Pro and Con 1385

Posted 1-15-08

Aurora

Incoming e-mail, Re:

You used to have a picture and description of the super nova that burst on January 23, 1999. I wonder if you would still have it on file? I would love to have a copy of it. Thank you so much

My reply

Here is a picture of one. It was quite a blast. (I am not sure of the date.) Agape

Tsunami Linked to Yellowstone Crater

Jan 14, 08 http://enews.earthlink.net/article/gen?guid=20080114/478aec50_3ca6_15526200801141825551465

AP - YELLOWSTONE NATIONAL PARK, Wyo. - Tsunami-like waves created by an earthquake may have triggered the world's largest known hydrothermal explosion some 13,000 years ago...

The explosion created the Mary Bay crater that stretches more than one mile across along the north edge of Yellowstone Lake. Debris from the explosion has been found miles away.

Lisa Morgan of the U.S. Geological Survey told a gathering of scientists over the weekend at Mammoth Hot Springs that an earthquake may have displaced more than 77 million cubic feet of water in Yellowstone Lake, creating huge waves that essentially unsealed a capped geothermal system....

Morgan said that over the last 14,000 years there have been 20 hydrothermal explosions in Yellowstone that mostly left craters bigger than football fields. They resulted in well-known Yellowstone landmarks such as Mary Bay, Turbid Lake and Indian Pond, all near the north edge of Yellowstone Lake.

The explosions happen when hot water just below the surface flashes into steam and breaks through the surface.

Incoming e-mail, Re: The Crucifixion Sky and Now

Your date for the crucifixion of Christ, April 6, 30 AD, Thursday, between 12 noon and 3pm is pictured in the sky very prophetically in light of the current and future sky pictures.

From Jerusalem on that day at 12 noon, the star Algol, Perseus was transiting across the meridian. This marked the time Jesus was on the cross. The Sun (Aries) had just crossed the meridian at 11:41am with Jupiter and Venus nearby in Pisces just to the West and Mercury next to the Pleiades (making the 7th star) was nearby in Taurus to the East and Saturn was a little further East at the Orion Stargate point and close to Propus, Gemini. Mars and Nepturn were in Capricornus, Uranus in conjunction with Regulus, Leo, and the Moon in the feet of Virgo. At 3pm when He died, Saturn, Propus, and the Orion Stargate were on the Meridian line and the star Betelguese, Orion was also transiting the Meridian line.

For the next two weeks, eyes will be focused on Comet Holmes as it passes over the star Algol in Perseus. The five naked eye planets are now all visible in the evening and morning sky with Mercury emerging in the evening sky from solar conjunction last month and Jupiter emerging in the morning sky from its conjunction also with the Sun last month. Mars has just crossed the Orion Stargate and reversed direction (retrograde) and will pass again in late February. Venus is in Ophiuchus rising before Jupiter and heading for a February 1st conjuntion with Jupiter in Sagittarius. Saturn is near Rho Leonis, between the feet of the Lion.

All of the above is easy to reproduce in Your Sky so you can see the patterns. As I mentioned in a recent message, I am finding that the view from Saturn/3rd heaven, looking back at the Sun/Earth inner solar system is proving to be invaluable in providing new insights into the magnificent patterns displayed in the sky. From Saturn, at the time of the crucifixion, the Sun/Earth inner planets were all located in Sagittarius near the Southern Stargate and Galactic center. Jupiter and Neptune were nearby in conjunction in Capricornus. Uranus was in the heart of Virgo. The picture is, of course, completely different from the Earth view, but amazingly fitting, don't you think. And, when looking at the Saturn view sky on September 14, 2015, I see the interesting parallels with the Earth view 3pm crucifixion sky with Saturn, Propus, Orion Stargate and Pleiades all playing a major role.

From Saturn, Jupiter is near Propus, the Earth becomes the 7th Pleiad, in fact the Sun and all inner planets are between the Hyades and the Pleiades, Uranus is in Aries and Neptune between Aquarius and Pisces. I had to reread all my books (10) on the ancient and biblical constellation interpretations to fully appreciate the implications of where the Sun and planets are now as seen from Saturn and their course over the next 7-8 years as they move from Aquarius to Taurus/Gemini. I could write volumes about it; but, I know you and others will understand. Gary

My reply

Thanks much for filling in what I can't find myself. I went to YourSky (http://www.fourmilab.ch/cgi-bin/Yoursky), and set it for Jerusalem at noon April 6, 30 AD. The Sun in Aries (the Ram) fits, for Jesus is the Sun of Righteousness (Malachi 4:2) and the Lamb of God. Nisan is his month. The Crucifixion, Resurrection and Second Coming are in Nisan. That it got dark on April 6, 30 AD doesn't show on YourSky. That was a miracle. Jesus is the light of the world, so it was fitting that the Sun was darkened at the Crucifixion. Saturn in Gemini fits, for Jesus is the Bridegroom in Gemini, and Saturn is his throne (Eze. 1:1,26-28). The full moon under Virgo's feet is right for Passover too. Even Uranus at Regulus (the little king) in Leo suggests that Jesus is the Lion of the tribe of Judah and a king.

The crescent Moon under Virgo's feet at his birth, and the Full Moon under Virgo's feet at the Crucifixion is perfect. God never misses a chance to symbolize the truth for us. In Gen. 1:14, God said, "Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for SIGNS, and for seasons, and for days, and years". Psalm 147:4 says, "He telleth the number of the stars; he calleth them all by their names." Like Regulus, the names God gave the stars are full of meaning for us.

> > Algol, Perseus was transiting across the meridian

I had no idea of that. Algol stands for Satan, and I can imagine that he was watching the Crucifixion closely. Knowing that about Algol adds a lot to the picture.

> > From Saturn, at the time of the crucifixion, the Sun/Earth inner planets were all located in Sagittarius near the Southern Stargate and Galactic center. Jupiter and Neptune were nearby in conjunction in Capricornus. Uranus was in the heart of Virgo. The picture is, of course, completely different from the Earth view, but amazingly fitting, don't you think.

Yes, very fitting. I didn't know you could do that. Thanks much. Sagittarius depicts that Jesus has two natures. He is both man and God. Agape

666 church motion doomed

By Chris Moncrieff, 1-10-08

A motion calling for the disestablishment of the Church of England appeared on the House of Commons order paper today - bizarrely numbered 666, the number associated with the Antichrist.

Bob Russell, Liberal Democrat MP for Colchester, one of the signatories, said: "It is is incredible that a motion like this should have, by chance, acquired this significant number....

New 'super-Earth' found in space

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6589157.stm

Astronomers have found the most Earth-like planet outside our Solar System to date, a world which could have water running on its surface.

By ANNE GEARAN, Jan 10, 08
http://enews.earthlink.net/article/gen?guid=20080110/4785a650_3ca6_1552620080110472751738

..."In order for there to be lasting peace, President Abbas and Prime Minister Olmert have to come together and make tough choices," Bush said. "And I'm convinced they will. And I believe it's possible - not only possible, I believe it's going to happen - that there be a signed peace treaty by the time I leave office (in January 2009). That's what I believe."...

Britain's Blair says Mideast peace deal possible this year

Jan 11, 08
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1199964899851&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

...Blair, the Middle East envoy for the so-called Quartet peacemakers - the United States, European Union, United Nations and Russia - agreed with US President George W. Bush that Israelis and Palestinians could reach an agreement in 2008.

"I think given the determination there is to succeed and given the desire on the part of the American leadership, the Israeli leadership, the Palestinian leadership to see it happen, I think people could be surprised this year," he said....

Incoming e-mail, Re: Bush Expects Israel-PA Treaty by January 2009

TIME IS AT HAND WATCH AND PRAY;

PRAISE THE LORD TO ALL, IF THIS IS TO BE, i WILL ADMONISH US ALL TO START LOOKING UP FOR OUR REDEMPTION DRAWETH NIGH, i am NOT TRYING TO CONVINCE NO (ONE) i am WITH EVERY GOD GIVEN CELL IN THIS VESSEL OF EARTH WARNING US ALL THAT THE BRIDE OF CHRIST WILL NOT ENTER INTO THE 70TH WEEK, BASE ON THE REVELATION THE LORD HAS REVEALED TO HIS servant, i am VERY MUCH CONCERN ABOUT YOU ALL ,TO LOOK WELL INTO YOUR GOING, GOD WILL NOT AND CAN NOT LIE, MANY OF US BELIEVE THAT THE BRIDE OF CHRIST WILL GO THROUGH PART OF JACOB TROUBLE, NOT SO! MY JOB IS TO POLISH HIS FEET, 1JOHN 2:20vr.

(ACTS 2:38th vr).

My reply

I don't think the Bride of Christ that is the wise-virgin group (Mt. 25:1f) will enter the Tribulation. They will be caught up in the First-Trump Pre-Trib Rapture (I Thess. 4:16,17) and will sing the NEW SONG (Rev. 5:9). However, it seems that the 144,000 Israelites will be added to the Bride group at the Last-Trump Pre-Wrath Rapture (I Cor. 15:51,52).

Rev. 14:3-5 says of the 144,000, "they sung as it were a NEW SONG before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and NO MAN COULD LEARN THAT SONG BUT THE HUNDRED AND FORTY AND FOUR THOUSAND, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for THEY ARE VIRGINS. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the FIRSTFRUITS unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are WITHOUT FAULT before the throne of God."

The Time of Jacob's Trouble is not the whole Tribulation. It is one day, the Day of God's Wrath, a day like no other--ever.

Jer. 30:7 says, "Alas! for THAT DAY is great, so that NONE IS LIKE IT: it is even THE TIME OF JACOB'S TROUBLE; but he shall be saved out of it."

Dan. 12:1,2 says, "And at that time (when the False Prophet is deposed, Dan. 11:45) shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be A TIME OF TROUBLE, SUCH AS NEVER WAS SINCE THERE WAS A NATION EVEN TO THAT SAME TIME: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake".

It seems that the Bride group can be numbered. At the second Rapture, all except the 144,000 cannot be numbered. Rev 7:9 says, "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands".

Since the 40-year generation since the Sign of the End, the Six-Day War of 1967 (Mt. 24:32-34), has ended. I think we are now in THE TIME OF THE END when the wise can understand. Dan. 12:9,10 says, "Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till THE TIME OF THE END. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but THE WISE SHALL UNDERSTAND." Agape

Chariot of the Cherubim

By Marilyn Agee

Hebrews 9:23,24 shows that things making up the Tabernacle were patterns of things in the heavens. It says, "It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us".

Isa. 40:22 says that God "stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out AS A TENT to dwell in."

The inner covering of the Tabernacle represented the planets. If one stood inside and looked up, he saw cherubim embroidered on each of the 10 widths of fabric. The widths represented the 10 original planets, the 10 cherubim: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Rahab (now our Asteroid Belt), Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune and Pluto. The width representing Earth folded over the back corner of the Tabernacle.

This helps us understand Mt. 21:42. "Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected (i.e., Jesus), the same is become THE HEAD OF THE CORNER (i.e., the King of the Earth): this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?"

1 Chron. 28:18 mentions, "gold for THE PATTERN OF THE CHARIOT OF THE CHERUBIMS, that spread out their wings, and covered the ark of the covenant of the LORD." What does the chariot of the cherubim represent?

Gen. 3:24 says, "So he drove out the man (Adam); and he placed at the east (i.e., in the eastern sky) of the garden of Eden Cherubims (planets), and a flaming sword (an asteroid) which turned every way, to keep (guard) the way of (to) the tree of life" (which is in Heaven, Saturn).

In the sky, there is a cherubim (Mars), the flaming sword (an asteroid called Wormwood), and a cherubim (Jupiter). Overlay this on the Ark with its cherubim on each side. This way, we can understand that the flaming sword will strike because the Ten Commandments written on the two stone tablets have been broken. There were two stones, because the asteroid called Wormwood (bitterness) will break in two at the Roche Limit (Rev. 8:8-11).

Eze. 10:2 says, "And he spake unto the man clothed with linen, and said, Go in between the wheels, even under the cherub (i.e., Satan; Eze. 28:14-16) and fill thine hand with coals of fire from between the cherubims (i.e., between Mars and Jupiter), and scatter them over the city (Jerusalem). And he went in in my sight."

Eze 28:14-16 says, "Thou art the anointed cherub (Satan) that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God (i.e., Saturn); thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire (i.e., on Rahab, the planet that split up). Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering (guarding) cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire" (i.e., from the asteroid Wormwood).

1 Sam. 4:4 says, "So the people sent to Shiloh, that they might bring from thence the ark of the covenant of the LORD of hosts, which dwelleth between the cherubims" (picturing that Saturn is between Jupiter and Uranus). 2 Sa 6:2 says, "David arose, and went with all the people that were with him from Baale of Judah, to bring up from thence the ark of GOD, WHOSE NAME IS CALLED BY THE NAME OF THE LORD OF HOSTS (i.e., Christ, the Redeemer, YHWH of hosts; Isa. 44:6) THAT DWELLETH BETWEEN THE CHERUBIMS." Psa. 99:1 says of the Day of God's Wrath, "The LORD reigneth; let the people tremble: he sitteth between the cherubims; let the earth be moved." Earth will be moved when the two asteroid pieces hit it.

Earth will also be knocked upside down. Isa 24:1 says, "Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof."

Psa. 18:6-24 says, "In my distress I called upon the LORD, and cried unto my God: he heard my voice out of his temple, and my cry came before him, even into his ears. Then the earth shook and trembled; the foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken, because HE WAS WROTH (it was the Day of God's Wrath). There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it. He bowed the heavens also, and came down: and darkness was under his feet. And he rode upon a cherub, and did fly: yea, he did fly upon the wings of the wind. He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies. At the brightness that was before him his thick clouds passed, hail stones and coals of fire. The LORD also thundered in the heavens, and THE HIGHEST GAVE HIS VOICE; hail stones and coals of fire. Yea, he sent out his arrows, and scattered them; and he shot out lightnings, and discomfited them. Then the channels of waters were seen (i.e., the mountain-sized asteroid hits the Mediterranean Sea), and the foundations of the world were discovered at thy rebuke, O LORD, at the blast of the breath of thy nostrils.

"HE SENT FROM ABOVE, HE TOOK ME, HE DREW ME OUT OF MANY WATERS. (this is the Pre-Wrath Rapture) He delivered me from my strong enemy (Gog's army), and from them which hated me: for they were too strong for me. They prevented me in the day of my calamity: but the LORD was my stay. HE BROUGHT ME FORTH ALSO INTO A LARGE PLACE (Saturn, Heaven); he delivered me, because he delighted in me. (At the Judgment Seat of Christ) The LORD REWARDED ME according to my righteousness; according to the cleanness of my hands hath he recompensed me. For I have kept the ways of the LORD, and have not wickedly departed from my God. For all his judgments were before me, and I did not put away his statutes from me. I was also upright before him, and I kept myself from mine iniquity. Therefore hath the LORD recompensed me according to my righteousness, according to the cleanness of my hands in his eyesight."

Incoming e-mail, Re: Jewish feasts

I was reading the First Fruits website (www.ffruits.org) and I found a very interesting correlation between the Jewish feasts and God’s salvation plan for mankind, which many Christians don’t have any knowledge about. I also think that precisely because of that, they have difficulty in seeing that there will be two raptures and not only one.

FEAST
SCRIPTURE REFERENCES
PROPHETIC FULFILLMENT

#1 Passover
John 12:24
Death of Jesus--Seed Dies (fulfilled)

#2 Unleavened Bread
John 6:51; 1 Cor 5:7-8
Burial of Jesus--Seed Planted (fulfilled)

#3 Firstfruits
1 Cor 15:20
Resurrection of Jesus--Sheaf of Grain (fulfilled)

#4 Pentecost-Day of Firstfruits
Luke 21:36, Rev 4:1
Firstfruits Rapture--Two Loaves with Leaven

#5 Trumpets
1 Thess 4:16-17; 1 Cor 15:51-52 Rev. 7:9-17
Main Harvest Rapture--All Remaining Christians Raptured

#6 Atonement
Dt. 4:30-31; Zec 12:10; Jer 8:20
Reaping of Corners--Israel Saved in the Tribulation

#7 Tabernacles
Mt 25:32
Gleaning--Gentiles Saved in the Tribulation

My point is: if the first rapture takes place in the 7 th day of Unleavened Bread, what event would fulfill Pentecost, taking into account that all feasts’ fullfilment seem to be in chronological order?

I have another question for you. What is your interpretation of the bridegroom’s “midnight cry”? Do you think that we will have any warning before the firstfruits rapture (to “trim our lamps”)? What sign do you think it could be?

Thank you so much for your attention. Best regards

My reply

> > My point is: if the first rapture takes place in the 7 th day of Unleavened Bread, what event would fulfill Pentecost, taking into account that all feasts’ fullfilment seem to be in chronological order?

Pentecost was fulfilled in 30 AD. It doesn't have to have another fulfillment. Trumpets, Day of Atonement and Tabernacles have not yet been fulfilled.

On his web site, at http://ffruits.org/firstfruits/ComingRapture.aspx Lyn Mise said, "The Firstfruits Rapture (i.e., the taking out of faithful, mature, Philadelphia Christians) is pretribulational, and the Main Harvest Rapture (i.e., the final taking out of the remaining Christians who have been refined and purified by the tribulation) is midtribulational. This is confirmed both doctrinally and typologically throughout the Scriptures, as will be seen."

I agree with the first of two Raptures being Pre-Trib and disagree on the Mid-Trib Rapture. The only Rapture I know of in the middle of the Tribulation is of Moses and Elijah, and that is 3.5 days after Mid-Trib.

It looks like Trumpets will be fulfilled on the Day of God's Wrath, the great and terrible Day of the Lord, at the end of the shortened Tribulation. The Pre-Wrath Rapture of the Tribulation saints is that day (Rev. 7:9,14), before the asteroids of Rev. 8:8-11 strike Earth.

Rev. 6:15-17 says, "And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

The Pre-Wrath Rapture is in Rev. 7, before the 7 trumpets are given to the 7 angels in Rev. 8.

I disagree with Lyn Mize on several points. For instance, in "Preparation for the Day of the Lord" (Rev. 7:1-8) (http://ffruits.org/firstfruits/RevelationF.aspx), he said, "There is a period of calm in the middle of the tribulation period before the wrath of the Lord is brought to bear upon the earth. It is during this calm that the Main Harvest Rapture of the Church takes place, and the 144,000 Jewish Firstfruits are sealed to protect them from the wrath of the Lamb. The first eight verses of this chapter describe this sealing of the 144,000, and the last 9 verses describe the Main Harvest Rapture of the Church.

"These 144,000 Jewish Firstfruits are Jews who were saved after the Firstfruits Rapture during the first half of the tribulation period. They must pass through the time of Jacob's trouble, which is the last half of the tribulation period, but they will be miraculously protected from the wrath of God during this time."

The time of Jacob's trouble is one single day, a day like no other, the Day of God's Wrath, the Feast of Trumpets, not "the last half of the tribulation period." Jer. 30:7 says, "Alas! for that DAY is great, so that NONE IS LIKE IT: it is even the time of Jacob's trouble; but he shall be saved out of it."

Dan. 12:1,2 says, "And at that time (when the False Prophet will come to his end; Dan. 11:45) shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as NEVER WAS SINCE THERE WAS A NATION EVEN TO THAT SAME TIME: and at that time (Day of God's Wrath, Feast of Trumpets, Day of the Lord) thy people (including the 144,000) shall be delivered (i.e., the Pre-Wrath Rapture of Rev. 7:14), every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake".

Below are some other things I disagree with Lyn Mise on:

"Other than Dan and Ephraim the remainder of the 10 lost tribes of Israel are in the area of the world known as Kurdistan, and they are known as Kurds....

"The tribe of Dan is known in the world as Celts. The relatively small number that remain today are known as Welshmen, Cornishmen, Bretons, Scottish Highlanders, and the main group known as Irish. The Antichrist is Irish, and he probably does not know that he is of the lost tribe of Dan....

"The Antichrist is Irish, and he probably does not know that he is of the lost tribe of Dan. King Authur was Celtic, and the Antichrist has already duplicated the life of King Authur, which has been handed down in the Arthurian legends. Antichrist is on the verge of revealing himself to show that his mortal head wound has been healed. There will be a brief return to Camelot, but it will end in mass destruction and the judgment from God Almighty.

"It is not absolutely certain, but it appears that the lost tribe of Ephraim is known to the world as American Indians...."

> > I have another question for you. What is your interpretation of the bridegroom’s “midnight cry”?

All I know about the midnight cry is what Mt. 25:6 says, "at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him."

> > Do you think that we will have any warning before the firstfruits rapture (to “trim our lamps”)? What sign do you think it could be?

Noah got a 7-day warning, so we might get one. However, if the Rapture comes on the 7th day of Unleavened Bread, the first day of Unleavened Bread could serve as a 7-day warning. We should confess all our sins (as per I John 1:9) now.

I don't know what sign it would be, but with all the astronomical signs we have had, it could be a sign in the heavens. How about one in the Moon?

Luke 21:25-28 says, "And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring (as in tsunamis?); Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken. And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh."

In http://ffruits.org/firstfruits/ComingRapture.aspx Lyn Mise said, "When the Church is completely removed in the middle of the tribulation, Satan then turns his vengeance upon God’s earthly people, the Jews. The last half of the tribulation period is called the “time of Jacob’s trouble”, since Satan spends his time persecuting the Jews....

"No Christian or member of the Church will be on the earth during the last half of the tribulation period. The last half of the tribulation period is the Day of the Lord. It is the time that God’s wrath will be unleashed upon the earth in the trumpet and vial judgments described in Revelation.

"It is at the time that Antichrist sets himself up in the temple that marks the beginning of the Day of the Lord"

I think the Day of the Lord is one day, the same day that the Wrath of God falls on Earth. The Pre-Wrath Rapture takes place after the Day of God's Wrath starts, but before the wrath hits Earth. It seems to be the 2300th day of the shortened Tribulation. It is the time of Jacob's trouble. Agape

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