Pro and Con 1359

Posted 9-20-07

On Five Doves site: Friedrich Wenz (14 Sep 2007) ""2007" - Part 5 (2007/5768: "This Year...!")"

What a coincidence of time: In Israel the new moon sighted, and here in Germany almost same time, shofar sounds and Jewish music, however, seemingly no one did “catch” it...

After the applause they presented the bonus song – which is a prayer, he said and added: “Let us pray our last song with our whole heart and soul !”

I was surprised and shocked when I heard the song title:

“The Messiah comes this year!”...

Peruvians get sick from apparent meteorite crater

By Teresa Cespedes - Sep 18, 2007

LIMA (Reuters) - Dozens of people living in a Peruvian town near Lake Titicaca reported vomiting and headaches after they went to look at a crater apparently left by a meteorite that crashed down over the weekend, health officials said on Tuesday.

After hearing a loud noise, people went to see what had happened and found a crater 65 feet wide and 22 feet deep on an uninhabited plateau near Carancas in the Puno region.

Interesting: National Geographic's Photo Gallery: New 7 Wonders vs. Ancient 7 Wonders

Incoming e-mail

By Michael Ireland

9-13-2007 - Mid East: 500,000 Palestinians and Israelis unite to demand uninterrupted negotiations, two-state solution
Deadline approaching: Masses demand two states by October 18, 2008...

76 percent of both Israelis and Palestinians are in favor of a two-state solution, and would be willing to compromise to live in strong, independent, stable states at peace with their neighbors.

Building off these Citizens Negotiations is the OneVoice mandate, which calls upon the region’s elected representatives to:

**Recognize the right of both peoples to independence, sovereignty, freedom, justice, dignity, respect, national security, personal safety, and economic viability,

Series of quakes rock Indonesia coast

September 14, 2007

Incoming e-mail, Re:

Indonesian Quakes Trigger Tsunami Alerts

Sep 13, 12:23 PM (ET)


(AP) A man sits on debris swept ashore by tsunami following an earthquake in Muara Maras, Bengkulu,...

PADANG, Indonesia (AP) - Indonesia was shaken Thursday by the third powerful earthquake in less than 24 hours, and survivors described watching in horror as the ocean retreated and raced back to shore as a 10-foot-high tsunami.

Hundreds of houses were destroyed and panicked residents fled to the hills.

At least 10 people were killed in the quakes, which were followed by dozens of aftershocks.

The 8.4-magnitude quake that first shook Southeast Asia on Wednesday was the strongest this year. But the huge mass of water it spawned was pushed to sea rather than land, said Mike Turnbull, a seismologist at Australia's Central Queensland University.

"It's a quirk of nature that this is how it happened," he said. "It could have quite easily have been the other way."

Incoming e-mail, Re: The Bride of Christ

Could you clarify the difference between the “Bride of Christ” and the “Body of Christ”? I have always thought that the “Body of Christ” represents all the people who profess Jesus Christ as Saviour; but the “Bride of Christ” is a “subset” of the “Body of Christ”. The “Bride of Christ” are those Christians who intensely love the LORD and have been living righteous lives. The “Bride of Christ” will be married to Christ at the wedding feast in Revelation, but the rest of the “Body of Christ” will simply attend the wedding as guests. What do you think?

My reply

I agree with you.

I think the parable of the ten virgins (Mt. 25:1f) tells the tale. Those with enough oil of the Holy Spirit will go with the Bridegroom when he comes before the Tribulation.

2 Peter 1:2-11 makes it clear too. It says, "Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord, According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: THAT BY THESE YE MIGHT BE PARTAKERS OF THE DIVINE NATURE, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust. And beside this, giving all diligence, ADD TO YOUR FAITH virtue; and to virtue knowledge; And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But he that lacketh these things is blind (like the Laodiceans), and cannot see afar off (Heaven), and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins (i.e., when he accepted Christ as his Saviour). Wherefore the rather, brethren (believers), give diligence to make YOUR CALLING AND ELECTION SURE: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall: For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ."

Right after the Pre-Trib Rapture, Rev. 17:14 says, "they that are with him (the Lamb of God, Christ) are CALLED, AND CHOSEN, AND FAITHFUL."

The Bride wears white. Mt 22:1-14 says, "Jesus answered and spake unto them again by parables, and said, The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son, And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come. Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage. But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise: And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them. But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a WEDDING GARMENT? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For MANY ARE CALLED, BUT FEW ARE CHOSEN."

We want to be among the chosen. Rev 19:7,8 says, "Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness (lit., righteousnesses) of saints."

Rev 3:14-19 warns the Laodiceans. Jesus said, "And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen (meaning so be it, i.e., the creator), the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God; "I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and WHITE RAIMENT, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent."

1 John 1:5-9 is important for us to understand. It says, "This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light (i.e., sinless), and in him is no darkness (i.e., sin) at all. If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from ALL SIN. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Ascension day

BTW, this issue of BAR is excellent. Major trial going on in Israel soon about forged artefacts. Word has it the James Ossuary and the pomegranite will very likely be ruled genuine and the Jehoash (sp?) inscription will probably be ruled genuine. A $50,000 reward is offered for the arrest and conviction of the forger (if any) of the inscription by BAR. They are trying to shake someone loose, if there is someone. Also lengthy articles on the Dead Sea Scrolls which is what I wanted to ask you about.

Do you know anything about the "war" scroll? It discusses preparations for the priests to make for an upcoming series of battles between the sons of darkness and the sons of light. The sons of light do not win every battle, only God's supernatural intervention saves the day. Sounds prophetic to me! In fact, sounds a lot like battle that kicks off the Trib!

My reply

I don't know anything about the war scroll.

> > sounds a lot like battle that kicks off the Trib

What battle kicks off the Trib?

Dan 9:27 tells about the strengthened peace treaty at the beginning of the Tribulation. It says, "And he (the prince that shall come) shall confirm the covenant with many (probably including the UN) for one week (of years): and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease (by sitting in the Temple 'shewing himself that he is God', II Thess. 2:4), and for the overspreading of abominations (idols) he shall make it (the Temple) desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate" (or desolator).

Rev. 6:1-4 tells about the first two seals being broken. When the first one is broken at the beginning of the Tribulation, it doesn't mention war as the means of conquering. The Beast (Tribulation Pope) will probably use peaceful verbal persuasion at first to try to get all religions to join the world church. War comes at the second seal, which I figure is about one year into the Tribulation.

Rev. 6:1-4 explains, "I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see. And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow (toxon, a bow of simple fabric, i.e., he is a man of the cloth, a religious leader, probably the Tribulation Pope); and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer. And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see. And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword."

I realize that some people say the Gog and Magog war of Eze. 38 comes at the beginning of the Tribulation, but that has to come at the end when God's wrath is poured out on Earth to stop it. Every wall will fall--worldwide. The cities of the nations will be destroyed, including Babylon.

Eze. 38:18-23 says, "it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel (on the Day of God's Wrath), saith the Lord GOD, that MY FURY shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy and in the fire of MY WRATH have I spoken, Surely in that day (Feast of Trumpets) there shall be a great shaking (from the asteroid of Rev. 8:8 impacting the Mediterranean Sea) in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake (in the worldwide earthquake) at my presence (the day the Sign of the Son of Man is seen in the sky), and the mountains (i.e., asteroids) shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground. And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother. And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone (as in the days of Lot). Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the EYES of many nations (when they see the Sign of the Son of Man in the sky), and they shall know that I am the LORD."

Rev 16:18-20 is about that day. It says, "And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city (Jerusalem) was divided into three parts, and THE CITIES OF THE NATIONS FELL: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found."

Rev. 18:21 says of that day, "And a mighty angel took up a stone (an asteroid, Rev. 8:10,11) like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all." Agape

From 5 Doves site

Stephen Yulish (20 Sep 2007)
"Yom Kippur trivia that will give you goosebumps-guaranteed!!"

During the High Holy Day of Yom Kippur, the High Priest went into the Holy of Holies in the Temple to sprinkle sacrificial blood on the Mercy Seat of the Ark to cleanse the sins of the people of Israel. A crimson cloth was placed on the outside of the Holy of Holies which would turn white when the process worked and it always did. It always did until forty years before the destruction of the Temple, when according to the Jews own Talmud (Yoma 39 a&b and Rosh Hashanah 312b), this crimson cloth stopped turning white. Also, the lot that the High Priest picked for the goat to be sacrificed (scapegoat-azazel) ceased coming up in his right hand and began coming up in his left hand for the first time. Also, according to the rabbis own commentary (Talmud) the western light would not keep burning as before and the doors of the Temple would no longer open by themselves! What happened forty years before the destruction of the Temple in 70 AD? Jesus the Christ died for our sins once and for all around 30 AD. He became the scarlet thread of salvation. By His blood, our sins are washed away and we are white as snow. The Temple and its blood sacrifices of goats and bulls were no longer needed to cleanse us of our sins. Jesus is all we need. He is our High Priest as scripture says!
Now,isn't that amazing!

My reply

Thanks for the reminder.

First, the 483 years of Dan. 9 ended when Jesus read Isa. 61:1,2 in the synagogue at Nazareth in 27 AD. He read, " The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon me; because the LORD hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound. To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD" He stopped there, without reading, "and the day of vengeance of our God".

Luke 4:18-21 tells us about that day. It says, "The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, TO PREACH THE ACCEPTABLE YEAR OF THE LORD. And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. And he began to say unto them, THIS DAY IS THIS SCRIPTURE FULFILLED IN YOUR EARS." That should have told them that Jesus was the Messiah.

It was the Day of Atonement (Tishri 10) that was near Jesus' 30th birthday (Tishri 1) in 27 AD, a Sabbatic Year. He was announcing the Jubilee Year which would start the following Nisan 1 (28 AD).

On Thursday, Nisan 13, the preparation of the Passover, in 30 AD, Jesus was crucified, and the 40-year countdown to the destruction of the Temple began. The signs that happened in those days should have told them that Jesus was the Messiah.

Eze 4:6 fortold these 40 years. It says, "And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year." Considering the sign in 27 AD and subtracting the 40 years from 70 AD, we can be sure that the Crucifixion was in 30 AD.

The Time Period of Revelation Two and Three

By Marilyn Agee

In "Things to Come" (p. 150), Dwight Pentecost said,

> > "The time period of Revelation two and three. John, in the book of Revelation, is writing concerning things that were past, things that are present, and things that are future (Rev. 1:19). Scott writes:
> > The great divisions of the book are here written for the instruction of the Church of God. "What thou hast seen" refers to the vision of Christ just beheld (verses 12-16). "The things that are" refer to the several successive, broadly-defined features of the professing Church and of Christ's relation thereto, till its final rejection, not yet accomplished (chaps. 2 and 3). "The things that are about to be after these things." In this third division, the world and the Jews, and, we may add, the corrupt and apostate Church, i.e., that which is to be "apued out," are embraced in this strictly prophetic part of the Apocalypse (4--22:5).

> > Nothing has more contributed to throw discredit on prophetic studies, than the erroneous principle on which it has been sought to interpret this book. Here is the key for its interpretation hanging at the door; take it down, use it, and enter in. There is simplicity and consistency in apportioning the main contents of the book to a past, a present, and a future.
> > "It would seem evident, then, that John, in writing to the seven churches, is depicting this present age from the inception of the church to the judgment of the apostate church prior to the second advent. Thus the period of time covered by these chapters would essentially parallel the period covered by Matthew thirteen."

To me, a breakthrough in understanding the last book of the Bible came when I realized that The Revelation of Jesus Christ was written as if the Rapture was nigh. It is nigh in both the first and last chapters.

Rev. 1:3 says, "Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep (tereo, 'to reserve: to undergo something' [Thayer] those things which are written therein: for THE TIME IS AT HAND." Blessed is he that keeps, undergoes, or takes part in, the Pre-Trib Rapture.

Rev. 22:10-12 says, "Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for THE TIME (i.e., of the Pre-Trib Rapture) IS AT HAND (i.e., 10 days away). He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still. And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his WORK shall be." We cannot work for salvation, but we can work for rewards, and to be able to participate in the Rapture is a reward.

Jesus comes quickly at the Rapture. That is when he comes as the Bridegroom and the wise virgins having enough oil of the Holy Spirit in their vessels (bodies) go with him (Mt. 25:1f). Rev 22:20 says, "He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus."

Mt. 25:10-12 says, "the bridegroom came; and they that were ready (the wise virgins) went in with him to the marriage: and THE DOOR WAS SHUT. Afterward came also the other virgins (the foolish ones not having enough oil of the Holy Spirit in their bodies), saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not." Those are cut off until the Pre-Wrath Rapture.

Rev. 1:19,20 says, "Write the things which thou hast seen (i.e., before the Rapture), and the things which ARE (at the time of the Rapture), and the things which shall be hereafter (after the Rapture); The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars ARE (i.e., at the Raptue) the angels of the seven churches (they are in his hand, because he has just caught them up): and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest ARE the seven churches."

John had just seen the candlesticks in Heaven in the Preview of The Revelation of Jesus Christ. Rev. 1:10-16 says, "I was (lit., became) in the Spirit on the Lord's day (i.e., John was raptured, caught up to Heaven on the Day of the Lord Jesus Christ, the Pre-Trib Rapture, not the Day of the Lord, the day of the Pre-Wrath Rapture), and heard behind me a great voice, as of a TRUMPET (the "trump of God" of I Thess. 4:16), Saying, I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last: and, What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the seven churches which are in Asia; unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamos, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea. And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And being turned, I saw seven golden candlesticks; And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about the paps with a golden girdle (symbol of deity). His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength."

The twoedged sword is to cut off the foolish virgins and leave them behind. Luke 12:46 says, "The lord of that servant (the unwise one) will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him his portion (i.e., the Tribulation) with the unbelievers."

Mt. 24:51 adds, "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." The Laodiceans spewed out of his mouth will weep and gnash their teeth.

Much later in my studies, I could finally see that Revelation was probably written as if the Pre-Trib Rapture was just ten days future. Rev 2:10,11 says, "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation TEN DAYS: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches". It looks like the crowns are to be given ten days after this.

Rev. 4:1-4 says, "After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a TRUMPET talking with me; which said, COME UP HITHER, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter. And immediately I was (lit., became) in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone (i.e., the FIRST and LAST stones in the breastplate): and there was a rainbow (i.e., Saturn's rings) round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald (stone of Judah). And round about the throne were four and twenty seats (thrones): and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads CROWNS of gold."

John is one of the 24 elders (12 patriarchs and 12 apostles), all of which are resurrected in the Pre-Trib Rapture. Heb 11:40 says, "God having provided some better thing for us, that they (Old Testament saints) without us (New Testament saints) should not be made perfect."

Jesus had no words of condemnation for the Philadelphian church. In Rev 3:8-13, Jesus says to them, "I know thy WORKS: behold, I have set before thee an OPEN DOOR, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name. Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth. Behold, I COME QUICKLY: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown. Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name. He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."

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Updated 9-20-07