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Pro and Con 1338

Posted 5-23-07

Incoming e-mail, Re: Marilyn

From your Pro and Con # 1337, I highlighted with red below.....we will be ALL in ONE place :o)


"...The word Pentecost, which means 50, appears three times in Scripture. Acts 2:1 says, "when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place." They were all in the upper room at Jerusalem. Does the UPPER ROOM suggest Heaven on Pentecost?"

My reply


Acts 2:1 is the only verse that mentions "in one place". That could be significant. Maybe the upper room at Jerusalem is a type of the place of assembly in the heavenly New Jerusalem after each Rapture.

Word searches can help us understand. In the KJV, the first "trumpet" of the Bible is in Ex. 19:13. It says, "There shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live: when the TRUMPET soundeth long, they shall COME UP to the mount."

The word "trump" only appears in I Thess. 4:16 and I Cor. 15:52. The former tells us about the FIRST TRUMP, the Pre-Trib Rapture. The latter tells us about the "LAST TRUMP, the Pre-Wrath Rapture.

I Thess. 4:16 says, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the TRUMP of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first".

I Cor. 15:52 says, "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed."

The ALT (Analytical Literal Translation) is interesting. Here is what it says about both the first and last trump Raptures.


1Th 4:16,17 says, "Because the Lord Himself with a shout of command, with [the] voice of an archangel and with [the] TRUMPET OF GOD, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first, then _we_, the ones living, the ones being left, will be caught up together with them in [the] clouds to a meeting of the Lord in [the] air, and so we will always be with the Lord!"


1Co 15:51-53 says, "Listen! I tell you* a secret: We indeed will not all sleep [fig., die], but we will all be changed [or, be transformed], in a moment, in a blinking of an eye, in the LAST TRUMPET, for it will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible [or, imperishable], and _we_ will be changed [or, transformed]! For it is necessary [for] this corruptible to put on incorruption (this happens at both Raptures), and this mortal to put on immortality" (this only happens at the last Rapture, when all actually become immortal).

Heb. 12:18-29 in the Analytical Literal Translation is interesting. It is talking about the "last trump", the time of the second Rapture, the Pre-Wrath Rapture on the Feast of Trumpets, but also refers to the time of the literal first trump at Mt. Sinai on Pentecost, which seems to be the type of the first "trump of God", the Pre-Trib Rapture. See what you think.

It says, "For you* have not come to a mountain (Mt. Sinai) being touched and having been burnt with fire, and to blackness and to darkness and to a whirlwind, and to a sound of a TRUMPET (the first trumpet of the Bible) and to a voice of words, which the ones having heard begged [for] a word not to be added to them. For they could not bear the [thing] being commanded, "If even an animal touches the mountain, it will be stoned or shot down with an arrow." [Exod 19:12,13] And so terrifying was the [thing] being made visible [fig., the sight] [that] Moses said, "I am terrified, and trembling." [Deut 9:19] But_ you* have come to Mount Zion and to [the] city of [the] living God, to HEAVENLY JERUSALEM and to countless thousands of angels, to [the] FESTIVE GATHERING (i.e., on the Feast of Trumpets) AND ASSEMBLY [or, church] of first-born [ones] having been enrolled in heaven and to God, [the] Judge of all [people], and to [the] spirits of righteous [ones] HAVING BEEN MADE PERFECT (i.e., at the time of the 'last trump', the Pre-Wrath Rapture), and to [the] Mediator of a new covenant-Jesus-and to [the] blood of sprinkling, speaking a better [thing] than the [blood] of Abel. Be seeing [that] you* DO NOT REFUSE TO LISTEN TO THE ONE SPEAKING. For if those [ones] DID NOT ESCAPE, having refused the One warning [them] on earth, much more [shall we not escape], the ones turning away from the One [speaking] from heaven, whose voice at that time shook the earth, but now He has promised, saying, "Yet ONCE MORE_I_ (Jesus) am shaking not only the earth, _but_ also the heaven." [Haggai 2:6] Now the [phrase] "Yet once more" clearly shows the removal of the [things] being shaken, as of [things] having been created, so that the [things] not being shaken shall remain. For this reason, [since we are] receiving an unshakable kingdom, let us be having grace, through which we are sacredly serving God in an acceptable manner, with reverence and godly fear. For indeed our God [is] a consuming fire [or, [is] as to His essence consuming fire]. [Exod 24:17; Deut 4:24]".

When the Israelites were at the earthly Mt. Sinai, the Son of God in his pre-incarnate form shook the Earth. When believers are at the heavenly Mt. Zion, the Son of God, Jesus Christ, will not only shake Earth, he will shake the heavens. Heaven itself will not be shaken, and it shall remain. Christ's kingdom will not be shaken, and it shall remain.

To me, the passages in Hebrews 12 and Exodus 19 seem to suggest that the FIRST TRUMP will sound on Pentecost. I feel sure that the LAST TRUMP will sound on the Feast of Trumpets. The previous feast is Pentecost. It fits the FIRST TRUMP, and it applies to Israel as well as to other believers. That's reasonable, since Jesus and the first members of the church were Jewish.

The FIRST TRUMP did not sound on Ascension Day, but it did on Pentecost, as it did on all 7 feast days. Therefore, I am looking for the Rapture to take place on Pentecost, maybe this year since it is the 40th year since the Sign of the End of the Age, the Six-Day War of 1967.

Since the red heifer has to be sacrificed in her 4th year, and she is already 3.5, the Rapture can't be far off. Ths ashes of the red heifer are to purify the priests that will build the Temple. In Herod's day, the Temple structure itself was built by the priests from already prepared materials in one year. I expect the Temple to be built before Moses and Elijah arrive as the 2 witnesses that will prophesy during the first half of the Tribulation. I think the Tribulation will begin on Pentecost in 2009. I think we have to be gone by then, and there is nothing that tells us that the literal Temple will be here while we are still here. We are the Temple of the Holy Spirit. After we are gone, I expect the literal Temple to be built. Our days are numbered. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: This generation

Long time follower of your web site. Hoping that this is the season. I had a question that I am sure you have a good answer for. I have noticed how you are able to look at original greek words to find other meanings, such as "tender" in the English Bible being also "young" (apollos) in Greek. In the fig tree parable it says that "this generation will not pass away until all these things are fulfilled." It seems that the King James version of the Bible and every other translation since has translated the original greek to the word "generation." It seems that most scholars tend to agree that this is the correct intention of the original Greek. I keep seeing in various places that the original greek word used for generation also has another meaning--"race."

So my mind got to thinking and I wondered if race would make sense. At the time Jesus spoke those words, the Jews were under oppression by the Romans. In fact, they had pretty much been somewhat scattered since Babylon some 400 years prior. Israel was not called Israel, but rather Judea thanks to the various conquors over the centuries. Israel would never see it's former glory like it had during King David and Solomon.

Of all the ethnic races throughout history, no race has had to worry about extinction or total annihilation quite like the Jews. From Egypt, Syria, Babylon, Greece, Rome, Russia, Germany and the rest of Europe, these people (Jews) have been fighting to exsist as a race since the dawn of time. So was Jesus trying to confort his chosen people by letting them know that "this race (Jews) will not pass away until all these things are fulfilled?" If so, then counting down a 40 year generation from 1967 would wind up being fruitless.

Ok, so here is the actual question: Since Greek words--as just about all languages--can have multiple meanings, Tender/Young, Generation/Race)is there any documents the pre-date the orginal Greek New Testamant? (Arabic, Hebrew, etc.) If there is, perhaps that would shed more light on this word "generation."

Thank you for your time and keep up the fantastic work. Stay encouraged, keep watching, and may God bless your diligence.

My reply

> > is there any documents the pre-date the orginal Greek New Testamant? (Arabic, Hebrew, etc.) If there is, perhaps that would shed more light on this word "generation."

There is the Old Testament, originally in Hebrew. The first time "generation" is used is in Gen. 7:1. In the KJV English, it says, "the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation." The Greek Septuagint has, "genea". and Brenton's English translation of the Septuagint has "generation."

Strong's Hebrew 1755 says, "do^r do^r, From H1752; properly a revolution of time, that is, an age or generation; also a dwelling: - age, X evermore, generation, [n-]ever, posterity."

Not knowing the original languages myself, I have to rely on those that do. In Mt. 24:32-34, Strong's Greek Dictionary says of genea, "From (a presumed derivative of) G1085; a generation; by implication an age (the period or the persons): - age, generation, nation, time."

These translations all translate "genea" as "generation": ALT, ASV, Bishops, Darby, DRB, ISV, KJV, LITV, Webster, and YLT. I don't know of any that translate it differently. Even the very literal Concordant Version has "this generation."

The King James Concordance says of genea,

"Total KJV Occurrences: 42

generation, 31

Mat_11:16, Mat_12:39, Mat_12:41-42 (2), Mat_12:45, Mat_16:4, Mat_17:17, Mat_23:36, Mat_24:34, Mar_8:12 (2), Mar_8:38, Mar_9:19, Mar_13:30, Luk_1:50 (2), Luk_7:31, Luk_9:41, Luk_11:29-32 (4), Luk_11:50-51 (2), Luk_16:8, Luk_17:25, Luk_21:32, Act_2:40, Act_8:33, Act_13:36, Heb_3:10

generations, 6

Mat_1:17 (4), Luk_1:48, Col_1:26

ages, 2

Eph_3:5, Eph_3:21

nation, 1


time, 1


times, 1


Thayer's Greek Definitions says of genea,

"1) fathered, birth, nativity

2) that which has been begotten, men of the same stock, a family

2a) the several ranks of natural descent, the successive members of a genealogy

2b) metaphorically a group of men very like each other in endowments, pursuits, character

2b1) especially in a bad sense, a perverse nation

3) the whole multitude of men living at the same time

4) an age (i.e. the time ordinarily occupied be each successive generation), a space of 30 - 33 years

Part of Speech: noun feminine".

Concerning the 30 - 33 years, Webster's Dictionary says that a generation is 33 years, but we have to let the Bible interpret itself. The Israelites wandered 40 years in the desert while one generation died off. We can't call that "generation" a "race."

Mt. 1:17 gives us 48.33 years for a generation. We can't substitute "race" for "generation" there, either.

Mt. 1:1-17 says, "The book of the GENERATION of Jesus Christ, the son of David, the son of Abraham. Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob; and Jacob begat Judas and his brethren; And Judas begat Phares and Zara of Thamar; and Phares begat Esrom; and Esrom begat Aram; And Aram begat Aminadab; and Aminadab begat Naasson; and Naasson begat Salmon; And Salmon begat Booz of Rachab; and Booz begat Obed of Ruth; and Obed begat Jesse; And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias; And Solomon begat Roboam; and Roboam begat Abia; and Abia begat Asa; And Asa begat Josaphat; and Josaphat begat Joram; and Joram begat Ozias; And Ozias begat Joatham; and Joatham begat Achaz; and Achaz begat Ezekias; And Ezekias begat Manasses; and Manasses begat Amon; and Amon begat Josias; And Josias begat Jechonias and his brethren, about the time they were carried away to Babylon: And after they were brought to Babylon, Jechonias begat Salathiel; and Salathiel begat Zorobabel; And Zorobabel begat Abiud; and Abiud begat Eliakim; and Eliakim begat Azor; (One has been left out by scribes. The Du Tillet Hebrew MSS has "Abichud begat Avner, and Avner begat Eliakim) And Azor begat Sadoc; and Sadoc begat Achim; and Achim begat Eliud; And Eliud begat Eleazar; and Eleazar begat Matthan; and Matthan begat Jacob; And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ. So all the GENERATIONS from Abraham to David are fourteen GENERATIONS ; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen GENERATIONS ; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen GENERATIONS."

The meaning of "generation" there is clear. It can't mean 14 races. Those 2030 years divided by 42 generations gives us 48.33 years for a generation. It can't be much clearer than that.

Mt. 24:32-34 says, "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch (klados, scion broken off for grafting) is yet tender (apalos, young, i.e., no more than 19, which Israel was in 1967), and putteth forth leaves (i.e., grows), ye know that summer is nigh (the Six-Day War began June 5; summer began June 21): So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it ('the kingdom of God,' Luke 21:31) is near, even at the doors (symbol of the two Raptures, Rev. 3:8). Verily I say unto you, This generation (i.e., born in 1967) shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

If we count "This generation" born in 1967 as 48.33 years long, we get 2015.33. That is perfect for the second "door" (the Pre-Wrath Rapture) on Tishri 1, 5776 (Monday, Sept 14, 2015).

Counting back the 2300--day Tribulation (Dan. 8:12-14) places the beginning of the Tribulation on Pentecost, Sivan 6, 5769 (May 29, 2009). I think the Pre-Trib Rapture will take place on or before that Pentecost.

This year has a good chance since the Israelites wandered in the desert 40 years then went into their promised land. I hope we will go into our promised land, Heaven, this year (5727 + 40 = 5767) (1967 + 40 = 2007). The year 5768 begins on Sept. 13, 2007.

1Cor. 10:11 says, "Now all these things happened unto them (Israel) for ensamples and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (lit., ages) are come."

Pentecost seems right, because the first trumpet sounded in the Bible was on Pentecost at Mt. Sinai. It was sounded by God too, not by man. Moses was called up on Sivan 6. Agape

The reply

Thank you so much for the reply. I just knew you would have an air-tight answer. The fourteen generations part certainly seals it for me. This could never mean 14 "races."

I am always astonished at how much you know and understand about the Bible. I hope someday to have half the wisdom that you have been given. God Bless

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