Pro and Con 1418

Posted 6-20-08, Hebrew dates updated 6-22-08

Eta Carinae

Eta Carinae and the Homunculus Nebula

June 17, 2008 - About 165 years ago, the southern star Eta Carinae mysteriously became the second brightest star in the night sky. In 20 years, after ejecting more mass than our Sun, Eta Car unexpected faded. This outburst appears to have created the Homunculus Nebula, pictured above...Eta Car still undergoes unexpected outbursts, and its high mass and volatility make it a candidate to explode in a spectacular supernova sometime...

My note: In spite of outbursts, this still looks like a decoration for a table at a wedding reception. Perhaps that is still a sign for us today.

Blue flash preceding Supernova flash

This ultraviolet flash of light was produced from inside this dying star just before it exploded. It marked the first time scientists observed what happened in the final moments before a doomed star burst into space...

Usually, when astronomers see a supernova, the star has already been destroyed. "It's very hard to tell much about precisely the kind of star that actually died there," Schawinski told "The really cool thing about our observations is this light traveling ahead of the shock wave traveled through the star before it was destroyed."...

On Five Doves site

Cindy Busch (18 June 2008)
"to Pastor Riley, This pastor says that PENTECOST is Aug. 1, 2008"

Dear Pastor Riley,
I wanted to let you know that I really respect the work and study you have labored so long with, so that people like me can reap the benefits of your diligence.

There is lots of strong evidence that seems to point to a 2008 Pentecost rapture. . .

Which led me at this late hour to begin to seek out what is meant in the scriptures when it says, “ the day of Pentecost was fully come. . .” and I came across a study that points to a date much later than what is thought. . . .

This person reminded me of you, for he seems to be another pastor that grasp the detail of the word very well.

When you had your Pentecost revelation in the latter part of April, you didn’t do a study as to exactly what day Pentecost was held, you simply went to a current calendar and used the day it said was Pentecost. . . .

This pastor has delved deeper and did a long study with lots of scriptural evidence that seems to point to a Pentecost that is much later than what is thought. . .

I wanted to make sure you received it before summer began, for I thought this may be a study you would be interested in as well as other doves. . .

Below seems to be scriptural proof that Pentecost is counted 50 days after the 7th Sabbath is complete after the morrow after the Sabbath of the 1st barley wave offering. . .

Excerpt from his site. . .

“Leviticus 23:16 should be understood to begin the count to Pentecost, 50 days AFTER the seventh Sabbath complete.

“Here are some of my notes on what the Scripture teaches is the true count to Pentecost which is 50 days “after” the 7th Sabbath complete, not 50 days after the wave sheaf or 1st Sabbath.

Lev-23:16 “Even unto the morrow "after" the seventh Sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto YHWH””

Here is the link to the study and this Pastor’s website

If what this Pastor says is true, the day of Pentecost may not be fully come until sometime in August! Maranatha! Cindy

My thoughts on upcoming possible Rapture dates

First, I am researching the possibility of an August 1st Pentecost, but I'm skeptical. Pastor Bowen interprets Lev-23:16 as meaning “Even unto the morrow "after" the seventh Sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto YHWH”

To me, Lev. 23:15,16 (KJV) is very clear. In the Old Testament, Pentecost was not called Pentecost. It was called the Feast of Weeks, or the Feast of Harvest. Lev. 23:15,16 says, "And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering (i.e., from the Feast of Firstfruits, an annual Sabbath); seven sabbaths (i.e., weeks) shall be complete (i.e., 49 days): Even unto the MORROW (i.e., the 50th day) AFTER the seventh sabbath (i.e., after the 49th day) shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD." That 50th day is the Feast of Weeks the New Testament calls Pentecost because it means 50. To me, the MORROW limits the countdown to one more day, not another 50 days.

I thought Pentecost had to be in the spring. Pastor Bowen said to count the days of Paul's journey to Jerusalem for Pentecost in Acts 20 and 21. I counted them and got 34 days plus the unknown "many days." If the target from Nisan 21, the last day of Unleavened Bread, was Sivan 7, the "many days" would be 9 days. That seems reasonable to me, and Sivan 7 is in the spring.

Pastor Bowen counts the days that Paul does NOT travel and includes the 7 days of Unleavened Bread. That doesn't seem right. Acts 20:6 says of the first leg of the journey, "we sailed away from Philippi AFTER THE DAYS OF UNLEAVENED BREAD, and came unto them to Troas in five days; where we abode seven days."

Re possible days for the Rapture in 2008. The Rapture is as the days of Noah. He knew 7 days before it started to rain. Maybe we will know 10 days before the Rapture, because we will get a sign. There will be a TOTAL SOLAR ECLIPSE on Friday, August 1, 2008. It could be a SIGN that the Rapture is nigh, maybe on Av 10 which is our August 11, 2008. The spies returned to Moses on Av 10, forty days after they went up into the Promised Land on Sivan 30 (July 3, 2008), the time of firstripe grapes.

When Israel was in the desert, the FIRST to go up into the Promised Land were the 12 spies. Why 12? That's the number of patriarchs of Israel, and all 12, along with the 12 apostles, will be the 24 elders seen enthroned in Heaven right after the Rapture (Rev. 4:1-4). The number 12 signifies perfection of government. It fits the 12 elders and the 12 apostles.

As Pastor Riley said, the number 8 means new beginnings. It could refer to 5768 or 2008, when the 24 elders would be seated on their thrones in Heaven. In the past, Jesus was 12 years old when he went up to the Temple in 8 AD. That was a new beginning. He had to see to his Father's business.

Will the temple of the Holy Spirit go up to Heaven in 2008 AD? It still looks promising. Keep watching. Rev. 3:3 says, "Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee." If we watch, we can know when Jesus will come for us. That was written to the church 10 days before the Rapture. Rev. 2:10 says, "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation TEN DAYS: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life."

Will the total Solar eclipse of Aug. 1 be seen 10 days before the Rapture on Av 10 (August 11, 2008)? I don't know, but it might. It is certainly worth considering. We are getting closer to the Rapture all the time.

There are three total Solar eclipses on Tamuz 29 or Av 1 IN THREE CONSECUTIVE YEARS, in 2008, 2009 and 2010. Av 1 is the next day after Tamuz 29.

1. (2008 Aug 1) TOTAL SOLAR ECLIPSE (Tamuz 29, 5768)

THE RAPTURE MIGHT BE ON AV 10, 5768. Notice the pattern set up here. The event is preceded by the first eclipse in a series.

2. (2009 Jul 22) TOTAL SOLAR ECLIPSE (Av 1, 5769)
3. (2010 Jul 11) TOTAL SOLAR ECLIPSE (Tamuz 29, 5770)

The eclipses in this series seem significant, for that is during the "dark time" from Tamuz 17 to Av 9, when the Jews remember the burning of the Temple. The Rapture could follow the first Solar Eclipse. That seems to fit the patterns set in 1948 and 1967 too.

The four eclipses in 1948 and 1949


(MAY 14, 1948) (IYAR 6, 5708) ISRAEL BECAME A NATION after the 1st eclipse of this series


In 1967, there were 2 eclipses before the event and 6 afterward



5. 1968 Mar 28 SOLAR ECLIPSE Partial (Adar 29, 5728) DAY BEFORE NISAN 1, 1ST DAY OF SACRED YEAR

The time of the Firstripe grapes

Let's read Nu. 13:17-25 carefully. It says, "When the spies were sent into the promised land, "Moses called Oshea (meaning a saviour, deliverer) the son of Nun (the eternal) JEHOSHUA (Jehovah is Saviour). And Moses (meaning TAKEN OUT, DRAWN FORTH) sent them to spy out the land of Canaan, and said unto them, Get you UP this way southward, and GO UP INTO THE MOUNTAIN (i.e., symbolic of the kingdom of Heaven)...THE TIME WAS THE TIME OF THE FIRSTRIPE GRAPES. So they went UP, and searched the land from the wilderness of Zin (thorn, i.e., from Earth) unto Rehob (space)...And they came unto the brook of Eshcol (cluster of grapes), and cut down from thence a branch with ONE CLUSTER OF GRAPES (i.e., the first Rapture)...the place was called the brook Eshcol, because of THE CLUSTER OF GRAPES...AND they RETURNED from searching the land AFTER FORTY DAYS".

Song of Solomon 7:7 says, "This thy stature is like to a palm tree, and thy breasts to clusters of grapes." There are two Raptures.

Was "GO UP INTO THE MOUNTAIN" a type of the Pre-Trib Rapture? Maybe the time when the spies were sent into the Promised Land, or when they returned after 40 days, could be the day we go up in the Rapture to our Promised Land, Heaven.

Moses told the spies to go up into the mountain (symbolizing the Kingdom of Heaven) at the time of the firstripe grapes. This year, I think the time of the firstripe grapes will be Sivan 30, 5768 (July 3, 2008). We will know soon if the Rapture could be on that day.

The spies returned with a huge cluster of grapes 40 days later (Nu. 13:17-26). The number 40 means testing and probation. By inclusive reckoning, 40 days after Sivan 30, 5768 (Thursday, July 3, 2008) would be Av 10, 5768 (Monday, August 11, 2008).

Av 10 is an important date. It is the day both Solomon's and Herod's Temples burned. The Jews say the Temples burned on Av 9. Jeremiah said Solomon's Temple burned on Av 10. Josephus said that Herod's Temple burned on Av 10. However, the fire was started in some outer buildings on Av 9. It burned into the sanctuary like a raging inferno on Av 10.

Of the temple burning in 70 AD, Josephus said, "So Titus retired into the tower of Antonia, and resolved to storm the temple the next day, to encamp round about the holy house; but, as for that house, God had for certain long ago doomed it to the fire; and now that fatal day was come, according to the revolution of ages: IT WAS THE TENTH DAY OF THE MONTH LOUS, [AB,] (i.e., Av 10) UPON WHICH IT WAS FORMERLY BURNT BY THE KING OF BABYLON...THE SAME MONTH AND DAY WERE NOW OBSERVED, AS I SAID BEFORE, WHEREIN THE HOLY HOUSE WAS BURNT FORMERLY BY THE BABYLONIANS" (Wars. VI. IV. 5, 8).

Of Solomon's Temple, Jer 52:12,13 says, "Now in the fifth month (Av), in the TENTH DAY of the month, which was the nineteenth year of Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon, came Nebuzaradan, captain of the guard, which served the king of Babylon, into Jerusalem, And burned the house of the LORD, and the king's house; and all the houses of Jerusalem, and all the houses of the great men, burned he with fire".

Isa. 9:18 says, "they shall mount up like (symbolic language) the lifting up of smoke. Could the plan be for us to go up in a cloud on the same day the Temple went up in a cloud of smoke? We will have to wait and see.

For the Jews today, beginning with Tamuz 17, and continuing to Av 9 (Tisha be-Av) is a time of mourning for the loss of both temples, the loss of Jerusalem, and the loss of their national entity in ancient times. This period, called by the Jews "The Three Weeks" (of grief), the "Dark Time" and "Between the Straits," begin and end with fast days. NO WEDDINGS are held during this dark time. This fits, because the Marriage of the Lamb is after the 144,000 virgins are caught up in the Pre-Wrath Rapture (Rev. 14:4,5). They are added to the Bride group "for they are without fault before the throne of God" (Rev. 14:5).

NOAH FLOATED UPWARD AT THE END OF 40 DAYS AND 40 NIGHTS. Maybe we will too. The Rapture is as the days of Noah.


THE SPIES RETURNED WITH ONE HUGE BUNCH OF GRAPES AFTER 40 DAYS. I'm hoping the Rapture will be on Av 10. That's 40 days after the time of the firstripe grapes, Sivan 30, 5768 (July 3, 2008).

My reply to Rene on the Five Doves site

To: Rene (16 June 2008)
"The Harvest and NINE Raptures!"

> > We don't know yet if the rapture of the Church will be seen visibly. My guess is that it won't be

I think it will be seen by many. Psa. 40:1-3 says, "I waited patiently for the LORD; and he inclined (lit., bent down) unto me, and heard my cry. HE BROUGHT ME UP (alah, caused me to ascend; as harpazo, to be caught up with force, in I Thess. 4:16,17) also out of an horrible pit (as when Jeremiah was brought up out of the miry pit), out of the miry clay (i.e., out of this earthly body), and set my feet upon a rock (Heaven), and established my goings (the 2 Raptures, Pre-Trib and Pre-Wrath). And he hath put a NEW SONG in my mouth (the NEW SONG is sung by the saints right after the Pre-Trib Rapture (Rev. 5:9, and only by the 144,000 right after the Pre-Wrath Rapture; Rev. 14:3-5), even praise unto our God: MANY SHALL SEE IT, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD." Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: "The Hand of God"

By Pastor F. M. Riley

“Give thanks unto the Lord, call upon His name, make known His deeds among the people,” 1 Chronicles 16:8.


It is commonly said today that “old men” write their memoirs. I guess I finally qualify. I am now 74 years of age and have been in the Lord’s ministry for 54 years. Over these many years I have personally experienced many things, and read or heard about many other things, which clearly set forth the “hand of God” at work in my own life or the lives of other people. Some of these things were very wrong and some even evil, yet they still stand out in my mind as demonstrations of the power of Almighty God to intervene in the affairs of men. Other events and experiences were very good, so much so that I still rejoice in the goodness and mercy of our gracious God and Savior as I call them back to memory after all of these years. I now want to share some of these past memories with God’s people, hopefully to enlighten, bless, and encourage. Each reader can decide for themselves whether the memory shared shows forth “the mighty hand of God.”

The Great Earthquake of 1994

Many of God’s people living today, especially our readers in California, will remember the great earthquake that struck California in 1994. The year had barely started when, on January 15, 1994, a powerful earthquake ravaged part of the state. There was great destruction and many lives were lost.

Do those of you who remember this event also recall that the epicenter of that quake was later determined by geologists to have surfaced exactly under the main headquarters building of the largest producer of pornography in the entire world? This wicked company was literally flooding the world with the filth it was printing in that building. It is needless to say that the building was totally destroyed and lives were lost in its destruction. The wages of sin have never changed, Romans 6:23. Would you say this was just “coincidence,” or was it “the hand of God?” You decide!

But in that quake there was also the story about the little girl and the Doberman pinscher. This story was carried on the news media all across this nation for several weeks after that quake. I know some of you will remember seeing or reading the story for yourself.

In a residential neighborhood set two houses side by side with a chain link fence separating the two yards from one another. In one house lived a family with a large mean looking Doberman pinscher dog. In the house next door lived a couple who had a three year old daughter.

The little girl was afraid to go out into the front yard of her home alone, for when she did the mean looking Doberman pinscher next door would walk up and down the fence glaring at her and growling menacingly. This terrified the little girl, and she would run screaming and crying back into her house. This had created some ill will between the two families.

Then came the day of the earthquake. The owner of the Doberman pinscher later reported that the dog was sleeping quietly, when he suddenly bolted straight up and ran for the door. The door was open because it was a warm day in California, but a locked screen door stood between the dog and the yard outside. The lady reported that the Doberman never slowed down but ran right through the screen door, ripping the screen wide open as he passed through. The dog’s owner ran to the door just in time to see the Doberman clear the four foot high chain link fence in one bound without even slowing down. At that precise time the lady’s entire house began to shake and her attention was instantly drawn away from the dog and centered upon her own safety.

But in the house next door the little three year old girl was standing in the kitchen right in front of the refrigerator talking to her mother. On top of that refrigerator set a large older model cabinet TV which was very heavy. Just as the house began to shake from the earthquake, the Doberman pinscher burst through the locked screen door of this house without stopping, just as he had burst through the first screen on the house next door. The Doberman ran straight through the house to the kitchen and leaped upon the now frightened and screaming little girl, knocking her out of the way just as the large TV on the refrigerator came crashing down to the floor right where the little girl had been standing only an instant before. The Doberman then grabbed the little girl’s dress and drug her into the open area of the kitchen where her mother could lift her into her arms. Then the mother holding her precious daughter, and the Doberman, ran out of the house and into the safety of the front yard. The Doberman had just saved that little girl’s life. As her mother and the little girl set down in the yard, the Doberman began licking the terrified little girl’s face and wagging his tail to calm her down and show her that he meant her no harm.

Both of these ladies were later interviewed by the news media, verifying the details of this whole incident, and the story was carried on the national news media. They also reported that the little girl and the Doberman became the best of friends, and likewise the two families. I am sure that some of our readers will remember this story being reported on the news, or reading about it in the newspaper at that time. Anyone wanting to verify the story can research it in the archives of the Los Angeles papers or TV stations for 1994.

Folks, how did that Doberman pinscher dog, asleep in his own home, know the danger that the little girl who lived next door was in? Who directed that dog to do what he did in order to save that little girl from being killed? Who gave that dog the almost superhuman [or shall we say “superdog”] strength to burst right through two screen doors and clear a four foot chain link fence without even slowing down? Who told that dog right where he would find the little girl in a house that was strange to him?

Now you tell me…..was “the mighty hand of God” at work in this event or not? I could not help but think of the words our Lord spoke to “doubtingThomas,” as I have recalled this event and shared it with our readers, “… not faithless, but believing,” John 20:27.

“Let every thing that hath breath praise the Lord. Praise ye the Lord,” Psalm 150:6.

Last Call Gospel Ministry,

Incoming e-mail, Re: Re: Coincidence? (Abram was born in 2008 AH

Thank you - I did double check and you are correct. Where I went wrong was in Gen 11:26 - I mistakingly thought since Abram's name was listed first, that he was the firstborn of Terah so all I did was add the 70 years. Thanks for pointing out the relationship between Terah's death and Abram's age. The only thing I'm trying to figure out now correctly is Shem's year born, because you have to have that right in order to calculate the rest of the genealogy listed in Gen 11:10-26. My confusion now is In Gen 11:10 it says "Two years after the great flood (since the rain fell in 1656 and then the flood waters receded in 1657 when Noah was 601 years old, wouldn't 2 years after the waters receded mark the correct year to base Shem's born on date?) 2 years after the great flood would make it year 1659 (based on when the waters receded) when Shem had turned 100 years old making his year born 1559. I know this seems trivial but how do we interpret "two years after the great flood"?

I went to and looked all of that over and was amazed (I have bookmarked that for my own reference now)! Thank you for your study and your willingness to share what your learning and finding out - seeing how others study the Word helps to model it for those who are trying to do so themselves so thanks again.

My reply

1558 AH Shem born (Gen 11:10). (Noah born 1056 AH. He was 600 when flood began. Flood was in 1656 AH. Shem was 100 two yrs after Flood, so was 98 when Flood began. Therefore, he was born 1558 AH when Noah was 502)
1651 AH Lamech died at 777 (Gen 5:31), 5 yrs before the Flood
1656 AH = 2387 BC The Flood after Methuselah died at 969 (Gen 7:27), when Noah was 600 (Gen 7:6).
DOUBLE CHECK:Methuselah lived 969 years and then the Flood came, Genesis 5:27. (687 AH + 969 = 1656 AH).
DOUBLE CHECK: Noah was 600 yrs old when the Flood came, Gen 7:6. (1056 AH + 600 = 1656 AH).
DOUBLE CHECK: Adam lived 930 yrs. Methuselah lived 969 yrs. Their lives overlapped 243 yrs. (930 + 969 = 1899 - 1656 to Flood = 243, making any changes difficult). Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Tree grown from ancient Masada seed

Palm Tree Grown from 2,000-Year-Old Date Stone, from the Guardian (UK)

An ancient seed that germinated after being recovered from the rubble of King Herod's pleasure palace has been dated as 2,000 years old, smashing the record for the oldest seed ever grown.

The seed was among three recovered during excavations at Masada, an imposing 2,044-year-old clifftop fortress on the edge of the Judean desert overlooking the Dead Sea.

Researchers planted the seed three years ago after treating it with hormone-laced fertilisers. To their surprise, it germinated and began to grow. The plant, dubbed the "Methuselah tree" after the oldest character in the Bible, now stands 1.5m tall.

My reply

Thanks. Interesting. I didn't even realize that Herod had a pleasure palace on Masada. Agape

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