Pro and Con 1360

Posted 9-23-07

Olmert: We have partner for peace

By Ronny Sofer,2506,L-3451885,00.html

"For many years we made do with declaring that 'there is no partner' (for peace), but now all signs indicate that there is," Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said Thursday during a Kadima faction meeting....

We can't be blind to the fact that the elected leader of the Palestinian people, President Mahmoud Abbas, believes as we do that the solution to the conflict is only through negotiation.

According to Olmert, in the last few months of meetings he and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas have managed to establish trust and to think together about how to bridge the rifts between the two peoples. In their most recent meeting, he said, the two decided on a small team charged with drafting a joint statement that will reflect the understanding reached thus far.

"if we will succeed in drafting such a joint statement, it will greatly contribute to the success of the international summit in the US in November," Olmert said.

Incoming e-mail, Re: StarDate Online

Close Encounter

can you think of a fitting bible passage for the picture and article at the attached link? i would appreciate a reply. thank you very much

My reply

Wow! One of the wonders of the Universe. What a picture of Iapetus, one of the moons of Saturn. It was probably formed by accretion. The body forming turns out to be a sphere, because each particle tries to get as close to the center of gravity as possible.... (see exception below)

Earth has been hit by asteroids before. I think our Moon came from Earth's Pacific Basin. Earth will get hit again by rocks set free when an incoming binary asteroid breaks apart at the Roche Limit. No wonder Psa 104:30 says, "Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth." Earth will need renewing after the asteroid impacts on the Day of God's Wrath. Agape

Imagine my surprise to find this tonight on Astronomy Picture of the Day, 9-15-07 - it isn't quite a perfect sphere

Explanation: This bizarre, equatorial ridge extending across and beyond the dark, leading hemisphere of Iapetus gives the two-toned Saturnian moon a distinct WALNUT SHAPE. With red/blue glasses you can check out a remarkable stereo composition of this extraordinary feature -- based on close-up images from this week's Cassini spacecraft flyby. In fact, the ridge's combination of equatorial symmetry and scale, about 20 kilometers wide and reaching up to 20 kilometers above the surface, is not known to be duplicated anywhere else in our solar system. The unique feature was discovered in Cassini images from 2004. It appears to be heavily cratered and therefore ancient, but the origin of the equatorial ridge on Iapetus remains a mystery.

Incoming e-mail, Re: The Jubilee coinciding dates with the calendar, Holy Days and the Bible

Dates by Crystal Kazynski (presentation mine, I couldn't draw in her lines)


JUNE 7, 1967 - Six Day War, Israel recaptured Jerusalem



Oct 6, 2001...beginning of war with Afghanistan


Feb 2, 2005...President Bush starts 2nd term of presidency. Inaugural Address


April 18, 2005, Pope Benedict elected

(3.5 days later, April 22, 2005, world-wide celebration of the Pope)


Aug 10, 2008...Tisha B'Av

MID-POINT, Sept. 29, 2008, Beginning of Tribulation, Rapture

Rosh Hashanah, Trumpets


Nov 18, 2008, date following US Presidential election

(March 8, 2012, Purim, 2 witnesses killed in street 3.5 days before Mid-TriB)


March 12, 2012, 2 witnesses raised from the dead


May 27, 2012, Shavuot (Pentecost), Mid-Trib Rapture of believers


Sept. 23, 2015, Day of Atonement, Jesus' Second Advent,

Beginning of Jubilee, land returns to rightful owner, slaves set free,

Fall equinox, sun seasons, year 19 of metatonic cycle, moon calendar

For comparison, here are my projected dates


By Marilyn Agee


Probably Pentecost, Sivan 6, 5768 (June 9, 2008)


Sacrifice of the red heifer when she is four years old (she is 3.5 now)

Priests, purified with the ashes of the red heifer, start building the Temple after the Rapture


PENTECOST, Sivan 6, 5769 (Friday, May 29, 2009)

Beginning of the 2300 days of Dan. 8:12-14 (Jewish inclusive reckoning)

First beast begins to rule


1260th day, Heshvan 23, 5773 (Thursday, Nov. 8, 2012, by Inclusive reckoning)

False Prophet begins his reign



2300th day since May 29, 2009 (inclusive reckoning)

FEAST OF TRUMPETS, Tishri 1, 5776 (Monday, September 14, 2015)


7 Trumpet judgments sounded by angels, not God

Entire Tribulation: 6 years, 3 months, 17 days

SEVEN-MONTH GAP (Eze. 38:18-20; 39:12,13)


7 months after Day of God's Wrath in a Hebrew Leap Year

Nisan 1, 5776 (Saturday Sabbath, April 9, 2016)

From Five Doves site, Re: "Matt 24:28"

Simon (22 Sep 2007)

I have always found Matt 24: 28 [Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather] very puzzling. It seems as if it’s misplaced yet I know that it’s only because at this stage I do not understand this verse; because the Lord has put a message in this verse. Could it be referring to those meeting at the final time to divide the Land of Israel with the intention of bringing a fake peace & safety?
God bless you.

My reply

Mt. 24:28 (DRB) says, "Wheresoever the body shall be, there shall the eagles also be gathered together." This makes it easier to understand. It means that wherever the Body of Christ is (in Heaven, caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture, the first trump of God, I Thess. 4:16,17), there shall the high flying Tribulation saints be gathered (in the Pre-Wrath Rapture, the last trump of God, I Cor. 15:51,52).

Ex. 19:4 (KJV) shows what happens. It says, "Ye have seen what I did unto the Egyptians, and how I bare you on eagles' wings, and brought you unto myself."

Isa. 40:31 (KJV) is more explicit. It says, "But they that wait upon the LORD shall renew their strength; THEY SHALL MOUNT UP WITH WINGS AS EAGLES; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint."

Luke 17:34-37 (KJV) explains. Jesus said, "I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body (i.e., the Body of Christ) is (in Heaven), thither will the eagles (the Tribulation saints) be gathered together."

Those caught up to Heaven in the first Rapture will be gathered from one end of Heaven to the other at the same time that the Tribulation saints are gathered from Earth.

Mt. 24:28-31 (KJV) says, "For wheresoever the carcase (i.e., body) is, there will the eagles be gathered together. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of HEAVEN to the other."

Mark 13:27 says, "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH to the uttermost part of HEAVEN."

Thus all saints will be gathered to the general assembly in Heaven that day. Heb. 12:22,23 (KJV) says, "ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the GENERAL ASSEMBLY and church of the firstborn, which are written in HEAVEN, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect"

Although the Old Testament saints and the Church saints are caught up to Heaven in the first Rapture, they are not made perfect until the Tribulation saints are caught up. Heb. 11:40 says, "God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect."

I Cor. 15:51-53 shows that we are changed, made perfect, become immortal, when the entire Body of Christ is completely in Heaven. It says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP (i.e., the Pre-Wrath Rapture): for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and WE SHALL BE CHANGED. For this corruptible must put on incorruption (the dead are raised in incorruption), and THIS MORTAL MUST PUT ON IMMORTALITY."

1 Cor. 15:42 says, "the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption".

Rev. 11:15-18 shows us some of the things that happen at the GENERAL ASSEMBLY in Heaven on the Day of the Lord, which is also the Day of God's Wrath and the Day of the Judgment Seat of Christ. It says, "the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in HEAVEN, saying, THE KINGDOMS OF THIS WORLD ARE BECOME THE KINGDOMS OF OUR LORD, AND OF HIS CHRIST; AND HE SHALL REIGN FOR EVER AND EVER. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art (on the Day of the Lord), and wast (at the First Advent), and art to come (at the Second Advent 7 months after this, Eze. 39:f12,13); because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and THY WRATH IS COME, and the time of the dead, that they should be JUDGED, and that thou shouldest give REWARD unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth." Agape

From 5 Doves site, Re: "Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, and the Blood of Christ (with scriptures)"

Stephen Yulish (22 Sep 2007)

Yom Kippur, the Day of Atonement, and the Blood of Christ
by Stephen Yulish PhD
During the Jewish High Holy Day of Yom Kippur (tonight),the Day of Atonement (Leviticus 16:29-34), the High Priest went into the Holy of Holies in the Temple to sprinkle sacrificial blood on the Mercy Seat of the Ark to cleanse the sins of the people of Israel (Leviticus 16:20-22). A crimson cloth was placed on the outside of the Holy of Holies which would turn white when the process worked (Isaiah 1:18) and it always did. It always did until forty years before the destruction of the Temple, when according to the Jews own Talmud (rabbinic commentary),Yoma 39 a&b and Rosh Hashanah 31b, this crimson cloth stopped turning white. Also, the lot that the High Priest picked for the goat to be sacrificed to the Lord ceased coming up in his right hand and began coming up in his left hand which was the hand which always was for the scapegoat (Leviticus 16:7-10) which had all the sins placed on it and led out of town.

My reply

Thanks. With just those signs, we can tell that the Crucifixion was in 30 AD.

No signs?

By Marilyn Agee

In "Things to Come," Dwight Pentecost said, "Since the church is given the hope of an imminent return of Christ, there can be NO SIGNS given to her as to when this event will take place." (emphasis mine)

I disagree. The word "imminent" does not appear in the Bible. Luke 21:25-32 plainly says, "AND THERE SHALL BE SIGNS in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars (lit., constellations); and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring (i.e., great tsunamis); Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. AND WHEN THESE THINGS BEGIN TO COME TO PASS, THEN LOOK UP, AND LIFT UP YOUR HEADS; FOR YOUR REDEMPTION DRAWETH NIGH. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree (Israel, Joel 1:6,7), and all the trees (other nations); When they now shoot forth (i.e., Six-Day War), ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand (Six-Day War started June 6; summer began June 21). So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled."

When the string of-pearls Shoemaker-Levy comet pieces started to hit Jupiter on July 16, 1994, the whole world took notice. It was probably the most-watched astronomical event ever. Never before had man seen such a thing. How could it not be a sign?


Denis Hart (22 Sep 2007)
Jerusalem shall again be inhabited (Isaiah 44:26)

For some time I have been seeking understanding of Isaiah 44:26-28, and have been reluctant to share this as it indicates coming destruction in Jerusalem. I would like to make a few comments on these verses, and leave it for doves to meditate on. While these verses could be historic, this is not the context and they may have a future and imminent reference. I wrote recently about Psalm 83 and Message from a Bog. What has prompted me to write at this time is this: The Hal Lindsey article Prophesied destruction of Damascus imminent? (Donna Danna’s letter).

Isaiah 44:26 ‘Who says of Jerusalem, She shall again be inhabited and of the cities of Judah they shall again be built, and I will raise up their ruins. The Samson option and the foretold destruction of Damascus can only really be seen as a response to a chemical attack on Israel that could make it uninhabitable, albeit only for a short time’.

Isaiah 44:28 Speaking of Cyrus ‘even saying of Jerusalem, She shall again be built and of the temple, Your foundation shall again be laid.

My reply

Historically, Cyrus did say that Jerusalem and the Temple should be built. We have God's word on that. It looks like the decree was finally put into effect in 457 BC, because 483 years later (Dan. 9:25,26), Jesus began his ministry when he read Isa. 61:1 in the synagogue of Nazareth in the Sabbatic Year 27 AD (483-457+1=27) preceding the Jubilee Year starting Nisan 1 in 28 AD.

Luke 4:16-21 says that Jesus "came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord (i.e., the Jubilee Year). And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears."

This day would have been Tishri 10, the Day of Atonement, for that is when the Jubilee Year was to be announced. It was near his birthday, Tishri 1, the Feast of Trumpets when he became 30 years old. Luke 3:23 says, "And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age."

Re: Damascus not being a city, this, like the Gog-and-Magog War, will happen on the Day of God's Wrath, not at the beginning of the Tribulation, as some say.

That will happen on the Feast of Trumpets that is also the great and terrible Day of the Lord.

Joel 1:15 says, "Alas for the day! for the DAY OF THE LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come."

Joel 2:1-3 saus. "Blow ye the TRUMPET in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for THE DAY OF THE LORD COMETH, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; THERE HATH NOT BEEN EVER THE LIKE, NEITHER SHALL BE ANY MORE AFTER IT, even to the years of many generations. A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them."

Joel 2:11 says, "And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the DAY OF THE LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?"

Joel 2:31 says, "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and the terrible DAY OF THE LORD come."

The worldwide earthquake that will destroy the cities of the nations is mentioned in Eze. 38:18-23. It says, "it shall come to pass AT THE SAME TIME WHEN GOG SHALL COME AGAINST THE LAND OF ISRAEL, SAITH THE LORD GOD, THAT MY FURY SHALL COME UP IN MY FACE. For in my jealousy and in the fire of MY WRATH have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and ALL THE MEN THAT ARE UPON THE FACE OF THE EARTH, SHALL SHAKE at my presence (paniym, face, i.e., the Sign of the Son of Man is seen in the sky), and THE MOUNTAINS (i.e., asteroids of Rev. 8:8-11) SHALL BE THROWN DOWN, and the steep places shall fall, and EVERY WALL SHALL FALL to the ground. And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother. And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I WILL RAIN UPON HIM, AND UPON HIS BANDS, AND UPON THE MANY PEOPLE THAT ARE WITH HIM, AN OVERFLOWING RAIN, AND GREAT HAILSTONES, FIRE, AND BRIMSTONE. Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the EYES of many nations, and they shall KNOW that I am the LORD."

Of the Day of the Lord, Rev. 16:118,19 says, "there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was A GREAT EARTHQUAKE, SUCH AS WAS NOT SINCE MEN WERE UPON THE EARTH, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city (Jerusalem) was divided into three parts, and THE CITIES OF THE NATIONS FELL: AND GREAT BABYLON CAME IN REMEMBRANCE BEFORE GOD, TO GIVE UNTO HER THE CUP OF THE WINE OF THE FIERCENESS OF HIS WRATH."

Rev 6:12-17 describes that day. It says, "I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, THERE WAS A GREAT EARTHQUAKE; and the SUN BECAME BLACK as sackcloth of hair, and the MOON BECAME AS BLOOD; And the stars of heaven (i.e., flaming rocks) fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven (i.e., the smoky heavens) departed as a scroll when it is rolled together (so the Sign of the Son of Man could be seen); and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, FALL ON US, AND HIDE US FROM THE FACE OF HIM THAT SITTETH ON THE THRONE, AND FROM THE WRATH OF THE LAMB: FOR THE GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH IS COME; and who shall be able to stand?"

Only the saints that are caught up to Heaven on that day will be able to stand. The Pre-Trib Rapture will take place (Rev. 7:14), then the 7 trumpets will be given to the 7 angels in Rev. 8. They will all sound on the Feast of Trumpets.

Rev 8:5,6 says, "And the angel took the censer (globe-shaped, representing the asteroid), and filled it with fire of the altar, and CAST IT INTO THE EARTH: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, AND AN EARTHQUAKE. And the seven angels which had the seven trumpets prepared themselves to sound."

The name of the binary asteroid is Wormwood. It is Satan's home base. Rev 8:8-11 says, "the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed. And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters; And the name of the star (asteroid) is called Wormwood".

Isa. 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here (Babylon)? and whom hast thou here (the False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he (SATAN) that HEWETH HIM OUT A SEPULCHRE ON HIGH, AND THAT GRAVETH AN HABITATION FOR HIMSELF IN A ROCK? Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. HE WILL SURELY VIOLENTLY TURN AND TOSS THEE LIKE A BALL into a large country (not tiny Israel): there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. And I WILL DRIVE THEE FROM THY STATION, AND FROM THY STATE SHALL HE PULL THEE DOWN."

   Pro and Con 1361   Or Return   Home

Contact me for more information at:

Send me e-mail now

8641 Sugar Gum Rd, Riverside, CA 92508, USA; (951) 653-4110

© 1996-2007, Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 9-23-07