Pro and Con 1411
Incoming e-mail, Re: Monday
I don't understand how Pentecost can be a Monday or any other day of the week different from Sunday.
Lev 23 is the most concise instruction about this counting and is says:
15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete:
16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD.
In my humble view, it clearly says that the 50th day is the morrow after the seventh sabbath. This is a Sunday. The Bible has no contradictions. Deut 16:9 just says that the first day is the day that the corn is sickled. It isn't as precise as Lev 23:15-16. Why should we go by Deut 16:9 (less clear and even vague for us nowadays, because we don't understand the detailed agricultural procedures of that ancient time) and not consider Lev 23:15-16 that is unequivocal?
Day # 1 is the first Sunday after the weekly Sabbath that follows Passover. Day # 50 is Day of Pentecost, also a Sunday, because the first day of the Omer (a Sunday) is Day # 1, not Day Zero, therefore Day # 50 has to be the same day of the week than the first day of the Omer.
Why should we consider only the weekly sabbaths and not the annual sabbaths in this counting? Because if the annual Sabbaths were to be counted, the 50 days would include more than 7 sabbaths, and the passage clearly states that there are exactly seven sabbaths in those 50 days, therefore implying that only the weekly sabbaths are to be considered as sabbaths in this counting (including the eve of the first day of the Omer), not the annual sabbaths in any circumstance. If the annual Sabbaths were to be counted, then the 50 days would include at least 8 Sabbaths, not 7.
The present method was adopted in 70 A.D. by the Pharisees so that NO ONE could see any connection between the Day of Firstfruits (first Day of the Omer) and the Day of Resurrection which was Sunday and fail to recognize Jesus as the promised and legitimate Messiah. From then on the first Day of the Omer began to fall on any day of the week, always on Nisan 16, because they considered the first day of Unleavened Bread (annual Sabbath which the Jews nowadays call Passover) as "the sabbath" in verse 15.
41 years after the last day of the Six Day War (in the Jewish Calendar, Sivan 2 5727) will be complete on June 5, 2008. Coincidentally, this very same day (June 5, 2008) will be the 40th Day of the Omer if the morrow after the first weekly sabbath after Passover is considered as Day 1 (inclusive reckoning) of the 50 days. This method of counting is the ancient hebrew understanding and all ancient Christians assemblies' understanding according to "Festival and Sacred Days of Yahweh, by Qadesh La Yahweh Press, 1998", p 252-254 and 258. (http://www.bible.ca/7-sunday-pentecost.htm)
This understanding is still used by the Karaites Jews,
"June 5, 2008: Today is the ... 40th day of the counting of fifty days from the day of the waving of the Omer on the morrow after the Sabbath."
Ten days later comes Pentecost.
"June 15, 2008: Today is the 50th day of the counting from the day of the waving of the Omer on the morrow after the Sabbath. Today is the morrow of the seven Sabbath, the Feast of Weeks."
If the Lord had wanted Pentecost to be a fixed date, He would have specified (for example, "Sivan 6") like He did for many other fixed dates, clearly stating "Nisan 14", "Nisan 15" or "Tishri 1" etc. Leviticus 23 is written in a way that clearly shows us that the the Lord did not intend Pentecost to be a fixed date, but a movable feast and always on a Sunday.
Of course I don't have the intention of writing endless messages about this subject, and I respect that you have a different interpretation. I just wanted to repeat my explanation to make sure that I made my point clear, because I might not have been didactic enough in my previous messages. But of course I respect that you prefer to have a different opinion and won't write any more about that.
I really think we should pay more attention to June 5 and June 15. Why would the Lord say "a generation" if more than 41 years would pass after the day that the fig tree grew leaves? Regardless of which method of counting Pentecost we have, I understand this to be a "maximum alert" time, and considering that the 40th day of the Omer by the Karaite counting (equivalent to Ascension Day) is the VERY SAME DAY of the 41st year anniversary of the last day of Six Day War, I think we shouldn't disconsider June 5 and June 15 this year.
Why not consider both methods of counting (for Ascension and Pentecost), in the ancient Hebrew method as well as the modern Jewish calendar, so as not to be distracted if the other method is correct and something important happens? Why be taken by surprise? I think we should consider both methods! Kindest regards
As you know, all Scripture is God breathed. It is 100% correct in its original editions, and only has a few translation errors. It is remarkable how well it has been preserved for us. What seems like two different views actually are one. We have to figure out how two things can both be true. Therein lies the answer we are seeking.
The word shabba^th, according to Brown-Driver Briggs, can mean a sabbath (i.e., Saturday), the Day of Atonement, the Sabbatic Year, or a week.
De. 16:6-10 says, "But at the place (eventually at the Temple in Jerusalem) which the LORD thy God shall choose to place his name in, there thou shalt sacrifice (kill) the passover (lamb) at even, at the going down of the sun (i.e., the lambs were killed at the Temple between 3 and 6 PM on Nisan 13, roasted and eaten between 6 PM and midnight on Nisan 14, Passover), at the season (spring) that thou camest forth out of Egypt. And thou shalt roast and eat it (before midnight) in the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: and thou shalt turn in the morning, and go unto thy tents. Six days thou shalt eat unleavened bread (Nisan 15-21): and on the seventh day shall be a solemn assembly to the LORD thy God: thou shalt do no work therein. Seven weeks shalt thou number unto thee: begin to number the seven weeks FROM such time as thou BEGINNEST to put the sickle to the corn (i.e., on Firstfruits, Nisan 16, not always Sunday). And thou shalt keep the feast of weeks (i.e., Pentecost, 50 days later) unto the LORD thy God with a tribute of a freewill offering of thine hand, which thou shalt give unto the LORD thy God, according as the LORD thy God hath blessed thee".
The season of the feasts starts with Nisan 14, Passover. That date is locked in, and it isn't always on Saturday. If it fell on Saturday, Nisan 15 could not also be a Saturday. Neither could Firstfruits be a Sabbath. They are 3 consecutive days. Lev 23:4-17 says, "These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations (annual sabbaths, as the Day of Atonement is called a 'sabbath' in Lev 23:32; it isn't always Saturday, and isn't one week from the Feast of Trumpets, which is also a sabbath, or one week from Tabernacles, which is also a sabbath), which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. In the FOURTEENTH DAY of the first month at even (i.e., 6 PM on Nisan 13) is the LORD'S passover (a sabbath). And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread (a sabbath) unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath (Feast of Unleavened Bread, which isn't always on Saturday) the priest shall wave it. And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf (i.e., on Firstfruits, a sabbath) an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the LORD. And the meat offering thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the LORD for a sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin. And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto your God (i.e., on Firstfruits): it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings. And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath (i.e., after the Feast of Unleavened Bread), FROM the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering (i.e., FROM Firstfruits); seven sabbaths (seven 7-day WEEKS, 49 days) shall be complete: Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath (WEEK) shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD. Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals: they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the FIRSTFRUITS unto the LORD."
James 1:18 says, "Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of FIRSTFRUITS of his creatures."
In 30 AD, Nisan 13, preparation of the Passover, Crucifixion Day, was Thursday, April 6. Nisan 14, Passover, was on Friday, April 7. The Feast of Unleavened Bread was Nisan 15, Saturday, April 8. The Feast of Firstfruits was Sunday, April 9, Resurrection Day. The day to count "FROM" is Firstfruits. It happened to be Sunday that year. The end of the first week was the next Sunday. The end of the 2nd week was the next Sunday, etc. The 49th day was Sunday, Sivan 6. Therefore, I think the Pentecost sabbath was Monday, Sivan 7, 3790 (May 29, 30 AD)....
This year, I think the Sivan 7, 5768, Pentecost sabbath will be Tuesday, June 10, 2008, but I will be watching from June 8 to 15, just in case I got it wrong. I will also be watching on Ascension Day, May 31.
Why do I pay any attention to our son and daughter's birthdays? My son was born on Crucifixion Day, April 6. I tried to bring on labor by digging post holes and building a fence around our front yard on Ed's birthday the week before, but it didn't work. The pains I had went away. Dave was 9 lb. 4 oz, but he wasn't to be born until it was April 6. We had planned to name a boy Brian, but he didn't look like a Brian. We hadn't so much as mentioned the name David, but it just flew into my head at the time. I looked at Ed and said, "How about David?" He agreed, and David it was. Later, I found out that Jesus, the son of David, was crucified on April 6. That's enough to make me wonder about the birthdays.
> > I really think we should pay more attention to June 5 and June 15. Why would the Lord say "a generation" if more than 41 years would pass after the day that the fig tree grew leaves?
There are two measures of a generation, 40 years and 48.33 years (Mt. 1:17). The Six-Day War ended on June 10, 1967. The beginning of the 40th year from then would be June 10, 2007. The end of the 40th year could be June 10, 2008 (Sivan 7, 5768), Pentecost. The 2nd Rapture could be Tishri 1 in 2015 (1967 + 48 = 2015). We should know soon. Agape
Note: When we think of the First Trump Rapture, Pentecost has something else going for it. The first trump of God sounded at Mt. Sinai on Pentecost.
Sunday Pentecost, 2008, June 7
Pentecost always occurs on a Sunday, 50 days from the Hebrew's Feast of First Fruits.
And, the Feast of First Fruits is always on the Sunday following The Passover.
And, the Sunday following The Passover is when Christ Jesus was resurrected.
And, The Passover is when Christ Jesus was crucified....
the TRUE, Biblical Pentecost (Shavu'ot) is 50 days from the first Sunday that follows (after) The Passover.
If Easter was the authentic Resurrection day, Easter would always follow The Passover....
In The Days Of Christ Jesus
Years CE Easter Date Passover Date...True Pentecost
30 April 9 April 7 June 7
April 7 is the correct date for Passover (in 30 AD). Jesus was crucified on April 6, the preparation of the Passover.
This year, this writer counts from Nisan 15, because it is Sunday. However, Nisan 15 is the Feast of Unleavened Bread. The Resurrection was on Nisan 16, the Feast of Firstfruits. Counting 50 days from the next Sunday, Nisan 22, 5768, would put Pentecost on Monday, Sivan 13, 5768 (June 16, 2008). That seems to be the latest it could be this year.
The eastern Orthodox Church figured Easter this year as being Sunday, Nisan 22, so 50 days from then will be Monday, Sivan 13 (June 16, 2008).
On how to count the 50 days to Pentecost, Wikipedia
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentecost) says, "a debate ignited between Sadducees and Pharisees regarding this procedure. The debate was due to the interpretation of the words "the morrow after the sabbath". The Sadducees considered the sabbath as the usual weekly day and, therefore, calculated the date of Pentecost as the fiftieth day from the Sunday after passover, a formula used today by the Christian Church. The Pharisees decoded the word "sabbath" from Leviticus 23:15 as referring to the first day of "the feast of unleavened bread", which was, at that time, 15 Nisan. Therefore, they numbered fifty days from 16 Nisan, no matter what day of the week it was. Their formula is currently used in the practice of Judaism".
Fifty days from Nisan 16 (Monday, April 21, 2008) would be Sivan 7 (Tuesday, June 10, 2008). I figure June 10 will be Pentecost.
Pastor Riley figured it June 8, so we should be sure we are ready by that time. He said, "...the Lord Jesus Christ, "the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world," John 1:29, was sacrificed on Passover in 30 A.D.
"Three days and three nights after Christ was crucified, just AS THE 17TH DAY OF ABIB ENDED AND THE 18TH DAY BEGAN, "on the morrow after the sabbath" following the Passover, the Lord Jesus Christ came forth from the tomb, triumphant over death, hell, and the grave, Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:1-6; Luke 24:1-7; John 20. Glory to God! Hallelujah! Praise the Lord!"...Now here is where the events really get interesting. For on that same first day of the week, "the morrow after the sabbath," the Scriptures state, "many bodies of the saints which slept arose, And came out of the graves after His resurrection"...
Continuing, Pastor Riley said, "Folks, the Day of Pentecost this year falls June 8th, however it actually begins at sundown on June 7th in Israel. What are the significance of these dates?
"On June 7, 1967 the Holy Temple Mount and the city of Jerusalem were returned to their rightful owners during the Six Day War. That is the "date" when the tender branch of the fig tree put forth leaves, Matthew 24:32. The Lord Himself said, "So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors," Matthew 24:33. June 7, 1967 is the "date" when the forty year "generation" began, Matthew 24:34. Therefore on June 7, 2007 the fortieth year arrived. However, Israel is still in the 40th year until June 7, 2008. The 41st year will begin on June 8, 2008. What day is that? It is the Day of Pentecost."
June 8, 2008 is Sunday, Sivan 5, 5768. Thus, for us, the time to stay ready and watch runs from June 8 to 16. I think June 10 (Sivan 7) is Pentecost, but will be watching near that time in case I figured it wrong.
Incoming e-mail, Re: Monday
Thanks much for your detailed explanation and patience. Of course I will be paying fullest attention to all possible dates.
I really think that some time before (minutes or hours) the Rapture, we will notice the Bridegroomís cry. I think that this will be the moment of the Resurrection of the dead in Christ, that Paul made clear that would precede the moment of the Rapture.
I think that the Resurrection will be a super powerful event (glory to God) and the graves will literally open with the resurrected saints coming out from them, walking (with or without earth tremors) . That day, we will know. Then, both groups (the resurrected saints who will walk in the cities and interact with us) and the saints who are alive and are qualified to be the Bride will be taken together to Heaven. (the two loaves of bread with leaven, presented on Pentecost). Thatís why I donít think the Rapture could be on Ascension day anymore. I think it must be on Pentecost because of the prophetic significance of the lifting and waving of the two loaves of bread to Lord, like Pastor Riley explained so well...
Letís wait and see, and watch and pray. I believe with all my heart and mind think that the time is approaching. Most of the people will be taken by total surprise. I think itís going to be this year, 2008. I donít think it will be after June 10th 2008. I know there is another generation of 48.33 years, but that points to the second Rapture, Day of Trumpets in 2015. The other generation length is about 40 years, which is still in time before 41 years are completed. Pentecost this year is going to be June 9 or 8, depending on the view (Monday or Sunday). The 41st year will be completed on June 10th. How could the Lord be more clear? We have a unique date in time.
What a JOY debating if itís going to be on a Sunday or the next day (following Monday)Ö It shouldnít make any difference for us. Weíve waited for so many years! Both days are fine! How delightful to expect that Day so soon!
What I sincerely think is that we might not know the precise day and hour (I know this verb was in the past in scriptures. What I mean now is that we arenít sure about it being Monday, Sunday, after sunset, before sunset, which day in the Gregorian calendar, which day in each time zone). By this view, itís really difficult to know the precise day and hour. But my point is: I think that scriptures allow us to easily know the YEAR and the MONTH (which I think is June 2008 because of the completion of 41 years on June 10th after the last day of the Six Day War, when Israel grew leaves, and a generation wouldnít pass), and also that itís going to be Spring time (in the Northern Hemisphere). I think that piece of information (year, month and season of the year) are more than enough for us to trim our lamps and get ready for our Bridegroom. What a wonderful Lord we have.
Kindest regards and sincere thanks for all you patience and interest in helping and being a BLESSING to your readers. I hope to see you soon in GLORY. Warmest greetings from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.
...On that web site you mentioned, it said,
> > Q. Why is Pentecost on June 12 in 2005, instead of on June 19? The latter date appears to be seven weeks from the Days of Unleavened Bread, and the earlier date seems to be a week too early.
> > A. The instruction for counting Pentecost is found in Leviticus 23:15-16. It tells us to count 50 days from the day after the Sabbath (the Sunday) that falls during the Feast of Unleavened Bread.
That isn't all the information verse 15 gives us. It says, "And ye shall count unto you FROM THE MORROW after the sabbath, FROM THE DAY THAT YE BROUGHT THE SHEAF OF THE WAVE OFFERING." The wave sheaf offering that starts the countdown to the wave offering of Pentecost is on the Feast of Firstfruits. Firstfruits is on the morrow after the Feast of Unleavened Bread. All the feasts are sabbaths, no matter which day of the week they fall on.
Lev 23:16 says, "Even unto the MORROW (the 50th day) after the seventh sabbath (7TH WEEK, i.e., the morrow after 49 days) shall ye number FIFTY DAYS; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD."
Lev 23:24 says, "In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a SABBATH (not necessarily Saturday), a memorial of blowing of TRUMPETS (ON TISHRI 1), an holy convocation."
Lev 23:27 says, "Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a Day of Atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you".
Lev 23:31,32 says, "Ye shall do no manner of work: it (the Day of Atonement) shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings. It (THE DAY OF ATONEMENT, ON TISHRI 10, MORE THAN 7 DAYS AFTER TRUMPETS) SHALL BE UNTO YOU A SABBATH of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: IN THE NINTH DAY OF THE MONTH AT EVEN, FROM EVEN UNTO EVEN, SHALL YE CELEBRATE YOUR SABBATH."
> > Normally, the task of counting is straightforward. However, when the Days of Unleavened Bread begin on the first day of the week and end on the weekly Sabbath, the Sabbath and the day after it do not both fall during the festival. There are conceivably two ways to count Pentecost in this circumstanceóbegin counting from the first Holy Day, or, begin counting from the day after the last Holy Day.
To me, there is only one way to count it. Lev. 23:15 says, "ye shall count unto you FROM THE MORROW after the sabbath (i.e., FROM FIRSTFRUITS), FROM THE DAY THAT YE BROUGHT THE SHEAF OF THE WAVE OFFERING." To me, there is no way around that.
> > Which way is correct? Thankfully, there is a scriptural example that answers this question. In the year described in Joshua 5, the Unleavened Bread festival began on the first day of the week, just as it does in 2005. In verses 11 and 12, we find that the Israelites ate of the spring harvest on the day after the Passover, something they could not do until the wave-sheaf offering had been made (Leviticus 23:9-14).
Joshua 5:10-12, the Israelites ate the "OLD CORN OF THE LAND" (i.e., stored grain from the previous year's crop) on Nisan 15, the Feast of Unleavened Bread, not newly harvested Abib barley that they would have had to winnow. That could not be eaten until after Firstfruits on Nisan 16.
Jos 5:10-12 says, "And the children of Israel encamped in Gilgal, and kept the passover on the fourteenth day of the month at even in the plains of Jericho. And THEY DID EAT OF THE OLD CORN OF THE LAND ON THE MORROW(FEAST OF UNLEAVENED BREAD, NISAN 15) AFTER THE PASSOVER (NISAN 14), unleavened cakes, and parched corn in the selfsame day. And the manna ceased on the morrow (FIRSTFRUITS, Nisan 16) after they had eaten of the old corn of the land; neither had the children of Israel manna any more; but they did eat of the fruit of the land of Canaan that year." They could then eat of the new crop, because it was after Firstfruits.
> > The wave sheaf, an offering taken from the spring crop before harvesting was allowed to begin, was offered on the same day from which Pentecost was to be counted (Leviticus 23:15).
Yes. Pentecost was to be counted from Firstfruits, not from the Feast of Unleavened Bread.
> > The only way for the scene described in Joshua 5:11-12 to take place was that the wave sheaf was offered on the first Holy Day of Unleavened Bread, allowing the Israelites to begin eating the spring crop immediately. It also meant that Pentecost fell seven weeks from that day.
Not to me. They ate the old crop on the Feast of Unleavened Bread, and waved the sheaf of Abib barley on the next day, Firstfruits. Pentecost was counted from the day they waved the sheaf before the Lord.
> > This example shows us how to calculate Pentecost in a year when the Feast of Unleavened Bread begins on the first day of the week and ends on the weekly Sabbath, as it does in 2005...That is why we know that Pentecost falls on June 12 in 2005.
> > This is not a new teaching, but continues the teaching of the Church for the last three decades, which was confirmed by a thorough study commissioned by the Council of Elders that resulted in the study paper, "Pentecost and Its Observance." This paper was sent to all elders in September 1997
To me, what they have been teaching for all those years is misleading. In Joshua 5:10-12, the Israelites ate the "OLD CORN OF THE LAND" (i.e., stored grain from the previous year's crop) on Nisan 15, the Feast of Unleavened Bread, not newly harvested Abib barley that they would have had to winnow. That could not be eaten until after Firstfruits on Nisan 16. There is nothing I know of in the Bible that would indicate that they ever kept Firstfruits on the Feast of Unleavened Bread. It was the next day.
> > This year (2005) there is an additional controversy concerning the date for Pentecost. Some have suggested that the United Church of God will be keeping the festival a week too early by beginning the count on the wrong day.
> > Passover for this year falls on the Sabbath, April 23, and is observed Friday evening, April 22. The First Day of Unleavened Bread will be observed on Sunday, April 24. Pentecost will be observed 50 days later on Sunday, June 12.
> > In order to arrive at the date of June 12, YOU MUST BEGIN THE 50-DAY COUNT ON THE FIRST SUNDAY AFTER PASSOVER, WHICH WILL ALSO BE THE FIRST DAY OF UNLEAVENED BREAD. Some question whether this is the proper method for counting the 50 days. It has been suggested by some that we should wait until the following Sunday to begin the count. THIS WOULD PLACE THE WAVE SHEAF COMPLETELY OUTSIDE THE DAYS OF UNLEAVENED BREAD, and it would produce a June 19 Pentecost instead of the June 12 date
What throws them off is their assumption that the 50-day countdown to Pentecost has to start on a Sunday, even if it that Sunday is the Feast of Unleavened Bread. I don't know of any such stipulation.
Normally, Passover is Nisan 14, Unleavened Bread is Nisan 15. Firstfruits, when the Abib barley sheaf is waved, is Nisan 16. The 7 days of Unleavened Bread run Nisan 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, and 21....
In the Old Testament, both feasts and the 7th day Sabbath are called SABBATHS (shabba^th, a sabbath, a day of atonement, a sabbath year, WEEK, or produce in a sabbath year; [Brown-Driver-Briggs], from shabath, to repose, rest; [Strong's], AND CONVOCATIONS, (miqra, something called out, that is, a public meeting, the act, the persons, or the place; also a rehearsal: - assembly, calling, convocation, reading; ye shall do no work therein: it is THE SABBATH of the LORD in all your dwellings [Strong's]).
In the New Testament, Col 2:16,17 says, "Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday (heorteĮ, festival, feast, holyday), or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days (sabbaton, of Hebrew origin; the Sabbath, that is, Shabbath, or day of weekly repose from secular avocations; also the observance or institution itself; by extension a se'nnight, that is, the interval between two Sabbaths...sabbath day, WEEK [Strong's]) (1, the seventh day of each week which was a sacred festival on which the Israelites were required to abstain from all work; 1a, the institution of the sabbath, the law for keeping holy every seventh day of the week; 1b, a single sabbath, sabbath day; 2 SEVEN DAYS, A WEEK [Thayer]), Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ."
Josephus shows that Firstfruits was kept on Nisan 16. He said, "The feast of unleavened bread succeeds that of the Passover, and falls on the fifteenth day of the month, and continues seven days...But ON THE SECOND DAY OF UNLEAVENED BREAD, WHICH IS THE SIXTEENTH DAY OF THE MONTH, THEY FIRST PARTAKE OF THE FRUITS OF THE EARTH, for before that day they do not touch them" (Ant. III. X. 5).
To me, the 50-day countdown to Pentecost started on the morrow after the firstfruits were waved before the Lord, i.e., on Nisan 17.
Lev. 23:4-16 (LXX) says, "These are the feasts unto the Lord, holy convocations, which ye shall call in their seasons. In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month, between the evenings times is the Lord's passover. And on the fifteenth day of this month is the feast of unleavened bread to the Lord; seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread....When ye shall enter into the land which I gave you, and reap the harvest of it, then shall ye bring a sheaf, the first fruits of your harvest, to the priest; and he shall lift up the sheaf before the Lord, to be accepted for you. On the morrow (i.e., Nisan 16) of the first day (Nisan 15) the priest shall lift it up....And ye shall number to yourselves from the day after (which will be Nisan 17) the sabbath (Nisan 16, Firstfruits), from the day on which ye shall offer the sheaf of the heave-offering (i.e., from Firstfruits, Nisan 16), seven full weels: until the morrow after the last week ye shall number fifty days, and shall bring a new meat-offering to the Lord" (i.e., on Pentecost).
Thus, I count Nisan 17 as day number one. This year, Nisan 16 is on Monday, so from that Monday to the next Monday is one week. The 7th Monday is Sivan 6. That is the 49th day of the omer. I figure Pentecost will be Tuesday, Sivan 7, June 10, 2008. This is running time, not figured inclusively.
A block of time should be figured inclusively. For instance, I think the 2300 days for the shortened Tribulation (Dan. 8:13,14) start on Pentecost, 2009. That 2300 days is a block of time and has to be figured inclusively.
However, in case I figure wrong, I will be watching for the Rapture from Saturday, May 31, 2008, Ascension Day, onward until it happens, whenever it is. Also, I will not be offended if you disagree with me. Each person should get as much information on it as possible, then make up their own mind.
> > About the inclusive reckoning for the counting of 50 days (taking Sunday as Day One, not Day Zero), let me point out that that would follow the same criterium of John 20:26. In that passage, they say "eight days from that day". They are referring to another Sunday from the referente day (Sunday). Today we would simply say "seven days from now", because the first day in this counting counts as day one, not day zero."
It doesn't say the eighth day is Sunday, and they count a week, which is 7 days of running time, as being Sunday to Sunday, or Wednesday to Wednesday, etc. If it is a week FROM Wednesday, that first Wednesday is not counted again, since it was the 7th day of the previous week. Agape
Incoming e-mail, Re: Monday
I read all your text with attention and I concluded that the reason for our different interpretations is that you read "Sabbath" in Lev 23 as the first day of the festival of Unleavened Bread (Nisan 15, a locked date). I read it as the weekly Sabbath (a floating date) within the week of Unleavend Bread.
"The English word 'Sabbath' is translated from the Hebrew word 'shabbat', which specifically refers to the seventh day of the week. This is very important to understand, because nowhere in the scriptures is an annual festival ever referred to by the word 'shabbat' by itself, because the weekly Sabbath and the annual festivals are distinctly different types of celebrations.
With the knowledge of the difference in vocabulary between the weekly Sabbath and the annual festivals, there can be no confusion as to which day is being spoken of as the day from which to calculate Pentecost. However, the Pharisees interpreted the word 'shabbat' in Leviticus 23:11 as referring to the first day of Unleavened Bread."
Only if Passover itself falls on a Saturday, then the first day of Unleavened Bread (in this case, a Sunday) coincides with the day of the lift offering (firstfruits). That's what happened in the specific year Jesus died.
That year, Passover was Nisan 14 (Friday), the first day of Unleavened Bread was Nisan 15 (a weekly Sabbath) and the first Sunday after Passover, within the week of Unleavened Bread, was Nisan 16. So, in that specific year, the Feast of Weeks by inclusive reckoning (50 days taking Nisan 16, Sunday, as Day # 1 of the counting of the Omer) was Sivan 6th. But that was only valid for that year, as the day of the lift offering floats if the "sabbath" of Lev 23 only refers to the weekly Sabbath and not to the Festival Sabbath.
The original language of verse 11 clearly defines the day of the Wave Sheaf offering as the day after the weekly Sabbath.
The original language is very specific and clearly defines the day which is to be used to begin the counting process as the weekly Sabbath.
If God had intended to refer to the first day of Unleavened Bread in any of above scriptures, he would not have used the word 'shabbat', which can only refer to the weekly Sabbath; he would have used the word 'shabbaton'. Nowhere in scripture are the first or the last day of Unleavened Bread called a 'shabbat' or a 'shabbaton'; they are always referred to as feast days or sacred assemblies (holy convocations).
Now there is something I had never read before in all my studies about this subject and I would love to share that with you. The source is http://www.bibleresearch.org/observancebook5/b5w56.html . I found this to be an excellent piece of text.
The topic called "The Problem" is intriguing. I thought about copying and pasting it it here but I prefer to leave there for you to check it if you like. It's extremely interesting! (about God not allowing the most important prophetic event of all time to occur on the wrong day, because the Pharisees and the Sadducees had different interpretations!)
About the inclusive reckoning for the counting of 50 days (taking Sunday as Day One, not Day Zero), let me point out that that would follow the same criterium of John 20:26. In that passage, they say "eight days from that day". They are referring to another Sunday from the referente day (Sunday). Today we would simply say "seven days from now", because the first day in this counting counts as day one, not day zero.
In my humble opinion, that would also apply to the counting of the 50 days. The first day is Day 1, not Day zero. I think Pentecost is a Sunday, the Lord's Day!
Be it Sunday (June 8) or Monday (June 8), Glory to God! What matters most is that it's probably going to be this year!
Thank you so much for your time and patience. Please apologize me if I have gone too far in this discussion.
If you don't agree, that's perfectly okay. We can debate that in Heaven after the date that God chooses! I hope that is Sunday not for me to be right, but for that GLORIOUS day to be SOONER!!!!!! Agape
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