Pro and Con 1433

Posted 9-15-08

UNBELIEVABLE PHOTO

Hi Marilyn, I'm just an old retired senior citizen and veteran in Arizona that has been reading your learned writings for over 10 years. Just wanted to send this photo of the American flag. God Bless

My comment

The cross is amazing, but I thought the stars were supposed to be white on a blue background.

Incoming e-mail, Re: CONSIDER THIS

I believe that the 'Seventh Seal' BEGINS the 'Wrath of God' at mid-tribulation AFTER the 'Tribulation Saints' are seen in Heaven by John.

Rev 7:14
"These are they WHO HAVE COME OUT of the great tribulation-- " (I think they got to Heaven by the 'second rapture' at mid-tribulation before the 'Wrath of God' is poured out upon the earth at the Seventh Seal. Christians are NOT APPOINTED TO suffer God's Wrath - only the wrath of the anti-Christ during the first half of the tribulation to test those left-behind.)

Rev 8:5 Seventh Seal
"Then the angel took the censer, FILLED IT WITH FIRE FROM THE ALTER (in heaven) AND HURLED IT ON THE EARTH---" (this is the beginning of the 'Wrath of God'. Previous wrath to this is the wrath of the anti-Christ)

At this point the "fullness of the Gentiles has come in" and God turns His attention to saving the Jews during the second half of the tribulation. If there is a rapture at the end of the tribulation it will be only for the 'Sainted Jews'. The gentiles left-behind after the second rapture at mid-tribulation will "will receive a strong delusion from God" and WILL NOT get a THIRD chance at salvation.

Come Lord Jesus!
-----
THE FOLLOWING ARE THE EVENTS OF THE FIRST-HALF OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION:

Rev 6:1 "I watched as the Lamb opened the first of seven seals. (the tribulation begins)
Rev 6:3 "When the Lamb opened the second seal, I heard --
Rev 6:5 "When the lamb opened the third seal, I heard --
Rev 6:7 "When the lamb opened the fourth seal, I heard --
Rev 6:9 "When he opened the fifth seal, I saw --

Rev 6:12 "I watched as He opened the sixth seal.
Rev 6:17 "For the great day of their wrath has come -- (this is the WARNING that the 'impending wrath of God' is about TO COME)

THE FOLLOWING ARE THE EVENTS THAT OCCUR AT MID-TRIBULATION: (before the Wrath of God begins)

Rev 7:1 "After this I saw -- ( the 144,000 are sealed BEFORE the Wrath of God begins)

Rev 7:9 "After this, I looked -- (the great multitude are seen in Heaven BEFORE the Wrath of God begins)
Rev 7:14 "--These are they who have come out of the great tribulation -- (the TRIBULATION SAINTS are now in Heaven BEFORE the wrath of God begins)

THE FOLLOWING ARE THE EVENTS OF THE SECOND-HALF OF THE GREAT TRIBULATION:

Rev 8:1 "When He opened the seventh seal --
Rev 8:2 "And I saw the seven angels ---
Rev 8:5 "Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the alter (in Heaven), and hurled it on the earth -- (the Wrath of God on the earth NOW BEGINS)

Come Lord Jesus!
I think that a likely date for the second rapture would be approximately mid-tribulation Pentecost 2012, which would be four months prior to Feast of Trumpets 2012.

My reply

> > I believe that the 'Seventh Seal' BEGINS the 'Wrath of God' at mid-tribulation AFTER the 'Tribulation Saints' are seen in Heaven

I believe that the Seventh Seal begins the wrath of God at the end of the shortened Tribulation, right after the Pre-Wrath Rapture. Why? When the Pre-Wrath Rapture takes place, the Day of God's Wrath has already begun. When that day is over, all the cities of the world will be in shambles.

Rev. 6:16,17 says, "And (men) said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne (the Sign of the Son of Man seen in the sky), and from THE WRATH OF THE LAMB: FOR THE GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH IS COME". The Pre-Wrath Rapture takes place in Rev. 7.

When the asteroids of Rev. 8:8-11 impact Earth, there will be so few people left that a child could write the number. Every wall will fall in the world-wide earthquake.

All 7 trumpet judgment hit Earth in one day. Rev 8:1-13 says, "And when he had opened the SEVENTH SEAL, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour (there was silence on Earth too, while Jesus is being seated as judge at the Judgment Seat of Christ). And I saw the seven angels which stood before God; and to them were given SEVEN TRUMPETS. And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer (probably globe shaped); and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne (Christ will be crowned as this day begins). And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand. And the angel took the censer (i.e., representing the asteroids), and filled it with fire of the altar, and CAST IT INTO THE EARTH: and there were voices, and thunderings, and lightnings, and an EARTHQUAKE. And the seven angels which had the SEVEN TRUMPETS prepared themselves to sound. The first angel sounded, and there followed hail and fire mingled with blood, and they were cast upon the earth: and the third part of trees was burnt up, and all green grass was burnt up. And the second angel sounded, and as it were A GREAT MOUNTAIN BURNING WITH FIRE WAS CAST INTO THE SEA (i.e., the Mediterranean): and the third part of the sea became blood; And the third part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed. And the third angel sounded, and THERE FELL A GREAT STAR (aster) FROM HEAVEN, BURNING as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers (probably the Tigris and Euphrates, because Babylon will be totally destroyed), and upon the fountains of waters; And the name of the star is called WORMWOOD (meaning bitterness; it is Satan's home): and the third part of the waters became wormwood; and many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter. And the fourth angel sounded, and the third part of the sun was smitten, and the third part of the moon, and the third part of the stars; so as the third part of them was darkened, and the day shone not for a third part of it, and the night likewise. And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!"

Eze. 38:18-20 says, "And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that MY FURY shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy and in the fire of MY WRATH have I spoken, Surely in that day (the Day of God's Wrath) there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel; So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and ALL THE MEN THAT ARE UPON THE FACE OF THE EARTH, SHALL SHAKE AT MY PRESENCE (paniym, face, i.e., the Sign of the Son of Man will be seen in the sky), and the mountains (i.e., asteroids) shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and EVERY WALL SHALL FALL TO THE GROUND". The cities of the nations will be shambles.

Rev 16:18-20 says, "And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was A GREAT EARTHQUAKE, SUCH AS WAS NOT SINCE MEN WERE UPON THE EARTH, SO MIGHTY AN EARTHQUAKE, and so great. And the great city (Jerusalem) was divided into three parts, and THE CITIES OF THE NATIONS FELL: AND GREAT BABYLON CAME IN REMEMBRANCE BEFORE GOD, TO GIVE UNTO HER THE CUP OF THE WINE OF THE FIERCENESS OF HIS WRATH. And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found."

Isa. 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here? (Babylon) and whom hast thou here (the Satan-possessed False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he (Satan) that heweth him out a sepulchre on high, AND THAT GRAVETH AN HABITATION FOR HIMSELF IN A ROCK? (i.e., the asteroid Wormwood). Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. HE WILL SURELY VIOLENTLY TURN AND TOSS THEE LIKE A BALL INTO A LARGE COUNTRY (not tiny Israel): there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down."

Of that Day of the Lord that is also the Day of God's Wrath and the Day of the Judgment Seat of Christ, Rev. 11:15-18 says, "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and HE SHALL REIGN FOR EVER AND EVER. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come (the Second Coming is 7 months future, Eze. 39:12,13); because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and THY WRATH IS COME, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged (at the Judgment Seat of Christ), and that thou shouldest GIVE REWARD UNTO THY SERVANTS the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; AND SHOULDEST DESTROY THEM WHICH DESTROY THE EARTH."

All this and more takes place on Jesus' Long Day, of which Joshua's Long Day was a type. Jesus' name from the Hebrew is Joshua. The type is perfect. The asteroid impacts will turn the Earth upside down.

Rev 11:15-19 says, "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and THY WRATH IS COME, and the time of the dead, that they should be JUDGED, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an EARTHQUAKE, and great hail."

> > Rev 6:17 "For the great day of their wrath has come -- (this is the WARNING that the 'impending wrath of God' is about TO COME)

It means what it says, it "HAS COME."

> > THE FOLLOWING ARE THE EVENTS THAT OCCUR AT MID-TRIBULATION: (before the Wrath of God begins)

They take place in one long day.

> > Rev 7:1 "After this I saw -- ( the 144,000 are sealed BEFORE the Wrath of God begins)

The Day of God's Wrath has come. Then the Pre-Wrath Rapture takes place. Afterward, the two asteroids impact Earth and the worldwide earthquake destroys all the world's cities.

> > I think that a likely date for the second rapture would be approximately mid-tribulation Pentecost 2012, which would be four months prior to Feast of Trumpets 2012.

I think the Rapture of the Tribulation saints will be on the Feast of Trumpets, Sept. 14, 2015.

Dan 8:13,14 says, "How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice (i.e., the 1st half of the Tribulation), and the transgression of desolation (Mid-Trib), to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? (i.e., during the last half of the Tribulation) And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed."

The only time in the near future that there are 2300 days between two feasts is between the Feast of Pentecost on May 29, 2009 and the Feast of Trumpets in 2015, and that is by inclusive reckoning because it is a block of time. Running time is not counted inclusively. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Rosh ha Shana and the Rapture

Marilyn, I check your website often for your new posts.

I am so glad you have changed your mind and now believe the Rapture will occur on Rosh ha Shana! I love reading about the Feasts and all the other wonderful information Messianic Jews have.

I especially enjoy www.ariel.org/ which I found a few weeks ago Have you read the book Our Father Abraham written by Marvin Wilson? He teaches that Jewish things can not be taught but must be caught. He is not Jewish but teaches on these things at a college on the N.E. coast. One interesting thing I remember from classes in the 80's is that the scripture saying God wrote His name in the earth-- and that---the letter for His Name is actually the shape of Israel/Jerusalem. It is so exciting, isn't it, the things of God? So many wonderful things available to learn about Him and His people. His people to be known for their love for one another. I have heard atheists say this and they laugh for we do not see much of that. We see lots of disagreements, bickering, jealousy, lies, and deceit. You show forth all the years you have put into learning all you can and sharing what you know without cost to all who visit your website. That is no small thing.

There are so many who claim they are Christian who do not want to know Jewish things. They do not pray for Israel or the Jewish people. Some who claim they are Christian do not believe The Ten Commandments apply for today and I was amazed to learn this.

I am not Jewish but the Lord spoke to me in early 1987 to learn about Jewish things. I learned that everything throughout the O.T. and the N.T. is all about Jesus. I spent my time with Him and getting to know Him and His Word. I was sent to church as a child and when I met Him for myself I fell in love. I have never been the same. I am sure you know whereof I speak. Those who walk away, I am convinced they never really knew Him, if they did, I believe is impossible to turn from Him.

Know the song?= Can I have this Dance (for the rest of my life would you be my partner every night when we're together it seems so right can I have this dance for the rest of my life). This life, this dance would not be the same without Him, would it? I taught my 5 grands that they must spend their time on something, why not on Him?

I know you have done that with all your might, like David who danced before the Lord.

Those who love Him want to learn all they can about Him and His Family. Due to all my medical problems and my condition at present I may not be here to make the Rapture before I die but I strive to live so that I will make the Rapture in either event. Whenever it happens we want to be included. Not because I have done so well because I have done nothing well!!, but because I have loved Him so much for so long, I want to have pleased Him enough to make it. I used to say I want to please Him in everything, then I prayed if I can just please Him in some things, later I said if I can just please Him in ONE thing. Many years passed between each of these. Of course, we all who love Him want to please Him, that has been the only desire of my heart always. To please God. Wow, what an honor that would be, wouldn't it? I never asked for anything more than this. He is coming and His reward is with Him-----HE IS THE REWARD....

My reply

Thanks for your kind words. I do change my mind in a flash when I find something different in Scripture. I think the Bible is 100% true in its original editions. There are a few errors in translation, but very few, and we have other translations as a double check. We have good concordances to look up the original words, and there is much to be learned by looking them up. There are types and antitypes to understand. The meaning of names helps. At one time in my studies, I looked up all the names. There is so much information in the Bible, God had to inspire it. No man could have done it by his own knowledge. The more we know about the Bible, the more we can find out. There seems to be no end to what we can learn. When we get to Heaven and learn more, we will probably say, "Now why didn't I see that" many times.

I haven't read Our Father Abraham written by Marvin Wilson, but I have enjoyed reading what Fruchtenbaum has written. Agape

Her reply

Thanks for the info, Marilyn. You know when I heard Rosh ha Shana called the day no man knows by the Jews my ears went up. There was a book at that time (late 1980's, I believe) which had a picture of the crown made for Jesus to wear when He is crowned by the Jews, also pictures of items made for the Temple they will build, etc. This great falling away and people being deceived has affected many I know and the churches turning more to the new age than I would ever have believed. Few, in my opinion, will be in the pre-trib Rapture. Many have turned away from this belief. When I would talk with people on certain subjects, would cause their eyes to glaze over and they stared, not hearing what I was saying. Then when I finished they took up where we had left off, it was striking to me at the time. I may be wrong about many things, Marilyn, but I believe He is coming for those watching for Him in this particular event, and one must believe it.

People say do not teach this to people, they might lose hope and keep them from believing. What? You would have to believe with no roots at all in my opinion. If I believe and am disappointed I have lost nothing. However, if I do not believe in this pre-trib Rapture and it takes place, I will have lost much. A friend said this hurts believers who if it does not take place.....oh, my. I believe it with all my heart. Why do people fight it so? Especially hateful are those who speak against date setters, I rather think God loves them the more, why? Because you love Him and must find out all you can, especially when He comes for His Bride of which we all who love Him want to be a part. One's Wedding Day! Who would not rejoice and look forward to such a wonderful thing? So what if they miss it (date), to keep trying shows something to me and certainly He takes notice. We are to be known for our LOVE for one another. There is no love in putting down one who is part of the body of Christ. Scripture is argued, it only says we will not know the day or the hour---well, Rosh ha Shana, 48 hours long. People are so offended by anyone naming a date. Since God uses His Feasts for a purpose and they are to be celebrated forever why would He not use His Feast Days. I am shocked at those who claim to be believers do not believe in the Feasts, I have learned recently many do not believe in The Ten Commandments, have no love for the Jews or for Israel. It is true I do not go out much, I am unable to attend church, I am homebound for the most part.

I have recently moved to this area as I have two daughters living in this area due to being transfered. My medical problems are many and growing worse daily as is my husband. I so look forward to the Rapture. One lady told me a few years ago when I attended church that I was selfish to want Him to come, there are so many who need to be saved. What is wrong with wanting to be with the one you love?...Did you get to read on the website I sent to you about the Prince of Jordan, 42nd prophet from Mohammed while Jesus was the 42nd prophet from Abraham? That was on J.R. Church's website. I will look for you in that wonderful place, Marilyn. I believe we will take what we know, take our relationship with Him with us as well............ah, I pray will be soon. I desire to make the Rapture and who knows, may very well be this year! I am sorry to say so but I believe many are so satisfied with their lives here and love it so, they do not want it to end. They are having such a good time. What would we enjoy more than being with Him? Marilyn, it thrills my heart to hear or read others who show and tell their love for Him. I can think of nothing more that I love to speak about.

I do not know the things you know. I do long to learn more about Him and His Family. Spending time with Him, with those who love to speak of Him, that is my idea of a good time. In Him

My reply to Bruce Warner's post, "NOW HERE IS SOMETHING TO CONSIDER!!!" on Five Doves site

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/june2008/brucew61-2.htm

> > 'Jubilee 50th Year' 2016

That would fit perfectly with my date for the Second Advent - Nisan 1, 5776 (April 9, 2016, the anniversary on our calendar of the resurrection of Jesus Christ on April 9, 30 AD (Sunday, Nisan 16, 3790). However, so far, I haven't been able to justify it. Maybe you can help me see it.

> > "THE NUMBER 42 INDICATES THE COMING OF CHRIST!"

How? 2016 - 42 = 1974. I know that 7 is God's number of perfection and completion, and that 42 is a multiple of 7. I know that there were 42 generations between David and Christ (Mt. 1:17), and that a generation there is 48.33 years. June 5, 1967, when Israel grew leaves in the Six-Day War, plus 48.33 years is 2015 plus 4 months. I think the Pre-Wrath Rapture will take place on Tishri 1, 5776 (Sept. 14, 2015). The 4 months could be June, July, August and September (or Iyar, Tamuz, Av and Elul). Is there anything else I am missing?

Here is the way I think. The Jubilee cycle is 49 years; thus it stays aligned with the Sabbatic Cycle. It has to stay aligned, because the last year of the cycle must always be a Sabbatic Year. The 50th year is also the 1st year of the next cycle.

The Jewish 3787 (27 AD) was a Sabbatic Year. It divides by 7 equally, as does 5768 (2007/2008). I believe 28 AD (3788), the first year of Jesus' ministry, was a Jubilee year. The Messiah had reached his 30th birthday on the Feast of Trumpets in 27 AD, and began to teach from that point on. The 483 years of Daniel ended in 27 AD. The last 7 years of the 490 years (the Tribulation) is still future.

I believe that 10 days after Jesus' birthday on the Feast of Trumpets, on the Day of Atonement in 27 AD, Jesus read Isa. 61:1 in the synagogue in Nazareth as his way of announcing that the following year, starting Nisan 1, would be a Jubilee Year.

Luke 4:16-21 says, "he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read. And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, The Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives, and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at LIBERTY them that are bruised, TO PREACH THE ACCEPTABLE YEAR OF THE LORD (i.e., the Jubilee, 28 AD). And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears."

The Sabbatic 27 AD + 49 years = 76 AD, etc. Thus
1889 was a Sabbatic Year and 1890 was the Jubilee
1938 was a Sabbatic Year and 1939 was the Jubilee
1987 was a Sabbatic Year and 1988 was the Jubilee
2036 will be a Sabbatic Year and 2037 will be the Jubilee

How can it be otherwise? Could a new series start when Israel took the Temple Mount in the Six-Day War?

1967 + 49 years = 2016. Maybe Jesus will announce the Jubilee on the Day of Atonement in 2016. Thus, the Jubilee would start Nisan 1, 5777 (our 2017).

That seems reasonable if the Second Advent will be on Nisan 1, 2016 (Saturday, April 9, 5776), as I think it will be.

It seems to me that the Tribulation will start May 29, 2009 (Sivan 6, 5769). It lasts 2300 days, so it would end on the Feast of Trumpets, Sept. 14, 2015 (Tishri 1, 5776). Dan. 8:13,14 says, "Then I heard one saint speaking, and another saint said unto that certain saint which spake, How long shall be the vision concerning the daily sacrifice, and the transgression of desolation, to give both the sanctuary and the host to be trodden under foot? And he said unto me, Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed."

If the Feast of Trumpets, Tishri 1, 5776 (Sept. 14, 2015) is the Day of God's Wrath and the Gog/Magog attack on Israel, as I think it will be, Jesus would return after another 7 months, on Nisan 1, 5776 (Saturday, April 9, 2016, the anniversary of his Resurrection on our calendar).

Eze. 39:13,14 says, "And seven months shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified (i.e., at the Second Advent), saith the Lord GOD."

It wouldn't be unreasonable to think that Jesus would announce a Jubilee Year on the Day of Atonement in 2016. That way, Armageddon would be over, and the Jubilee would start the following Nisan 1, 5777 (March 28, 2017). What do you think? Agape

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