Pro and Con 1313

Posted 1-18-07

Was the little girl actually an angel?

Re: More on the Wal-Mart encounter, byJim Bramlett

Thanks for sharing the message given by the little girl. I hope it is right. However, it could have been given her by an angel or by the Holy Spirit without her being an angel herself.

> > Some might say that all angels in the Bible are male, but that is not necessarily so. See Zechariah 5:9. My studies of angels conclude that they can take on any form they desire, or need, for the mission God gave them.

I agree that it seems possible that angels can take on any form and inhabit any body. However, we shouldn't forget that all references to angels themselves in the Bible are in the masculine gender.

The big question here is this. Are the women in Zech 5:5-11 angels?

The passage is very symbolic. It says, "Then the angel that talked with me went forth, and said unto me, Lift up now thine eyes, and see what is this that goeth forth. And I said, What is it? And he said, This is an ephah (largest wheat measure, i.e., largest Christian church; Mt. 13:38) that goeth forth. He said moreover, THIS IS THEIR RESEMBLANCE THROUGH ALL THE EARTH (i.e., it is the World Christian Church) . And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a WOMAN (i.e., a certain religious group) that sitteth in the midst of the ephah (the World Church). And he said, This is wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof. Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out TWO WOMEN (i.e., two religious groups, could be Protestants and Catholics), and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like (symbolic language) the wings of a stork (symbolizing flight): and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven. Then said I to the angel that talked with me, Whither do these bear the ephah (World Church)? And he said unto me, To build it an house in the land of Shinar (Babylon) and it shall be established, and set there upon her own base" (the foundation of the Tower of Babel).

The Tower of Babel was built in the land of Shinar (i.e., literal Babylon) (Gen. 11:2), not America, as some think. Dan. 1:1,2 agrees. It says, "In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah came Nebuchadnezzar king of BABYLON unto Jerusalem, and besieged it. And the Lord gave Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, with part of the vessels of the house of God; and he carried them into THE LAND OF SHINAR to the house of his god".

Rev. 17:3-5 also speaks of this woman. It says, "So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness (lit., desert, i.e., Babylon): and I saw a WOMAN sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the WOMAN was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH." The MOTHER, or beginning, of this harlot religious group was at the Tower of Babel, where the name of blasphemy, Pontifex Maximus, was first used.

I think these women stand for religious groups, not literal angels. Agape

Temple Aqueduct and Ritual Bath Excavated Opposite Temple Mount

by Ezra HaLevi, 1-15-07

Excavations being conducted opposite (west of) the Western Wall Plaza have uncovered an aqueduct that brought water to the Holy Temple, as well as a ritual bath from that period.

The never-before-excavated area is situated behind the Western Wall police station, adjacent to the plaza where millions of worshipers and tourists come each year to visit the Western Wall and Temple Mount.

The new archaeological find uncovers a missing link in the ancient water system, known as the "Lower Aqueduct." This system channeled water from Solomon’s Pools near Bethlehem (located several miles south of Jerusalem) directly to the national focal point of Jewish worship - the Temple Mount....

Haifa Company Transforms Rocks to Fuel

Jan 15, '07 / 25 Tevet 5767
by Hana Levi Julian

An Israeli company has patented a way to turn oil shale rock into high quality oil and natural gas - a project that may bring jobs to the Negev and low-cost energy to the Jewish state.

The “Hom-Tov” process, brainchild of A.F.S.K. – Hom Tov CEO Yisrael Feldman, involves mixing the bitumen residue left over after refineries produce crude oil together with oil shale rock....

My comment

This could be the way to get the oil out of the large deposits of oil shale in the United States.

Moon Has Iron Core, Lunar-Rock Study Says

Brian Handwerk, Jan 11, 2007

Deep down, the moon may be more like Earth than scientists ever thought.

A new moon-rock study suggests the satellite has an iron core. The findings add weight to the theory that the moon formed from debris thrown off when a Mars-size object collided with a young Earth (related: "Moon Derives From Earth, Space Object, Study Says" [August 8, 2003])....

The leading moon-creation theory among astronomers is known as the "giant impact" or "big whack" theory.

An object about the size of Mars—half the size of Earth—slammed into our planet very early in its formation, the theory says.

"This impactor hit, and everything was thrown every which way," Taylor said. "Material was shattered, melted, vaporized, and thrown out into orbit. Some of that material condensed and aggregated into the moon."

It's believed that some of the impactor's remains became part of the moon, as did large parts of early Earth's mantle (the layer between core and crust), which were hurled spaceward.

Rock samples from NASA's Apollo 15 and Apollo 17 moon missions of the early 1970s have now shed more light on the moon's origins, according to Taylor and colleagues' study, to be published in the tomorrow's issue of the journal Science.

My comment

I think a piece of Satan's planet Rahab hit Earth and dug the Moon material out of the Pacific Basin.

Isa. 51:9 (JPS) says, "Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD (i.e., Yhwh of Hosts, the Redeemer); awake, as in the days of old, the generations of ancient times. Art thou not it that hewed (split) Rahab (meaning proud) in pieces, that pierced the dragon (i.e., Satan)?

My reply to an incoming email from Finland, Re: Abaddon in II Thess 2:6?

Good to hear from you.

Who is Abaddon in II Thess. 2:6?

I think Abaddon is actually Satan, the destroyer. He is "the angel of the bottomless pit." He will come up out of the bottomless pit Mid-Trib and enter into the False Prophet during the Great Tribulation, the last half of the 7 years.

Satan will be cast into the Earth Mid-Trib. Rev. 12:7-9 says, "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels, And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven. And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and SATAN, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out INTO THE EARTH, and his angels (i.e., demons) were cast out with him."

Satan will immediately come up out of the bottomless pit and enter into the False Prophet. Rev. 17:8-11 says, "The beast (great red dragon, Satan) that thou sawest was (in Judas Iscariot, the 1st son of perdition), and is not (in man now); and shall ASCEND OUT OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT, and go into perdition (the False Prophet, the 2nd son of perdition): and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was (in Judas Iscariot), and is not (in man now), and yet is (exists). And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains (world empires), on which the woman (the Mystery Religion of Babylon) sitteth. And there are seven kings: (at the time of the Rapture, v. 14) five are fallen (Babel I, Babylon II, Media-Persia, Greece and Imperial Rome), and one is (Ecclesiastical Rome), and the other (Babylon III) is not yet come; and when he (the False Prophet) cometh, he must continue a short space (the Great Tribulation, which is shortened). And the beast (SATAN) that was (in Judas Iscariot), and is not (in man now), even he is the eighth (i.e., the tail of the dragon), and is of the seven (influences the 7 heads), and goeth into perdition" (the False Prophet).

Isa 9:15 The ancient and honourable (1st beast of Rev. 13, 6th head of the great red dragon), he is the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies (the False Prophet, the 7th head), he is the tail" (of the great red dragon, because Satan enters into him).

Rev 9:11 says, "And they (the demons that came up out of the bottomless pit when an asteroid opened it, forming the Lake of Fire) had a king (Satan) over them, which is THE ANGEL OF THE BOTTOMLESS PIT, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon (meaning destroyer), but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon" (meaning destroyer).

II Thess. 2:1-9 says, "Now we (Paul, Silvanius and Timotheus) beseech you, brethren (believers), by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our (i.e., including the dead in Christ) gathering together unto him (i.e., at the Pre-Trib Rapture), That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ (day of the Lord, as in most major MSS) is at hand. Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day (day of the Pre-Wrath Rapture and Day of God's Wrath) shall not come, except there come a falling away (departure, i.e., the Pre-Trib Rapture) first, and that MAN OF SIN be revealed (i.e., second), the SON OF PERDITION (the Satan-possessed False Prophet); Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God (Mid-Trib), shewing himself that he is God. Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what (the Holy Spirit in believers) withholdeth that he (the False Prophet, the son of perdition) might be revealed in his time (the Tribulation). For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he (the Holy Spirit) who now letteth will let (Old English for hindereth will hinder), until he (the Holy Spirit) be taken out of the way (i.e., at the Pre-Trib Rapture). And then (i.e., after the Pre-Trib Rapture) shall that Wicked (the False Prophet) be revealed (when he strengthens the peace covenant of Dan. 9:27), whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: Even him, (the False Prophet) whose coming is after the working of SATAN with all power and signs and lying wonders" (as in Rev. 13:11-18).

Who did Bryan Huie think Abaddon is?

> > WHO IS THE "DESTROYER"? Bryan T. Huie, December 27, 1997, Revised: January 7, 2006

> > REVELATION 9:11 They have as king over them, the angel of the Abyss; his name in Hebrew is Abaddon, and in the Greek he has the name Apollyon. (NASU)
> > Abaddon and Apollyon both mean "destroyer." Who is this ruling spirit called the "Destroyer," who is released from the Abyss during God's wrath on mankind in the last days of this age? Does the Bible mention this being anywhere else?

> > The true identity of the "Destroyer" has long been misunderstood. In this article, I will attempt to piece together all the relevant Scriptures to show who Abaddon/Apollyon really is and what his role will be in end-time prophecy.

> > What does the angel mean when he says that "five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come"? Again, the angel is giving John a time sensitive clue. As of 95 CE, five of the symbolic heads (kingdoms) of the beast had already fallen from power. Those five were:
> > (1) EGYPT
> > (2) ASSYRIA
> > (3) BABYLON
> > (5) GREECE

The kingdom in power at the time the Apocalypse was written was:

> > (6) ROME

I think the seven world empires are:
1. Babel I
2. Babylon II
3. Media-Persia
4. Greece
5. Imperial Rome
6. Ecclesiastical Rome (the one that is in power at the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture)
7. Babylon III (the one that is to come in the Tribulation)

The Revelation of Jesus Christ is a dramatic miracle play. The setting is the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture. It is as if Jesus stood on the pinnacle of the Rapture and looked bacward and forward to tell us what he saw. He told John to " Write the things which thou hast seen (before the Rapture), and the things which are (at the time of the Rapture), and the things which shall be hereafter" (after the Rapture) (Rev. 1:19).

Rev. 17 is a view at the time of the Rapture, because v. 14 says, "he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that ARE WITH HIM are called, and chosen, and faithful."

> > Abaddon Is The "Beast" Who Ascends From The Abyss
> > In Revelation 9:1-11, Abaddon is clearly identified as the king of the evil spirits released from the Abyss. This fact identifies him throughout the rest of the book of Revelation. Twice specifically, and once symbolically, Abaddon is referred to as the "beast" who is to come up out of the Abyss:

> > REVELATION 11:7 When they [the two witnesses] have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up out of the Abyss will make war with them, and overcome them and kill them. (NASU)

> > REVELATION 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is to ascend from the bottomless pit and go to perdition . . . (RSV)

> > There is one other Scripture that enigmatically mentions the release of Abaddon from the Abyss. This obscure reference is found in II Thessalonians 2, where Paul discusses the "man of sin." We'll look at this passage in depth to truly grasp the significance of what Paul is saying: II THESSALONIANS 2:1 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. (NKJV) > > Here, Paul is talking about the return of Christ. He tells the Thessalonian church not to be deceived if someone tells them that Christ has already returned, because some definite events have to occur before that event will happen. The first of those events is the "falling away" (Gr. apostasia) from the truth. Another event Paul says must take place is the appearance of the "man of sin," who will attempt to usurp the power of God.

> > The following translation of verses 6 and 7 clarifies this passage:

> > II THESSALONIANS 2:6 And you now know the thing [the Abyss] that is holding back [Abaddon], that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only the thing [the Abyss] which now restrains [Abaddon] will continue to do so until out of the midst [of the Abyss] he comes. (literal translation)

> > REVELATION 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition. 12 The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have received no kingdom as yet, but they receive authority for one hour as kings with the beast. 13 These are of one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast. (NKJV) > > The beast is not one of the seven, he is the eighth; yet clearly he is of the seven. That is, he is given his authority by Satan (Rev. 13:4), just as the seven heads were. Apparently Abaddon will install three kings to replace those he "plucked out by the roots" (Dan. 7:8), and with the support of those ten kings (Rev. 17:12-13), he will become the ruler of the entire earth in the ultimate and final realization of Satan's governmental system.

> > Revelation 13:6-7 shows that Abaddon and his spiritual forces of evil are permitted to fight against the holy angels and temporarily defeat them. This defeat will allow Abaddon to occupy the courtyard of the temple in heaven and proclaim himself to be "God."

> > Most people interpret the "temple of God" in II Thessalonians 2:4 as either a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem, or figuratively as the Church. Yet the Bible clearly shows that the tabernacle, and later the temple in Jerusalem, were earthly types patterned after the heavenly antetype (Exo. 25:9; Heb. 8:2, 5; 9:11, 23). It appears from the Scriptures that Abaddon's presence in the courtyard of the heavenly temple could be the abomination of desolation spoken of by Daniel and Christ. This heavenly desolation will likely have an earthly counterpart in Jerusalem (Luke 21:20).

> > DANIEL 8:16 And I heard a man's voice between the banks of the Ulai, who called, and said, "Gabriel, make this man understand the vision." 17 So he came near where I stood, and when he came I was afraid and fell on my face; but he said to me, "Understand, son of man, that the vision refers to the time of the end." 18 Now, as he was speaking with me, I was in a deep sleep with my face to the ground; but he touched me, and stood me upright. 19 And he said, "Look, I am making known to you what shall happen in the latter time of the indignation; for at the appointed time the end shall be. . . . 23 And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors have reached their fullness, a king [Abaddon] shall arise, having fierce features, who understands sinister schemes. 24 His power shall be mighty, but not by his own power; he shall destroy fearfully, and shall prosper and thrive; he shall destroy the mighty, and also the holy people. 25 Through his cunning he shall cause deceit to prosper under his rule; and he shall exalt himself in his heart. He shall destroy many in their prosperity. He shall even rise against the Prince of princes; but he shall be broken without human means. (NKJV)

> > Gabriel clearly states that the events Daniel saw in his vision will occur at "the time of the end." At that time, when transgressors have reached their full measure, Abaddon will come on the scene. His power and authority will come from Satan (Rev. 13:4). The "Destroyer" will live up to his name; he will destroy the mighty and the holy ones (both the saints and the holy angels), as well as those humans who oppose him. He will delude himself because of pride in his accomplishment, thinking and even proclaiming that he is "God" (II The. 2:4). He will oppose Messiah, the "Prince of princes," but he will eventually be defeated "without human means," as we will see in the next section.

> > Let's look at one other passage from Isaiah 14 that explicitly shows the defeat and fate of Abaddon. This Scripture is commonly thought to refer to Satan. However, if we look at the context and put away our preconceived ideas, it becomes apparent that Abaddon, not Satan, is the subject:

> > ISAIAH 14:1 The LORD will have compassion on Jacob and will again choose Israel, and will set them in their own land, and aliens will join them and will cleave to the house of Jacob. 2 And the peoples will take them and bring them to their place, and the house of Israel will possess them in the LORD's land as male and female slaves; they will take captive those who were their captors, and rule over those who oppressed them. 3 When the LORD has given you rest from your pain and turmoil and the hard service with which you were made to serve, 4 you will take up this taunt against the king of Babylon: "How the oppressor has ceased, the insolent fury ceased! 5 The LORD has broken the staff of the wicked, the scepter of rulers, 6 that smote the peoples in wrath with unceasing blows, that ruled the nations in anger with unrelenting persecution. 7 The whole earth is at rest and quiet; they break forth into singing. 8 The cypresses rejoice at you, the cedars of Lebanon, saying, 'Since you were laid low, no hewer comes up against us.' 9 Sheol beneath is stirred up to meet you when you come, it rouses the shades to greet you, all who were leaders of the earth; it raises from their thrones all who were kings of the nations. 10 All of them will speak and say to you: 'You too have become as weak as we! You have become like us!' 11 Your pomp [ga'on, "arrogancy"] is brought down to Sheol, the sound of your harps; maggots are the bed beneath you, and worms are your covering. (RSV)

> > The scene is set in verses 1 through 3. This is the time when God has given rest to His people; this is the Millennium, when the Israelites will be back in their land and Yeshua will be ruling from Jerusalem. Verse 4 identifies the subject of the passage: Abaddon, the "king of Babylon." Verses 5 through 8 show that God has broken the power of this king who had oppressively ruled the whole earth. Verse 9 shows that Abaddon has been cast into sheol. Sheol is used figuratively for the abode of those who are dead; in this instance, those wordly leaders who were under this king are specifically mentioned. Verse 10 shows them symbolically exulting in the fact that Abaddon, although at one time extremely powerful, has suffered the same fate they did. Verse 11 reaffirms that this arrogant king has been delivered to sheol. It's clear that Abaddon is no longer around during the Millennium.

> > ISAIAH 14:12 "How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star [Helel], son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low! 13 You said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far north; 14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High.' 15 But you are brought down to Sheol, to the depths of the Pit. 16 Those who see you will stare at you, and ponder over you: 'Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms, 17 who made the world like a desert and overthrew its cities, who did not let his prisoners go home?' 18 All the kings of the nations lie in glory, each in his own tomb; 19 but you are cast out, away from your sepulchre, like a loathed untimely birth, clothed with the slain, those pierced by the sword, who go down to the stones of the Pit, like a dead body trodden under foot. 20 You will not be joined with them in burial, because you have destroyed your land, you have slain your people. "May the descendants of evildoers nevermore be named!" (RSV)

> > In verse 12, this dead king is given a name: Helel. Some translations render this Hebrew name as Lucifer, which is Latin for "light-bearer." However, the real meaning of Helel is subject to conjecture by scholars. The Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament says that the hithpael form of "hll means 'pride oneself,' often with overtones of 'brag, boast'" (vol. III, p. 409). That meaning fits nicely with the depiction of the arrogant king in this passage of Scripture.

> > In this prophecy, Abaddon, although he conquered the nations and even heaven for a time, has fallen from heaven and been cut down to the earth. In verses 13 and 14, we see that Abaddon decided to ascend above the clouds and the stars into heaven. He wanted to establish his throne there, at the very place of God's heavenly temple, the mount of assembly. He wanted nothing less than to rule in place of God. Yet verses 15 through 20 show that he will be brought down to sheol, his power destroyed. The theme of this entire passage is the overthrow of the arrogant king, Abaddon, who wanted to be like the Most High God.

> > After the crushing defeat of Abaddon's forces, Satan, the power behind Abaddon's throne, will be captured also. He will be locked in the Abyss during the 1,000 year reign of the Messiah on earth

> > Conclusion

> > While some end-time prophecies of the Bible are still not clear, events will not occur as has commonly been expected. The "beast" who ascends out of the Abyss during the "last days" will be an angelic king named Abaddon. He, with his army of fallen angels and demons, will overpower the human global government and take over as ruler of the earth. Abaddon will even conquer the holy sanctuary in heaven and gain victory over the angelic hosts of heaven. Nevertheless, his rule will be for a limited time only; after 3 1/2 years, God will take his authority away. Abaddon will marshal his forces and attempt to finally destroy God's people, but he will be unsuccessful. He will end up in the lake of fire as Yeshua the Messiah establishes the Kingdom of God at the beginning of the Millennium.

Abaddon, Satan, will NEVER "conquer the holy sanctuary in heaven". The only angels he is over are the fallen angels, the demons. His only sanctuaries in the heavens that we are told about are on his planet Rahab and his asteroid Wormwood.

Isa. 14:12-15 says, "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer (i.e., Satan), son of the morning (his planet, Rehab, now the Asteroid Belt, was a morning star)! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High (Christ, Isa. 44:6). Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit."

Isa. 51:9 says, "Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD (i.e., Christ); awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut (lit., split) Rahab (Satan's planet), and wounded the dragon (Satan)?"

Isa 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here? (Babylon III) and whom hast thou here (the Satan-possessed False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he (Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock (the asteroid named Wormwood (Rev. 8:11)? Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. He will surely violently turn and toss thee like a ball into a large country (not tiny Israel): there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down."

Rev. 18:21 says, "And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone (i.e., the asteroid Wormwood), and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon (Iraq) be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all." Agape

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