Pro and Con 1298

Posted 8-20-06

The sign of Rev. 12:1f will appear in the evening on Sept. 25, 2006

Virgo will be clothed with the Sun, and the Moon will be under her feet
http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/uncgi/Yoursky

I think this sign shows that on the true Lunar/Solar Calendar, Tishri 1 should be Sept. 25. The present Hebrew mathematical calendar says that Sept. 23 is Tishri 1. Determining the time of the sign could be important, because it could mark the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture, just as it marked the time of Adam's creation and the day Jesus was born into this world. The Bride of Christ will be born into a new world at the Rapture. It could be when this sign appears in the sky.

Incoming e-mail, Re: Rapture

Thus says the LORD

O Daughter of Zion: Many times I have spoken to you and many times you have shunned ME, I have even spoken with you with stammering lips and other tongues and still you did not hear my calling. Many times I have sent prophets unto you to call you out of mans teaching and many times you have ignored them, I have even torn down your altars and you have rebuilt them, I have even let your body be infected with sickness and aloud you to have broken bones, so that you would draw close to ME, you have even looked to witchery seeking signs of my coming.

Now let it be known that this is MY last warning for you, calling you out of the teachings of men, before MY wrath falls upon you, then you will know that I am the LORD thy GOD. Repent and make straight your crocked path and return back unto ME, for the love that I have for you is undying.

The Thessalonians must have though the LORD was going to return in their day.

2Thessalonians 2 1Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

I purposely move verse four down so that it could be clearer and easier to understand.

5Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. This restrainer is not against the man of sin but it is restraining the LORD from coming back and gathering HIS Church.

Paul is saying that Yahshua can not come until the falling away comes and the man of sin is revealed. This have to happen first, before Yahshua can come back.

4who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. This man of sin is doing Great signs and Wonders and he is deceiving many into believing he is GOD.

What is restrainer that holds Christ back and keeps HIM from returning to earth for HIS Church?

Most people will say the restrainer is the prayers of the Saints and they are holding back the man of sin from coming, but they are not rightly dividing the word.

This restrainer is holding back Christ from coming and not the man of sin. Paul was not concerned with the man of sin; he was concerned with the return of the LORD and our gathering together to HIM, and it says this in verse 1. The restrainer is the falling away and the man of sin being revealed, and they are restraining Yahshua from coming, the falling away has to come first and the man of sin be revealed, before Christ can return. The man of sin will be revealed in his on time; in the 42 months that he is to reign, he will be revealed to those that believe that he was the Christ.

7For the mystery of iniquity is already at work; for only those who let it work will do so until he be taken out of the way. And for this reason GOD will send them a strong delusion that they should believe in a lie.

We have got to understand that this verse is basically saying the same thing as verse 3 is saying, the falling away has to come first, iniquity have to be taken out of the way.

Paul said that iniquity was already at work in anyone that would let it work and iniquity will always work until the one that is letting it work is taken out of the way. For this reason GOD have sent them a strong delusion that they would believe in a lie. This lie they believe in is what causes them to fall away, the lie cause them to think that the man of sin was the Christ, and all that believe in the lie WILL see the man of sin as the GOD of the universe. This is the fulfillment of the Gentiles when they are turned over to the man of sin and treading under foot the temple of GOD while this man of sin is proclaiming peace and safety and proclaiming to be GOD. We got to know that it is iniquity that is going to be taken out of the way. The sad thing is that the iniquity that Paul is talking about here is only that of the Church and for this reason GOD will send them a strong delusion that they would believe in the lie.

It is a time frame that is holding back the man of sin from coming on the seen, when this time frame is past then the man of sin will come to his calling, and then the man of sin will be revealed, but only in his own time, in the 42 months that he is to reign over the temple he will be revealed nearing the end of his reign. And then the world will know who he is, including those who fell away from Christ, and these are the foolish virgins that were not prepared to go through the Tribulation, they did not have enough oil in their lamps to go through the Tribulations, they were looking and believing in a false hope, when they find out who this man of sin is, it will be too late for the to get enough oil in their lamps, so they can be with Christ.

8And then the lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.

9He that is coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders. Christ is the one that is coming, but only after Satan has done his work in deceiving the world in believing that the man of sin is the Creator of the Universe.

10And with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. People will be deceived all over the world by the man of sin with his Great Signs and Wonders, when we look at the Trumpets in Revelation we can see that six of the Trumpets are the Great Signs and Wonders that the man of sin is producing, but the last Trumpet is the voice of the LORD calling out to HIS people that truly loved HIM even unto death, saying come up here. Those that fall away to the man of sin could not receive the love of the truth so they might be saved. They were always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth, and it is because they did not love the truth, so they would rather believe in a lie.

11And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie.

The lie they believe is they believe they don?t have to wait for the falling away and the man of sin to be revealed before they are taken out, they believe that they will be taken out even before the Tribulations start and this is the greatest lie that was ever told. I am not to sure but what the ministers that have the truth that knows about this lie, they to may be held accountable for letting this lie be preached from behind their pulpit. There are many that have the truth and they still allow this lie to be preached at their place of worship. 12that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. It is more pleasurable to believe in a lie that we are going to escape the Great Tribulations, than to hear someone say that we are going to suffer the TRIBULATIONS.

But the truth of the matter is that, Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31

1Thessalonians 4: 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Thus says the LORD:

The Rapture Doctoring was a door opened by men, those that pass through that door by choice; I count them as being unwilling to suffer for MY name sake, therefore I will close the door behind them and no man shall open that door. He that deny me before men; I will deny him before MY FATHER. He that is unwilling to suffer for my name sake, have made MY suffering in vain.

My reply

YOU SAID,
> > "Thus says the LORD

> > O Daughter of Zion: Many times I have spoken to you and many times you have shunned ME, I have even spoken with you with stammering lips and other tongues and still you did not hear my calling. Many times I have sent prophets unto you to call you out of mans teaching and many times you have ignored them, I have even torn down your altars and you have rebuilt them, I have even let your body be infected with sickness and aloud you to have broken bones, so that you would draw close to ME, you have even looked to witchery seeking signs of my coming.

> > Now let it be known that this is MY last warning for you, calling you out of the teachings of men, before MY wrath falls upon you, then you will know that I am the LORD thy GOD. Repent and make straight your crocked path and return back unto ME, for the love that I have for you is undying."

YOU ALSO SAID, > > "Thus says the LORD:
The Rapture Doctoring was a door opened by men, those that pass through that door by choice; I count them as being unwilling to suffer for MY name sake, therefore I will close the door behind them and no man shall open that door. He that deny me before men; I will deny him before MY FATHER. He that is unwilling to suffer for my name sake, have made MY suffering in vain."

Aren't you scared to say "Thus says the LORD" when what you are saying is not in Scripture? I sure would be. You should make absolutely sure that you're not adding to the word of God, for Rev. 22:18 says, "I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book". That's pretty stiff punishment for adding to the word of God. If I were you, I'd retract those words and ask the Lord for forgiveness ASAP, as in I John 1:9. It says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. "

Isa 28:11-22 is the closest I know of for your first statement, and it does not say everything you said. It says, "For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place. And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it. From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report. For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it. For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act. Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth."

I think this consumption is when the two asteroids of Rev. 8:8,10 impact Earth. I think the first one will hit the Mediterranean Sea, causing the tsunami that "shall overflow the hiding place." I expect the second one to destroy Babylon, Iraq.

> > 2Thessalonians 2 1Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,

> > I purposely move verse four down so that it could be clearer and easier to understand.

> > 5Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? 6And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. This restrainer is not against the man of sin but it is restraining the LORD from coming back and gathering HIS Church.

> > Paul is saying that Yahshua can not come until the falling away comes and the man of sin is revealed. This have to happen first, before Yahshua can come back.

> > 4who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. This man of sin is doing Great signs and Wonders and he is deceiving many into believing he is GOD.

> > What is restrainer that holds Christ back and keeps HIM from returning to earth for HIS Church?

> > Most people will say the restrainer is the prayers of the Saints and they are holding back the man of sin from coming, but they are not rightly dividing the word.

> > This restrainer is holding back Christ from coming and not the man of sin.

One thing for sure, no man or angel can restrain the Creater (Heb. 1:2; John 1:3). He is omnipotent. Yahshua/Jesus Christ is Yahweh of hosts. Isa. 44:6 says, "Thus saith the LORD (YHWH) the King of Israel, AND his redeemer the LORD (YHWH) of hosts; I am the first (YHWH King of Israel), AND I am the last (YHWH of hosts, the Redeemer, i.e., Yahshua/Christ); and beside me there is no God."

II Cor. 5:19 says, "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself". Isaiah 54:5 says, "For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and THY REDEEMER THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL; THE GOD OF THE WHOLE EARTH SHALL HE BE CALLED."

It is the Holy Spirit in Christians that is restraining the appearance of the Man of Sin, the False Prophet. We are the salt of the Earth, and salt retards the growth of leaven in breadmaking. In the Bible, leaven is the symbol of evil and sin. As long as the salt of the Earth is here, the Holy Spirit in us restrains the appearance of the Man of Sin. When the Rapture takes place, the restraining will be ended, and the Man of Sin can be revealed.

> > Paul is saying that Yahshua can not come until the falling away comes and the man of sin is revealed. This have to happen first, before Yahshua can come back.

I think that is a misconception because of the way the KJV is translated. Almost all the major MSS show that it is the Day of the Lord in verse 2. That day is when God's wrath is poured out on Earth. That day is not at hand even yet. It comes at the end of the shortened Great Tribulation, which is the last half of the 7-year Tribulation.

In the following translations, II Thessalonians 2:3 shows, as it should, that the departing (i.e., the Rapture) comes first, then the son of perdition will be revealed. There are only two sons of perdition, Judas Iscariot and the False Prophet. Satan actually enters into both.

In John 17:12, Jesus said, "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition (Judas Iscariot); that the scripture might be fulfilled."

The setting of Rev. 17 is when the Rapture has just taken place. Verse 14 says of Christ, "the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and THEY THAT ARE WITH HIM are called, and chosen, and faithful."

Rev 17:8 says, "The beast (the great red dragon, i.e., Satan) that thou sawest was (in Judas Iscariot), and is not (in man at the time of the Rapture); and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit (Mid-Trib), and go into perdition (the False Prophet): and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast (Satan) that was (in Judas), and is not (in man now), and yet is" (exists).

Why does Satan come up out of the bottomless pit Mid-Trib? Rev. 12:7-9 says, "there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out INTO THE EARTH". He then comes up to indwell the False Prophet.

The Rapture (the departing) precedes the Tribulation. Look at these translations.

Geneva Bible (1587)
"Let no man deceiue you by any meanes: for that day shall not come, except there come a departing first, and that that man of sinne be disclosed, euen the sonne of perdition".

Miles Covendale (1535)
"Let noman disceaue you by eny meanes. For the LORDE commeth not, excepte the departynge come first, and that that Man of synne be opened, euen the sonne of perdicion".

Tyndale New Testament (1526)
"Let no ma deceave you by eny meanes for the lorde commeth not excepte ther come a departynge fyrst and that that synfnll man be opened ye sonne of perdicion".

> > But the truth of the matter is that, Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Matthew 24:29-31

> > 1Thessalonians 4: 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

These two passages are talking about two different times and two different Raptures, the Pre-Wrath Rapture and the Pre-Trib Rapture. Mt. 24:29-31 is talking about the great and dreadful Day of the Lord. It is the day of the Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Tribulation saints just before the wrath of God hits Earth. I Thess. 4:17,17 is talking about the Pre-Trib Rapture.

Notice that those gathered in Mt. 24:31 are already in Heaven.

Mark 13:25-27 says, "the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory. And then (tote, at the same time) shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH (i.e., the Pre-Wrath Rapture) to the uttermost part of HEAVEN" (those that were previously caught up to Heaven in the Pre-Trib Rapture). Agape

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