Pro and Con 1364

Posted 10-23-07

Ice Geysers on Saturn's moon Enceladus

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/
Enceladus ice geysers also likely produce Saturn's faint but extended E ring.

Archaeologists find link to First Temple

By ETGAR LEFKOVITS
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1192380615840&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Oct 21, 07 - Archeologists overseeing contested Islamic infrastructure work on Jerusalem's Temple Mount have stumbled upon a sealed archeological level dating back to the First Temple period, the Israel Antiquities Authority announced Sunday....

The find marks the first time that archeological remains dating back to the First Temple period have been found on the contested holy site...

The sealed archeological level, dated from the eighth to the sixth centuries BCE, was exposed at the end of August in the area close to the southeastern corner of the raised platform surrounding the Dome of the Rock, and includes fragments of ceramic tableware and animal bone.

"The layer is a closed, sealed archeological layer that has been untouched since as early as the eighth century BCE," said Yuval Baruch, the Jerusalem District archeologist for the Israel Antiquities Authority.

Scroll down at this URL to see pictures of the artifacts found on the Temple Mount

http://www.antiquities.org.il/article_Item_eng.asp?sec_id=25&subj_id=240&id=1282&module_id=#as

The finds are dated from the eighth to the sixth centuries BCE.... The finds include fragments of bowl rims, bases and body sherds; the base of a juglet used for the ladling of oil; the handle of a small juglet and the rim of a storage jar. The bowl sherds were decorated with wheel burnishing lines characteristic of the First Temple Period. In addition, a piece of a white washed handmade object was found. It may have been used to decorate a larger object or may have been part of a figurine.

Incoming e-mail, Re: Matt 24:31 Shofar clarification

Hope this finds you well as we await His soon return!

Thought this was interesting on the subject of the "sound of a trumpet" in Matthew 24:31 (from a Christian Messiah site). Shalom
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Mattit'yahu (Matthew) 24:31 in Current Translations: "And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Clarified Translation: 24:31 And He will send His angels with the sound of the Great Shofar*, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

In Judaism there are 3 shofars preserved through tradition for millennia. The first Shofar, blown on Shevuot (Pentcost) and representative of the giving of the Torah at Mt Sinai.

The Last Shofar, blown on Yom Teruach (Day of Trumpets), and representative of the resurrection.

And the Great Shofar, blown on Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement), and representative of the Day of Judgment against the world, and of redemption of God's people (the day of Yeshua's return for those who believe and understand). It is blown in introduction of the Jubilee year where all debts are cancelled, and everyone returns to his own inheritance

My reply

Thanks. It looks like the first trump will sound at the Pre-Trib Rapture on Pentecost. I Thess. 4:16,17 says, "the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with THE TRUMP OF GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP (harpazo) together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

The Pre-Wrath Rapture will be at the last trump, the Feast of Trumpets. I Cor. 15:51-53 says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, AT THE LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption (the dead are raised in incorruption at both Raptures), and this mortal must put on immortality." All the saints of both Raptures become immortal at the last trump.

The great trump blew the day Jesus stood up in the synagogue in Nazareth and read Isa. 61:1,2.

Luke 4:16-21 says, "he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears."

Jesus read this on Tishri 10, the Day of Atonement, in 27 AD. He was announcing the Jubilee Year, which would start on the following Nisan 1, in 28 AD. Luke 3:23 says, "And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age." On Tishri 10 in 27 AD, Jesus was about 30 years old. His birthday was Tishri 1, the Feast of Trumpets. He was beginning his ministry.

> > And the Great Shofar, blown on Yom Kippur (Day of Atonement), and representative of the Day of Judgment against the world, and of redemption of God's people (the day of Yeshua's return for those who believe and understand).

I think the Second Advent will follow the LAST TRUMP by 7 months. The Day of God's Wrath is on Tishri 1. We read of that day in Eze. 38:18-20. The fish in the Mediterranean Sea shake because the asteroid of Rev. 8:8 hits the sea, but the earthquake becomes world wide, because the asteroid of Rev. 8:10.11 hits Babylon. Every wall will fall worldwide. The cities of the nations will be in shambles.

Rev 16:15-21 says of the day of the last trump, the Pre-Wrath Rapture, "Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame. And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon. And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city (Jerusalem) was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great."

Remember that on the Day of God's Wrath, the great city, Jerusalem, will be divided into three parts. On the day of the Second Advent, the Mount of Olives will split in half.

Eze. 39:11-13 tells us how long the interval will be between the day of the last trump and the return of Christ. It says, "And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog. And SEVEN MONTHS shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD." The day he will be glorified is the day of the Second Advent, which will be 7 months after the Day of God's Wrath.

Concerning the day of the Second Advent, Zech. 14:4,5 says, "And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south. And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and THE LORD MY GOD SHALL COME, AND ALL THE SAINTS WITH THEE."

Seven months after the Day of God's Wrath on Tishri 1 in a Hebrew Leap Year is Nisan 1. That is a perfect time for Christ to return as KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. Nisan 1 is the first day of both the Hebrew Regnal Year and the Sacred Year. I believe Jesus will officially take office on the same day the other Hebrew kings officially took office. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: The Church In Apostasy, By Chuck Baldwin, Oct 16, 07

http://www.chuckbaldwinlive.com/c2007/cbarchive_20071016.html

"Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition." (II Thess. 2:3)

This passage of Scripture has been one of the most subjectively interpreted verses of the entire New Testament. Early Christians believed various Caesars to be the predicted "man of sin." During the Dark Ages and into the Reformation age, many Christians believed various popes to be the predicted "man of sin." In Arabia around 600 AD, many Christians believed Mohammed to be the "man of sin." During our War for Independence, many Christians believed old King George to be the "man of sin." During the Twentieth Century, many Christians wondered if Hitler or Stalin could be the dreaded "man of sin." Today, many Christians (including this writer) believe that the predicted "man of sin" is none other than a coming Antichrist.

However, regardless of one's interpretation of who the "man of sin" is, there is no doubt about Paul's prediction that before this man comes, there will be a great "falling away first." By "a falling away," Paul was clearly referring to a state or condition of "apostasy." Paul is saying that before the "man of sin" (whoever he is) will be able to seduce and deceive humanity, the church will fall into apostasy.

By definition, apostasy is the condition of those who once (in some degree) embraced the truth, but have now abandoned or forsaken it. Obviously, this applies only to professing Christians. Infidels, agnostics, and unbelievers have no profession from which to apostatize.

Accordingly, whether on a local or universal scale, before various men of sin can seduce and deceive their respective societies, the Church must first be in a state of apostasy. Saying it another way: churches that are sound in the faith, strong in truth, and steadfast in the Word serve as a resistance and retardant to evil men. No wonder the Lord Jesus said we Christians are "the salt of the earth."

That said, I am personally convinced that, by and large, the churches of America (regardless of denomination) are in a state of apostasy. And as such, offer little or no resistance to the men of sin who seek to seduce and deceive our people.

When a professing Christian President can openly acknowledge his belief in universalism and attack the supreme doctrine of Christianity, that Jesus Christ is the Creator-God become flesh, and there is not an uproar of protestation and denunciation from pulpits all over the country, the church is in a state of apostasy. And that is exactly what has taken place.

When interviewed by ABC's Charles Gibson, President George W. Bush revealed his lack of even basic understanding of Christian doctrine. Here is a verbatim transcript from that interview:

Q. "Do we all worship the same God, Christian and Muslim?" A. "I think we do. We have different routes of getting to the Almighty."
Q. "Do Christians and non-Christians and Muslims go to heaven in your mind?" A. "Yes they do. We have different routes of getting there."

Then, just a few days ago, President Bush, in an interview with Al Arabiya television, said, "I believe in an almighty God, and I believe that all the world, whether they be Muslim, Christian, or any other religion, prays to the same God." In the same interview he said, "I believe there is a universal God. I believe the God that the Muslim prays to is the same God that I pray to. After all, we all came from Abraham. I believe in that universality."

Obviously, George W. Bush is a universalist. His confession is not that of a Christian, but that of a universalist. Any true Christian knows that there is but one mediator between God and man: Christ Jesus. Any true Christian knows that Jesus is the incarnate God--the Creator-God become flesh. Any true Christian knows that Jesus and the Father are one. Any true Christian knows that there is salvation in no other name, no other god. Any true Christian knows that no one has access to God except through Jesus Christ. Any true Christian knows that there is no God other than Jesus: that Jesus is the fullness of the Godhead bodily. That is Christianity 101.

With the above understanding and because President Bush claims to be a Christian, his statements should be regarded by Christians everywhere as an admission of apostasy and an attack upon the fundamental doctrine of Christ. Yet, there has been no reaction. No admonishments. No calls for repentance. No warnings to Christians to reject such heresy. No protestations whatsoever. Why? There is only one answer: the church itself is in a state of apostasy!

I will say it plainly: today's pastors and Christians seem to display more loyalty and devotion to George W. Bush than they do to the Lord Jesus Christ. This stands in stark contrast to Christians throughout Church history.
Has the reader ever wondered why the early Christians were persecuted by the Roman Empire? After all, the Roman Empire prided itself in being one of the most tolerant and pluralistic of all societies. People were free to worship any god they chose. There was complete freedom of religion throughout the Empire. An old maxim said that there were as many gods in Rome as there were people. Why, then, were Christians singled out for persecution?

The reason Christians were persecuted while people of other beliefs were not was not because they worshipped Jesus Christ. Obviously, Jewish leaders persecuted the early Christians because of their hatred of Jesus, which was due to the fact that He claimed to be their Messiah and Savior--a claim they vehemently rejected. However, the Roman Empire's persecution of Christians was for an entirely different matter.

Rome persecuted Christians because they believed that Jesus Christ was the ONLY God. Under Roman law, Caesar was a god, equal to any other god. Therefore, to be a good Roman, one had to worship Caesar. If one chose to worship another deity, it was fine. As long as he also bowed to Caesar. This was something the early Christians could not and would not do.

You see, from the very beginning of Church history, Christians believed that Jesus Christ was not a way, He was THE way; not a truth, but THE truth; not a god, but THE God. And for this declaration, for this conviction, and for this belief, early Christians were persecuted, imprisoned, and fed to hungry lions.

Yet today, the Church of Jesus Christ sits silent and still when the President of the United States, himself a professing Christian, publicly denies the central doctrine of Christ and embraces the pagan doctrine of universalism. Again, there is only one explanation: the Church is in a state of apostasy.

Of course, as apostasy spreads throughout the country, the men of sin will increase in strength and number. They will aggressively seek to seduce and deceive the people--something they are already doing. Furthermore, our Lord already instructed us as to what would happen when such a condition occurs. He told us that when "the salt have lost his savour . . . it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men." (Matt. 5:13)

No wonder Jesus asked the question, "Nevertheless, when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:8) Finding faith and truth in the midst of apostasy would seem to be the challenge for every true child of God these days.

My reply

> > However, regardless of one's interpretation of who the "man of sin" is, there is no doubt about Paul's prediction that before this man comes, there will be a great "falling away first." By "a falling away," Paul was clearly referring to a state or condition of "apostasy." Paul is saying that before the "man of sin" (whoever he is) will be able to seduce and deceive humanity, the church will fall into apostasy.

> > By definition, apostasy is the condition of those who once (in some degree) embraced the truth, but have now abandoned or forsaken it. Obviously, this applies only to professing Christians.

I think this "apostasy" is not abandoning the doctrine that was once delivered to the saints. The Greek "he apastasia" should be translated "departing" as in some Bibles (WEB, HNV, Geneva Bible, Miles Coverdale Bible, and the Tyndale New Testament).

II Thessalonians 2:1-5 in the Geneva Bible says, "Nowe we beseech you, brethren, by the comming of our Lord Iesus Christ, and by our assembling vnto him (i.e., at the Pre-Trib Rapture), That ye be not suddenly mooued from your minde, nor troubled neither by spirit, nor by worde, nor by letter, as it were from vs, as though the day of Christ (almost all major MSS have day of the Lord, i.e., the Day of God's Wrath) were at hand. Let no man deceiue you by any meanes: for that day (Day of God's Wrath) shall not come, except there come a DEPARTING FIRST (i.e., the Pre-Trib Rapture), and that that man of sinne be disclosed (when he strengthens the peace covenant as the Tribulation begins), euen the sonne of perdition, Which is an aduersarie, and exalteth him selfe against all that is called God, or that is worshipped: so that he doeth sit as God in the Temple of God, shewing him selfe that he is God (Mid-Trib). Remember ye not, that when I was yet with you, I tolde you these things?"

What did he tell them when he was with them? In I Thess. 1:10 (KJV), Paul told the Thessalonians, "to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come." He did not tell them to wait for the man of sin to be revealed.

In I Thess. 4:13-18, Paul told the Thessalonians how the Rapture would take place. He didn't tell them to watch for the man of sin to be revealed first.

In the 18th verse, he said, "Wherefore COMFORT one another with these words." I Thess. 4:18 and 5:11 bookend an important message Paul gave them. I Thess. 5:11 says, "Wherefore COMFORT yourselves together".

In between, he said, "But of the times and the seasons, brethren (believers), YE have no need that I write unto YOU. For YOURSELVES know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when THEY (unbelievers) shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon THEM, as travail upon a woman with child; and THEY shall not escape. But YE, BRETHREN, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake YOU as a thief. YE are all the children of light, and the children of the day: WE are not of the night, nor of darkness. Therefore let US not sleep, as do OTHERS (unbelievers); but let US watch and be sober. For THEY that sleep sleep in the night; and THEY that be drunken are drunken in the night. But let US, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation. For God hath not appointed US to wrath, but to obtain salvation by OUR Lord Jesus Christ, Who died for US, that, whether WE wake or sleep, WE should live together with him" (i.e., after the Rapture).

We will be safe in Heaven before the Tribulation begins.
v > > Today, many Christians (including this writer) believe that the predicted "man of sin" is none other than a coming Antichrist.

On that we agree. I think the man of sin is the False Prophet, the final Satan-possessed Antichrist.

> > Then, just a few days ago, President Bush, in an interview with Al Arabiya television, said, "I believe in an almighty God, and I believe that all the world, whether they be Muslim, Christian, or any other religion, prays to the same God."

I disagree with the president's statement. Actually, the Almighty God is Jesus Christ. No pagan religion prays to Jesus Christ, or to the Father in the name of Jesus. In Rev. 1:8, he said, "I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is (i.e., at the Rapture), and which was (at the First Advent), and which is to come (at the Second Advent), the Almighty."

Isa. 44:6 says, "Thus saith the LORD (YHWH) the King of Israel, and his redeemer (Jesus Christ) the LORD (YHWH) of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God."

In John 10:30, Jesus said, "I and my Father are one." II Cor 5:19 says, "God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself".

> > Of course, as apostasy spreads throughout the country, the men of sin will increase in strength and number. They will aggressively seek to seduce and deceive the people--something they are already doing.

II Thess. 2:4 is not talking about "men of sin." He is talking about THE man of sin, the False Prophet of Rev. 13:11-18. Agape

Using Windows XP 6? You can download Windows XP 7. It's free, and to my delight, it has Shrink to Fit Printing and Zoom

Internet Explorer 7 downloads
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/downloads/ie/getitnow.mspx

"Honey, I shrunk the webpage". February 7, 2006
By Sandi Hardmeier
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/ie/default.mspx

"One of my dislikes when working with Internet Explorer over the years has been the possibility that it will cut off the right-hand edge of a Web page during printing. I must have wasted reams of paper over the years because I had forgotten to switch my printer's orientation to landscape before hitting the print button.

Internet Explorer 7 has solved my printing issues with the introduction of Shrink to Fit printing. Always selected by default, it does exactly what it says—shrinking the width of a Web page so that it will always fit on to your paper when printed....

There are several ways to manipulate zoom settings in Internet Explorer 7. When using a wheel mouse, hold down the Ctrl key and then spin the mouse wheel up or down to increase or decrease zoom. Those of us who prefer keyboard shortcuts can use the Ctrl + key combination to zoom in, and the Ctrl - key combination to zoom out. The Ctrl Shift P key combination will adjust the zoom setting so that the page fits nicely on the screen. Ctrl 0 will set zoom to 100 percent." What a blessing for my blurry eyes with cataracts.

My reply to a post by Stephanie Kinney re: Elijah's departure on Five Doves site on 10-22-07

Re: post on 10-18-07 at Rapture Ready: http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=18050

> > Elijah Raptured...Clues for the Church?...
> > I was reading II Kings 2 last night and I had never noticed something about the departure (rapture?) of Elijah. Look at the passage from the link to the Bible....notice how the sons of the prophets (the faithful remnant left after Israel had turned to Baal and all sorts of wickedness) told Elisha 2 times that Elijah was being taken that day. Elisha indicated that he knew it too and would not keep his eyes off Elijah.

I think Enoch being caught up is a type of the Pre-Trib Rapture, and Elijah being caught up is a type of the Pre-Wrath Rapture after the Day of God's Wrath has arrived, but before the wrath of God hits Earth. See Rev. 6:17 and 7:14. In the former, the Day of God's Wrath has come. In the latter, we find out that it is the Tribulation saints that are caught up at that time. The 7 angels are given the 7 trumpets in Rev. 8.

II Kings 2:9-11 says, "it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me. And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so. And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." Agape

My reply to Stephanie Kinney on Five Doves site, re: post on 10-18-07 at Rapture Ready

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/oct2007/oct.htm
http://www.rr-bb.com/showthread.php?t=18050

> > Elijah Raptured...Clues for the Church?...
I was reading II Kings 2 last night and I had never noticed something about the departure (rapture?) of Elijah. Look at the passage from the link to the Bible....notice how the sons of the prophets (the faithful remnant left after Israel had turned to Baal and all sorts of wickedness) told Elisha 2 times that Elijah was being taken that day. Elisha indicated that he knew it too and would not keep his eyes off Elijah. You know the rest.

My reply

I think Enoch being caught up is a type of the Pre-Trib Rapture, and Elijah being caught up is a type of the Pre-Wrath Rapture after the Day of God's Wrath has arrived, but before the wrath of God hits Earth. See Rev. 6:17 and 7:14. In the former, the Day of God's Wrath has come. In the latter, we find out that it is the Tribulation saints that are caught up at that time. The 7 angels are not given the 7 trumpets of judgment until Rev. 8.

Enoch's being a Gentile fits with the church, and Elijah's being an Israelite fits with Israel. The 144,000 are Israelites. They go in the second Rapture.

No fire was mentioned for Enoch. He simply was not. Fire was mentioned for Elijah, because the 2nd Rapture is at the beginning of the day of God's Wrath.

II Kings 2:9-11 says, "it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me. And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so. And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."

In case you ever have a computer problem like mine, this is what worked for me

I have a new email address. mjagee@verizon.net. When I changed from Earthlink to Verizon, it knocked our two wireless network computers offline. The things that finally solved the problem were running System Restore back to the day before we switched to Verizon and enabling MS Windows XP Zero Configuration instead of the Linksys' and Netgear's own wireless adapter's programs. Oh yes, I had to reinstall the Netgear Setup. That was lucky, because it had stalled the first time. Not knowing a lot about computers forced me to try a workaround. What was actually wrong, I haven't the foggiest.

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