Pro and Con 1342

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Pro and Con 1342

Posted 6-28-07

Incoming e-mail, Re: The gap between the Rapture and Tribulation

Excellent, makes perfect sense. Many agree that the raptured will not be on earth when the temple is built.


"Rabbi warns against going to Temple Mount"
By Nadav Shragai

Former chief rabbi Avraham Shapira, head of Mercaz Harav yeshiva, said yesterday that Jews are prohibited from going to the Temple Mount. Shapira's statement came after a pamphlet issued by religious-Zionist rabbis calling on people to go to the Temple Mount, and doing so themselves earlier this week in what has been called a historical change in their stand.

Shapira (along with Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu) is considered a leading figure in the religious-Zionist movement. He made the statements at the traditional rally in honor of Jerusalem Day at the yeshiva. Rabbi Dov Lior, the head of the West Bank rabbinic committee and the chief rabbi of Kiryat Arba, who was among those who visited the Temple Mount with the group this week, was seated next to him.


Incoming e-mail from the Temple Mount Faithful says, "The Gd of Israel appeared in all the fields of battle. There are exciting descriptions of Israeli soldiers who during the (Six-Day) war saw angels fighting together with them and felt the presence of G-d among them"

Temple Mount Faithful, June 18, 2007
Web site:

A Special March of The Temple Mount and Land of Israel Faithful Movement to the Temple Mount in Jerusalem and an Exciting godly Event on the Temple Mount on Jerusalem Day 28th of Iyar, 5767 - May 16, 2007 Commemorating the 40 Year Anniversary of the Liberation of the Temple Mount and Jerusalem by the Israeli Forces of G-d in the Year 1967...

The Gd of Israel appeared before the Faithful Movement in a unique way when they entered upon the Temple Mount to pray and to meet the Gd of Israel

All the wars since 1948 were godly wars. The Gd of Israel appeared in all of them, saved His people Israel and together with His Israeli soldiers defeated all these vandalistic Arab Islamic forces, who were sure that they can defeat the Gd of Israel, the creator of the universe and His chosen people Israel. G-d judged all of them and gave them a terrible lesson. However, the Six Day War in 1967 should be called a major godly war and an important stage in the process of the Zionist redemption of Israel that is taking place in the promised land especially since 1948. God appeared in all the fields of battles and in six days defeated together with the small Israel all the Arab forces that attacked Israel from the south by Egypt, from the north by Syria and from the east by Jordan with the backing of all the other Arab countries. Together with them fought against Israel one of the greatest powers of that time, the Soviet Union. Actually they were all defeated in three hours when the Israeli Air Forces destroyed all the Arab Air Forces. The war continued six more days because the Gd of Israel wanted to beat them more and more. THE GD OF ISRAEL APPEARED IN ALL THE FIELDS OF BATTLE. THERE ARE EXCITING DESCRIPTIONS OF ISRAELI SOLDIERS WHO DURING THE WAR SAW ANGELS FIGHTING TOGETHER WITH THEM AND FELT THE PRESENCE OF G-D AMONG THEM....

Gershon called them to liberate from Arab Islamic control all the areas of the promised land which are today controlled by foreign Arab countries, to immediately regather the Ten Lost Tribes of Israel that were discovered recently in the Far East, mainly in Afghanistan and Pakistan, and to settle them in these areas and in Samaria from where they were exiled 2,800 years ago by the Assyrians. It is the expectation of Gd since they were exiled and a condition for the coming of Mashiach ben David...

From Jaffa Gate the Faithful continued to march to the Temple Mount, the climax and the top of this exciting event and march of the Faithful Movement. When we arrived at the Temple Mount and we entered to the Temple Mount as one group an exciting godly event happened. A rain that started when we arrived to the area of the Temple Mount became so strong when we entered upon the Temple Mount, so strong that we never saw and experienced in our lives such a rain. It was like huge rivers of water came suddenly from heaven and brought in a short time a great amount of water on the ground. What also was unusual was the timing of this unique rain that came in the time of summer in Israel when as normal we do not see even one drop of rain. Immediately at the same time started also a very strong wind that never happened in the past at this time of the year. It was so strong that it reminded us of what was said in the scriptures of how G-d appeared before His people in the strong wind and storm. It was really an exciting appearance of the Shekinah of Gd before His Faithful children on His holy hill. WHEN IT HAPPENED ALL THE ARABS ON THE TEMPLE MOUNT RAN AWAY BECAUSE OF FEAR FROM THIS GODLY SIGHT AND UNUSUAL RAIN AND WIND. The Temple Mount was empty and ready to welcome the Temple Mount Faithful marchers. We all felt that G-d prepared and made this scenario especially for the Temple Mount Faithful who, for the first time after many years, G-d put in the mind of the Israeli authorities to allow them to enter upon the Temple Mount as one group. It was a gift from the Gd of Israel for His Faithful soldiers and children that for 40 years have been fighting, struggling and campaigning for Him, for the rebuilding of His holy Temple and for educating His people Israel to again be a biblical nation who should fulfill the biblical mission of Gd to be a holy nation, a kingdom of priests and a light to the nations. For this He appeared before them in such an exciting way and removed the enemy from the Temple Mount and it was ready for the Faithful to meet their beloved Gd on His holy hill with no disturbance or presence of foreigners and enemies. The Faithful could even pray and worship Gd with their faces to the Holy of Holies and nobody was there to stop or to disturb them. After many years that they could not do so they felt that this unique rain was a blessing from Gd. They did not cover themselves from the rain, they felt that it warms their hearts and like Gd is caressing and hugging His Faithful children and encouraging them to continue their holy work. They became so wet but it did not bother them. More than this it healed and warmed them. WE FELT LIKE GD IS CLEANSING THE SIN OF 40 YEARS OF MOSHE DYAN AND OPENING THE GATES OF THE TEMPLE MOUNT FOR THE NEW ERA OF BUILDING HIS HOUSE AND KINGDOM. He showed us through this unique godly event the way for purification of His holy mountain that He started with these rivers of water from heaven. It was like He is telling us that until this moment the time was dedicated for the physical building of Jerusalem, the land and His kingdom, which surely should continue in the future, but from now on after these 40 years Israel is called and should start to build under the Gd of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob the Spiritual Jerusalem and G-ds Kingdom.

Incoming e-mail, Re: Just a thought

Hope this message finds you well. It has been a while since I last wrote to you.

I keep getting these pangs/hunches about 2030.

Call it an intuition or whatever, but the scripture that keeps coming to mind is the one that references the Lord raising us up after two days, i.e., each day being a thousand years.

Hos 6:2 After two days will He revive us, on the third day He will raise us up, that we may live in His presence.

It makes sense that the Lord would return after a two thousand year period from when he finished his ministry here. This means 2030ish.

Another thing that may back this up is it is confirmed that we have a near Earth asteroid heading our way in 2036. You may be able to see if this would tie in with a shortened tribulation and Hebrew regal year?? I am also sure I have heard references to a generation being 70 years? From 1948 plus 70 = 2028. I have done my own reading extensively and understand the references to 40 years, but something keeps giving me these pangs of 2030-2036.

Even though the signs are as thick as ever I think we are still in the beginning of sorrows . I think the pangs have to increase significantly so that we have something to escape. In the natural order of things, i.e., politics, signs in the earth, stars, social deterioration, we may still be twenty years out. Any thoughts? I hope you are right about this year though. Come quickly Lord Jesus!

Keep up the fantastic work Marilyn . God bless you in Jesus name. Regards

My reply

Thanks for your kind words.

We are well, but pray for Ed to have enough strength to sit up in bed and get from his walker to his power chair without assistance. He is weak, can barely drag his feet along to walk slowly. He fell backward and hit his head on the tub and skinned his arms on the door-rail, but he's ok.

> > the scripture that keeps coming to mind is the one that references the Lord raising us up after two days, i.e., each day being a thousand years.

Maybe it doesn't mean raise us up, but raise Israel up. In Hosea 5:14,15, Jesus, the LORD of hosts (Isa. 44:6) says, "I will be unto EPHRAIM as a lion, and as a young lion to the house of JUDAH: I, even I, will tear and go away; I will take away, and none shall rescue him. I will go and return to my place (Heaven), till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction (i.e., Day of God's Wrath, when the Sign of the Son of Man is seen in the sky) they will seek me early."

As Hosea 6:2,3 continues, Israel is saying, "After two days (i.e., after 2000 years) will he revive us (Israel): in the third day (i.e., in the third 1000-year block of time) he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight (fulfilled May 14, 1948, when Israel became a nation). Then (i.e., after that) shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning (i.e., he will come as the Sun of Righteousness; Mal. 4:2); and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth."

The exile was c. 751 BC.
2000 - 751 = 1249 + 1 (because no zero yr) = 1250 AD.
1250 AD + 1000 = 2250 AD.
The 3rd block of 1000 years runs from 1250 AD to 2250 AD.

Therefore, when Israel became a nation in 1948, it was during the third 1000-year block of years. After 1948, if they FOLLOW ON to know the LORD, Israel can know when he will come. I figure the following on points to the Sign of the End of the Age, the Six-Day War of 1967. From that time on, I think believers can know when the LORD will come. Just as 1948 was not at the end of the 3rd 1000-year block of time, the Second Coming will not be at the end of the 3rd millennium since the exile.

The LORD "shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth" (Hos. 6:3). The first Advent was as the former rain in Israel, i.e., on Tishri 1. The Second Advent will be as the latter rain, i.e., on Nisan 1 (see Unger's Bible Dictionary). Tishri 1 is the first day of the Civil Year. Nisan 1 is the first day of the Regnal and Sacred Year.

The Jubilee Year, the 50th year, was to be celebrated 10 years after the Israelites entered the promised land following their 40 years in the desert. Applying that today, 40 years from 1967 is 2007. Adding 10 more years is 2017.

It looks like 2017 will actually be the YEAR OF JUBILEE. I think it will start Nisan 1, 5777 (Sunday, March 26, 2017). It is also interesting that 5777 will be year one of the Hebrew 19-year cycle. That seems like something the Lord would arrange. It is a new beginning.

> > It makes sense that the Lord would return after a two thousand year period from when he finished his ministry here. This means 2030ish.

What Scripture would back that up? Why couldn't it be after the 2000th year from Jesus' birth? That is when he came as the former rain.

> > I am also sure I have heard references to a generation being 70 years? From 1948 plus 70 = 2028.

It isn't a generation that is 70 years. That is the average life span. Agape

The significance of the numbers 40 and 50

By Marilyn Agee

To me, 40 means probation and testing and 50 means jubilee. Forty days marked Ascension Day. Fifty days marked Pentecost, also called the Feast of Weeks and the Feast of Harvest. To be sure I was right about the meaning of these two numbers, I searched on Google and found the following:

Forty Probation, testing, closing in victory or judgment
Fifty Pentecost, liberty, freedom, jubilee

The Sign of the End of the Age was when Israel fought the Six-Day War of June 5-10, 1967. She grew leaves, Sinai, Gaza Strip, Golan Heights and West Bank, fulfilling the Fig Tree Parable of Mt. 24:32-34. Jesus said, "Now learn a parable of the fig tree (Israel); When his branch (klados, scion broken off for grafting, i.e., modern Israel) is yet tender (apalos, young, i.e., no more than 19, which Israel was in 1967), and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh (the Six-Day War started June 5; summer began June 21): So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it ('the kingdom of God', Luke 21:31) is near, even at the doors (symbol of the 2 Raptures, Rev. 3:8). Verily I say unto you, This generation (i.e., those born in 1967) shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

Forty years

The type: Israel wandered in the desert 40 years. The older generation died off (except Joshua and Caleb). After those years of probation and testing, the children went into the promised land. Nu. 32:13 says, "And the LORD'S anger was kindled against Israel, and he made them wander in the wilderness forty years, until all the generation, that had done evil in the sight of the LORD, was consumed."

De. 8:2 says, "And thou shalt remember all the way which the LORD thy God led thee these forty years in the wilderness, to humble thee, and to prove thee, to know what was in thine heart, whether thou wouldest keep his commandments, or no."

Forty years from 1967 (5727) is 2007 (5767). This seems to be the lower limit for end-of-the-age events.

Fifty years

The type: Ten years after Israel went into the promised land was the Year of Jubilee, the 50th year after the Exodus. By the Jubilee, the war was over, and the men went home to their families.

Fifty years from 1967 (5727) is 2017 (5777). I think it will not only be the upper limit for end-of-the-age events, but will turn out to be the actual year of Jubilee. By that time, the War of Armageddon should be over.

My reply to an email FWD to me

> > I no longer believe the rapture will occur on Rosh Hashanah

> > Ezekiel 38-39 will happen post the rapture as it is apparently the catalyst for the war, and at least two months must proceed the picking up of dead bodies and weapons for 2520 days till Av 10, 2014. There are seven Jewish months in between Rosh Hashanah and Passover in Jewish leap years ( extra Veadar for 13 months) of which 2008 is a Jewish leap year, and Rosh Hashanah begins 2008 and the 490 year period ends in 2007.

I'm glad you have thought of the 7 months between Tishri 1 and Nisan 1 in a Jewish Leap Year. I think there will be 7 months between the Day of God's Wrath on Tishri 1 (Sept. 14, 2015) and the Second Advent on Nisan 1 in 5776 (April 9, 2016). I think the Jubilee will be 50 years from the Six-Day War of 1967 (5727). The Jubilee would be announced Tishri 10, 5777 and start on Nisan 1, 5777 (March 2, 2017).

I first thought the Rapture would be on Pentecost. Since that, I have considered different feasts as possibilities. Hanukkah also seemed like a good bet. However, none have as good a reason as Pentecost. I believe that the Pre-Trib Rapture will be on Pentecost, because it is the first "trump of God" (I Thess. 4:16,17), not the "last trump" of I Cor. 15:51,52. According to Jewish tradition, the first trumpet of the Bible was sounded by God on Pentecost (Ex. 19).

1 Cor 10:11 says, "Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world (lit., consummation of the age) are come."

I think the "last trump" will be on the Feast of Trumpets. The Day of God's Wrath has come in Rev. 6:17. The Pre-Wrath Rapture of Rev. 7:14 will precede God's Wrath that begins to be poured out in Rev. 8.

Eze. 38:18-20 takes place on the Day of God's Wrath at the end of the shortened Great Tribulation, the last half of the 7-year Tribulation. Eze. 38:18-20 says, "it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that MY FURY shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy and in the fire of MY WRATH have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence, and the mountains (asteroids of Rev. 8-11) shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and EVERY WALL SHALL FALL to the ground."

When the two asteroid pieces impact the Mediterranean Sea and Babylon, it causes a worldwide earthquake. All buildings will be ruined. The globe will be turned upside down. That can only take place on the Day of God's Wrath. Isa 24:1 says, "Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it UPSIDE DOWN, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof."

Joel 1:15; 2:1.2 says, "Alas for the day! for the DAY OF THE LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come....Blow ye the TRUMPET in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the DAY OF THE LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, NEITHER SHALL BE ANY MORE AFTER IT, even to the years of many generations."

If this is the last time this will take place, it has to be at the end, not at the beginning, of the Tribulation. The Day of the Lord will be the first day of Christ's millennial kingdom. It will be the day of the Pre-Wrath Rapture, the Marriage of the Lamb and the Judgment Seat of Christ. There is no other day like this day ever.

Rev. 11:15-19 says, "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art (on the Day of the Lord), and wast (at the First Advent), and art to come (at the Second Advent 7 months later; Eze. 39:12,13); because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and THY WRATH IS COME, and the time of the dead, that they should be JUDGED, and that thou shouldest give REWARD unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an EARTHQUAKE, and great hail."

The Jews will bury the dead for the 7 months between the Day of God's Wrath and the Second Advent in a Leap Year, probably 5776. Tishri 1, 5776 will be Sept. 14, 2015. Eze. 39:12,13 says, "And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD."

I think the Tribulation will start on Pentecost, Sivan 6, 5767 (May 29, 2009) and last 2300 days (Dan. 8:12-14). The Rapture could happen on Pentecost in 5758 (2008) or 5769 (2009). Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: This Generation shall not pass before all, including His second return

The children of Israel were lost for 40 years until that generation all died, but don't forget they were 20 years or older when they crossed the Red Sea! The Bible gives a generation of 70 years in Psalms. 1945 (fig tree begins to bud) plus 70 years is 2015, less 7 years tribulation is 2008. The Last Trumpet i.e.. The Last Jubilee, The appointed time of the Rapture. Get ready Dear Friend we are going for a ride!

My reply

> > The Bible gives a generation of 70 years in Psalms

Where? I searched for "seventy" using eSword without finding the word in the Psalms. Psa. 90:10 is the only place in the Psalms that we find "threescore years and ten." The lifespan is 70. Psa 90:10 says, "THE DAYS OF OUR YEARS ARE THREESCORE YEARS AND TEN; and if by reason of strength they be fourscore years, yet is their strength labour and sorrow; for it is soon cut off, and we fly away."

Psalms 95:8-11 says, "Harden not your heart, as in the provocation, and as in the day of temptation in the wilderness: When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my work. FORTY YEARS long was I grieved with this GENERATION, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways: Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest." Agape

Incoming e-mail

I've pondered about when we will see Jesus, then I saw this verse sitting in plain view, I was thrilled to see this further affirmation of the coming temple 4 years.

1Ki 6:37 In the fourth year was the foundation of the house of the LORD laid, in the month Zif:

When we are thinking about a building like the Holy temple its always accompanied by the echoes that its presence leaves throughout time. Its glory becomes a reality whenever His chosen people REMEMBER their special covenant relationship with the Lord. When His people remember, repent and return this always heralds a coming re-construction or rebuilding of the Temple.

They will return first to oblations, sacrifices and regular temple worship until they are taught first by the two Witnesses then by the 144,000 that a new pseudo-temple can't be defiled by the AC because Christ Himself has already has already built a structure much bolder. A mansion much more wonderful for the habitation of His children. Did you like the ruby cross and the brightest object ever seen by man pictures I sent? Wonders of God's family to enjoy. Agape

My reply

Yes. Thanks much for the pictures.

2Ch 3:2 says, "And he (Solomon) began to build in the second day of the second month, in the FOURTH year of his reign." I wonder if they will begin to build the Temple next year on Iyar 2, 5768. They will sacrifice the red heifer when she is FOUR. She is 3.5 now.

If they completed the Temple on Iyar 2, 5769 (May 29, 2009), the Temple would be there for Sivan 6, Pentecost, when I think the Tribulation will start.

Rev. 11:1-3says, "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months. And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth. "

There seems to be a literal Temple on Earth during the first half of the Tribulation. Therefore, the priests should be building it a year before that. Will we be Raptured next Pentecost, Sivan 6, after the Temple construction begins on Iyar 2? What a sign that would be.

I'm praying for you. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: I think we have found different methods that lead to the same conclusion.

On October 17th 2012, Over Jerusalem, The Sign of the Woman in the Heavens occurs. The Virgo Image is from the Starry Night Astronomy Program. I have lightened the Moon to show its position, it is actually a very thin crescent moon. The Virgin (Virgo means Virgin) is clothed in the Sun. This is an ancient term indicating the sun has entered into a constellation. The Moon is at her feet, this alignment lasts only one day. This event was known to the ancients as the Sign of Harvest! Just 22 days before your Nov 8th date! If you read the scripture carefully you see John has given us a universal date by using the Sun Moon and Stars. He says "I saw a sign in the heavens" in Geneses God tells us the Sun, Moon, and Stars are for Signs. This sign is the mid point of Tribulation. The Jews and many tribulation saints are raptured (second rapture). The 12 stars above Virgo indicates the Jews are now in Heaven. This is what Paul foretold when he said "All Israel shall be Saved." The False Prophet demands Worship from the new Temple.

My reply

> > This sign is the mid point of Tribulation. The Jews and many tribulation saints are raptured (second rapture). The 12 stars above Virgo indicates the Jews are now in Heaven.

I wrote, "MID TRIB, 4TH SEAL
1260th day, Heshvan 23, 5773 (Thursday, Nov. 8, 2012, by Inclusive reckoning)
False Prophet begins his reign"

If I understand you right, you mean that Mid-Trib is "October 17th 2012" instead of Nov. 8, 2012, and that the second Rapture is Mid-Trib. If not, please help me understand what you mean.

I think the second Rapture is on the Day of God's Wrath at the end of the shortened Great Tribulation. Rev. 6 ends with "the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" The second Rapture is in Rev. 7. Verse 14 says, "These are they which came out of great tribulation". The seven trumpet judgments are cast on Earth in Rev. 8f.

It looks like the sign in Rev. 12:1f is to show us the day when Jesus was born in 5 BC. That sign appeared on Tishri 1 (Sept. 4, 5 BC). Agape

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