEMPLE; of that on the west and that on the north; IT WAS ERECTED UPON A ROCK OF FIFTY CUBITS IN HEIGHT, and was on a great precipice...THE ROCK ITSELF WAS COVERED OVER WITH SMOOTH PIECES OF STONE, FROM ITS FOUNDATION, both for ornament, and that any one who would either try to get up, or to go down it, might not be able to hold his feet upon it."

The Holy of Holies actually was a 20 cubit cube, but the 40 cubit height given above for the Holy of Holies would not even hold a rock of 50 cubits in height. The width of the rock was also more than the width of the Holy of Holies. The rock under the Dome of the Rock is now 39 by 56 feet. If we go by the 18" cubit, 20 cubits would be 30 feet. Even that part of the rock that is left today would not fit inside of the Holy of Holies.
Old City Excavations Opened - 10-8-1999

The Antiquities Authority opened the excavations south of the South Wall of the Temple Mount in Jerusalem's Old City Sunday. The excavations show impressive remnants of King Herod's royal pillared corridor, including parts of columns and large sections of embossed stone cornices with geometric designs. The original building was 180 meters long - the largest roofed structure of its time in Israel, and one of the largest in the ancient world. The Romans destroyed it to its foundations during the destruction of Jerusalem, and hurled its parts down outside the Temple Mount walls. Also excavated and partially restored is the "Hulda Staircase," which afforded access to the Temple."

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