Pro and Con 1414

Posted 5-24-08



two tornadoes hit 5 miles from us, at Moreno Valley, CA, on May 22, 2008. Black at first, they turned golden when they picked up enough sand.

Here are somes videos of the dueling tornadoes.


Both tornados touched down about five miles due east of us, near Van Buren and the 215 Fwy by March Reserve Air Force Base. The tornado shoved nine RR cars, 32 tons each, and a big-rig truck over on their sides. Six inches of hail hit the 215, yet we only had rain and a constant roar punctuated by thunder here in Orange Crest, Riverside.

At first, I wondered if the furnace was on. It seemed awfully loud. I got up and checked. It was not on. I wondered if there were airplanes from March Air Force Base going over in formation, as in the recent airshow. No. The roar did not abate at all for a long time. We didn't know what it was until we started to see pictures of the tornado on the news.

Afterward, Ed told me he had been in Kingsport, TN, when a tornado took out houses and lives on Cherry Hill, where his grandmother lived, when he was about 8. What he has remembered ever since is that constant roar.

Dave was in Wisconsin once when a tornado struck. When they got out of the basement to go see what happened, a red barn was nowhere to be seen. It was just gone. Trees in a forest were all down and stripped of leaves. No greenery was seen for miles. Buildings were like piles of matchsticks.

However, he slept through this one. We were lucky it wasn't that bad. The truck driver got cut on his head and is in the hospital, but no one else seems to have been hurt. We were sitting ducks, totally unprepared. We get earthquakes every once in awhile, but "never" tornadoes, ha ha, and no one has a basement to hide in.

I keep wondering, about the 10 things, 9 RR freight cars and a big-rig truck, overturned. Could that 10 relate to a June 10 Rapture?

Thinking it was an electrical storm, I turned off our computers and prayed for our computers, and us. Oh! thank you Lord for protecting us, and our computers, in Jesus' name, Amen.

Bakersfield, CA, has lots of toads and frogs like China. Hope we don't have a huge earthquake here in southern California in 30 days, as in China. I hope we are gone in the Rapture before anything worse happens.

An amazing thing happened in Tokyo. A lost parrot named Yosuke told vet, "I'm Mr. Yosuke Nakamura," and added his correct home address

Incoming e-mail, Re: Rosh ha Shana and the Rapture

Several days ago I had been going to J.R. Church's website, Prophecy in the News, when I accidentally got prophecy news from the UK. Many articles on his website. One about the "XMark" that is ready to be used. The scientist who came up with it in 2004 knew nothing about the Bible, prophecy, or the Mark in the Bible. It is the size of a grain of rice, per trial and error this scientist came up with the two best sites for the implant is the right hand and the forehand. He has a picture of where it is on the right hand. It has lithium in it which when contacted with the skin causes sores on the person. He says it is so simple an implant that those who do tattoos and vets can do it easily. I found this very interesting. I tried to go to his website just now but he is working on it and I went today to where he says the old site was and the new site will be I found other articles on his website of interest as well. Are you familiar with this? Thanks

You know Rosh ha Shana (aka The Feasts of Trumpets, aka The Jewish New Year) is known to the Jews as the day no one knows. I am sure you know this. About 20 years ago the Lord spoke to me to study Hebrew things. The alphabet, what each letter means is amazing. I have not been able to study as I had wanted as I have been in the hospital well over 100 times and lost my voice so that I could not learn to speak Hebrew. I know very little but I long to learn. I check your website often.

What do you think about Rosh ha Shana and the Rapture (the day no one knows, Feast of Trumpets, Jewish New Year)? Thanks

My reply

That is the first time I have been to the web site you mentioned.

> > What do you think about Rosh ha Shana and the Rapture (the day no one knows, Feast of Trumpets, Jewish New Year)?

Since I am convinced that the 2nd Rapture, the Pre-Wrath Rapture, will be on the Feast of Trumpets, I doubt that the 1st Rapture, the Pre-Trib Rapture will be on Trumpets. That day of the Pre-Wrath Rapture will also be the Day of the Lord and the Day of God's Wrath. After the 2nd Rapture, seven trumpets will sound and bring judgment to all the unbelievers left on Earth. On that day, all that belong to God will be in Heaven getting their rewards while the wrath of God falls on Earth. Vengeance belongs to God.

Joel 1:15 and 2:1,2 tells us about that day. It says, "Alas for the day! for the DAY OF THE LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.... Blow ye the TRUMPET in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the DAY OF THE LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong (Gog's army, see Eze. 38); there hath not been ever the like (not before the Tribulation, or at its beginning, as some say), neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations."

Rev. 11:15-19 says of that day, "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders (the 12 patriarchs and the 12 apostles, part of the Pre-Trib Rapture of Rev. 4:1, seen in Heaven in 4:4), which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come (the Second Advent is 7 months future); because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and THY WRATH IS COME, AND THE TIME OF THE DEAD, THAT THEY SHOULD BE JUDGED, AND THAT THOU SHOULDEST GIVE REWARD UNTO THY SERVANTS the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."

The two stone tablets in the Ark seem to represent the two asteroids of Rev. 8:8-11 that will destroy the works of Satan and his army. Eze. 38:18-20 tells us that there will be a worldwide earthquake that day. All cities will be in shambles for every wall will fall.

Eze 38:18-23 says, "And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that MY FURY SHALL COME UP IN MY FACE. For in my jealousy and IN THE FIRE OF MY WRATH have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence (paniym, face; they see the Sign of the Son of Man in the sky), and the mountains (asteroids) shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and every wall shall fall to the ground. And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother. And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain (a tsunami, when the first asteroid hits the Mediterranean Sea), and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the EYES of many nations, and they shall know that I am the LORD."

Of that day, Rev 16:18-21 says, "And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city (Jerusalem) was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent (100 lbs): and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great."

The Second Advent will be 7 months after the Day of God's Wrath. Eze. 39:12,13 says, "And SEVEN MONTHS shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified (i.e., at the Second Advent), saith the Lord GOD."

Ruth is a type of the Bride of Christ. Ruth 1:22 says, "So Naomi returned, and Ruth the Moabitess, her daughter in law, with her, which returned out of the country of Moab: and they came to Bethlehem near Firstfruits." Ruth 1:22 says, "So Naomi returned, and Ruth the Moabitess, her daughter in law, with her, which returned out of the country of Moab: and they came to Bethlehem in the beginning of barley harvest." The first of the barley harvest was waved on the Feast of Firstfruits, Nisan 16.

That's the first month of the Sacred Calendar. It is in the spring. Jesus was resurrected on Firstfruits. After his resurrection, there were others that came out of their graves and were seen in Jerusalem. Jesus took all of the contents of Paradise to Heaven that day and returned. Before he went to Heaven, he could not be touched. After he came back, he could be touched.

Ruth 2:23 says, "So she (Ruth) kept fast by the maidens of Boaz (the kinsman redeemer) to glean unto THE END OF BARLEY HARVEST AND OF WHEAT HARVEST". When was the end of barley harvest and the beginning of wheat harvest? Pentecost.

Boaz was winnowing barley the night Ruth lay at his feet. He sent 6 measures of barley home with Ruth. Therefore, I think the Rapture will be in the spring.

Their were 3 harvest festivals, when all males were to go up to Jerusalem, Unleavened Bread, Pentecost and Tabernacles. Jesus fulfilled Unleavened Bread and took the OT saints to Heaven on Firstfruits, the beginning of the barley harvest. We are the next group to be taken to Heaven.

Pentecost makes the most sense. Jesus' ascension day wasn't a feast day or a festival. Tabernacles is when all the spring and summer harvests are in.

Rev. 5:8-11 mentions the elders and the "SAINTS (in Heaven before the Tribulation). AND THEY SUNG A NEW SONG, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth. And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the ELDERS".

At the 2nd Rapture, only the 144,000 Israelites can sing the new song. Rev. 14:3-5 says, "And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and NO MAN COULD LEARN THAT SONG BUT THE HUNDRED AND FORTY AND FOUR THOUSAND, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God."

Now we can see that the foolish virgins have lost something that they cannot regain unless they are part of the 144,000 Israelites. Only the 144,000 Israelites are added to the Bride group.

Luke 21:36 Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape ALL these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." Pentecost seems like a good bet for the great Pre-Trib escape.

It fits Song of Solomon 2:10-14 and Isa. 18:3-5. That has to be spring. The grapes are in bloom and setting fruit around June 1st. As soon as the vine dressers can see which twigs are setting fruit and which are not, they prune the vines, cutting off the trigs that will sap the energy of the vine but set no fruit.

Song 2:15 says, "our vines have tender grapes." That fits Pentecost. Agape


Consider that Jerusalem, Israel (the sign of the Fig Tree) was captured on June 7, 1967 and if the 'Law of Stripes' has a full-measure of forty complete years to the minute. Then from midnight June 7, 1967 to midnight June 7, 2008 would be forty complete years to the minute. One second after midnight it would be forty-one, and the 'Law of Stripes' would be violated!

If in fact, Sunday June 8, 2008 is True Pentecost it will BEGIN at sunset (6:00 pm) on Saturday Evening the day before which just happens to be June 7. The First Watch begins at 6:00 pm, the Second Watch begins at 9:00 pm and ends at Midnight! WHAT IF HE COMES IN THE SECOND WATCH just before midnight? The 'Law of Stripes' would NOT BE VIOLATED!

Luke 12:37-38: "It will be good for those servants whose master finds them WATCHING when He comes. ---. It will be good for those servants whose master finds them ready, EVEN IF HE COMES IN THE SECOND or third WATCH OF THE NIGHT".

Matthew 25:6:"AT MIDNIGHT the cry rang out! Here's the Bridegroom! Come out to meet him!"


My reply

June 7, 1967 + 40 years = June 7, 2007. That is 40 full years. Anything over that is over 40 years.

2Co 11:24 says, "Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one." That was the custom, to give no more than 39 stripes.

I think true Pentecost will be Sivan 7, 5768, Tuesday, June 10, 2008, the 41st anniversary of the end of the Six-Day War of 1967.

Lev 23:15,16 shows that the day after Firstfruits is Omer number one. It says, "And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering (i.e., from Firstfruits); seven sabbaths (i.e., 7 weeks) shall be complete. Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD." Pentecost means 50. It is the 50th day from Firstfruits, Nisan 16. If Nisan 16 is on Sunday, as it was in 3790 (30 AD), I think Pentecost falls on Monday, Sivan 7.

Concerning the Jubilee year, Lev 25:8 says, "And thou shalt number seven sabbaths (i.e., weeks) of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years."

When figuring the Jubilee Year, we should first figure 7 x 7 years = 49 years. Then the next year is the Jubilee Year, the 50th year.

Likewise, when figuring Pentecost, we should first figure 7 x 7 days = 49 days. Then the next day is Pentecost, which means 50.

Some people think the day in Rev. 1:10 should be translated Sunday. Tyndale's New Testament says, "I was in the sprete on a sondaye and herde behynde me a gret voyce as it had bene of a trompe."

Rev. 1:10 (KJV) says, "I was (lit., became) in the Spirit on the Lord's (kuriakos, belonging to the Lord, either Jehovah's or Jesus Christ's) day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet". That is in the Preview of The Revelation of Jesus Christ, first, because the setting of this miracle play is 10 days before the Rapture (Rev. 2:10), and second, because in Rev. 1:19, John was to write about the things that were past (i.e., before the Rapture), the things that were (i.e., at the time of the Rapture, and the things that would come after the Rapture).

This day is important, because in this Preview, John was caught up to Heaven. When there, he not only saw Jesus, but he saw the 7 churches and the 7 star performers that were still in Jesus' hand. Jesus had just caught them up.

In my opinion, the ISV is wrong. It says, "I came to be in the Spirit on the Day of the Lord, when I heard a loud voice behind me like a trumpet,"

The day of the First Trump Rapture of I Thess. 4:16,17 can't be the same day as the Last Trump Rapture of I Cor. 15:51,52. At the first one, no one is literally made immortal. We are raised incorruptible (1 Cor. 15:42), but not yet immortal. All together and at the same time, the whole Body of Christ is made immortal at the time of the Last Trump Rapture.

I Thess. 4:16,17 says, "the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the TRUMP of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

I Cor. 15:51-53 says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

From Joel 1:15 and 2:1-3, we can see that the Day of the Lord is the Day of God's Wrath on the Feast of Trumpets.

Joel 1:15; 2:1,2 says, "Alas for the day! for the day of the LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come....Blow ye the trumpet in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong (Gog's army); there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations."

From Rev. 6:17 and 7:14, we can see that the Second Rapture will take place on the Day of the Lord, the Day of God's Wrath.

Rev. 6:17 says, "For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

Rev 7:14 says, "These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

The Day of Jesus Christ is the day of the Pre-Trib Rapture. Php 1:6 says, "Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ". 1Cor 1:8 says, "Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ."

Therefore, I think Rev. 1:10 is talking about the Day of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is the Rapture, not Sunday. I will be watching on Tuesday, June 10, 2008. That Sivan 7, Pentecost, will start at 6 PM on June 9, and last till 6 PM on June 10.

In Mark 13:28-37, Jesus said, "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch (Israel) is yet tender (young, 19 years old), and putteth forth leaves (i.e., in the Six-Day War), ye know that summer is near (starts June 21): So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it (i.e., the Rapture) is nigh, even at the doors (symbol of the 2 Raptures). Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done. Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away. But of that day and that hour knoweth (on that particular day) no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even (6 PM), or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing (3 PM), or in the morning (starts at 6 AM): Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch." I'm watching. Agape

Note: Since Ruth lay at Boaz feet at midnight, the Rapture could take place at midnight, but in what time zone, Israel's? I'll be watching, no matter which day Pentecost falls on.

Posted on Five Doves site, Re: Marilyn Agee "Apostasia"
Jim Bramlett (20 May 2008)

If you get a copy of Emil Gaverluk's book, "The Rapture before the Russian invasion of Israel," pages 173-177, the author has actual copies of original pages of seven major pre-KJV English versions of the Bible that show the Greek word apostasia translated as "departing first."

My reply

Thanks much. Do you know which Bibles translated it that way? Agape

His reply

I looked it up and it shows:

1. Wycliffe Bible, "departynge first"
2. Tyndale Bible, "departynge first"
3. Coverdale Bible, "departynge first"
4. Crammer Bible, "departynge first"
5. Beeches Bible, "departing first"
6. Beza Bible, "departing first"
7. Geneva Bible, "departing first"

Amazing, huh? Here is an instance where it appears theological tradition has actually changed God's Word! Jim

My reply

Thank you so much. I had no luck finding it. I turned up these dates though.

Wycliffe Bible, 1380
Tyndale Bible, 1525/26
Coverdale Bible, 1535
Cranmer Bible, 1539
Beeches Bible, 1583
Beza Bible, 1583
Geneva Bible, 1560 ... Agape

His reply, re: "More on "apostasia"

A reader responded and said:
The late Ray Stedman, in his book "Adventuring Through the Bible" (as excellent book) says the same thing regarding using the word "departing" instead of "rebellion" in 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Chuck Missler, whom I'm sure you know, says the same thing. Chuck was a student of Ray Stedman. I'm sure you could quote the above regarding what Ray says about this. I added it to my notes in this area along with what you have sent in every Bible that I have. It sure makes more sense to me. Ray Stedman and Chuck Missler are outstanding Bible scholars.

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