Pro and Con 1307
"And before the throne there was a sea of glass like crystal" (Rev. 4:6 Webster)
Incoming e-mail, RE: OK, could this be the 7 DAY WARNING?
THE BELOW I GOT FROM 5 DOVES
I want your comments...thx, til that time
Please look at www.spaceweather.com (View archives: November 28, 2006):
“PLANETARY ALIGNMENT: Mark your calendar. On Dec. 8th though 11th, the planets Jupiter, Mercury and Mars will converge, forming a tight triangle in the early-morning sky. All three planets will fit together in the field of view of ordinary binoculars. Don't miss it!
!!! Sky maps: Dec. 8, 9, 10, 11.“ (East at dawn....!!!)
please remember: constellation Libra.... Mercury transit, just only one month ago....
“…Chart 424 shows the position of the Sun and Mercury in the constellation Libra at the time of mid transit. The small white dot in the center-bottom of Sun is Mercury. Libra represents the Price the Messiah Yeshua paid for our salvation, THE PRICE WHICH COVERS. …”
“Mark your calendar....”:
It is Advent Season... The Beginning of a New Church Year...
Sunday December 10, is the Second Sunday....!!
Advent season begins Sunday, December 3, and ends Christmas Eve. Advent means coming or arrival. This could turn out to be an appropriate time for the coming of the Lord in the air at the Pre-Trib Rapture.
In Mt 24:37-42, Jesus said, "as the days of Noe (Noah) were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be....Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left....Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come."
In Gen. 7:4, God told Noah, "For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights." Therefore, we think we might get a 7-day warning before the Rapture. You have found something that just might be our 7-day warning.
Mercury Mars and Jupiter can be seen in a tight triangle in Libra on Saturday, December 9, just a bit ahead of the rising Sun. They will remain very close to one another for seven days, through December 15, which is Kislev 24, 5767. This is the date mentioned in Haggai 2:18,19.
It says, "Consider now from this day and upward, from the four and twentieth day of the ninth month (Kislev 24), even from the day that the foundation (Jesus, I Cor. 3:11) of the LORD'S temple was laid (Jesus was conceived on Kislev 24), consider it. Is the seed (Jesus, Gen. 3:15) yet in the barn? yea (i.e., YES, however), as yet the vine (Jesus), and the fig tree (Israel, Joel 1:6,7), and the pomegranate (other fruit, i.e., Gentiles), and the olive tree (in which Gentiles can be grafted in), hath not brought forth: from this day (i.e., from Kislev 24) will I bless you." This could indicate that the Rapture will take place 6 hours later, at midnight (Mt. 25:6) on Hanukkah, Kislev 25. We will have to wait and see.
Luke 21:25, 28 says, "there shall be SIGNS in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars (lit., constellations); and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring...And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh."
Storms: 11-30 - Cyclone 04P SW Pacific - 12-1 - Cyclone ANITA S Indian - Typhoon DURIAN NW Pacific N Indian
"Typhoon Durian tore through the eastern Philippines on Thursday with winds of up to 139 mph, killing at least 109 people (now several hundred) and cutting off power to thousands of homes"
"Major Snowstorm Hits Plains, Midwest - KANSAS CITY, Mo. - The first major snowstorm of the season blew across the Plains and Midwest on Thursday, grounding hundreds of flights, closing schools, glazing highways and threatening to dump up to a foot of snow on communities that had basked in balmy weather only days earlier" (http://enews.earthlink.net/article/nat?guid=20061130/456fb6d0_3421_1334520061201-1529929105).
Keep watching. Shalom and agape
Note: The transit of Mercury across the Sun on Cheshvan 17 (Nov. 8) sure seems like a sign in the Sun, because that was the date that the 40 days of rain began to fall in Noah's day. The 40 days of rain ended on Kislev 27, the 3rd day of Hannukah this year. Maybe the Rapture will take place Dec. 16, the first day of Hannukah, through the 18th. I hope so.
Bush praises Maliki, rules out Iraq partition
Nov 30, 2006 - AMMAN (Reuters) - President Bush praised Iraqi Prime Minister Nuri al-Maliki as a "strong leader" on Thursday and said he agreed with him that any partition of Iraq would only increase violence.
Incoming e-mail, Re: Please review 'More questions'…..Ezekiel 39:2
> > Turning them “back” and leaving to them only a “sixth part” of their former territory is not referring to their defeat in Israel, but rather to events that precede their invasion of Israel. God’s people [those truly saved] living today have seen the first two parts of this verse fulfilled [or being fulfilled] right before our eyes over the past 15 years.
I think "the sixth part" has been mistranslated in the KJV. There were important MSS discovered after the KJV was completed.
In the Introduction to the Tischendorf New Testament, it says, "The Authorised Version, like Luther's, was made from a Greek text which Erasmus in 1516, and Robert Stephens in 1550, had formed from manuscripts of later date then the tenth century. Whether those manuscripts were athoroughly trustworthy--in other words, whether they exhibited the apostolic original as perfectly as possible--has long been matter of diligent and learned investigation. Since the sixteenth century Greek manuscripts have been discovered of far greater antiquity than those of Erasmus and Stephens; as well as others in Latin, Syriac, Coptic, and Gothic, into which languages the sacred text was translated between the second and fourth centuries...Scholars are much divided as to the readings which most exactly convey the Word of God, but one thing is agreed upon by the majority of those who understand the subject, namely, that the oldest copies approach the original text more nearly than the later ones."
It is deemed wise to confer with three major MSS. "These considerations seem to show that the first place among the three great Manuscripts, both for age and extent, is held by the Sinaitic Codex, the second by the Vatican, and the third by the Alexandrine." The Sinaitic find dates from 1844 and 1859. The Vatican copy dates from 1475. The Alexandrine Codex find dates from 1628.
With e-Sword, I can compare different versions. Eze 39:2 (Geneva) says, "And I will destroy thee and leaue but the sixt part of thee, and will cause thee to come vp from the North partes and will bring thee vpon the mountaines of Israel"
Following in the footsteps of the Geneva Bible, the KJV says, "And I will turn thee back, and leave but the sixth part of thee, and will cause thee to come up from the north parts, and will bring thee upon the mountains of Israel"
However, look at the LITV. "And I will turn you back and lead you on. And I will bring you up from the recesses of the north, and will bring you on the mountains of Israel". Nothing is said about the sixth part.
The JPS says, "and I will turn thee about and lead thee on"
Green's Interlinear says, "And I will turn you back, and lead you on"
Strong's Hebrew Dictionary says, "And I will turn thee back,7725 and leave but the sixth part 8338 of thee"
When we look up H8338, shasha, we find out that there is a strong possibility that the sixth part is not the correct translation. It says, "A primitive root; apparently to annihilate. (Translated by confusion with H8341.): - leave but the sixth part [by confusion with H8341]."
H8341, shashah, is "A denominative from H8337; to sixth or divide into sixths: - give the sixth part."
Here is "Green's Interlinear" English translation from the Hebrew of Eze. 39:4. It says, "You shall fall on the mountains of Israel, you and all your bands, and the people who (are) with you"
How will Gog and his army be inihilated? I think it will happen when the mountain-sized asteroid of Rev. 8:8 will impact the Mediterranean Sea. Rev 8:8 (LITV) says, "And the second angel trumpeted. And as a great mountain burning with fire was thrown into the sea. And the third part of the sea became blood". By the end of the devastation, every soul died in the sea. Rev 16:3 (LITV) says, "And the second angel poured out his bowl onto the sea. And it became blood, as of a dead one, and every soul of life died in the sea."
I take it that Gog and all his army will be killed, but 1/3 of the Israelites will survive. Zech 13:8,9 (LITV) says, "And it shall be in all the land, says Jehovah, two parts in it shall be cut off and perish, but the third shall be left in it. And I will bring the third part through the fire, and I will refine them as silver is refined. And I will try them as gold is tried. They shall call on My name, and I will answer them. I will say, It is My people, and they shall say, Jehovah is my God."
To me, it is easy to see why Israel took their people out of Gaza.
That is for their own good. Zeph. 2:3-7 (LITV) says, "Seek Jehovah, all the meek of the earth who have done His justice; seek righteousness; seek meekness. It may be you shall be hidden in the day of the anger of Jehovah. For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a ruin. They shall drive Ashdod out at the noonday, and Ekron shall be rooted up. Woe to those living in the seacoast, the nation of the Cherethites! The Word of Jehovah is against you, Canaan, the land of the Philistines; I will destroy you so there shall not be an inhabitant. And the seacoast shall be pastures, meadows of shepherds, and folds for the flock. And the coast shall be for the remnant of the house of Judah; they shall feed on them. In the houses of Ashkelon, they shall lie down in the evening, for Jehovah their God shall visit them and return their captivity."
Can you imagine the force of the tsunami that will hit the coast of Israel? Eze 38:19-23 (LITV) says, "And in My jealousy, in the fire of My wrath, I have spoken. Surely, in that day there shall be a great quaking in the land of Israel. And the fish of the sea, and the birds of the heavens, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep on the earth, and all men on the face of the earth, shall quake at My face (the Sign of the Son of Man seen in the sky that day). And the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground. And I shall call a sword against him on all My mountains, declares the Lord Jehovah. Each man's sword shall be against his brother. And I will judge him with a plague and with blood, and an overflowing shower, and hailstones. I will rain fire and brimstone on him, and on his bands, and on the many peoples who are with him. And I will magnify Myself and sanctify Myself. And I will be known in the eyes of the many nations (they will see the Sign of the Son of Man in the sky), and they shall know that I am Jehovah. ."
The mountain will fall in the sea on the Day of the Lord, also called the Day of God's Wrath. Joel 1:15 says, "Alas for the day! For the day of Jehovah is at hand. And it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty."
Joe 2:1 Blow a ram's horn in Zion, and shout an alarm in My holy mountain. Let all those living in the land tremble. For the day of Jehovah approaches; it is near,
Joel 2:2,3 says that will be, "a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness, as the dawn spread out on the mountains, a great and a strong people. There has never been the like, nor shall there ever be again to the years of many generations; a fire devours before it, and a flame burns behind it. The land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them is a desolate wilderness; yea, also there is no escape to them." Agape
What? "Theologian Says (Jesus Not Son Of God)"
Re: MJ Martin (30 Nov 2006)
"Christians Must 'let go' Some Beliefs For Sake of Peace, Theologian Says (Jesus Not Son Of God)"
In my opinion, for a "Theologian" to say, "Jesus Not Son Of God" is foolhardy. There are too many scriptures proving he is the Son of God to ever think otherwise.
1 John 2:22-24 (KJV) says, "Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning."
Isa 7:14 says, "the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name IMMANUEL. "
Mt 1:18,23 says, "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost....Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name EMMANUEL, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US."
Jesus was truly "God with us." II Cor. 5:19 explains in plain words, "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself."
Jesus Christ is the Creator himself. John 1:1-3,14 says, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made....And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of THE ONLY BEGOTTEN OF THE FATHER), full of grace and truth."
Heb 1:1-3 (LITV) says, "In many ways and in various ways of old, God spoke to the fathers IN THE PROPHETS; in these last days He spoke to us IN THE SON, whom He appointed heir of all; through whom He indeed made the ages; who being the shining splendor of His glory, and the express image of His essence, and upholding all things by the Word of His power, having made purification of our sins through Himself, He sat down on the right of the Majesty on high".
Isa. 9:6 (KJV) explains Jesus' dual nature. He is both man and God, the only one of his kind. It says, "For unto us a child is born (inheriting his human nature from his mother), unto us a son is GIVEN (inheriting his deity from his Father): and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and HIS NAME shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, The Prince of Peace."
Prov 30:4 asks, "Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name (YHWH, YAHWEH, YAH), and what is HIS SON'S NAME (YAHSHUA, Y'SHUA, YESHUA, IESOUS, JESUS, IMMANUEL, EMMANUEL, THE MIGHTY GOD, THE EVERLASTING FATHER, THE I AM), if thou canst tell?
The Son of God is the one that has dealt with mankind from the beginning. He was the "Angel of the Lord" that called to Abraham out of Heaven. He was also the Angel of the Lord that appeared to Abraham on Earth.
John 1:18 says, "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." The Son of God is the Angel of the LORD that has appeared to man.
Gen 22:11,12 says, "And the ANGEL OF THE LORD CALLED UNTO HIM OUT OF HEAVEN, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I. And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest GOD, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from ME."
Gen 18:1-3,33 says, "the LORD (YHWH) APPEARED unto him (Abraham) in the plains of Mamre: and he sat in the tent door in the heat of the day; And he lift up his eyes and looked, and, lo, three men (one was actually THE ANGEL OF THE LORD, the pre-incarnate Christ) stood by him: and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the tent door, and bowed himself toward the ground, And said, My Lord, if now I have found favour in thy sight, pass not away, I pray thee, from thy servant...And the LORD (YHWH) went his way, as soon as he had left communing with Abraham".
Ex 3:13,14 says, "Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, THE GOD OF YOUR FATHERS hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is HIS NAME? what shall I say unto them? And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you."
In John 10:30, Jesus said, "I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE."
De 6:4 says, "Hear, O Israel: The LORD (YHWH) our God is one (echad, one united) LORD (YHWH)."
Isa, 44:6 backs that up. It says, "Thus saith the LORD (YHWH) the King of Israel, AND his redeemer the LORD (YHWH) of hosts; I am the first (YHWH King of Israel), AND I am the last (YHWH of hosts, the redeemer); and BESIDE ME THERE IS NO GOD."
Isa. 48:16-18 says, "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I (the preincarnate Christ): and now the Lord GOD (YHWH), and his Spirit (Holy Spirit), hath sent me (the Son of God, the preincarnate Christ). Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer (YHWH of Hosts, the Son of of God), the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD (YHWH) thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go. O that thou hadst hearkened to my (the Preincarnate Christ's) commandments (i.e., at Mt. Sinai)! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea".
In Rev 1:8, Jesus said, "I am Alpha AND Omega, the beginning AND the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty."
In Rev 22:13-16, Jesus said, "I am Alpha AND Omega, the beginning AND the end, the first AND the last. Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie. I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root (YHWH) AND the offspring of David (Jesus)".
I think all Christians "should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints" (Jude 1:3). We "Must (NOT) 'let go' Some Beliefs For Sake of Peace". I know that without a doubt, JESUS IS THE SON OF GOD. Agape
Security Council Welcomes Nepal Pact
UNITED NATIONS - The Security Council on Friday warmly welcomed the PEACE AGREEMENT between Nepal's government and communist rebels, and endorsed a mission to pave the way for U.N. help in implementing the historic accord and preparing for elections.
My reply to Kay's post on Five Doves site, Re: "Redemption and the Seven Seals" correction
Was there an eclipse during the Crucifixion?
Kay mentioned that someone picked 33 AD for the Crucifixion because there was an eclipse in 33 AD. I assume that they were looking for a Solar Eclipse, because of the supernatural darkness. However, Passover is at Full Moon. A Solar eclipse is impossible at that time. The only eclipse possible at Full Moon is a Lunar Eclipse, when Earth's shadow falls across the Moon.
The only eclipse possible at the Dark of the Moon is a Solar eclipse, when the Moon moves in front of the Sun. It is easy to remember, because the Moon is always dark as it moves across the Sun during an eclipse. That is because the Moon's light comes from the Sunlight shining on it, and at that time, the Moon's backside is facing the Sun.
A Solar eclipse is impossible at Full Moon, and Fred Espenak has charted the Lunar Eclipses. I copied those that took place in 30 to 33 AD. None were at Passover, as I expected.
30 May 06 03:18
30 Jun 04 10:03
30 Nov 28 20:20
31 Apr 25 20:11
31 Oct 19 03:13
32 Apr 14 09:05
32 Oct 07 12:47
33 Apr 03 14:47
33 Sep 27 03:49
I think the Crucifixion was Thursday, April 6, 30 AD. It is the only date that fits all criteria. The darkness was supernatural.
Incoming e-mail, Re: Crucifixion date
I agree that April 7, year 30, is the correct Crucifixion date. The problem some have with this has to do with the birth date. Most people never consider that the age given (30) when Jesus began ministry could have been based on conception rather than birth. Western reckoning was traditionally from birth but Hebrew age reckoning was traditionally from conception, 281 days before birth.
In a related reference, historic Indian records of Jesus' sojourn in India say that he returned to Judea at age 29. (According to these records, the reason he left Judea is that his parents were contracting marriage for him, as was mandated by custom; so he planned a leave-of-absence business trip to India with his Uncle.) I refer to this detail as support for the 29-year-age concept of Jesus. Blessings
I meant to say that the Crucifixion was on Thursday, April 6, 30 AD. I should be able to remember April 6, our son, David, was born on that day, but somehow the 7th crept in. I didn't catch it until the next day.
How do you prove that the "Hebrew age reckoning was traditionally from conception, 281 days before birth"? I have heard that a child was called one year old the whole first year. Is there a connection? Agape
Gen. Assembly okays 6 pro-Palestinian resolutions
AP - The General Assembly approved six pro-Palestinian resolutions over US and Israeli objections, culminating the annual UN debate aimed at showing the world body's solidarity with Palestinian demands for an independent homeland.
A Comet plunged into the Sun, but I didn't find the movie
if another date check archives
DEATH PLUNGE: Yesterday, the Solar and Heliospheric Observatory (SOHO) caught a comet plunging toward the sun. It went in--but not out again. The sungrazing comet disintegrated like an ice cube in an oven. See the movie: large, small.
Lunar Leonid Strikes
Dec. 1, 2006: Meteoroids are smashing into the Moon a lot more often than anyone expected.
That's the tentative conclusion of Bill Cooke, head of NASA's Meteoroid Environment Office, after his team observed two Leonids hitting the Moon on Nov. 17, 2006.
Re: How rare was the transit of Mercury on Nov. 8?< 2006
"Transits are very rare astronomical events. In the case of Mercury, there are on average thirteen transits each century. A transit of Mercury occurs only if the planet is in inferior conjunction with the Sun (between Earth and Sun) and is also crossing the through Earth's orbital plane (the Ecliptic)."
"Reply to Marilyn Agee re Lunar Eclipse on Passover A.D. 33"
Bonnie Gaunt (4 Dec 2006)
You are right, there could be no Solar Eclipse on Passover in A.D. 33 (or
any other Passover) because Passover is always at the Full Moon. There was, however, a Lunar eclipse that day, and it is one of the evidences that the year A.D. 33 is the correct date for the crucifixion of Jesus. This Lunar eclipse can be found at the U.S. Naval Observatory website at the following web address:
This eclipse occurred at 3:00 in the afternoon Grenwich Time on April 3,
A.D. 33 (Julian calendar). How appropriate that at 3:00 in the afternoon,
Jerusalem time, Jesus breathed out his last breath and cried, "It is
finished." The shadow of the earth passing across the moon was a powerful
symbol of the fact that Jesus, by his death, put an end to the old law
covenant and established the new covenant. The Apostle Paul makes this very clear in Hebrews 9 and 10 (and, yes, I fully believe that Paul wrote the book of Hebrews). The moon was still in eclipse for 17 minutes when it arose over Jerusalem that night -- early enough for all to see. Bonnie
"The first table below gives the Julian calendar dates and Greenwich times of the astronomical vernal equinox for the years 25 BCE to 38 CE inclusive. The second table gives, for these years, the Julian calendar dates and Greenwich times of the astronomical Full Moons which occurred on or after the date of the equinox, and the dates and times of the astronomical New Moons on or preceding, and after, the date of the equinox....
30 April 6 8 p.m. Thu.
31 March 27 11 a.m. Tue.
32 April 14 9 a.m. Mon.
33 April 3 3 p.m. Fri."
The above are the listed Full Moons for 30-33 AD. Since the shadow of the Earth does not fall on every Full Moon, these may, or may not, be Lunar Eclipse dates, but as you know, there was a Lunar Eclipse on April 3, 33 AD.
Fred Espenak has cataloged the Lunar eclipses for NASA at:
30 May 06 03:18
30 Jun 04 10:03
30 Nov 28 20:20
31 Apr 25 20:11
31 Oct 19 03:13
32 Apr 14 09:05
32 Oct 07 12:47
33 Apr 03 14:47
33 Sep 27 03:49
I think April 6, 30 AD was the date of the Crucifixion. The Full Moon was not until 8 PM. Jesus died about 3 PM on Thursday, the "preparation of the passover" (John 19:14). Friday, Nisan 14, Passover, started two hours before the Full Moon at 8 PM.
> > There was, however, a Lunar eclipse that day, and it is one of the evidences that the year A.D. 33 is the correct date for the crucifixion of Jesus.
> > The moon was still in eclipse for 17 minutes when it arose over Jerusalem that night -- early enough for all to see.
I can't see how a Lunar Eclipse at night could determine the date of the Crucifixion. Darkness at night was normal. The supernatural darkness during the Crucifixion was from noon to 3 PM in the daytime. Mt. 27:45 says, "Now from the sixth hour (noon) there was darkness over all the land unto the ninth hour" (3 PM, i.e., about when Jesus died).
Preparation of the Passover was on Thursday, April 6, 30 AD. To me, it fits all criteria for the Crucifixion.
(1) Jesus was born on Tishri 1, 3757 in 5 BC. It was probably Sept. 4.
(2) Herod died about March 18, 4 BC.
(3) Jesus was baptised when 30 years old near Tishri 1 in the 15th year of Tiberius (26 AD) (Luke 3:1). Tiberius became Co-Rex in 12 AD. He was literally Sole-Rex over Judea. Augustus was busy in other parts of the realm. Coins minted in 13 AD have both the heads of Tiberius and Augustus on them.
(4) The first Passover of Jesus' ministry was when the Temple had been under construction 46 years (27 AD) (John 2:20). Construction began in 20/19 BC.
(5) The four Passovers of Jesus' ministry were in 27, 28, 29 and 30 AD.
Pro and Con 1308 Or Return
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