Pro and Con 1365

Posted 10-27-07

Archaeologists kept out as Israel allows Muslims to pulverize antiquities at Judaism's holiest site

By Aaron Klein, Sept 4, 07
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=57476

Possible carved stone from Jewish Temple-era antiquity exposed by digging at Temple Mount in Jerusalem.

As a result of destructive and wanton bulldozing by the Waqf with Israeli permission a section of the wall of the Holy Temple in the area universally recognized as the location of the Women's Court has been unearthed," the letter states. "This is the first time since the destruction of the Second Temple that actual physical evidence of the Temple has been revealed....

This weekend, Islamic authorities using heavy machinery to dig on the Temple Mount were caught red-handed by WND destroying Temple-era antiquities and the purported OUTER WALL OF THE SECOND JEWISH TEMPLE....

Earlier this month, after bulldozers dug a trench 1,300 feet long and five feet deep, the Muslim diggers came across a wall Israeli archaeologists believe may be remains of an area of the Second Jewish Temple known as the woman's courtyard....

Here, the holiest site in Judaism is being damaged, A TEMPLE WALL WAS FOUND, and Israel is actively blocking experts from inspecting the site while allowing the destruction to continue," Richman said.

Richman charged the Waqf was "trying to erase Jewish vestiges from the Temple Mount."

Remains of Second Temple Found?

http://blog.bibleplaces.com/2007/08/remains-of-second-temple-found.html

Aug 30, 07...On further reflection, it is possible that a 7-meter wall was discovered in a 3-foot trench, if the trench made a cross-section of the wall and exposed faces on either side. But that raises another question: what is a 7-meter (22 foot) wall doing on the Temple Mount? As difficult as relations were between Jews and Gentiles, IT'S HARD TO IMAGINE A WALL OF THAT THICKNESS SEPARATING THE COURTYARDS. Perhaps it's a foundation of a building....

My comments

If you click on the following URL, look at the picture of the Temple Mount with the red line drawn on it. It looks like when the wall was found, they had dug to a point due east of the rock under the Dome of the Rock. That could be very significant.

http://www.echad.info/bait/new_ditchE28-08-07.htm

This URL was given in the article above for us to see the where the trench was being dug at the time. The red line seems to end at a point even with the southern edge of the rock under the Dome of the Rock. By the time they had reached that point in their digging the trench, the wall section had been found. This article also gives us this important information, "Back in 1970, in this very same place, a section of an Herodian wall was exposed and completely destroyed by Waqf workers during a similar dig."

That "universally recognized as the location of the Women's Court" in the first article above about the wall is not true. Not everyone agrees with this. According to Josephus, the rock that is now under the Dome of the Rock was in Fort Antonia, which occupied the northern half of the Temple Mount, not in the Temple enclosure, which occupied the southern half of the Temple Mount.

The wall the Moslems found when they were digging a trench for new electrical lines may be a section of the east-west wall that divided the Temple court from Fort Antonia. That would explain why they call the 22 ft. section of wall they found massive. It also could explain why that wall was still on the Temple Mount. If it had been a wall from the Women's Court, it probably would have been dismantled and thrown off the Temple Mount.

In Wars V. V. 8, Josephus wrote, "Now, as to THE TOWER OF ANTONIA, it was situated at the corner of two cloisters of the court of the temple; of that on the west and that on the north; IT [Fort Antonia] WAS ERECTED UPON A ROCK OF FIFTY CUBITS IN HEIGHT, and was on a great precipice; it was the work of king Herod, wherein he demonstrated his natural magnanimity. In the first place, THE ROCK ITSELF WAS COVERED OVER WITH SMOOTH PIECES OF STONE, from its foundation, both for ornament, and that any one who would either try to get up, or to go down it, might not be able to hold his feet upon it [so Jesus probably did not stand on this rock to be judged, as some have said]. Next to this, and before you come to the edifice of the tower itself, there was a WALL THREE CUBITS HIGH; but within that wall all the space of the tower of Antonia itself was built upon, to the height of forty cubits. The inward parts had the largeness and form of a palace, it being parted into all kinds of rooms...and as the entire structure resembled that of a tower, it contained also four other distinct towers at its four corners; whereof the others were but fifty cubits high; whereas that which lay upon the south east corner [ of Fort Antonia] was seventy cubits high, that from thence the whole temple might be viewed; but on the corner [the south-west corner of Fort Antonia] WHERE IT JOINED TO THE TWO CLOISTERS OF THE TEMPLE, it had passages down to them both [Paul stood on these stairs and made a speech], through which the guard (for there always lay in this tower a Roman legion) went several ways among the cloisters"...

Incoming e-mail, Re: Pro and Con 1363

Please tell me where the scripture reference that tells us that The Shekinak Glory Left on the 2nd month, 27th Day. I know that Noah came out of the Ark on the 2nd month, 27th Day,and Ascension Day was on the 2nd month, 27th day. But I have never found the Shekinah Glory date.

I used to think that 2nd month, 27th day would be the rapture. But now I believe that the 2nd month, 17th day is more like the type that took place at the Resurrection. In this pro and con 1363, it was supposed that the resurrected saints that came out of the graves at the quake and resurrection of Christ, went up on Ascension Day. I do not think that this is the case, now. Reasons: Mary saw Jesus first, and He told her not to touch him, until he had ascended to the Father (to receive his glorified body), but to go to the disciples and Peter (who had gone back to fishing, after he denied Christ 3 times), and to tell them to meet him in the upper room, later that day. I believe that after Jesus appeared to Mary, and after the saints appeared to many in the Holy City, that Jesus took the resurrected saints with him when he went to heaven to get his glorified body, and that they stayed in heaven. They were only mentioned one time in the scriptures. Jesus was seen at least eight times after resurrection. I think that had they stayed 40 days as Jesus did, we would have read about them in the scriptures. That is a pretty phenomenal event, the risen dead appearing to many. Jesus resurrected on the 2nd month, 17th day, went to the Father, and took the saints with him. They were raptured on the 17th, as I believe we will be. This October 28th, 2007, will be the 2nd month, 17th day, as the days of Noah, (before calendar change at the Passover). Noah went into the ark on the 2nd month, 27th day, in the fall.

The pattern for all the 27th's is that the Jews are renewed and ready to repent and seek God's face. 10 days after the 27th, (after the Ascension) the Holy Spirit fell at Pentecost, so the church could spread the gospel. The Jewish Nation will be responsible for the gospel, after the church is raptured. I think that the Holy Spirit will fall on the 27th, as it did after the Ascension.

My reply

That was in the incoming mail. It said,
> > "Consider: that the month, day, and time that Ezekiel saw the Shekinah Glory depart from Jerusalem (i.e. The Mount of Olives), was the same month, day, and hour Yeshua (Matthew 27:51ff) departed from the Mount of Olives. Many other resurrected dead also departed earth at that very same moment. It was 40 days after His resurrection, or as Genesis has it, the 27th day of the second month. Before the destruction of the second Temple, the 40th day after firstfruits (Abib 16) i.e. the 27th day of the second month was observed as a Holy day. The Shekinah Glory and Yeshua departed from the Mount of Olives on the 27th day of the second month in the year that began a new 18-year Saros cycle."

I don't know where he got that, or this. He said, "It was 40 days after His resurrection, or as Genesis has it, the 27th day of the second month." The only time I know of that date being mentioned in Genesis was at the time of the Flood. In Gen. 8:14, Noah came out of the Ark on Cheshvan 27. However, we know that is the second month of the Civil Year, and different from Iyar 27, the second month of the Sacred Year, when some think Jesus ascended.

The way I count Ascension Day, with day 1 being Nisan/Abib 17, the 40th day was Iyar 26.

I agree with you that Jesus took the OT saints to Heaven on Resurrection Day. I think that was Sunday, Nisan 16, in 30 AD. The Crucufixion was on the preparation of the Passover, Thursday, Nisan 13. John 19:14 says, "it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!" He was crucified soon after that.

The Passover was Friday, Nisan 14. The Feast of Unleavened Bread was Saturday, Nisan 15. Firstfruits (Resurrection Day) was the first day of the week, Sunday, Nisan 16. The next day would be day #1 of the countdown of the Omer, leading us to Pentecost.

You said,
> > I think that the Holy Spirit will fall on the 27th, as it did after the Ascension.

Do you mean on Pentecost? Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Pro and Con 1363

No, I used to think that we would have a spring rapture, but I really am thinking, fall now. Perry Stone of Manna Fest, also thinks that scripture shows us that the Rapture and Second Coming, both, will be in the fall.

I typed that date incorrectly, when I wrote that Noah went into the Ark on the 2nd month 27th day. Noah went into the ark on the 17th day of the 2nd Month, and God shut the door. He came out of the ark, 1 year, 10 days later, on the 2nd month, 27th day. I think that day, the 27th, when Noah came out of the ark, built an altar, and sacrificed a thanksgiving offering to God, was the day that the righteous, flood survivors became responsible to replenish the earth physically. I think they also were to spread the story of God's mercy, by tellling how they escaped the flood, and tell of the rainbow representing God's covenant with man.

Resurrection was 3 days after Passover, which was on the 14th. so that would be Resurrection on the 17th.

Then the same day, at evening (just before 6 PM), being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear for the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto therm, Peace be unto you. John 20:19 (It was still the first day of their week, Sunday. After 6 PM, would be the 18th. The doors were shut,to all except the disciple believers, just as in the Ark.)

Then 40 days after Resurrection was the Ascension. There are 30 days in Nissan, so that makes Ascension Day, Iyar 27th. Then the apostles and disciples became responsible to tell the gospel story, like Noah was the witness. Then, the Holy Spirit was given to the apostles and disciples, 10 days later, on Pentecost. There are only 29 days in Iyar. So, 27th, 28th, and 29th of Iyar, plus 7 days in Sivan, is Pentecost. Pentecost was 50 days, after the Resurrection. The Holy Spirit was given to the disciples to comfort, to impart wisdom from the word, to give understanding of the truth, to rightly divide the word, to empower them to spread the gospel. And it was given to the church, because the Jewish leadership rejected the Savior.

I used to believe that we would leave on Ascension Day, as Jesus and the Resurrection Saints did. I do believe that we will be raptured on the 17th, as they were. But I believe "as the days of Noah" indicates in the fall. Then, I think that 10 days after the rapture,on the 27th, that Israel will sacrifice an offering on the temple mount, like Noah did, on the 27th, when he came out of the ark. And then, the Holy Spirit will fall on the Israel, on Pentecost to empower those that believe because of the rapture. When the rapture happens and the Church is gone, the responsibility for the Gospel falls back to the Jews.

I also think that this is the spiritual application of the latter rain and former rain. The first Resurrection Rapture in the spring on the 17th day, 1st month, Nissan, and the second Resurrection Rapture on the 17th day, 2nd month, Cheshvan, in the fall. Then, the third Resurrection Rapture will take place at end of the Tribulation, probably on the 17th day of the 1st month,Tishrei . I am not positive on this, but scripture patterns are very clear, 3 measures.

Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, til the whole(body of Christ, the Church) was leavened. Matthew 13:33 And what does leaven do? Helps bread rise. Spreads the salvation message to the whole body, so others can rise with Christ. He is the Bread of Life.

We typically talk about the Resurrection, the Rapture, and the Second Coming. The 3 measures. But all three are Resurrection Raptures. Saints come out of the graves, first, then those that are alive and remain are caught up with them, in the air, to meet Christ. So, there are three measures of believers, going to heaven, that makes the whole body of Christ.

It seems that 17ths represent escapes, doors shutting or opening, victory, and rest. Door of ark shut on 17th, the righteous were protected from the flood(type of Tribulation). After 5 months of rain, on the 17th day of the 7th month(which is the 1st month on the Sacred Calendar), the ark was lifted high above the earth. The dove returned to Noah, the second time, with the olive branch, rested in his hand, on the 17th day of the 11th month. God opened the red sea opened for the Israleites, they escaped the soldiers, and then God closed the sea on the Egyptians, on the 17th. The stone was rolled away and Jesus escaped from the tomb on the 17th, and the graves of the saints were opened.

The 27ths seem to represent "preaching the gospel."

God opened door of ark on 2nd month, 27th day, and Noah sacrificed an offering of thanksgiving. He was responsible to tell the future populations, about God's mercy and salvation. Jehoachim, king of Judah, was

taken out of captivity, and ascended to the throne with the king, on the 27th day of the 5th month. The king

took care of him for the rest of his life. Jesus ascended to heaven on the 27th day of the 2nd month, after teaching the disciples for 40 days, after the Resurrection, leaving the disciples to tell the gospel story.

Open ye the gates, that the righteous nation which keepeth the truth may enter in. Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee. Isaiah 26:2-3

Right now, the door is open. " I set before you an open door."

I am wondering about next Sunday, October the 28th, 2007. That is the 17th day of the 2nd month, on the Civil Calendar, as the days of Noah. Could the door shut, the graves open, and Jesus catch us up with the dead in Christ, in less than a week?

Israel knew that Jesus was the Son of God, when the graves opened, at the Resurrection. Our world will know, when the graves open at the Rapture. The post Tribulation world, will know, when the graves open at the Second Coming of Christ.

Maybe grave openings and the risen dead, witnessing, is what many shall see, fear and shall believe that Jesus is Lord! Just as it happened at the Resurrection.

And it was about the sixth hour(noon), and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour(3 pm). Luke 23:44

Jesus, when he had cried again with a loud voice, yielded up the ghost. And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent; And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. Now when the centurion, and they that were with him, watching Jesus, saw the earthquake, and those things that were done, they feared greatly, saying, Truly this was the Son of God. Matthew 27:52-54

God told us we would know.
So I prophesied as I was commanded: and as I prophesied, there was a noise, and behold a shaking, and the bones came together, bone to his bone. And when I beheld, lo, the sinews and the flesh came up upon them, and the skin covered them above: but there was no breath in them. Then said he unto me, Prophesy unto the wind, prophesy, son of man, and say to the wind, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Come from the four winds, O breath, and breathe upon these slain, that they may live. So I prophesied as he commanded me, and the breath came into them, and they lived, and stood up upon their feet, an exceeding great army. Then he said unto me, Son of man, these bones are the whole house of Israel: behold, they say, Our bones are dried, and our hope is lost: we are cut off for our parts. Therefore prophesy and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel. And ye shall know that I am the LORD(2), when I have opened your graves, O my people, and brought you up out of your graves, And shall put my spirit in you, and ye shall live, and I shall place you in your own land: then shall ye know that I the LORD(3) have spoken it, and performed it, saith the LORD. Ezekiel 37:1-14 (In Israel and in Heaven)

Fear and dread shall fall upon them; by the greatness of thine arm(Jesus) they shall be as still as a stone; till thy people pass over, O LORD, till the people pass over, which thou hast purchased. Thou shalt bring them in, and plant them in the mountain of thine inheritance, in the place, O LORD, which thou hast made for thee to dwell in, in the Sanctuary, O LORD, which thy hands have established. Exodus 15:16-17

The Passover and Red Sea crossing is a type for the Rapture. The first born and families of the chosen people were spared, and they passed over the Red Sea on dry ground, as the Red Sea parted. The Egyptians army that tried to follow, were drowned. The firstfruits, believing body of Christ, the church, will Passover with Jesus at the Rapture.

For the LORD your God dried up the waters of Jordan from before you, until ye were passed over, as the LORD your God did to the Red sea, which he dried up from before us, until we were gone over: That all the people of the earth might know the hand of the LORD, that it is mighty: that ye might fear the LORD your God for ever. Joshua 4:22-24

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming(Rapture), and now is(Resurrection), when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live. For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself; And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man. Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. John 5:20-29

The righteous shall see it, and rejoice: and all iniquity shall stop her mouth. Whoso is wise, and will observe these things, even they shall understand the loving kindness of the Lord. Psalms 107:42-43 (Resurrection, Rapture, and 2nd Coming) ( 1)

The wicked shall see it, and be grieved; he shall gnash with the teeth, and melt away: the desire of the wicked shall perish. Psalms 112:10 (Resurrection, Rapture, and 2nd Coming ) (2)

And the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it. Isaiah 40: 5 (On the third of His days,2nd Coming) (3)

The best of them is as a brier: the most upright is sharper than a thorn hedge: the day of thy watchmen(Rapture) and thy visitation cometh(when the Holy Spirit falls on Israel, perhaps10 days after the Rapture); now shall be their perplexity (the Tribulation begins). Micah 7:4

I am still searching for the scriptures that say the Shekinah Glory left the temple on the 27th. thank you for your diligent work in communicating the scriptures and helping us search.

My reply

> > I used to think that we would have a spring rapture, but I really am thinking, fall now. Perry Stone of Manna Fest, also thinks that scripture shows us that the Rapture and Second Coming, both, will be in the fall.

As you know, I think Pentecost is likely to be the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture. Jewish tradition says that Pentecost is the time of the FIRST TRUMP, Trumpets is the time of the LAST TRUMP, and the Day of Atonement is the time of the GREAT TRUMP.

Since the "LAST TRUMP" is the time of the 2nd Rapture (I Cor. 15:51-54), the Pre-Wrath Rapture, the FIRST TRUMP (I Thess. 4:16,17) is likely to sound on Pentecost.

To me, there can be no doubt that the LAST TRUMP, the Pre-Wrath Rapture, is on the Feast of Trumpets. Rev. 6 ends with "the GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH is come; and who shall be able to stand?" Rev. 7:14,15 says, "These are they which CAME OUT OF GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them." The seven trumpets are given to the seven angels in Rev. 8. They all sound on the same day, the Feast of Trumpets.

That day is the Day of God's Wrath and the day of the trumpet and alarm. Joel 1:15 says, "Alas for the day! for THE DAY OF THE LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come." Joel 2:1,2 says, "Blow ye the TRUMPET in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for THE DAY OF THE LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations."

Since the LAST TRUMP is on the Feast of Trumpets, doesn't it make sense that the FIRST TRUMP would be on Pentecost? The first trumpet of the Bible sounded at Mt. Sinai on Pentecost.

> > Resurrection was 3 days after Passover, which was on the 14th. so that would be Resurrection on the 17th.

Mt .12:40 says, "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. That was Thursday, Nisan 13, (day), Friday, Nisan 14, (night then day), Saturday, Nisan 15, (night then day) and Sunday, Nisan 16 (night).

Jesus was crucified on the preparation of the Passover, Nisan 13. John 19:14 says, "And it was THE PREPARATION OF THE PASSOVER, and about the sixth hour (9 AM, Roman time): and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!"

> > Then 40 days after Resurrection was the Ascension. There are 30 days in Nissan, so that makes Ascension Day, Iyar 27th.

Forty days after the Resurrection on Nisan 16 was Iyar 26.

> > I believe "as the days of Noah" indicates in the fall.

It could, but the difference between the days of Noah and the days of Lot is that fire and brimstone fell the same day Lot left Sodom. Luke 17:29 says, "But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all." Only rain fell the day the Lord shut Noah into the Ark.

> > I also think that this is the spiritual application of the latter rain and former rain. The first Resurrection Rapture in the spring on the 17th day, 1st month, Nissan, and the second Resurrection Rapture on the 17th day, 2nd month, Cheshvan, in the fall.

According to Unger's Bible Dictionary, the former rain began Tishri 1, and the latter rain began Nisan 1. Hosea 6:3 says, "...the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter (Nisan 1) and former rain (Tishri 1) unto the earth." I think Jesus was born on Tishri 1, the first day of the Civil Year, and will return Nisan 1, the first day of the Regnal and Sacred Year.

> > there are three measures of believers, going to heaven, that makes the whole body of Christ.

How can that be? The second Rapture is the LAST TRUMP. The Judgment Seat of Christ is that day. Every saint will receive his rewards that day. Rev. 11:18 says, "And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth." Agape

   Pro and Con 1366   Or Return   Home


Contact me for more information at: mjagee@verizon.net


Send me e-mail now


8641 Sugar Gum Rd, Riverside, CA 92508, USA; (951) 653-4110


© 1996-2007, Marilyn J. Agee
Updated 10-27-07