Pro and Con 1368

Posted 11-11-07

Temple columns in one corner of Temple Mount

http://www.pbase.com/abbarich/temple_mount

Colonade columns had square bases so the outer row would fit tight between the wall sections

Comet Holmes in Outburst

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap071026.html

Oct 26, 07 - Comet 17P/Holmes stunned comet watchers across planet Earth...On October 24, it INCREASED IN BRIGHTNESS OVER HALF A MILLION TIMES in a matter of hours. The outburst transformed it from an obscure and faint comet quietly orbiting the Sun with A PERIOD OF ABOUT 7 YEARS (6.9 years: http://cometography.com/pcomets/017p.html) to a naked-eye comet rivaling the brighter stars in the constellation Perseus.

Comet Holmes In The Electric Universe

By Michael Goodspeed, 11-7-7: http://rense.com/general79/cmet.htm

...what might have happened to Comet Holmes? It is not a typical comet. The eccentricity of its orbit is minimal. It is always outside the orbit of Mars and inside the orbit of Jupiter. In fact, it is virtually as close to being an asteroid as it is to being a comet. And astronomers are slowly realizing that the distinctions between asteroids and comets are not as clear as they had once believed. Occasionally, asteroids sport cometary tails, like the asteroid Chiron, which was seen to develop a tail while orbiting between Saturn and Uranus around 1988 and 1989. It is now officially classified as both an asteroid and a comet....

I found the measurements of the Dome of the Rock, and some other things of interest, in "Traveling in Jerusalem"

http://chass.colostate-pueblo.edu/history/seminar/khusraw/khusraw2.htm

...in the spring of 1046, Nasir (Nasir-i-Khusrau)...set out from Marv on his pilgrimage to the Holy Cities....

In his measurements of buildings our Pilgrim makes use of two units of length: namely, Gez and Arsh. The latter is the equivalent of the Arabic Dhira`, the cubit; while the Gez is generally reckoned to be longer than the cubit, and is given in the dictionaries as roughly equivalent to the English 'yard.' A careful comparison of the many passages in which our Pilgrim has used these terms has, however, shown me that with him they are synonymous terms, corresponding to a measure of SOMEWHAT UNDER TWO ENGLISH FEET. I have been careful in my translation to keep to the word `cubit' for the Persian Arsh, while Gez is always rendered by our etymologically synonymous word `ell.'... CHARLES STREET, 'MAYFAIR, June, 1888.

[The Pilgrim wrote:] The tanks that are below the Haram Area never need to be repaired, for they are cut in the live rock. Any place where there may have been originally a fissure or a leakage, has been so solidly built up that the tanks never fall out of order. It is said that these cisterns were constructed by Solomon...The roofing of them is like that of a baker's oven...Each opening is covered with a stone, as at a well-mouth, in order that nothing may fall down therein. THE WATER OF THE HOLY CITY IS SWEETER THAN THE WATER OF ANY OTHER PLACE, AND PURER*...
----------------
The platform [of the Dome of the Rock] at the present day measures roughly:-North side, 530 feet; south side, 435 feet; east side, 550 feet; west side, 560 feet.... Each of the sides of the octagonal building measures rather over SIXTY-SIX FEET, giving roughly two feet for the size of the cubit.

My comments, re: the Temple Mount

Since one side of the Dome of the Rock building is 66 ft., and the foundation of the wall of the Temple court is 64 feet south of the bridge on the east side of the Dome's platform, I can easily rough out where the wall of the Temple court ran east and west. It looks like the foundation of the wall recently found on the Temple Mount is in the right location to be the foundation of the wall that separated the Temple court from Fort Antonia.

I was looking through Biblical Archaeology Review, Nov/Dec 2007. On page 55, there is a picture of a synagogue at Umm el-Kanatir that fell down in an earthquake. Stones are laid out in a similar way for the foundation of a wall. It looks like the archaeologists that found the remains of the wall on the Temple Mount knew what they were talking about.

On page 64, there is a picture of a carved stone from the Temple Mount. It is now mounted on a wall in St. Paul's Cathedral in London. "Engraved with a rosette, this stone displays the workmanship and design of decorative art in Jerusalem in the Second Temple Period, according to author Barkay, a leading Israeli archaeologist. He believes the stone probably functioned as part of a door jamb, perhaps in Herod's Jerusalem Temple."

Page 66 has a picture of a carved stone that was recovered in the excavations at the foot of the southern wall of the Temple Mount. It too is engraved with a rosette. snd "most likely came from the Royal Stoa at the southern end of the Temple Mount." ("Is a piece of Horod's Temple in St. Paul's Cathedral?", by Gabriel Barkay, Biblical Archaeology Review, Nov./Dec., 2007)

Incoming e-mail, Re: Life Long Study

It's amazing how close we came to the date of the tribulation using different methods, even though we used a lot of the same scripture. There are some people that don't like Bishop Usshers dating; but, I read some of there accounts and read how Bishop Usshers did it the slow pains-taking-way and I do believe Adam was created on 4004 BC like stated in the margin of the old Scolfield Bible. I used that as a starting point and two separate chapters in Genesis counting how old each person was when their first son was born. I found Abraham to be born in 2058 BC. I, like you used Mathew chapter one for the 42 generations between Abraham and Christ. I divided the 42 into 2058 and came up with 49 year being one generation. I didn't have a remainder in my division.

I went looking in history for anyone that thought 49 year had to do with end time events and I found only one, Sir Isaac Newton. He said in the 70 weeks of Daniel where it said, from the command to rebuild and restore Jerusalem to Messiah the Prince would be 7 weeks and that Prophesy was for the end time. It was hard to find and I only found it from one source; but, there was a command from the Parliment to rebuild and Restore Jerusalem on October 10, 1967. (The source from Sir Isaac Newton is a book from his notes "Observations Upon Daniel and the Appolypse of St. John", chapter 10. That puts the tribulation (restoreing the covenant with many for one week) on October 10, 2009. I also, like you, used the 2300 days of Daniel chapter 8. Alexander the Great captured Jerusalem in 333 BC. He bought in Helenism (12 gods) and the jewish priest helped him bring it in. 2300 - 333 = 1967. I did a study of time and they had the time of Christ birth all over the place; but, I came up believeing that God has kept time stright just like He did the Holy Bible. Daniel 8 also has some reading like Luke 21, Jerusalem will be trodden down of the Gentiles until the time of the Gentiles be fulfilled and believe the 6 day war was a fullfillement of that. I have more, but basically thats it. Hats off to your husband, I really respect people who have been protectors of our freedom. God Bless

My reply

You are to be commended for all your study. I have studied the Bible as hard as I could go ever since 1960. We do differ on some things, but that is to be expected. Interpreting prophecy is not an easy task. It looks like I missed the Rapture by 10 years to start with. I thought it would be on Pentecost in 1998. I now expect it on Pentecost in 2008.

I'll tell you some ways we differ in our interpretation, but remember, I am not a prophet. I make mistakes, no matter how hard I try not to. Prove all things by Scripture, not by what I say.

> > There are some people that don't like Bishop Usshers dating; but, I read some of there accounts and read how Bishop Usshers did it the slow pains-taking-way and I do believe Adam was created on 4004 BC like stated in the margin of the old Scolfield Bible. I used that as a starting point and two separate chapters in Genesis counting how old each person was when their first son was born.

How could a chronologer not do it the slow painstaking way? The begats get interesting when one tries to find out what year the Flood took place.

There are the 4 or 5 Gordon Knots, hard things to unravel. One is figuring out how old Terah was when Abraham was born. I was lucky enough to find an unpublished syllabus written by Dr. Ehlert, who was at that time head librarian of BIOLA library in La Mirada, CA. In his syllabus, Dr Ehlert explained how to solve the Gordian Knots. Once you know the answer, it is easy to double check it. That saved lots of time.

> > I found Abraham to be born in 2058 BC.

I think Abraham was born in 2035 BC. I'm wondering how you came up with 2058 BC when you started with 4004 BC. Shouldn't there be a 40-year difference in our dates? I started in 4044 BC.

I think Adam was created on Friday, Sept. 18, 4044 BC. That evening at sunset was Saturday, Tishri 1, -283 BJE (before the Jewish era). On Tishri 1, the sign in Rev. 12 was in the sky. Virgo was clothed with the Sun, and the Moon was at her feet, just as it was when Jesus was born on Tishri 1 in 5 BC.

Since the number 40 is the number of testing and probation, and the second Adam (Jesus) was tested 40 days, I believe that the first Adam was cast out of the Garden of Eden after 40 years, in 4004 BC.

The Flood was 1656 AH (year of man), which was 2387 BC. Noah lived 350 years after the Flood.

Gen. 9:28,29 says, "And Noah lived after the flood three hundred and fifty years. And all the days of Noah were nine hundred and fifty years: and he died.

That was 1056 AH plus 950 years, or 2006 AH, which was 2037 BC.

Abraham was born two years later, in 2008 AH, which was 2035 BC.

When testing to see if a chart on Bible Chronology is reliable, I look first to see if they say the Flood was in 1656 AH. Most major chronologers agree on this date.

> > That puts the tribulation (restoreing the covenant with many for one week) on October 10, 2009.

I have Pentecost, Sivan 6, 5769 (Friday, May 29, 2009), as the beginning of the Tribulation.

> > I also, like you, used the 2300 days of Daniel chapter 8. Alexander the Great captured Jerusalem in 333 BC. He bought in Helenism (12 gods) and the jewish priest helped him bring it in. 2300 - 333 = 1967.

I think the 2300 days are literal days, not years. It is literally 2300 evenings and mornings.

Dan. 8:13,14,26 says, "Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice (not yearly sacrifice, it probably stands for the first half of the Tribulation, when Moses and Elijah will teach from the Temple 1260 days, Rev. 11:1-3), and the transgression of desolation (Mid-Trib, II Thess. 2:3,4), to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? (during the shortened Great Tribulation) And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed....And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up the vision; for it shall be for many days."

Therefore, I think the Tribulation will last 2300 days. It will end on a Feast of Trumpets.

Joel 1:15; 2:1,2 says, "Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come...Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations."

> > I did a study of time and they had the time of Christ birth all over the place; but, I came up believeing that God has kept time stright just like He did the Holy Bible.

I believe the Second Adam, Jesus, was born on Tishri 1. Hosea 6:3 says, "the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth." The former rain comes Tishri 1. The latter rain comes Nisan 1. Therefore, the First Advent was on Tishri 1, and the Second Advent will be on Nisan 1.

> > Luke 21, Jerusalem will be trodden down of the Gentiles until the time of the Gentiles be fulfilled and believe the 6 day war was a fullfillement of that.

Jerusalem, even the Temple Mount, is still trodden by Gentiles. That didn't stop in 1967. The False Prophet will sit in the Temple Mid-Trib "shewing himself that he is God" (II Thess. 2:4).

Rev 11:1,2 shows that the Gentiles will tread under foot the outer court of the Temple during the Tribulation. It says, "And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein. But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months." Agape

His reply, Re: Thanks

I have never tried to figure the day of the rapture; Jesus said no one would know the day or the hour. We do agree that the tribulation and the rapture are two separate events at two separate times. Most people run the two together. Bishop Ussher actually published the date of Abrahams birth as 2058; but, I wasn't trying to prove anything, except to myself; so, I don't know where I saw it published. Genesis 5 and Genesis 11 gives the exact number of years between Adam and Abraham with a little math. The only thing that looked off the chart was Noah was 500 years old and had triplets. After I found (in the book of Jasher, refered to by the Holy scriptures) that he was something over 490 when he got married, I had no trouble with believing that the translation is literal. The 2300 days may have more than one meaning; however, if the 70 weeks of Daniel in the next chapter over is years; then, it's not hard to see how the 2300 days are years.

I am just happy that you responded, most religious people just lable me as a nut. We will not totally come together on every point; so, with all my heart I say thank you for responding and may God continue to guide you to the wisdom you (and I) have looked searched the scriptures to find. I was not trying to go against your work, I just want out of here, I am tired of this world and I want to go home. On that point your figures work well for me; because you get me out of here sooner. God Bless You, your family, and your work, may it cause many to turn to Christ for salvation.

My reply

No two people will see everything the same. The Bible is too complex. The Bible has to be God breathed. No man could pack so much information into such a little space. We will never unravel it all. That's why we never tire of searching. We keep learning new things along the way. When we are ready, the Holy Spirit will unveil more for us to ponder over. The more we know about the whole Bible, the better chance we have to understand any verse. The Bible explains itself many times.

> > Jesus said no one would know the day or the hour.

In Mt. 24:36, Jesus said, "But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only." In English, "knoweth" is present tense. No man knew on that day. In Greek, it is even stronger. The word for "knoweth" is eido¯, Strong's G1492, "A primary verb; used only in certain past tenses." It has nothing to do with what we can or can't know today.

> > The only thing that looked off the chart was Noah was 500 years old and had triplets.

I doubt that they were triplets. The geneaological information is usually just given for the line of Christ. Noah was born in 1056 AH. His first son was Shem. He was born in 1558 AH. Noah was 600 when the Flood began in 1656 AH. Shem was 100 two years after the flood began, so he was 98 when it began. Therefore, he was born in 1558 AH when Noah was 502.

I want to be out of here too. But, God willing, as long as I am here, I will keep studying and trying to understand more of what God packed into the Bible for us to dig out.

Do you have eSword? It is free and has several Bible versions you can download to search for words or phrases. Learning comes faster when we have such a wonderful program to help us put two and two together. It also has Strong's Greek and Hebrew Dictionaries, meanings of names, etc. Click on Download at: http://www.e-sword.net
Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Thanks

The center piece of my work is Sir Isaac Newton and "Observations Upon Daniel and the Appolypse of St. John" chapter 10. He said (in the 70 weeks of Daniel from chapter 9) from the command to rebuild and restore Jerusalem to Messiah the Prince would be 7 weeks and that prophesy was for the end time. I looked hard for some fault in Sir Isaac Newtons work and I found none. They though he had made a mistake in a formula for the theory of relativity; but, instead Enstine (sp.) was wrong. There isn't a large bridge built or a tall building built or man going to the moon that does not use the Calicus that Sir Isaac Newton invented. He spent half his time in the Bible (reading the Hebrew) and the other half inventing and working out problems. On October 10, 1967 there was a command to rebuild and restore Jerusalem. With it being Messiah the Prince, that's all the way to his second comming and the rapture is 7 years earlier. That makes the beginning of the tribulation (signing of the 7 year peace treaty) on October 10, 2009. It's also a Jewish Holiday, I can't pronounce or spell it but it's the one following shavat, and the meaning of it is it's a time for the visitors to go home and a time for God to deal with his people. Leviticus says the first Jubilee was on the 10 day of the 7th month. That also is our October 10, I believe. Some think that a new Jubilee begins in 2009. I'm not sure about all that or I would spend all my money before October 10, 2009. I am sure that I am inpressed with your work and sincerely hope you are right and I am wrong; but, if your wrong I hope I'm right. The point is, we came very close to the same date. Observations upon Daniel and the Appolypse of St. John chapter 10 can be pulled up on the Internet. It's been nice to talk to someone that isn't afraid to go deep into Gods word, most think it it off limits, it reminds me some of the religious people when Christ came the first time and they missed it and are still looking for Him to come. God Bless

My reply

Without doubt, Isaac Newton was exceptionally brilliant in mathematics. That is not my field of expertise, and I couldn't begin to even understand what he accomplished in math. However, that doesn't mean he was equally brilliant when he interpreted the Bible. He could, and did, make mistakes, as we all do at times.

For instance, in his "Observations upon the Prophecies of Daniel, and the Apocalypse of St John, Chapter XI, Of the Times of the Birth and Passion of Christ, he said, "I take it for granted that the passion was on friday the 14th day of the month Nisan, the great feast of the Passover on saturday the 15th day of Nisan, and the resurrection on the day following....the Passion, when Annas succeeded Caiaphas, could not be later than the 20th year of Tiberius, A.C. 34. Thus there remain only the years 33 and 34 to be considered; and the year 33 I exclude exclude by this argument. In the Passover two years before the Passion, when Christ went thro' the corn, and his disciples pluckt the ears, and rubbed them with their hands to eat; this ripeness of the corn shews that the Passover then fell late: and so did the Passover A.C. 32, April 14, but the Passover A.C. 31, March 28th, fell very early. It was not therefore two years after the year 31, but two years after 32 that Christ suffered.Thus all the characters of the Passion agree to the year 34; and that is the only year to which they all agree."

When it comes to the Bible, don't let anyone think for you. Compare everything with Scripture. Personally, I disagree with Newton on this, but remember, I am not a prophet. I can make mistakes.

After much study, I think Jesus was crucified on Thursday, Nisan 13, the preparation of the Passover, and he was resurrected on Sunday, Nisan 16 in 30 AD. John 19:14 says, "it was the preparation of the passover". That is very clear. It was not the Passover, but the day before the Passover when they prepared their food. John 18:28 is also clear. It says, "Then led they Jesus from Caiaphas unto the hall of judgment: and it was early; and they themselves went not into the judgment hall, lest they should be defiled; but that they might eat the passover." That was crucifixion day, and the Passover was still future.

Newton assumed "the great feast of the Passover (was) on saturday the 15th day of Nisan." That assumption was wrong. Lev 23:5 plainly says, "In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover." The Passover was Nisan 14. It began as Nisan 13 ended at 6 PM. Jewish days start with 12 hours of night, then 12 hours of day.

The lambs were killed at the Temple between the evenings, i.e., between 3 and 6 PM on Nisan 13. They were put in stone ovens to roast as Jesus was put into the stone tomb. The roasted lamb had to be eaten between 6 PM and midnight, which was 6 hours after Passover began at 6 PM, when Nisan 13 became Nisan 14.

Mt 12:40 says, "For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth." There was Thursday (day), Friday (night then day), Saturday (night then day), and Sunday (night).

Not only was Newton wrong about the day of the week of the crucifixion, he was wrong about the year. It was 30 AD, not 34 AD. Tiberius became Co-Rex in 12 AD. From that time, he was sole ruler over Palestine, Augustus being busy in other parts of his realm. This coin, minted in 13 AD, is proof. Augustus is on one side. Tiberius is on the other.

The 15th year of Tiberius was 26 AD, the year Jesus was baptized near his 30th birthday, Tishri 1, 3786. He was crucified Nisan 13, 3790, April 6, 30 AD.

> > Leviticus says the first Jubilee was on the 10 day of the 7th month.

Lev 25:9 says, "Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound on the tenth day of the seventh month, in the day of atonement shall ye make the trumpet sound throughout all your land."

That is when the Jubilee Year was announced. It began the following Nisan 1. The only Jubilee I feel sure of was in 28 AD, but let me give a little background first.

Jesus was born on Tishri 1 in 5 BC. He was about 30 when he was baptized in the 15th year of Tiberius, 26 AD. Luke 3:21-23 says, "Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased. And Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age".

He was 31 on Tishri 1, the Feast of Trumpets, in 27 AD. Ten days later, on the Day of Atonement, he went to the synagogue in Nazareth and read Isa. 61:1,2.

Luke 4:16-21 says that Jesus "came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are bruised, To preach (ke¯russo, proclaim, herald as a public crier) the acceptable year of the Lord (i.e., announce the Jubilee Year that would start the next Nisan 1). And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears."

I read that according to Jewish tradition, the Jews believe the Messiah will come on the last Jubilee. The words "last jubile" don't appear in the King James Bible. However, Jesus was here on that Jubilee in 28 AD. Then was that the last Jubilee? I wonder.

I did a search on Google. Below is what I found. The emphasis is mine.

"The Messiah of Judaism"
http://www.truthnet.org/TheMessiah/4_Messiah_of_Judaism/

..."Maimonides further explains in his work on the Halakhic code, the Yad haHazaqa (“The Strong Hand”), also known as the Mishne Torah[4] (Second Torah) the view of redemption and the role Messiah will play. Maimonides summarizes the Jewish expectation of the Messiah. But the expectation of Messiah, is not limited to Maimonides comments, quotes from the Talmud, Targum, Midrash, Zohar and other writings give us a vivid picture of the expectation in the Jewish world of the times of Messiah...

"Through the Talmud, and other writing we see the expectation of two Messiahs. One called Messiah Son of David, and the other Messiah Son of Joseph actually precedes the Messiah son of David and is killed in the battle of Gog and Magog. Messiah Son of David then asks the Lord to resurrect the slain Messiah Son of Joseph. The Babylonian Talmud refers to the relationship between these two Messiahs...

"Elijah said to Rav Y’huda the brother of Rav Sala the Pious: “The world will exist for no less than eighty-five jubilees [that is, 4250 years], and IN THE LAST JUBILEE THE SON OF DAVID WILL COME.” He asked him: “In its beginning or at its end?” He answered: “I do not know.” [Rav Y’huda then asked:] “Will it [the last jubilee] be complete or not?” He said to him: “I do not know.” Rav Ashi said; “This is what Elijah told him; ‘Until the last jubilee expect him not; from then on expect him.’” Babylonian Talmud Sanhedrin 97b[14]

"At that time Michael the great [celestial] prince will rise and blow the shofar three times…and Messiah ben David and Elijah will be revealed. And the two of them will go to Israel who will be [at that time] in the desert of the peoples, and Elijah will say to them; “This is the Messiah.” And he will return their heart [which will be faint] and will strengthen their hand… (T’fillat R. Shim’on ben Yohai, BhM 2:125"...

Whoever added the 4250 years used a 50 year cycle. I think a Jubilee cycle is 49 years so that the Sabbatic Years and the Jubilee cycle stay aligned. The 50th year is also the 1st year of the new cycle. This way, 85 jubilee cycles would be 4165 years. The following year would be the Jubilee Year.

Thanks for your kind words. It is nice to discuss these things with someone that really wants to know what the Bible indicates. Agape

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