Pro and Con 1377

Posted 12-21-07

Incoming e-mail, Re: Your site, Thank you

I feel impressed to send you a thank you, from the Body of Christ. Your willingness to examine carefully the thoughts and opinions of others is truly a witness itself. As the day approaches, I truly see a shifting. When I discuss the promises of Jesus' return, with those who profess Jesus, either they are excited and praying for the day of His appearing, indifferent, or scared. I am blessed to have Mom, your age, who loves The Lord, and has had the same wisdom through the years, to listen and weigh observations from others. It has, therefore, been a joy to be able to go to her, with new insights, knowing she would always be excited to talk about The Lord. As well, she has committed herself to the study of the word, as have you. I didn't mean for this to be so long... I just felt impressed to communicate our appreciation of your diligence in following the voice of Jesus. I look forward to meeting you one day.

My reply

Thank you. It is nice to be appreciated. Happy holidays to all.

Incoming e-mail, Re: Why 2008?

I don't know whether anyone has sent you a copy of this study or not. I just finished reading your article on "Modern Parallels." It was wonderful! I wanted you to have this study, so I am attaching it. I hope it is a blessing and encouragement to you, even as your study was to me. God bless you! See you soon in glory. We are soon going "home."

My reply, Re: The wise shall understand, Dan. 12:10

Thanks for your kind words and for sending me the article....

When I wrote Modern Parallels, I thought the shortened Tribulation would end this year, on Tishri 1, 5768 (Sept. 13, 2007). Now, I see things clearer than I did then. It looks like this year, 5768, is the beginning of "THE TIME OF THE END." If so, the wise can understand. I am now hoping that the Pre-Trib Rapture will be Saturday, Nisan 21, 5768, April 26, 2008, the last day of the 7 days of Unleavened Bread. I'm also expecting Israel to build the Temple between the Rapture and the beginning of the Tribulation on Pentecost in 2009. Rev. 11:1,2 sounds like the Temple is there at the beginning of the Tribulation, when God's two witnesses begin their ministry. I expect the Rapture of the Tribulation saints seen in Heaven in Rev. 7:14 will be Tishri 1, 5776 (Mon. Sept. 14, 2015). That is also the day of God's Wrath, so that Rapture is the Pre-Wrath Rapture. They barely get out before God's wrath falls on Earth.

I noticed that Daniel kept mentioning "THE TIME OF THE END." Dan. 8:17 says, "Understand, O son of man: for at THE TIME OF THE END shall be the vision." Verse 19 says, "Behold, I will make thee know what shall be in THE LAST END OF THE INDIGNATION: for at the time appointed THE END shall be." If there is a "last end," there is a first end, just as the "last trump" of I Cor. 15:51,52 requires the FIRST TRUMP of I Thess. 4:16,17. The first end in Daniel 8 seems to be the first half of the Tribulation. The last end seems to be the last half of the Tribulation, the Great Tribulation.

Dan. 8:23-26 says, "And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance (the Satan-possessed False Prophet of Rev. 13:11-18), and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power (by Satan's): and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes (Jesus); but he shall be broken without hand. And the vision of the evening and the morning which was told is true: wherefore shut thou up THE VISION; for it shall be for many days."

THE VISION. Dan. 8:13,14 says, "How long shall be THE VISION concerning the daily sacrifice (i.e., the first half of the Tribulation when they can sacrifice at the Temple), and the transgression of desolation (Mid-Trib), to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? (during the Great Tribulation). And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed." It looks like the shortened Tribulation will last 2300 days, and there are exactly 2300 days between Pentecost, 2009 and the Feast of Trumpets in 2015, counted by Jewish inclusive reckoning.

Dan. 11:35 says, "And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to THE TIME OF THE END: because IT IS YET FOR A TIME APPOINTED."

Dan. 11:40 says, "And at THE TIME OF THE END shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over."

Dan. 11:44,45 says, "But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many. And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas (the Mediterranean and Dead sea) in the glorious holy mountain (probably the Temple Mount in Jerusalem); yet HE SHALL COME TO HIS END, and none shall help him." There is a good chance that the False Prophet will be deposed on the 2300th day of the Tribulation, Monday, Tishri 1, 5776 (Sept. 14, 2015).

Dan. 12:4,9 says, "O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even TO THE TIME OF THE END: many shall run to and fro (think of airplanes), and knowledge shall be increased (think of computers)....And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and SEALED TILL THE TIME OF THE END." As you know, the 40-year generation since the Sign of the End of the Age, the Six-Day War, has ended. Now that we are in the time of the end, we should be able to figure out the things that pertain to THE TIME OF THE END.

Besides the 40-year generation, there is a 48.33 year generation. Mt. 1:17 says, "So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations. 2030 years divided by 42 = 48.33 years.

As you believe, the Six-Day War of 1967 (5728) had to be the Sign of the End of the Age. Israel was 19. Any later than that, she couldn't be called young. The Fig Tree Parable in Mt. 24:32-34 says, "Now learn a parable of the fig tree (Israel, Joel 1:6,7); When his branch (klados, scion broken off for grafting) is YET TENDER (young), and putteth forth leaves (Gaza Strip, Sinai, West Bank, and Golen Heights), ye know that summer is nigh (the war started June 5; summer began June 21): So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it (the Kingdom of God, Luke 21:31) is NEAR, EVEN AT THE DOORS (symbol of the two Raptures, the Pre-Trib-FIRST-TRUMP Rapture (I Thess. 4:13-18) and the Pre-Wrath-LAST TRUMP Rapture (I Cor. 15:51,52). Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled."

The Pre-Trib Rapture, the FIRST "TRUMP OF GOD," is when the first of the two doors in Heaven opens in Rev. 4:1. Those saints sing the NEW SONG and are seen in Heaven in Rev. 5:9. They are the Bride of Christ group.

Luke 21:36 says, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man."

The Pre-Wrath Rapture, the "LAST TRUMP," is in Rev. 7. Those saints are caught up to Heaven when the second door to Heaven opens. They are seen in Heaven in Rev. 7:9,14 and 14:4,5. This time, only the 144,000 Israelites are able to sing as it were the NEW SONG. They are virgins without fault before the throne of God. Therefore, they seem to be added to the Bride of Christ group caught up in the first Rapture, probably because Israel is partially blinded until after the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

Rev. 14:3-5 says, "And they sung as it were a NEW SONG before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were REDEEMED FROM THE EARTH. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are VIRGINS. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the FIRSTFRUITS unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are WITHOUT FAULT BEFORE THE THRONE OF GOD."

Zeph. 2:1-5 says, "Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired (Israel); Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD'S anger come upon you. Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: IT MAY BE YE SHALL BE HID (i.e., by being raptured) IN THE DAY OF THE LORD'S ANGER. For Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the noon day, and Ekron shall be rooted up. Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast."

When the asteroid of Rev. 8:8 hits the Mediterranean Sea on the Day of God's Wrath, the sea coast will take the brunt of the impact blast and tsunami that follows. Eze. 11:10 says, "I will judge you in the BORDER of Israel; and ye shall know that I am the LORD." Eze. 11:11 says, "This city shall not be your caldron, neither shall ye be the flesh in the midst thereof; but I will judge you in the BORDER of Israel".

Isaih 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here? (Babylon) and whom hast thou here (the False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he (Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre on high (in the asteroid Wormwood (Rev. 8:10,11), and that graveth an habitation for himself in a rock? Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. He will surely violently turn and TOSS THEE LIKE A BALL into a large country (at Babylon, Iraq, not tiny Israel): there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down."

The order of events on Earth on the Day of the Lord, which is also the Day of God's Wrath, is the Pre-Wrath Rapture, then the Wrath of God is poured out on the unbelievers left on Earth. Rev. 6:17 says, "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand? In Rev. 7:14, we see the Tribulation saints have been caught up in the Pre-Wrath Rapture. Then, in Rev. 8, the 7 angels are given the 7 judgment trumpets

Mark 13:27 says, "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH to the uttermost part of HEAVEN." Those gathered to the "general assembly" in Heaven (Heb. 12:23) that day are two groups, one from Heaven, the other from Earth. They are the Bride of Christ that was caught up to Heaven before the Tribulation and the Tribulation saints that are gathered from Earth on the Day of God's Wrath.

Rev. 11:15-19 shows us some of what happens in Heaven that day. It is a day like no other. Besides the Coronation of Christ, there is Last-Trump Rapture, the Marriage of the Lamb and the Judgment Seat of Christ.

Rev. 11:15-19 says, "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art (on this Day of the LORD), and wast (at the First Advent), and art to come (at the Second Advent, 7 months later, Eze. 39:12,13); because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and THY WRATH IS COME, and the time of the dead, that they should be JUDGED (at the Judgment Seat of Christ), and that thou shouldest give REWARD unto thy servants the prophets, AND TO THE SAINTS, and them that fear thy name, SMALL AND GREAT; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake (Eze. 38:20; Rev. 16:18,19), and great hail."

We have two Raptures and two lengths for a generation. God uses types. What if the 40-year generation is to help us understand when the Pre-Trib Rapture will be? and the 48.33-year generation marks the very day of the the Pre-Wrath Rapture? The correlations and dates seem possible. I think this deserves some serious thought.

The Israelites did not go up to Jericho immediately after the 40 years ended. We haven't gone up to New Jerusalem yet, and the 40 years since the Six-Day War have ended.

When given Jericho, the trumpet sounded. When the first Rapture takes place, we will hear the first "trump of God."

\Joshua 6:2-5 says, "And the LORD said unto Joshua (i.e., Jesus from the Hebrew; also Joshua was the son of Nun, which means the eternal, a good type of Jesus), See, I have given into thine hand Jericho (meaning his month, i.e., Nisan), and the king thereof, and the mighty men of valour. And ye shall compass the city, all ye men of war, and go round about the city once. Thus shalt thou do six days. And seven (number of completion) priests shall bear before the ark seven trumpets of rams' horns: and the seventh day ye shall COMPASS THE CITY SEVEN TIMES (like Saturn has 7 rings), and the priests shall blow with the trumpets. And it shall come to pass, that when they make a long blast with the ram's horn, and WHEN YE HEAR THE SOUND OF THE TRUMPET, ALL THE PEOPLE SHALL SHOUT WITH A GREAT SHOUT; AND THE WALL OF THE CITY SHALL FALL DOWN FLAT, AND THE PEOPLE SHALL ASCEND UP EVERY MAN STRAIGHT BEFORE HIM." Does that sound like it pictures the FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE?

When Ezekiel saw visions of God, we read in Eze 1:26-28, "And above the firmament (expanse of space) that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne (God's), as (symbolic language) the appearance of a sapphire stone (sapphire means Heaven as a birthstone and dear to the planet Saturn, from the Sanskrit Sani, Saturn, and priya, dear): and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man (Jesus, both man and God) above upon it. And I saw as the colour of amber (Saturn is amber), as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins (i.e., from the equator) even upward, and from the appearance of his loins (from the equator) even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about (i.e., Saturn's 7 rings). As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about (both the rainbow and the rings are seen because of sunlight on ice crystals). This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD".

No wonder Exodus 24:10 says, "And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a SAPPHIRE STONE, and as it were the body of heaven (i.e., heavenly body) in his clearness." Mt. Sinai represented Heaven and is probably derived from Sani.

Joshua 5:10 says, "And the children of Israel encamped in Gilgal (meaning wheel, rolling), and KEPT THE PASSOVER ON THE FOURTEENTH DAY OF THE MONTH AT EVEN in the plains of Jericho. And they did eat of the old corn of the land ON THE MORROW AFTER THE PASSOVER, unleavened cakes, and parched corn in the selfsame day."

That's Nisan 15, the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread.

They marched around Jericho 7 days. Then Joshua 6:5 says, "And it shall come to pass, that when they make a long blast with the ram's horn, and WHEN YE HEAR THE SOUND OF THE TRUMPET, all the people shall SHOUT with a great shout; and the wall of the city shall fall down flat, and THE PEOPLE SHALL ASCEND UP every man straight before him." Does that sound like it is picturing the Rapture?

Verse 20 says, "So the people shouted when the priests blew with the trumpets: and it came to pass, when the people heard the sound of the trumpet, and the people shouted with a great shout, that the wall fell down flat, so that THE PEOPLE WENT UP INTO THE CITY, EVERY MAN STRAIGHT BEFORE HIM, AND THEY TOOK THE CITY."

IS ISRAEL BEING GIVEN JERICHO A TYPE OF OUR BEING GIVEN NEW JERUSALEM?

The Israelites blew the trumpet every day of the 7-day Feast of Unleavened Bread as they circled the city. The day they were given Jericho was Nisan 21, the last day of the 7 days of Unleavened Bread. Is that the date of the FIRST-TRUMP RAPTURE? In this year of 5768, Nisan 21 will be Saturday, April 26, 2008. The Sabbath would be a good day for the Rapture.

The Pre-Wrath Rapture could be at the end of the 48.33-year generation, on Monday, Tishri 1, 5776 (Sept. 14, 2015). I think that will be the day of God's Wrath. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: The Bible and the Geologic Column

http://www.setterfield.org/Bibleandgeology.html
home: http://www.setterfield.org/simplifiedindex.html

I recently stumbled across this and am struggling to understand it. It is fascinating, and I thought you might be interested. Parts of it are in agreement with Velikovsky ... he had part of the picture described but not all. Note in particular the phrase, "...men forgot ..." throughout which jibes with Velikovsky's theory of a collective amnesia of mankind.

A blessed Christmas to you and Ed. Agape

My reply

Thanks for all the things you send me.

In "The Bible and the Geologic Column," Helen Setterfield said, > > Although Noah’s Flood gets a lot of Bible time, it is not the only catastrophe of tremendous proportions mentioned in the Bible. There are two others: the collapse of the Tower of Babel and, several generations later, the division of the earth at the time of Peleg. Neither of these were quiet events. Neither of these were local events. > > Thus, the Bible divides early history into four major eras, separated by three catastrophes. Interestingly, so does the geologic column.

I think the continents did divide in Peleg's day, but the Bible doesn't mention a catastrophe at the Tower of Babel in the past. The only thing the Bible says when they stopped building the city where the Tower of Babel was located is in Gen 11:1-9.

It says, "And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech. And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there. And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter. And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth. And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded. And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, LET US GO DOWN, AND THERE CONFOUND THEIR LANGUAGE, that they may not understand one another's speech. So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and THEY LEFT OFF TO BUILD THE CITY. Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth."

> > In Genesis 2, we read something interesting. We read that before there was man on earth, the entire surface of the supercontinent was watered by springs or steam (choose your translation) seeping up from the surface of the ground.

Steam? Gen. 1:2 merely says, "And the earth was (hayah, became) without form (tohu, waste), and void (bohu, desolation); and DARKNESS was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon THE FACE OF THE WATERS." The whole land surface was submerged, and it was dark. Without sunlight, it would be cold on the surface, regardless of the heat in the core.

The land didn't emerge from the water until verse 9. It says, "And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and LET THE DRY LAND APPEAR: and it was so." I think the Lord formed the Pacific Basin for the "one place" for the waters.

> > Thus we have even some biblical evidence for something a number of ancient legends also mention: that the massive flood waters which inundated the earth were scalding hot.

If the waters had been scalding hot, the pitch sealing the boards of the Ark against leaks would have melted, the Ark would have leaked, and sunk. All aboard would have been drowned if the heat hadn't gotten them first.

> > In Genesis 7:11, we read that ALL the fountains, or springs, of the deep exploded upwards at the same time. This indicates a critical point had been reached under the earth’s surface. For several thousand years the building heat had been driving water out of the minerals and crystal structure of the early earth’s inner parts. These waters would have been collecting in giant subterranean aquifers. They had originally watered the earth, and possibly helped warm it. Then, at the time of Noah, we read that these waters could finally be contained no longer and they burst forth. The Hebrew verb used in Genesis 7:11 indicates a violent action.

> > There is a good chance that the trigger event for this bursting forth was an asteroid bombardment, as indicated in another article – A Brief Earth History. But whatever triggered this explosion, there are several important points to be noted about it, geologically. First, the waters did not explode everywhere uniformly. They exploded out of weakened areas in the crust, probably mostly along the lines of the later boundaries of the continents. Both the Bible and geology indicate there was one supercontinent at first. In Genesis 1:9, we read that God caused the waters to be gathered into ONE place and the dry ground appeared. That means it was in the ‘other’ place – as one massive continent. This continent would not break up until later. Both the Bible and standard geology agree on this point, although the timing is, of course, greatly different in the two different stories.

> > But in this one supercontinent there were massive rock sections, called cratons. The waters did not burst through them, but much more around them. So there would have been fracture lines along the weaker areas of the earth’s crust through which these scalding waters would have burst.

Gen 7:11 says, "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains (mayan, fountain, spring, well) of the great deep (tehom, an abyss, a surging mass of water, usually the main sea) broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened."

Though openings of springs on land probably would have broken so the water gushed out faster, the main thing I get out of Gen. 7:11 is that the fountains of the ocean, like the black smokers, broke up so the stored water would gush forth quickly.

I doubt that an asteroid impacted Earth to cause this at the time of Noah's Flood. Eze 21:14 says, "son of man, prophesy, and smite thine hands together, and let the sword (i.e., the SWORD OF THE LORD, an asteroid impact; Rev. 8:8-11) be doubled THE THIRD TIME." I think this means that a sizeable asteroid hits Earth three times, before Adam was created, when the Great Rift Valley split and fire and brimstone destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah, and on the Day of God's Wrath. Smaller stones have hit the Earth at other times, but the main damage is done by these three asteroids.

> > We also read that it rained. Most people seem to ignore the fact that the springs burst forth and concentrate on the rain, presuming a vapor canopy which collapsed as being the major source of the waters. There may have been some kind of a vapor canopy over the early earth, but it would have been much higher than the clouds we see today if life on earth was to have survived. The majority of the rain which fell was from the waters which had burst forth, carrying with them massive amounts of pulverized debris from under the crust. They would have burst forth to a height greater than even our volcanoes of today. This would have produced a hot rain full of rocks and mud as well as remains of any vegetation and biological life which were in the vicinity of where the waters burst out. In other words, this was a rain that was like no other before, and there has been none other like it since.

There had to be a vapor canopy. It had not rained since Adam was created. I don't think there was "a hot rain full of rocks and mud." I believe that there was a deluge of water, a cloudburst, that God had hoarded up for that very purpose.

> > So what about the fossils? And why are they in the apparent order that they are in the geologic column?

I believe that is the order in which God created them as he built up the food chain. A large animal couldn't be created until its food supply was present. To me, the food chain is proof that it took a lot of thought to produce life on this planet. It could not have just happened. Even the beautiful markings giving birds and animals such cute faces didn't just happen. Could the face of a racoon just happen? No!

Have a Christmas to remember. Agape

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