Pro and Con 132, Uploaded 6-19-98

Incoming Email

Marilyn wrote:
> The trumpet for Rapture I is "the trump of God" (I Thess. 4:16). It is the
> first trump. The trumpet for Rapture II is "the last trump" (I Cor.15:52).

Does this mean the first trump after the seventh "seal", that is the first trump of Rev8:7?

I've not heard of the rapture one and rapture two before.

My reply

No, the two trumps of God are not the same as the seven trumpet judgments that are sounded by angels.

Rapture I is found in I Thess. 4:16 and Rev. 4:1. Rapture II is for the Tribulation saints. It is found in I Cor. 15:52 and Rev. 7:14. The first one is called the Pre-Trib Rapture, the second the Pre-Wrath Rapture.

The first takes place in Rev. 4:1, then the Tribulation starts in Rev. 6. The chapter ends with "the great day of his wrath is come." Then in chapter 7, we see the Tribulation saints in Heaven. All this is before the seven trumpet judgments of Rev. 8.

> >FWD: "Hal Lindsey in his teaching of the rapture has for years been
> >avoiding the "last trump"(1 Cor 15:52).
> >
> >"Hal simply has no reasonable answer knowing this trump represents the
> >seventh and final trumpet of Revelations at the end of the tribulations just
> >prior to the Kingdom being fully established.
> >And he has no reasonable Scripture to offer as proof."

My reply

The seventh trumpet of Rev. is sounded by an angel (Rev. 8:2). The trumpet for Rapture I is "the trump of God" (I Thess. 4:16). It is the first trump. The trumpet for Rapture II is "the last trump" (I Cor. 15:52).

Types of these two trumpets are found in Nu. 10:2-4: "Make thee two trumpets of silver...that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. And when they shall blow with them (both), ALL the assembly shall assemble themselves to thee at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation. And if thy blow but with one trumpet, then the princes, which are heads of the thousands of Israel (i.e., the elders, 12 patriarchs and 12 apostles), shall gather themselves unto thee."

If, as you think, the seventh trumpet judgment was the call for the saints, the saints would have to go through the Day of God's Wrath. Surely you know that is not true.

Incoming Email

I am writing in response to the pastor and others who are using 2Thess as their reason for not accepting a pre-trib rapture.

They seem to all accuse you of only giving a "cursory" glance at this scripture. It seems to me that they all need to take the plank out of their eyes before they try to remove the splinter from yours.

They use the following to make their point:
(2 Th 2:3)  Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

To me, "the falling away first", is reference to the church that will "fall away" from the truth of the Word, such as denying the acceptance of Christ's blood as the way to salvation or blanket approval of homosexuals without repentance of sins.

If these pastors would give a cursory look at the remainder of the chapter, they might see the truth.

(2 Th 2:5)  Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

(2 Th 2:6)  And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

(2 Th 2:7)  For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

(2 Th 2:8)  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

(2 Th 2:9)  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

Verse 7:  The Holy Spirit will be taken away (along with the saints), THEN that Wicked will be revealed.

The remainder of the chapter is a warning:

(2 Th 2:8)  And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

(2 Th 2:9)  Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,

(2 Th 2:10)  And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

(2 Th 2:11)  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

(2 Th 2:12)  That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

This is the way I see it.

My reply

Thanks for your input. (I'll put it out for comments.)

Incoming Email

I do not know if the Rapture will occur this weekend or not. If it does, Bless God, I will be ready....and I owe a great amount of gratitude to you for that. If it does not occur, and once again.....we are left to face the world once again, it really doesn't matter.

I suppose that God is impressing upon me that He is Sovereign.......and that HE is in control. What I do know is that every day that HE delays.......thousands are coming to Christ. Even though I want to go so badly - my heart actually aches with a desire to be forever in the presence of God - it is far more important to reach the lost to Christ......than to deliver me from this world that I have no desire to be in.

Does this make any sense at all ? I pray that you will do me a tremendous favor. If Christ should delay.......please continue your work and your website. It is encouraging to read it whenever I have a chance.

Hope to see you Saturday.........in Paradise !!!!!

My reply

I am in this for the long haul if that is what it takes. Hope it is soon, though.

Incoming Email

I read your website often and am blessed by your faithful spirit. Keep up the good work!!!!! God IS faithful, and His timing is NEVER late!!! Don't be discouraged by the negative emails you get. "And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for His name." ~ Acts 5:41 ~ ;-)

What a verse!

Incoming Email

May the Lord bless your faithfulness in presenting the Good News of every saint's 'Blessed Hope'. God is truly a great, merciful, and loving God!...

I bought End of the Age maybe 6 months ago, almost by accident, as the title just caught my eye as I was walking past a rack in Barnes & Noble. I hadn't even finished it and was already talking with many others about it. The Lord has always used prophesy as his 'hook in my heart', beginning in earnest some 25 years ago, just after I was married. At that time, I was in a local park with some other believers, and was reading a small magazine/booklet entitled 'Jesus Christ - Solid Rock' which was a collection of articles by people like Pat Boone, Kathryn Kuhlman, David Wilkerson, and others, about end-time prophesy. I had one of those 'scales dropping from the eyes' experiences, where in a single moment all the scattered bits and pieces of my prior learning with regard to God's truth suddenly 'fell into place'. I was so shocked in that moment that all I could do was sit and mutter "It's all true!" From that time to this, it has been one revelation and confirmation after another (at least when I was listening...).

In any event, I found your website maybe 6 weeks ago, and have been praising God ever since. I've printed many of the articles and, after having my wife read them, have given them to others to read. Most folks, even long-time Christians, are in total shock. One of my fellow Deacons received the information with some excitement, then described a "growing feeling of dread" which resulted, out of a sense of not being ready. My wife also became depressed, and mostly for the same reason. I have always been the zealot in the family, and have often been viewed as 'eccentric' (mild term) for my views on The Rapture. I was caught up in the '40 years since 1948' thing in 1988, then again in the '30 years since 1967' thing in 1997, and everything else in between. So the hearers near me have grown tired of having someone crying 'Wolf'. Nonetheless, after studying your book, and combing your web site, there has been a 'falling into place' of all these details not unlike that earlier experience that I described, and so I'm back out there telling everyone who will listen. In addition, there has been a 'quickening' of my spirit that happened in the days just prior to Easter, and I've been faithfully confessing sin, avoiding old sins, and forgiving every debt that I can think of. I thank you deeply for the years of scholarly effort that have gone into your pulished works, and thanks also for being faithful to the voice of our Lord....
Many have asked you about the Ron Wyatt claims. Your response has been that you "wonder how a mercy seat made in one piece with the two cherubim can be only 18" from the ceiling of the cave". I've been an Algebra/Geometry teacher for the last 19 years. My take on his description was this: Imagine a chamber in which is sitting a large stone container in which the Ark is resting. The top of this container is 18" from the ceiling of the chamber. Then the chamber is filled with stone rubble up to the top of the container, leaving an 18" space between it and the ceiling. At this point, years later, he crawled in on top of the rubble (through this 18" space) to find the container lid cracked. The Ark of the Covenant (including the mercy seat and the cherubim, of course) is down inside the container. The blood which dripped down from the ceiling didn't stop at the top of the container, but continued on downward within the container to land on the mercy seat below. Whether this is what Mr. Wyatt actually described, I don't know, but it is what I imagined from the description given.

Would you clarify the whole "Pearls before swine" issue? To whom should this kind of information be given. Believers only? Too late for unbelievers? Can back-slidden Christians make it right in a week?

Thanks again, Marilyn, and I hope to see you REAL SOON!, Love in Christ

My reply

I don't get that many emails a day, but have so many I have no hope of answering them all.

Non-believers must come to Christ before they can understand deeper things, but a casual mention that there is not much time left in which to make up their mind just might make them listen and make a decision. It is worth a try. You'll know who the swine are. The Holy Spirit will show you....

Incoming Email

I looked around for your books, and checked out B. Dalton, as you suggested. I found Revelations 2000 in the "Inspirational" section. Oddly enough (and I'm always looking around in bookstores and I've never really noticed this before), there were other books on Bible prophecy by notable authors. Not a huge selection like you'd find at Berean, but there were several different titles available. I've never noticed any books on Bible prophecy in secular bookstores before, though perhaps I just didn't see them.

It could be a (small) sign that the time is very near. God is making sure that there is information for those to find that were not taken with the Bride of Christ. I thought it was interesting, anyway. Admittedly, I don't haunt secular bookstores as often as I used to.

I'm about half-way through Revelations 2000, currently, and am finding it enlightening. I'm going to leave it in a "care package" for any family members that will not make "the cut" (my Dad and step-mom don't seem to like anything spiritual, so I'm not sure how to stir up interest in Christianity). With the care package will be a letter explaining my disappearance, books on Bible prophecy (including yours), and articles from the internet that I find useful and Biblically sound. If you wouldn't mind saying a quick prayer for my dad and step-mom, I'd appreciate it. Their names are ----.

I'd like to tell you about a dream I had a while back. It was not too strange of a dream, considering my studies in Bible prophecy, but the vantage point of the dream was interesting (something that just recently came to mind). I was watching a comet approach earth. It was large and had a long tail. It was heading for a large body of water (not sure how I knew this, as the comet was still a ways off, but I did). What is odd about the dream was that I was watching it from BEHIND. I was in outer space, behind the comet. The dream was also in color, which is somewhat unusual, but not as unusual as the vantage point.

This is not the first "apocalyptic" dream I've had. It may or may not be from God, but some of these dreams defy adequate description. Maybe I shouldn't eat before going to bed. :-)

Keep up the good work on your web page. I enjoy checking it out each day to see if anything new has been added.

Whether Jesus comes for us at the end of this month or in several years, I appreciate all your effort. I'm more "awake" today because of your page (though I've always been watching, I'm now much better prepared to meet my Lord and Savior. The sense of urgency God planted in me was fading a bit, but it is now back full-force! Thanks again

My reply

Thanks for the interesting information.

Incoming Email

We are visiting some friends in France and I was looking throught the European addition of Newsweek dated 18 May 1998 and guess whose email address was listed? Yours! Right there on page 8. It said "Canny prophets like to keep their prognostications vauge. But the Web's anonymity seems to bring out a bolder sort of prediction" It listed 5 address and one was yours!

My reply

Thanks for letting me know. This may have something to do with my page getting such a great number of hits every day.

Incoming Email

Whether you are right or wrong, (about May 31), you have helped strengthen my love for Jesus Christ and my understanding of the infinite power and glory of God. And I believe THAT to be the most important thing anyone can do for someone else. Thank you and God bless you.

My reply

Thank you. I just want everyone to be ready just in case.

Incoming Email

I was wondering about the guest/friend who is at the wedding but the Lord told him he didn't have white linen garments, he was speechless and was cast out.

Who is this person?? any ideas??

I wondered wether the man misses the Firstfruits rapture and upon realising it sins by committing suicide???

My reply

I don't really know about the man at the wedding. It may be just to show some skeptics that the Bride MUST wear the white wedding garments. Others are not going to be at the WEDDING. They will wash their garments in the blood of Christ and be present at the Marriage SUPPER though.

I don't think suicide is right at all. We might miss out on some reward the Lord would have given us if we picked up our cross and followed him.

Incoming Email

I have been spending some time on your website lately and have really enjoyed your writings. The reason for my writing to you is that I had a brief vision this morning and wanted to share it with you. I have never had a vision before, but felt compelled to ask the Lord for one concerning the Rapture. Before the vision, I felt God's presence very strongly in my room. Then I saw a large city that was very crowded. To the right of me I could see a huge dragon-like monster rising up from the city. And at the same moment many people started to flow upward like rain in reverse. At the top was a beautiful golden cloud where Jesus was waiting for everyone to arrive. As I started to rise also, I asked the Lord if the monster was the antichrist, and He told me that it was Satan. He was preparing his final moments now that the church was gone. That was the end of the vision except for the date May 31 flashing in my mind. I am being cautious about the vision, but find it very intriguing.

Incoming Email

Re: The Litmus Test
I find the imminent rapture of the "True Believers" extremely interesting. It is really separating the sheep from the goats amongst Christians. A pastor I know, a good friend in fact, has declared from the pulpit that the Rapture will definitely not take place on 31st May because "no man knows the hour or the day", and that because people are nominating this date, this means it definitely will not happen on that day!!

  Some friends who I thought would at least have been open to considering the possibility, are laughing at the idea and generally I am amazed at just how few Christians are prepared to come as "trusting little children" to the Master with His Wonderful Outstretched Arms! How much safer so many seem to think it is, to scoff and be able to say "I told you so!", if it does not happen. I am proud to be counted (in their eyes) a "Fool for Jesus' Sake".

  The amazing thing is that people who I would not have thought would be open to it, are; and conversely people who I would have thought would be open to it, are not. It's the most interesting and revealing litmus test of just who the ones are who have simple childlike faith.

  Enoch, Elijah and Jesus all knew in advance of their imminent rapture and I don't expect this one to be any different.

I personally believe that we are going to have a definite knowing in our spirits, whether imparted by angelic visitation, divine revelation, vision or dream - and that by the last day we will know that tomorrow is The Day!!

  Also I feel Jesus, rather than being exclusive, is trying to include as many as He can. He is not willing that one should perish, but the mockers are out in force, and guess where? . . in Christian circles!

  God Bless You Marilyn for alerting so many to watch. In His love

Incoming Email

NOT TOO LATE
It's still not too late to admit that you were wrong. You still have a few days before your next prophecy is due to fail. You can admit now that you made a false prediction, and simply walk away with your dignity intact.

I suspect, however, that you won't do it. Your delusion runs far too deep for that. It's too bad, because you are dragging many fine people in your wake.

What, I wonder, will happen when the 21st comes and goes with no Rapture (which it will)? Are you going to extend your prophecy by another seven days? Are you finally going to realise that you can use the Bible to support any date you want? Are you going to keep predicting the end until you can do so no longer?

Fortunately, you are in good company. Jesus said "Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. (Mark 13:30)" He was wrong too.

My reply

Do you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ? If so, how can you say that the Lord Jesus Christ was wrong? Do you realize who he is? He is the creator himself. It is impossible for him to be wrong.

I was wrong about the Rapture happening on May 31. Didn't you think I knew that when the date passed? I never did say that it had to happen on that day. I said that I was not a prophet, but that was the way it looked to me. I gave my reasons and said the people should search the scripures and see if these things were so.

> Are you going to extend your prophecy by another seven days?

I am not prophesying, never have been. I am merely a humble servant trying to understand the scriptures the Lord has written for us.

Prov. 2:3-7 says, "Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding; If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures; Then shalt thou understand the fear of the LORD, and find the knowledge of God. For the LORD giveth wisdom: out of his mouth cometh knowledge and understanding. He layeth up sound wisdom for the righteous." I am searching. Aren't you?

I think Rev. 1:10 indicates that the Rapture will be on a Sunday. Jesus also mentioned the third watch and even the fourth watch of the night.

Mark 13:35 says, "Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch." Mark 6:48 says, "and about the fourth watch of the night he cometh unto them, walking upon the sea."

He will come when he has planned, whether it is when we think it will be or not. However, if we started counting four weeks from the Orthodox Pentecost, using Jewish inclusive reckoning, we would count June 7, 14, 21 and 28. Because of Song of Solomon 2:11's saying "winter is past," not spring is past, I think the 21st seems a lot more likely than the 28th.

I think we are being tested and should hang in there, keep our faith strong, and be ready no matter when it comes. It can't be long. World conditions alone show us that.

Incoming Email

Re: Rapture
Thanks for your web site. I enjoy all the pros and cons so much. You have been used by God in a mighty way and will be rewarded for all your diligent studying of His word all these years. Most of the people I talk to have never even heard of the Rapture, and if they did, they really don't believe it literally. I am not concerned about Y2K millenium computer bug because I know we definitely won't be here by then. Maybe this weekend???

Incoming Email

Hello Dearest Friends:
Just a short note to tell you how much love is in our hearts from the two across from you! Have been kept up-to-date about you and with you from ----; where he finds the strength must come from the same place yours come from. All that know you and of you benefits--it is truly a honor to know you personally. I still remember the goose bumps that first day I went to visit you at your home! I think of you and Ed often and know you are busy! I know you think of us as I do of you and Ed -- the invisible thread runs from yours to ours with God's grace. Miss you though!

I am very confident that all will be well and we shall meet as before regardless of where the place! Marilyn, take care of yourself well and give Ed a big hug from us! Much LOVE

My reply

I am so busy that I can't answer all of my email. As hard as I try, it runs between 475 and 500 in my Inbox. I used to read them all to Ed. Now, there is no time for that. I just read him certain ones, like yours. Stand strong in these days of Satan being allowed to sift us in a sieve as wheat. We will see you as soon as possible, one way or another. Much love from both of us.

Incoming Email

I have checked your sight nearly every day for months now with great interest. I agree with a great deal of your work, but I'm always cautious about "dates" but truly believe your heart is in the right place, truly.

The fall harvest or the harvest at the end of this present age is in the seventh month on the biblical religious calendar. Pentecost is in the third month. From Pentecost, there are four months until the final harvest in the fall (John 4:34-35) (from the book The Seven Festivals of the Messiah by Edward Chumney).

Now with that said, let's look at the Festivals:

Pesach = Passover
Hag HaMatza = Feast of Unleavened Bread
Bikkurim = First Fruits of Barley Harvest
Shavuot = Feast of Weeks/Pentecost
YomTeruah or Rosh HaShanah = Feast of Trumpets*
Yom Kippur = Day of Atonement*
Sukkot = Feast of Tabernacles/Booths/Rejoicing

The Former and Latter rains of the Old Testament are analogous with the former and later feast or spring and fall feast.

My analysis leads me to believe the Rapture will occur on Rosh HaShana. Rosh HaShana being the Feast of Trumpets or in this case it will be the "last Feast of Trumpets" for believing man, thus "the last trump as in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52. This "last trump" that Paul is referring to is NOT the 7th trump in my strong opinion.

Further, I believe the Tribulation will start on Yom Kippur. Yom Kippur is The Day of Atonement. In Revelation 8:3, the word "censer" is used. The only time this word is used is in reference to "The Day of Atonement" in the Old Testament descriptions of the Feast/Festivals. Further, the High Priest would not be in contact with the outside world (even in thought) for a week (7 days) prior to going into the Holy of Holies on this special annual day.

I also find it interesting that Sukkot is 7 days after

Is it possible...that the Rapture will occur on Rosh HaShana (of some year, in 1998 this is Sept 21-22), we will spend 3 days with Christ in Heaven, then as "our High Priest or Melchizedek" He will prepare for The Day of Atonement for 7 days and on "that day" His final dealings with man will begin ? I think it's highly probable, but VERY interested in your feedback.
Shalom!

My reply

Thanks for your kind words.

> The Former and Latter rains of the Old Testament are analogous with the
> former and later feast or spring and fall feast.

The former rains and the latter rains in Israel are such definite seasons that they are listed on their calendar. The former rain starts Tishri 1 (first day of Civil Year), the latter rain Nisan 1 (first day of Sacred Year and Regnal Year). These are the times of both Advents of Christ. This was foretold first in De. 11:14: "I will give you the rain of your land in HIS DUE SEASON, the first rain (Jesus' birth) and the latter rain (His Second Coming)."

It is seen in Hos. 6:3: "the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth."

> My analysis leads me to believe the Rapture will occur on Rosh HaShana.
> Rosh HaShana being the Feast of Trumpets or in this case it will be the
> "last Feast of Trumpets" for believing man, thus "the last trump as in 1
> Corinthians 15:51-52. This "last trump" that Paul is referring to is NOT
> the 7th trump in my strong opinion.

I believe that Rapture II will take place on Rosh HaShana. I agree that the last trump that calls the Tribulation saints to heaven cannot be the seventh trumpet judgment. Those are sounded by angels. This is the trump of God. If, as some say, the Rapture was at the seventh trumpet of judgment, the saints would be going through the Day of God's Wrath. That can't be.

> I believe the Tribulation will start on Yom Kippur. Yom Kippur is
> The Day of Atonement. In Revelation 8:3, the word "censer" is used.

I think the Tribulation will start on the Feast of Weeks. It is the Seventieth Week of Daniel and there are 2300 days from Weeks in 2001 to Trumpets in 2007. The censer is filled with fire and cast down to Earth to symbolize the asteroid that will impact Earth on the Feast of Trumpets in 2007.

Isa. 66:8 shows that Israel will be born in a day. I think that day is the Feast of Trumpets in 2007. That is the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord. They will afflict their souls during the Days of Awe and be accepted by the Lord on the following Day of Atonement. These will live on into the Millennium on Earth.

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© 1998 Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 6-19-98