Pro and Con 1402

Posted 4-5-08

Holy Fire lit a man's candle in the Church of the Holy Sepulcher on Holy Saturday in 1994

My reply to a post on the Five Doves site

Re: Sam Orlando (24 Jan 2008)
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/jan2008/samo124.htm

> > I am totally convinced that April 26th, 2008 is the Feast of Firstfruits and have posted on this before. It was brought up that firstfruits is not on the 26th but is on the 27th. I would like to point out here that it starts at evening of the 26th and runs to the evening of the 27th. I believe that the Rapture and Trib start at the exact moment of the start of Firstfuits which is of course the evening of the 26th.

On the Hebrew Calendar in 30 AD, Thursday, Nisan 13 was Preparation Day and the Crucifixion. Friday, Nisan 14, was Passover; Saturday, Nisan 15, was the Feast of Unleavened Bread; Sunday, Nisan 16, was Firstfruits; and Friday, Nisan 21, was the 7th day of Unleavened Bread.

In figuring Firstfruits this year, should we go by the date of Nisan 16 or by the day of the week, the first Sunday following Passover?

Going by the date, Nisan 16 (Firstfruits) is Monday, April 21, 2008.

Going by the day of the week, the Eastern Orthodox Church figures that Easter/Firstfruits is the Sunday following Passover. That Sunday will be Nisan 22, April 27, 2008.

In figuring the 7th day of Unleavened Bread, the date, Nisan 21, is Saturday, April 26, 2008. Therefore, those who think the Rapture will come on the day Jericho fell, Nisan 21, will be expecting it on Saturday, April 26, 2008.

Those that think the Rapture will come on Firstfruits, the Sunday following Passover, will expect it on Sunday, Nisan 22, April 27, 2008.

In each Jewish day, there are 12 hours of night, followed by 12 hours of day. Saturday, Nisan 21, April 26, starts at 6 PM on April 25, and lasts until 6 PM on April 26. Sunday, Nisan 22, April 27, starts at 6 PM on April 26, and lasts until 6 PM on April 27.

Which day seems most favorable for the Rapture? How about both? There are always two dates on Earth at the same time. What if it is on April 26 in California and on April 27 in Australia? Both dates seem logical.

About 1 PM on Holy Saturday, April 26, 2008, the day before the Orthodox Easter, the Holy Fire is due to descend at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem. It may mark the day of the Rapture.

God is in control. He gave Shawn-Marie Cole a vision and then last December told her that it is time. He made it possible for Shawn-Marie to talk to President Bush. As a result, 6 PM Saturday, April 26, 2008, has been set for prayers for our nation to begin. Shawn-Marie calls that program REIGNdown USA.

Thirty-nine states in the US have joined so far, as have the District of Columbia, the Philippines, Haiti, New Zealand, Pakistan and South Africa. What a time for the Rapture to take place. Those left behind would see groups being caught up. GodTV and TBN will be broadcasting the prayer ceremony to the world. People would see the Rapture taking place on their TVs. What a witness that would be. Surely the Lord has planned this for the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture.

Psalm 72:6 says, "He shall come down LIKE RAIN upon the mown grass: as showers that water the earth." That makes REIGNdown USA a well-chosen name.

Many will see the Rapture take place, fear and trust in the LORD. Psalm 40:1-3 says, "I waited patiently for the LORD; and he inclined (bent down) unto me, and heard my cry. He brought me up also out of an horrible pit, out of the miry clay, and set my feet upon a rock (the 3rd Heaven, Saturn), and established my goings (the Rapture). And he hath put a NEW SONG (sung after the Rapture, Rev. 5:9) in my mouth, even praise unto our God: MANY SHALL SEE IT, AND FEAR, AND SHALL TRUST IN THE LORD."

It seems that REIGNdown USA will guarantee that many will see the Rapture take place. Thus, not only will people see on TV Moses and Elijah going up 3.5 days after Mid-Trib, it looks like people will see on TV the Pre-Trib Rapture taking place. That is enough reason for the explosion of satellite and High Definition TV technology in our days.

> > Could the rapture happen when the Sun is eight degrees below the Horizon in Jerusalem on April 26th when Firstfruits officially begins according to Jewish reckoning? If I have your curiosity tweaked right now then I will go ahead and tell you that will be at 7:54pm on April 26th, 2008.
> > For me since I live in Houston and CST is 8 hours difference from Jerusalem time then it will be 11:54 am, Saturday April 26, 2008.

If the Rapture happened at 11:54 AM, people would miss seeing the REIGNdown USA program that is to start at 6 PM in Washington, DC. I hope that it will be seen, and people the world over will see on TV people praying for their nation and then the Rapture taking place swiftly. In her vision, Shawn-Marie saw a bright light, which she called the hand of God, wipe the USA, then Canada and Mexico, then go toward the Middle East. That sounds like the Rapture to me.

When the Pre-Wrath Rapture takes place at the end of the shortened Tribulation, so many will be caught up that no man will be able to number them (Rev. 7:9). Those that see the Pre-Trib Rapture take place and are left behind will change their minds in a hurry. The foolish virgins will confess their sins so God can cleanse them of all sins. I John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

I think the Rapture will be a very dramatic event. It will not only shake up the foolish virgins, it will bring many nonbelievers into the fold. Agape

REIGNdown USA

http://www.reigndownusa.com/index.html
http://www.reigndownusa.com/lead.html

"Indeed God is doing something beyond what we could have possibly imagined. How wonderful it will be to help lead thousands of Christ's beloved children into a right relationship with Him through the Holy Spirit by recognizing that we can do nothing without Him. IT ALL BEGINS WHEN WE INDIVIDUALLY ASK FOR PERSONAL REPENTANCE OF OUR TRANSGRESSIONS, BELIEVING THAT OUR LOVING SAVIOR WILL FORGIVE US AND POUR DOWN AN UNPRECEDENTED BLESSING ON OUR FAMILIES, OUR COMMUNITIES, AND OUR NATION."

My comment

Repentance, yes! It could make the difference between wise and foolish virgins.

Incoming e-mail, Re: Location of Heaven

Some friends recently asked if I thought Heaven was in the north. I have heard people say this before. They gave several verses. Below is a summary of information similar to what they said. What do you think? How do the verses listed fit with the idea that Heaven is Saturn? I don't think that Saturn could be said to be toward the north, could it? Thanks
---
"HEAVEN IN THE NORTH"
http://www.biblelineministries.org/articles/basearch.php3?action=full&mainkey=HEAVEN+IN+THE+NORTH

Where is heaven? Have you ever thought about it? Does the Bible have any clues?

...It appears from a study of the Scriptures that heaven is located in the North in our universe. When they would offer the sacrifices in the Old Testament they would offer them northward toward the Lord. Notice what Moses said in Leviticus 1:11, "And he shall kill it on the side of the altar northward before the Lord: and the priests, Aaron's sons, shall sprinkle his blood round about upon the altar." The implication is clear that the Lord is in the north. "Northward before the Lord," says God's Word.

North is always the same direction from this planet no matter what time of day....

The Bible also implies that salvation comes from the north. In Psalms75:6 we read, "For promotion (salvation) cometh neither from the east, nor from the west, nor from the south." Therefore, we conclude that salvation comes from the north since it is the only choice left. God and heaven must be located in the north of our universe.

Thirty-five hundred years ago in the book of Job in the Old Testament, God gave us two amazing scientific facts in one verse. Job 26:7 says, "He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing." One scientific fact is that the earth is hung in space upon nothing....

Amazingly the Bible did not include any of these myths and fairy tales, but simply stated that the earth was hung upon nothing. Science cannot give us a better description than this. If you ask a scientist what holds the earth in place, he will say "gravity". If you ask him what "gravity" is, he will answer "that which holds the earth in place." Actually, they have no better answer than the one God gave us 3,500 years ago in the book of Job.

Job 26:7 also says, "He stretcheth out the north over the empty place." Here is another amazing scientific fact. There is an empty place or void in the north of our universe. It was first discovered with the 200-inch telescope on Mount Palomar, California, and is now being studied by three separate observatories across the country. This empty place has been found to be so large that it could contain 2,000 milky ways. The Milky Way is 100,000 light years across. That would mean that light traveling at 186,000 miles per second would take 100,000 years to travel from one end of the Milky Way to the other.

We believe that heaven is located in that void in the north of our universe.

Lucifer (Satan) in his rebellion (when he tried to overthrow God) spoke of this void in the north. Isaiah 14:13 tells us, "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the side of the north." This must refer to this empty corridor in the north where there are no stars. Heaven is said to be there.

One fascinating passage is found in Psalms 48:1-2. "Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the mountain of his holiness. Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is Mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King." Without a doubt, this is a reference to the New Jerusalem and not to the earthly Jerusalem. "But you are come unto mount Zion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to our innumerable company of angels (Hebrew 12:22)."

When the Bible says, "Beautiful for situation," as the verse continues to explain, it is a reference to the fact that the city is located in the north of our universe. From "the sides of the north" God has a beautiful overview of the entire universe and of the whole earth.

One day this New Jerusalem will come down from heaven to the new earth according to Revelation 21:1,2. "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth; for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

We believers have a home in heaven waiting for us in this heavenly city, the New Jerusalem. Jesus tells us, "In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there you may be also (John 14:2,3)."

You can know for sure before you die that you will go there to live if you simply trust Jesus Christ as your Saviour. I John 5:13 says, "These things I am writing to you that you believe on the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life."

My reply

Before I found out that Saturn was the throne of Jesus, the God/man (Eze. 1:1,26-28), I thought Heaven was in the north. Visually, there is a space in the north that is either empty or blocked from our view by a dark cloud. Since Job 26:7 says, "He stretcheth out the north over the empty place, and hangeth the earth upon nothing", I now think it is an empty place. After seeing the Earth from space, we now know for sure that there is no cable dangling out of the north to support the Earth, and the Earth is not resting on anything in the south either.

The Hebrew for north is tsaphon, "From H6845; properly hidden, that is, dark; used only of the north as a quarter (gloomy and unknown)."

The root H6845 is tsa^phan, "A primitive root; to hide (by covering over); by implication to hoard or reserve; figuratively to deny; specifically (favorably) to protect, (unfavorably) to lurk: - esteem, hide (-den one, self), lay up, lurk (be set) privily, (keep) secret (-ly, place)."

Paul was caught up to the third heaven in II Cor. 12:2. It says, "I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up (harpazo, as in II Thess. 4:16) to the third heaven." From Earth, the three heavens are Mars, Jupiter and Saturn. At the Rapture, we will be caught up to the third heaven.

This agrees with the lampstand in the Temple. Josephus, a Pharisee priest, showed that the 7 lamps represented (1) the Sun, (2) Mercury, (3) Venus, (4) Earth, (5) Mars, (6) Jupiter, and (7) Saturn (Ant. III. VI. 7).

Eph 4:10 says, "He that descended is the same also that ascended up FAR ABOVE ALL HEAVENS (probably atmospheric), that he might fill all things."

The Greek for "heavens" is ouranos, "Perhaps from the same as G3735 (through the idea of elevation); the sky; by extension heaven (as the abode of God); by implication happiness, power, eternity; specifically the Gospel (Christianity): - air, heaven ([-ly]), sky."

It seems that in our translations of the scriptures "heaven" refers to Jesus' throne on Saturn, and "heavens" refers to our atmospheric heavens.

> > Lucifer (Satan) in his rebellion (when he tried to overthrow God) spoke of this void in the north. Isaiah 14:13 tells us, "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the side of the north." This must refer to this empty corridor in the north where there are no stars. Heaven is said to be there.
> > One fascinating passage is found in Psalms 48:1-2. "Great is the Lord, and greatly to be praised in the city of our God, in the mountain of his holiness. Beautiful for situation, the joy of the whole earth, is Mount Zion, on the sides of the north, the city of the great King."

In "the side of the north" can fit Saturn. Eze 1:15-17 says, "Now as I beheld the living creatures (lively things), behold one wheel (orbit) upon the EARTH (a terrestrial planet) by the living creatures (lively things, i.e., the terrestrial planets), with his four faces (the same faces that on the flags at the cardinal compass points when Israel camped in the desert). The appearance of the wheels (orbits) and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were A WHEEL IN THE MIDDLE OF A WHEEL (i.e., concentric orbits). When they went, they went upon their four sides (they travel in four directions as they orbit): and they turned not (aside) when they went." The planets have to keep within their orbit.

Eze 1:22 says, "And the likeness of the firmament (expanse of space) upon the heads (i.e., farther out in space, in the side of the north) of the living creature (lively creature) was as the colour of the terrible crystal, stretched forth over their heads above" (i.e., farther out in space than the four terrestrial planets.)

Eze 1:26-28 says, "And above the firmament (expanse of space) that was over their heads (i.e., farther out in space) was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone (sapphire is Jesus' September's birthstone, meaning Heaven): and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man (a God/man, verse 1, i.e., Jesus) above upon it. And I saw as the colour of amber (Saturn is amber), as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins (from the equator) even upward, and from the appearance of his loins (from the equator) even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about (Saturn's ring system). As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about." Heaven has a halo.

> > Lucifer (Satan) in his rebellion (when he tried to overthrow God) spoke of this void in the north. Isaiah 14:13 tells us, "For thou hast said in thine heart, I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the side of the north." This must refer to this empty corridor in the north where there are no stars. Heaven is said to be there.

I have a different perspective on this. When looking at the sky from California, north is up, overhead. When visible, Saturn is seen rising in the east, traveling across the southern sky, and setting in the west. That fits the sides of the north pretty well. Agape

PS:
> > The Bible also implies that salvation comes from the north. In Psalms75:6 we read, "For promotion (salvation) cometh neither from the east, nor from the west, nor from the south." Therefore, we conclude that salvation comes from the north since it is the only choice left.

I looked up the word "promotion," and got a surprise. Strong's said, "rum - A primitive root; to be high actively to rise or raise (in various applications, literally or figuratively): - bring up, exalt (self), extol, give, go up, haughty, heave (up), (be, lift up on, make on, set up on, too) high (-er, one), hold up, levy, lift (-er) up, (be) lofty, (X a-) loud, mount up, offer (up), + presumptuously, (be) promote (-ion), proud, set up, tall (-er), take (away, off, up)".

That sounds like the Rapture. Maybe we will meet Jesus in the clouds in the north.

His reply, Re: Location of Heaven / New Jerusalem

I hope all is well with you and your family. I have been watching with you for the coming of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ for many years. This is the most exciting time I can ever remember in all those years.

You recently said in Pro and Con 1400:

"The other meaning of Jericho, moon, might tie in too for the time will come when New Jerusalem will come down and orbit the Earth like our Moon."

I wonder if when New Jerusalem comes down like a satellite of earth if it might be located permanently above the north pole instead of orbiting like the moon. If so, that might be at least a partial answer to the question I emailed you about earlier related to the references that seem to indicate that Heaven is to the north - what do you think?? Thanks

My reply

Well, let's think about it. I don't know a lot about these things, but I can't imagine what kind of a sky hook could keep a rock constantly above Earth's north pole. If almost stationary, wouldn't Earth's gravity pull it down?

The Moon circles the Earth once a month. Wouldn't another rock out there need do about the same to remain in a stable orbit? Jupiter's moons orbit the planet. Saturn's moons orbit the planet. Even the ice crystals in the ring system orbit Saturn. I don't know of any moons whose orbits take them over the poles, either.

An artificial satellite for satellite TV stays almost in one position with reference to the Earth, but it has to use a bit of fuel and some small thrusters about every 2 weeks to stay in that position. When its fuel is about to run out, it is supposed to be headed out into the outer-space junkyard to keep it from falling to Earth.

Lately, there was a satellite that failed. It was gradually falling toward Earth. Rather than take a chance on it hitting the ocean instead of land, they hit it with a missile to destroy its fuel tank, the most dangerous part, and hoped the rest of the pieces would be small enough to burn up as they fall into the atmosphere. Without propulsion, artificial satellites gradually come down. It makes sense in my head that they would, because of the pull of Earth's gravity.

God is all powerful, but I think there is a good chance that another Moon called New Jerusalem will also orbit Earth. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re:

Subject: Urgent: arrival date x departure date

As I was setting up the website and translating your articles, I couldn't help thinking that the real rapture date might not be on the 7th day of Unleavened Bread, when day Joshua and God's people made Jericho's wall fall down flat, as told in Josha chapters 5 and 6.

It came to my mind that the 7th day of Unleavened Bread would be the day we would be entering Heaven itself (arrival date), not departing from here.

The reason this came to my mind was because I was reading Nu 33:3-8 (which is in Pro&Con 1386, while I was translating) and I made a correlation of it with the circling of Jericho 7 times. In BOTH CASES (Numbers 33 and Joshua 5,6), the DEPARTURE date was on Nisan 15 and the ARRIVAL date was Nisan 21. Is that correct?

This could mean that AFTER we are raptured (what a glorious day!!!) we would have a seven day journey during which we would be sightseeing our solar system and learning so many hidden things with our Lord Jesus.

I think this journey will begin ON THE FIRST DAY OF UNLEAVENED BREAD (Nisan 15) and end in our final stop (Heaven) ON THE SEVENTH DAY OF UNLEAVENED BREAD (Nisan 21). But we should be ready on the day of the Rapture itself, which might NOT be on Nisan 21, but on Nisan 15!!!!!

Why would God tell us about his people stopping in Succoth, Etham, Pihahiroth, Migdol, and so many places (in Numbers 33)? I think this means that the journey might have many stops. No that it is necessary, because God could certainly take us in a "nonstop flight" to wherever He wanted us to be. But I think this journey will have many stops (lasting 7 days) because this might be His plan, for some reason that we don't know now. For example, He might want to show us all the universe story in a spectacular sightseeing while leading us to Heaven. This would be a first class journey.

What do you thing of Nisan 15?

Please note that for the Jewish all seven days of Unleavened Bread are HOLY. I wonder if these seven days would be the lenght of our journey to Heaven! From departure until arrival!

If someday I decided to visit you personally in California, on day X, I would certainly not leave my hometown in South America on that same day, because I would have to allow some time for the air travel. So I think the first Rapture date won't be ON THE DAY we enter Heaven (arrivel date), but on the FIRST DAY of our holy journey (departure date)! I'm so excited!

Would that interpretation be possible in your view?

HAPPY EASTER!!!!! Agape

My reply

> > It came to my mind that the 7th day of Unleavened Bread would be the day we would be entering Heaven itself (arrival date), not departing from here.

We should be ready just in case, but the trip can be very fast. Jesus took those waiting in Paradise to Heaven and came back on Resurrection Day. In the morning, he could not be touched because he had not yet ascended to the Father. Later, he could be touched.

John 20:17 says, "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God." Eph 4:8-10 says, "Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens [atmospheric], that he might fill all things.)"

Nu. 33:2-15 says, "Moses wrote their goings out according to their journeys by the commandment of the LORD: and these are their journeys according to their goings out. And they departed from Rameses in the FIRST MONTH, on the FIFTEENTH DAY of the first month; on the morrow after the passover (i.e., on Nisan 15, that later became the Feast of Unleavened Bread) the children of Israel went out with an high hand in the sight of all the Egyptians....And the children of Israel removed from Rameses, and pitched in Succoth. And they departed from Succoth, and pitched in Etham, which is in the edge of the wilderness. And they removed from Etham, and turned again unto Pihahiroth, which is before Baalzephon: and they pitched before Migdol. And they departed from before Pihahiroth, and passed through the midst of the sea into the wilderness, and went three days' journey in the wilderness of Etham, and pitched in Marah. And they removed from Marah, and came unto Elim: and in Elim were twelve fountains of water, and threescore and ten palm trees; and they pitched there. And they removed from Elim, and encamped by the Red sea. And they removed from the Red sea, and encamped in the wilderness of Sin. And they took their journey out of the wilderness of Sin, and encamped in Dophkah. And they departed from Dophkah, and encamped in Alush. And they removed from Alush, and encamped at Rephidim, where was no water for the people to drink. And they departed from Rephidim, and pitched in the wilderness of Sinai."

Mt. Sinai represented Heaven, but it didn't take Jesus that long to travel to Heaven, and back, on Resurrection Day. The Israelites had to travel slowly or the animals would have died. Agape

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