Pro and Con 142, Uploaded 6-30-98
Re: Show me:
It just so happens that I do believe time is very short, but I have searched the Bible and there is not one indication of a so called rapture of the church or of anyone else. The bible plainly indicates that we will meet Jesus in the sky at the second coming, and we will decend with him as he sets up the thousand year reign of Christ. if u can show me different be my guest. But so far I've seen not one peice of scripture to support a rapture of the church. I had always believed in a rapture of church before I read the Bible. after much study I must say I'm awaiting the coming of the lord. but I don't think it will be seven years ahead of others unless I graduate and go back home to be with him. through death. a believer and servant of Christ Jesus
My reply On the day of God's Wrath, the sun an moon are darkened by smoke from 2 pieces of an asteroid that impact Earth (Rev. 6:12; 8:8,10). Jesus does not return that day. Zech. 14:5-7 says, "the LORD (YHVH) my God shall come, and all the saints with thee. And it shall come to pass in that day, that THE LIGHT SHALL NOT BE CLEAR, NOR DARK: But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light." Jesus does not return on the day of "thick darkness" (Joel 2:2). When he does return, it will be in glory.
That day of darkness is the Feast of Trumpets (Joel 2:1). Jesus does not return for another seven months (Ezek. 39:12). It is a Jewish Leap year and there are seven months between the Feast of Trumpets on Nisan 1 and the return of Christ on Nisan 1 (Ezek. 29:17,21; 45:18,21), the first day of the Jewish Regnal Year.
If the saints were not taken up before the Day of God's Wrath, they would have to go through his wrath. That is impossible. The wrath is to be poured out on unbelievers. On that same day, in Heaven, the believers will be receiving their rewards at the Judgment Seat of Christ.
Rev. 11: 17,18 says, "We give thee thanks, O lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come (the Second Advent is still future); because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned (His Coronation was earlier that same day). And the nations were angry, and THY WRATH IS COME, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest GIVE REWARD unto thy servants the prophets, and TO THE SAINTS, and them that fear thy name, small and great; AND shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth."
Therefore, the saints cannot go up in the air and immediately come back down with Christ. There are seven months between the Pre-Wrath Rapture and the Second Advent.
There are two Raptures, one for the Philadelphians in Rev. 4:1, before the Tribulation. Jesus set before them the open door and said, "Because thou hast kept the word of my PATIENCE (something we need right now), I also will keep thee FROM the hour of temptation (peirasmos, trial), which shall come upon ALL THE WORLD, to TRY THEM that dwell upon the earth" (Rev. 3:10). We have our time of testing, but it is nothing compared to the Tribulation that will come upon all the world.
The Pre-Trib Rapture is when Jesus says, "Come up hither" in Rev. 4:1. The Pre-Wrath Rapture is indicated in Rev. 7:14. In between is Rev. 6. It starts with the beginning of the Tribulation and ends with the Day of God's Wrath. The Pre-Wrath Rapture takes place on that day, but between the breaking of the sixth and seventh seals. They are in HEAVEN in Rev. 7, and God's Wrath is poured out afterward, in Rev. 8. "Only with thine eyes shalt thou behold and see the reward of the wicked" (Psa. 91:8).
We got a preview when the comet pieces hit Jupiter. Two major pieces will hit Earth. In Rev. 8:8, "a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea." Two verses later, "there fell a great star (aster) from heaven, burning as it were a lamp."
"And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified (the Second Advent), saith the Lord GOD" (Ezek. 39:12). This is when he will come will all his saints.
Incoming Email Re: CHEER COMMITTEE
Hi MJ... how goes it? keep on pressing on girl ... you're waking up a perverse generation... I have something for you to ponder considering the TWO WITNESSES post the RAPTURE... (REF: pro con 141) the Spirit of the Lord revealed to me that the TWO WITNESSES have to be ELISHA and ENOCH... for the following reasons:
JESUS hadn't won the keys of death and hell until after His death... the only two men that haven't seen death prior to that VICTORY (they were RAPTURED before CHRIST) were these two men... MOSES died and Michael fought with Satan over his body... the WORD says; we're only appointed ONCE to die... MOSES can't die twice... I think the Spirit of the Jesus also revealed to me the following:
those two men were pulled out by the Lord for their walks with the Him; it seems to me we have a STANDARD of behavior given to us by the Lord to qualify for the RAPTURE (prize)... who knows but if you look at the character and behavior of both of these men that were translated, we all need to ask the Lord to give us that kind of walk with Him... just something to ponder - I guess...?
God speed and grace be with you through the AWE-SOME power of the Lord Jesus Christ!!!
keep up the good work and keep us informed - see you in the clouds (if I'm worthy to escape?)!!!
p.s. A prayer the Lord has laid on my heart is this "Lord consider me and help me to be part of your church of brotherly love (Philadelphia); mold me and make me an instrument of your grace and love through Christ that lives within me"... AMEN
Jesus said "I am the way, the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father except through me"
My reply I appreciate your kindness. I want to wake up as many as possible. We are in the end times.
Some people sluff off the fig tree parable in Mt. 24:32-34 and say that "This generation" meant the generation living in 30 AD, or that it just refers to the race. However, the events of the Tribulation mentioned just prior to the parable (abomination of desolation, greater tribulation than had ever been or would ever be, sun and moon dark, seeing the Son of man coming, gathering the elect, etc.), not only did not take place between 30 AD and 70 AD, but instead of the fig tree putting forth leaves, the tree itself was cut down. That scenario does not fit. This generation that saw the fig tree put forth leaves (grow) in 1967 is the one that all these things will come upon. The fig tree could not grow until she was back in the land, grafted back on her old rootstock (1948).
This is serious stuff that is coming down, "For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be" (Mt. 24:21). This is really bad news. Civilization as we know it will be destroyed. The "mountains (major pieces of an asteroid, Rev. 8:8 and 8:10) shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and EVERY wall shall fall to the ground" (Ezek. 38:20). There will be an overflowing shower and "great hailstones, fire, and brimstone" (v. 22). The Lord says, "Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the EYES (i.e., be seen) of many nations, and they shall KNOW that I am the LORD (YHVH)" (v. 23). Those who have not believed will KNOW in that day.
"And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the FACE of him that siteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?" (Rev. 6:15-17).
"BEHOLD, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and turneth it upside down, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof....The land shall be utterly emptied, and utterly spoiled: for the LORD hath spoken this word. The earth mourneth and fadeth away, the world languisheth and fadeth away, the haughty people of the earth do languish. The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath THE CURSE devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left" (Isa. 24:1-6).
Those days are approaching. They will hit "this generation" born when the fig tree grew leaves.
"For who hath stood in the cousel of the LORD, and hath perceived and heard his word? who hath marked his word, and heard it? Behold, a whirlwind of the LORD is gone forth in fury, even a grievous whirlwind: it shall fall grievously upon the head of the wicked. The anger of the LORD shall not return, until he have executed, and till he have performed the thoughts of his heart: IN THE LATTER DAYS YE SHALL CONSIDER IT PERFECTLY" (Jer. 23:18-20). The word translated "consider" means UNDERSTAND. Could those of the first century AD understand what a whirling burning asteroid was? No. Can "this generation" understand? Yes. We are living in the latter days.
Jer. 9:12 asks, "Who is the wise man, that may understand this? and who is he to whom the mouth of the LORD hath spoken, that he may declare it, for what the land perisheth and is burned up like a wilderness, that none passeth through?" If you understand, pass the word. Be like a watchman on the wall. This is serious business. Praise the Lord that he has given us a chance to get out of here before this happens. No believer will have to go through this.
At the second trumpet, "as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea (Mediterranean, Zeph. 2: 4,5): and the third part of the sea became blood; And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died: and the third part of the ships were destroyed. And the third angel sounded, and there fell a great star (aster) from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters" (Rev. 8:8-10).
"And a river went out of Eden to water the garden; and from thence it was parted, and became into four heads" (Gen. 2:10-14). The "fourth river is Euphrates." This asteroid destroys literal Babylon on the Euphrates. "Because of the wrath of the LORD it shall not be inhabited, but it shall be wholly desolate: every one that goeth by Babylon shall be astonished, and hiss at all her plagues" (Jer. 50:13).
"Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her. And a mighty angel took up a stone like a great millstone, and cast it into the sea, saying, Thus with violence shall that great city Babylon be thrown down, and shall be found no more at all" (Rev. 18:20,21).
> the TWO WITNESSES have to be ELISHA and ENOCH... for the following reasons:
> JESUS hadn't won the keys of death and hell until after His death.
I think you mean Elijah.
Christ is the creator. He always had the keys of death and hell. He said, "I am the first (YHVH King of Israel) and the last (YHVH of hosts; Isa. 44:6); I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore. Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death" (Rev. 1:17,18).
> the only two men that haven't seen death prior to that VICTORY (they were
> RAPTURED before CHRIST) were these two men... MOSES died and Michael fought
> with Satan over his body... the WORD says; we're only appointed ONCE to
> die... MOSES can't die twice
Lazarus did. So did a few others. We are only appointed once to die. There is no such thing as reincarnation. However, there are some exceptions. Likewise in Noah's day, "Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD" but yet as a general rule, "all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth" (Gen. 6:8,12). There can be special circumstances. Noah had sinned, for all have sinned, but because he walked with God, he found grace in the eyes of the LORD. He was also "perfect in his generations." God needed him so that Jesus could be born a pure human being. In Moses' case, because he was an exception to the general rule, Satan argued about his body.
Why is Moses needed? In Luke 16:29-31, Abraham said unto the rich man in Tartarus, "They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead." I think one will rise from the dead to prove this point. Man must be given every chance. God is fair. Later, no one will be able to open their mouth and say that if one had been sent back from the dead, they would have believed. Likewise, right before the terror of terrors, the asteroid impact, men will see Christ in the sky. They can't say, "Well, if I had seen him, I would have believed."
"And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and THEY REPENTED NOT TO GIVE HIM GLORY" (Rev. 16:9). How stubborn can one get?
"If they hear not Moses and the prophets" fits Moses and Elijah very well. Both are prophets. The powers that the two witnesses have in Rev. 11 also fit them perfectly. Did Moses "have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues" (Rev. 11:6) when the Israelites were to come out of Egypt?
Rev. 11:4 says, "These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks (Zech. 4:2,3) standing before the God of the earth." Moses and Elijah stood before Christ at the Transfiguration to show us who these two witnesses are.
> keep up the good work and keep us informed - see you in the clouds (if I'm
> worthy to escape?)!!!
Believers should confess all known sins to God, and he is faithful and just to cleanse us of all unrighteousness. Then we are as pure virgins with lots of oil waiting on the Bridegroom. Follow Peters list of things to add to your faith so you will never fail (II Peter 1:4-11).
Incoming Email I wrote to you last night, and it is now the following morning. I stayed up late into the night reading as many links as I could on your pages.
I see how people have criticized you for daring to believe that there could be an actual date for the Rapture. I think they are honestly worried that you will hurt the faith of believers if the Rapture doesn't happen on May 31. But in my case anyway, the exact opposite has occurred.
I just wanted to say THANK YOU. Your work has given me a tremendous wake-up call as a Christian. If in fact the Rapture does happen on May 31, I will rejoice but I will also mourn the fact that I wasted so much precious time. And if the Rapture happens on some other day, I will rejoice and thank God that he has given people more time to turn to him before the horrors of the Tribulation are here. For the fact is, the Rapture and the Tribulation WILL happen, and the time IS short.
I do intend to be especially watchful on May 30. I will also be especially watchful on May 29. And May 28th. And tonight (May 13). And, God permitting, on June 1, June 2, and every other day too.
The point is to WATCH and BE READY. The Lord instructed us to do this. And that is what your work has reminded me. We are to ALWAYS look to him, instead of getting caught up in the cares of the world.
I have just one final question, tied in to my letter of yesterday: How have the Baptists reacted to having you in their midst? I am seeking a church home, that's why I am asking. My present denom, Lutheranism, has gotten pretty far away from what I believe the Bible teaches. The Baptists seem to be a lot closer to what the Bible says. If the Baptists feel comfortable with you and you feel comfortable with them, then perhaps I may look in that direction.
I'm especially curious since you had the voice of the Lord speak to you (and incidently, he also said the same thing to me about two years ago. I was shocked when I read what you said about "Be still and know that I am God" because that is EXACTLY what happened to me.) Do you find the Baptists to be OK with those kinds of experiences, especially when a person's source of faith is the BIBLE?
Any help you could give would be appreciated. Thank you!
My reply Sorry to be so long in answering your email. I still have 455 emails in my Inbox, have had more to do than I could get done. You have the right attitude.
> the exact opposite has occurred.
> I just wanted to say THANK YOU. Your work has given me a tremendous
> wake-up call as a Christian
I said over and over that I wanted to be everyone's wake-up call. I guess a wake-up call is what it was all about. I never once though about him tarrying. I knew it said "tarried" in the parable of the ten virgins, but did not realize exactly what it applied to. Now while the Bridegroom tarries, Satan is probably being allowed to sift us as wheat. Jesus told Peter that Satan desired to sift him as wheat. Since Satan was allowed to test Job and Peter, chances are very good that this is a testing period. The outcome now may decide who are the wise virgins and who are the foolish.
> The point is to WATCH and BE READY.
You are so right. We must stay ready now, and not be like the "evil servant" that says, "My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken: The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder (cut him off), and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites (and 'unbelievers,' Lu. 12:46): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."
> How have the Baptists reacted to having you in their midst?
I am a very private person and keep a low profile. One pastor tapped me on the shoulder and wanted to buy my book. Someone had pointed me out to him. He let me know he agreed that the Rapture was close, but told the congregation he did not want to get into dates. I don't blame them for that. They do not want to be wrong. I go to church to worship the Lord and when I shake the pastor's hand at the door, I might tell them what I liked about what they said, but never what I disagreed with. Each is doing the best they can to do their part for the Lord, and we each have different things to do. I just compare everything I hear with the scriptures.
> I was shocked when I read what you said about "Be still and know that I am God"
> because that is EXACTLY what happened to me.) Do you find the Baptists to be
> OK with those kinds of experiences
I like the Baptist churches I have attended because they study straight from Scripture, several non-denominational churches also for the same reason, but I never did tell any of them about hearing the Lord speak to me. I don't even think I mentioned it in my first book. For a long time, I felt like it was just kinda private between me and the Lord. I didn't understand why it happened for about 20 years afterward. I was wondering about it all that time, myself.
Incoming Email You asked me once, what kind of warning or notice do I think that God will give us before the rapture?
I personally think, that Russia will simultaneously attack Israel and the United States with nuclear weapons. This event I think will probably happen a short time before the rapture. Also at the same time, God Himself will deliver Israel (as specifically promised for this event), and that a worldwide earthquake will occur at the very instant of the attack. The basis for this belief is found in Ezekiel. Many people think that Russia attacks Israel at the end of the tribulation, and they do, but Russia attacks Israel twice. For those that believe that the Psalms correspond to the years... Psalm 98 is a specific mention to Gods Deliverance. If you want to verify that their are two specific events simply look and see who accompanies Russia in the attack, it in fact is different countries the first attack, than those in the second. Also, Israel has fuel to burn for seven years, If Christ had come back they would not be needing or using this fuel. Ezekiel 38-39, Good reading. I also think that the pope will die, and Russia will return to communism, and the US will turn totally against Israel, and The economies of the world will take such a hit that their will be substantial infrastructure problems, just as in Indonesia today, but in all the countries of the world. Quite a chaos. I live in Florida, a square mile is one mile long, and one mile wide, the current fire crisis has burned one hundred and fifty nine square miles of land, as of today, 159 by 159 MILES. Texas has burned fifty percent more, as of today. Their are many other weather related problems that will severely limit the food supply of this country. The markets have been a bit shaky lately, but how many more countries can we bail out? we bailed out Indonesia, and Japan, and neither is stable yet. As time goes on I think these extreme weather events will continue and get worse and worse. Perhaps their will be some other event that will be our notice from God that He is at the door. (the shout! of the bridegroom while He is at a short distance), if so, He will reveal it at a later time. I do think that it will be something that Christians around the world will not need to be translated, it will be obvious, and instant notification. I would have gone into more detail and quoted more scriptures, but I think you know where to look.
P.S. I think Israel in their response to the attack will take over Jordan, Syria, Iran, parts of the lower Israel toward egypt, all the way to the euphrates river. They will repossess the land God gave Abraham our father. I suspect their response will be on the order of neutron bombs which leaves the structures but kills the people, but then again, that is just a guess.
My reply I don't see how you can get this out of Ezek. 38 and 39, and the only other places Gog is mentioned is in I Chron. 5:4 and Rev. 20:8, neither of which apply here.
When the armies under Gog attack Israel, there is no mention of the USA, and it is on the Day of God's Wrath on the first day of the millennial Day of the Lord. Ezek. 38:18-23 says, "And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that MY FURY shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy and in the fire of MY WRATH have I spoken, Surely in that day (one day) there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the FISHES OF THE SEA, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon te face of the earth, SHALL SHAKE at my presence (sight, as in Ezek. 36:31), and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep plaes shall fall, and every wall shalll fall to the ground....I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the EYES (the Sign of the Son of Man will be seen), and they shall KNOW that I am the LORD."
Do you think that the Tribulation could take place AFTER this event? After they KNOW that he is the LORD? In Mt. 24:29-30, we see that the Sign of the Son of Man is "Immediately after the tribulation of those days." This the day when his elect are gathered from "one end of heaven to the other" (v. 31). These are already in Heaven, having been taken there in the Pre-Trib Rapture.
This is the day the seven trumpet judgments hit Earth. When the second trumpet sounds, "a great mountain burning with fire" will impact the Mediterranean Sea (Rev. 8:8). This is why the "fishes of the sea" shake. It is also the day "a great star (aster; star, asteroid or meteorite)" will fall from heaven, burning as a lamp (Rev. 8:10) and destroy Babylon on the Euphrates.
On this day, because of the piece of the asteroid hitting the Mediterranean Sea, Gaza shall be forsaken, and Ashkelon a desolation: they shall drive out Ashdod at the noon day, and Ekron shall be rooted up. Woe unto the inhabitants of the sea coast" (Zeph. 2:4,5).
"And I will send a fire on Magog, and among them that dwell carelessly in the isles (coasts): and they SHALL KNOW THAT I AM THE LORD" (Ezek. 39:6).
After that day, Israel will burn the weapons for seven years, not before. After that day, "seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may clease the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified (the Second Advent), saith the Lord GOD" (Ezek. 39:12,13). These seven months are from the Feast of Trumpets on Tishri 1 in a Jewish leap year to Nisan 1, when the Lord returns.
It would be awfully hard for Gog to attack twice, since only "the sixth part of thee" will live through this (Ezek. 39:2).
"So the house of Israel shall KNOW that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward" (Ezek. 39:22). This is the day when Israel is born in a day (Isa. 66:8). It does not precede the Tribulation.
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