Pro and Con 1357

Posted 9-11-07

Rare pink dolphin photo

Incoming e-mail

Your Article, "THE PARTIAL RAPTURE POSITION (P/C 1335) is a winner. I continue to follow and hold your same position with the exception as follows: As a minister, I can say that not all who confess Christ possess Christ. One must be born-again or regenerated to enter into the kingdom of God. The Book of John, Chapter 3 says,

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Being just religious is not the same as being an "Overcomer" and possessing garments made ready. The Bible speaks volumes to the hearer of the Written Words of God. Those not made ready can thank God for His grace in giving those not ready a second chance to become an "Overcomer when they go through the Tribulation." Those that already have became an "Overcomer" prior to the Pre-Tribulation Rapture will experience the Pre-Tribulation Rapture. Who are these folks? I don't know. We should however pray daily to be found worthy that "The God of Peace sanctify each of us wholly; and that all of our whole spirit, soul, and body be converted, preserved, and found blameless at the coming of our LORD Jesus Christ. We are, I believe, reaped (pre-trib/post-trib as to what we sow today.

My reply

I agree with you. We must be born again.

Rom 10:9 says, "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved." Mt 10:32 says, "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven."

According to Mt. 24:48-51, evil servants (i.e., believers who need to wash their robes in the blood of Christ by confessing their sins committed after accepting Christ; 1 John 1:9) and pretenders will both be weeping and gnashing their teeth when they are cut off and left behind at the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture.

Mt. 24:48-51 says, "But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Luke 12:45-46 also tells us that the evil servant will be cut off. It says, "But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will APPOINT HIM HIS PORTION WITH THE UNBELIEVERS."

Having a "portion with the unbelievers" places the evil servant in the Tribulation. That's why the Tribulation saints "have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb" in Rev. 7:14.

In "Things to Come," Dwight Pentecost does not think Mt. 24:41,42 applies to the church. He said, "Matthew 24:41-42, 'Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.' Again, this passage is in that discourse in which the Lord outlines His program for Israel, who is already in the tribulation period. The one taken is taken to judgment and the one left is left for the millennial blessing. Such is not the prospect for the church."

I disagree. The church had already been introduced. Mt 16:18 says, "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter (Petros, a little rock), and upon this rock (petra) I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Mt 18:17 says, "And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican."

When sitting on the Mt. of Olives, the "disciples", i.e., believers, questioned Jesus. They said, "Tell us, when shall these things be: and what shall be the sign of thy coming: and of the end of the world (lit., age)?" Jesus sketched things up to the end of the age, when the elect are gathered from one end of Heaven to the other (v. 31). Then, with the parable of the fig tree, he dropped back to the time of the Six-Day War, when Israel grew leaves (Gaza Strip, Sinai, Golen Heights and West Bank) and the last generation.

In Mt 24, from the Six-Day War on, Jesus was talking about the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture. In v. 51, some evil servants, believers wearing soiled robes, will be left behind.

Mt. 25:10 shows that those wise virgins caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture are the Bride of Christ. It says, "And while they (the foolish virgins) went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready (the wise virgins) went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut." From the "doors" in Mt. 24:33 to "the door was shut" in Mt. 25:10, it refers to the time of the last generation and the Pre-Trib Rapture.

Mt. 25:11-14 refers to the foolish virgins (i.e., believers with soiled robes). They were included when Jesus spoke of "his own servants". Mt. 25:11-14 says, "Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. (They knew who he was.) But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. For the kingdom of heaven is as a man travelling into a far country, who called HIS OWN SERVANTS, and delivered unto them his goods." Agape

The Day of Christ and the Two Days of the Son of Man

By Marilyn Agee

In "Things to Come," Dwight Pentecost said, "The word day as used in Scripture is not necessarily a time word, but may be used for the events which fall within any period. Paul so uses it in 2 Corinthians 6:2, when he speaks of the 'day of salvation.' Some, failing to see this, have felt that because Scripture mentions 'the Day of the Lord' and the 'Day of Christ' these two must come at two different periods of time, usually saying that the 'Day of Christ' refers to events of the tribulation period and the 'Day of the Lord' refers to events related to the second advent and the millennium to follow. Certainly two different programs are in view in these two days, but they may fall within the same time area. Thus the two days may have the same beginning, even though two different programs are in view. It may be that in 1 Corinthians 1:8 reference is made to 'the day of the Lord Jesus Christ' to show that He is related to both of these days, being both 'Lord and Christ' (Acts 2:36)."

I think the Day of Christ is the "blessed hope" of the believer, the day of the Pre-Trib Rapture. The first Day of the Son of Man is also the day of the Pre-Trib Rapture. The second Day of the Son of Man is the day of the Pre-Wrath Rapture. That is also the Day of the Lord.

The first Day of the Son of Man is as the days of Noah. Rain fell that day, and they were ALL married. The second Day of the Son of Man is as the days of Lot. Fire fell that day, and Lot's wife was turned into a pillar of salt.

It looks like all of the saints caught up to Heaven in the first Rapture are wise virgins who make up the Bride of Christ. Only the Bride of Christ sings the NEW SONG. Rev. 5:8-10 says, "...saints. And they sung a NEW SONG, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on (epi, or over) the earth.

Of the group caught up to Heaven in the second Rapture, only the 144,000 Israelites are added to the Bride group. Rev. 14:1-5 says, "I looked, and, lo, a Lamb stood on the mount Sion, and with him an hundred forty and four thousand, having his Father's name written in their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven, as the voice of many waters, and as the voice of a great thunder: and I heard the voice of harpers harping with their harps: And THEY SUNG AS IT WERE A NEW SONG before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and NO MAN COULD LEARN THAT SONG BUT THE HUNDRED AND FORTY AND FOUR THOUSAND, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for THEY ARE VIRGINS. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the FIRSTFRUITS unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for THEY ARE WITHOUT FAULT before the throne of God."

The new song leads us to Psa 149:1-9 for more information. It says, "Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a NEW SONG, and his praise in the congregation of saints. Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King. Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp. For the LORD taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation. Let the saints be joyful in glory (i.e., in Heaven): LET THEM SING aloud upon their beds. Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a twoedged sword in their hand; To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people; To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron; To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the LORD."

Psa 40:2,3 says, "He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock (Heaven), and established my goings (i.e., the two Raptures). And he hath put a NEW SONG in my mouth, even praise unto our God: MANY SHALL SEE IT (the Rapture), and fear, and shall trust in the LORD."

1 Cor 1:3-8 calls the DAY OF CHRIST the DAY OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST. It says, "Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ; That in every thing ye are enriched by him, in all utterance, and in all knowledge; Even as the testimony of Christ was confirmed in you: that ye come behind in no gift; waiting for THE COMING OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST: Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in THE DAY OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST."

Phil 1:6,10 says, "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until THE DAY OF JESUS CHRIST:...That ye may approve things that are excellent; that ye may be sincere and without offence till THE DAY OF CHRIST".

Phil 2:16 says, "Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in THE DAY OF CHRIST, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain."

2 Thess 2:2-4 (Geneva Bible) says, "That ye be not suddenly mooued from your minde, nor troubled neither by spirit, nor by worde, nor by letter, as it were from vs, as though THE DAY OF CHRIST (it should be the Day of the Lord as in the ISV) were at hand. Let no man deceiue you by any meanes: for that day shall not come, except there come a DEPARTING (i.e., the Pre-Trib Rapture) first, and that that man of sinne be disclosed (Mid-Trib), euen the sonne of perdition (i.e., the Satan-possessed False Prophet), Which is an aduersarie, and exalteth him selfe against all that is called God, or that is worshipped: so that he doeth sit as God in the Temple of God, shewing him selfe that he is God."

The Geneva Bible and the King James Version have "the day of Christ" in 2 Thess 2:2, but important manuscripts found later, The Sinaitic Codex, the Vatican Codex, and the Alexandrine Codex, show that "the Day of the Lord" is correct. The departing in the Pre-Trib Rapture comes before the Day of the Lord, which is also the Day of God's Wrath.

Luke 17:22,26 says, "And he said unto the disciples, The days (plural) will come, when ye shall desire to see ONE OF THE DAYS OF THE SON OF MAN (i.e., the Pre-Trib Rapture), and ye shall not see it....And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in THE DAYS (plural, i.e., the Pre-Trib Rapture and the Pre-Wrath Rapture) OF THE SON OF MAN."

2 Tim 4:7,8 says, "I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at THAT DAY (i.e., the Pre-Trib Rapture): and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing."

2 Cor 1:14 calls the DAY OF CHRIST the DAY OF THE LORD JESUS. It says, "As also ye have acknowledged us in part, that we are your rejoicing, even as ye also are ours in THE DAY OF THE LORD JESUS."

Incoming e-mail, Re: Jubilees, Temple destroyed

thank you for your reply.

> > Figuring forward from 28 AD, I found that these would be Jubilee Years, 1939, 1988, and 2037 AD.

Isnít it remarkable that the two most profound events of the twentieth century i.e. World War II (Sept. 3 1939) and the collapse of the Iron Curtin (Russia withdraws from Europe, first free election in Russia) begin on 1939 and 1988 respectively, Jubilee Years! I suspect 2037 will be very eventful as well. WW2 caused the return of the Jews to Israel, starting at the end of the war and leading to the birth of that nation 3 years later. The collapse of the Soviet Union opened the way for Jews to come from the North countries to the Mountains of Israel as Jeremiah prophesied. Both events point to Godís shaping the world for the return of his son Jesus.

*The Jubilee Year started on the following Nisan 1 (28 AD). That last Jubilee of the Bible was supremely important. The Savior was teaching on Earth.

I think the Holy Spirit is causing this to happen in our day! He said he will pour out his spirit on all flesh.

May I suggest an adjustment to your timeline? There seems to be an 83 year error that I simply cannot understand.

> > Old Testament Bible Chronology
> > by M.J. Agee:

> > 3521 AH = 522 BC First year of Nebuchadnezzar as Sole-Rex, 4th year of Jehoiakim

> > 3539 AH 11th and last year of Zedekiah Ö Jerusalem was taken by Nebuchadnezzar Ö in 19th year of Nebuchadnezzar. Ö Temple burned.

> > 522 Ė 18 (19th year inclusive) = 504

504 BC. This is the year the temple was destroyed?

This doesnít align with any historical or Biblical evidence that I have ever seen. Recently historians have analyzed the astronomical records of solar and lunar eclipses and their associated events. These eclipses verify much of the record in the Babylonian and Persian Chronicles. The chronicle of Nebuchadnezzar places his first year at 605 BC. If we use the 522 BC date we basically have to abandon all the archeological evidence along with the histories of Ptolemy, Josephus, Sir Isaac Newton, Ussher, and Scaliger. Is there any evidence to support this date? If not, why not adjust the timeline accordingly?

We know there were about 400 years of scriptural silence shortly after the rule of Nehemiah. 425 years are recorded from Darius II (the Persian king after Nehemiah) to the death of Herod the Great. All of this time period has a record of the Persian, Greek, and Roman occupiers of Israel. They are listed by the Kings and the years of their rule. If we take away the 425 years of recorded kings after Nehemiah from the 504 years at the time the Temple was destroyed, we are left with 79 years. How can you reconcile the remaining:

25 years of Nebuchadnezzar

Plus the:

6 years of Evil Merodach

16 years of Nabonidus/Belshazzar

17 years of Cyrus and Cambyses rule of Babylon

36 years of Darius I

21 years of Xerxes and Esther

39 years of Artaxerxes and Nehemiah

A TOTAL of 160 years Ė Note: 425+160=585 this accounts for all but 2 years.

At the time of the temple's destruction we enter the era of well established ancient history. There is little if any doubt that the temple was destroyed in 587 BC, some debate that it could have been 586 BC. Even given some variability it could not be off by more than 1 or 2 years.

I would understand if you are reluctant to change a work with so much time and effort invested, but in everything there is a little room for improvement. Respectfully

My reply

Thanks for reminding me of the things that happened in 1939 and 1988.

> > I think the Holy Spirit is causing this to happen in our day! He said he will pour out his spirit on all flesh.

I am sure he pours out his spirit whenever it fits his plan. I have seen it work. Things like Joel 2:22-32 seem to throw their shadows before them. Back in the late 60s and early 70s, there was an outpouring of the Holy Spirit. It seemed to start on the west coast and sweep the country to the east coast. Several young people came to my house to study the Bible with me. I didn't set it up or even set a time. It just happened. It seems to have started about a year after Israel fought the Six-Day War. These young people came and went as they pleased, but they were hungry to study the Bibles they carried around with them.

I like that passage in Joel 2:23-32. It's packed with information. It says, "Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately (Jesus was born on Tishri 1, the time of the former rain, Hosea 6:3), and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month (Jesus will come the second time on Nisan 1, the time of the latter rain and the 1st day of the Regnal and Sacred Year). And the floors shall be full of wheat, and the fats shall overflow with wine and oil. And I will restore to you the years that the locust hath eaten, the cankerworm, and the caterpiller, and the palmerworm, my great army which I sent among you. And ye shall eat in plenty, and be satisfied, and praise the name of the LORD your God, that hath dealt wondrously with you: and my people shall never be ashamed. And ye shall know that I am in the midst of Israel (after the Second Advent), and that I am the LORD your God, and none else: and my people shall never be ashamed. And it shall come to pass afterward (i.e., after the Second Advent), that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit. And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke (this is 7 months before the Second Advent, Eze. 39:12,13). The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible DAY OF THE LORD come (on the Feast of Trumpets). And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered (i.e., in the Pre-Wrath Rapture): for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call."

> > May I suggest an adjustment to your timeline? There seems to be an 83 year error that I simply cannot understand.

Of course you can suggest an adjustment. I would like to have it correct, you know. The thing that strikes me right away is that Martin Anstey found an 82-year mistake in a list of Persian kings. I assume that it was Ptolemy's list. That would explain the difference. I read about it in Anstey's "Romance of Bible Chronology."

I don't live close to BIOLA's library now, and can't leave my 83-year old husband with Parkinson's Disease long enough to make the trip. I'm 78 and don't drive that far anymore, either. At this point, I'll have to take your word on these things. I sure appreciate your help. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Encourage One Another as you see the Day Approaching

You are so often in my prayers in the middle of the night or in the early morning hours. I pray now especially for your encouragement and Ed's as we see that day approaching. Over the years, since the early 90's, I have anticipated each posting and never been disappointed in your gleanings! You will be so honored on that bema bench day! My respect and empathy grow for you and Ed with each day. Know that there are many who think as I do but do not write for one reason or another...we just know that the time is extremely close and we will all cling to Him until we see face to face our Lord and one another!

Much Ongoing Agape

My reply

Thanks much.

Incoming e-mail

I donít know who sent you the following quote that you included in P&C 1336 but I say ditto. You have taught me and helped me understand Godís Word and for that I say thank you from the bottom of my heart. says the picture of Godís Hands is a hoax but even so itís a helpful reminder to know that God is in control and he loves us so much that he sent his only begotten son to die for our sins so one day we can be with him forever. I can hardly wait but wait I will because I love him and want to be with him forever.

ďThank you SO very much for freely sharing the information you've gleaned from your many years of diligent, dedicated Bible study along with supplemental study books, too numerous for me to even comment about intelligently...You certainly are a workman who needeth not be ashamed! We who enjoy your website have been greatly encouraged with the blessed hope of the glorious appearing of Jesus & I certainly intend to thank you in person at some point after the rapture...Naturally our total thanks go to Jesus Christ for our salvation, but I would suppose it is fine with Him that we recognize & appreciate His dedicated servants, such as yourself...Hope to see you VERY soon!!!Ē

My reply

Thanks for your kind words.

Incoming e-mail, Re: EXCLUSIVE: Rabbi Reveals Name of the Messiah

From: israel today - May 20, 2007

A few months before he died, one of the nation's most prominent rabbis, Yitzhak Kaduri, supposedly wrote the name of the Messiah on a small note which he requested would remain sealed until now. When the note was unsealed, it revealed what many have known for centuries: Yehoshua, or Yeshua (Jesus), is the Messiah. With the biblical name of Jesus, the Rabbi and kabbalist described the Messiah using six words and hinting that the initial letters form the name of the Messiah. .The secret note said:

Concerning the letter abbreviation of the Messiah's name, He will lift the people and prove that his word and law are valid. I have signed in the month of mercy, Yitzhak Kaduri

The Hebrew sentence (translated above in bold) with the hidden name of the Messiah reads: Yarim Ha'Am Veyokhiakh Shedvaro Vetorato Omdim

The initials spell the Hebrew name of Jesus, Yehoshua. Yehoshua and Yeshua are e.ectively the same name, derived from the same Hebrew root of the word "salvation" as documented in Zechariah 6:11 and Ezra 3:2. .The same priest writes in Ezra, "Yeshua son of Yozadak" while writing in Zechariah "Yehoshua son of Yohozadak." .The priest adds the holy abbreviation of God's name, ho, in the father's name Yozadak and in the name Yeshua.

With one of Israel's most prominent rabbis indicating the name of the Messiah is Yeshua, it is understandable why his last wish was to wait one year after his death before revealing what he wrote.

When the name of Yehoshua appeared in Kaduri's message, ultra-Orthodox Jews from his Nahalat Yitzhak Yeshiva (seminary) in Jerusalem argued that their master did not leave the exact solution for decoding the Messiah's name.

The revelation received scant coverage in the Israeli media. Only the Hebrew websites News First Class (Nfc) and mentioned the Messiah note, insisting it was authentic. .The Hebrew daily Ma'ariv ran a story on the note but described it as a forgery.

Jewish readers responded on the websites' forums with mixed feelings: "So this means Rabbi Kaduri was a Christian?" and "The Christians are dancing and celebrating," were among the comments.

Israel Today spoke to two of Kaduri's followers in Jerusalem who admitted that the note was authentic, but confusing for his followers as well. "We have no idea how the Rabbi got to this name of the Messiah," one of them said.

Yet others completely deny any possibility that the note is authentic. Kaduri's son, Rabbi David Kaduri, said that at the time the note was written (September 2005), his father's physical condition made it impossible for him to write.


A few months before Kaduri died at the age of 108, he surprised his followers when he told them that he met the Messiah. Kaduri gave a message in his synagogue on Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, teaching how to recognize the Messiah. He also mentioned that the Messiah would appear to Israel after Ariel Sharon's death. (The former prime minister is still in a coma after suffering a massive stroke more than a year ago.)

Other rabbis predict the same, including Rabbi Haim Cohen, kabbalist Nir Ben Artzi and the wife of Rabbi Haim Kneiveskzy.

Kaduri's grandson, Rabbi Yosef Kaduri, said his grandfather spoke many times during his last days about the coming of the Messiah and redemption through the Messiah.

His spiritual portrayals of the Messiah-reminiscent of New Testament accounts-were published on the websites and Nfc:

"It is hard for many good people in society to understand the person of the Messiah. The leadership and order of a Messiah of .flesh and blood is hard to accept for many in the nation. As leader, the Messiah will not hold any office, but will be among the people and use the media to communicate. His reign will be pure and without personal or political desire. During his dominion, only righteousness and truth will reign.

"Will all believe in the Messiah right away? No, in the beginning some of us will believe in him and some not. It will be easier for non-religious people to follow the Messiah than for Orthodox people.

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