Pro and Con 1444

Posted 11-1-08


An unusual black butterfly found in Polynesia

Incoming e-mail, Re: September 14th

You write:
The Pre-Trib Rapture is as the days of Noah. He entered the Ark on Cheshvan 17. The Pre-Wrath Rapture is as the days of Lot. I think that will be on the Feast of Trumpets, Sept. 14, 2015...Jesus will be revealed when men see the sign of the Son of man on the Feast of Trumpets...Before God's wrath is poured out on Earth that day, the Tribulation saints will be taken to Heaven. God will wipe away their tears.

I have written to you before about the “sign” that has appeared in the heavens on several occasions, most notably to Constantine before the Battle of the Milvian Bridge in AD312 – this “sign” was nothing other than the CROSS of Christ!

The interesting coincidence with your speculation about the coming timetable of events is that each year the Orthodox Church keeps the date of September 14th as the Feast of the Exaltation of the Holy and Life-giving Cross. The Roman Catholics, even after they departed from the Apostolic Faith by asserting the universal jurisdiction of the Pope (Papalism) and changing the Creed, nevertheless they continued to keep this date of commemoration of the Holy Cross. Also, Anglicans and Lutherans keep the 14th of September as a commemoration of the Holy Cross; as do some other Protestants. So, in spite of the numerous attempts of Satan to destroy the Church by rending it with divisions and by seeding it with false doctrines, he has failed to obliterate the commemoration of September 14th as a day upon which the majority of Christians in the world celebrate the Holy Cross of Christ.

Therefore, I believe that on the Feast of Trumpets, Setember 14th, 2015, the “sign” that will be revealed to all the world will be the same as that image shown to Constantine: the glorious, Holy, and Life-giving Cross of Christ Jesus. The words that appeared to Constantine as he gazed upon the image of the Cross, I believe, will also appear with the vision of the Cross in 2015. Those words are: “in hoc signo vinces” – “By This Sign Conquer” – and, indeed, to all those who gaze upon the Cross of Christ and profess Jesus as Lord and God, they WILL conquer! God is “faithful and true” – and throughout history, He has never failed us or left us as orphans. Those who stand and gaze upon the Cross on that Last and Great Day could well be moved to join voices and sing aloud to all the universe that wonderful Protestant hymn: “Lift high the Cross, the Love of Christ proclaim; and all the world adore His sacred Name!” Amen.

Come, Lord Jesus. Your friend and brother in our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ Christ is in our midst!

My reply

> > The interesting coincidence with your speculation about the coming timetable of events is that each year the Orthodox Church keeps the date of September 14th as the Feast of the Exaltation of the Holy and Life-giving Cross.

Thank you so much for this information. I'm delighted. I had no idea. My parents attended a Lutheran Church 5 years, but I was of pre-school age, too young to know that they honored the cross on Sept. 14.

It is thrilling to find out that the Feast of the Exaltation of the Holy and Life-giving Cross is Sept. 14. Praise the Lord. Things are coming together. In 2015, Sept. 14 is also the Feast of Trumpets. I'm certain that the Lord planned that before the world began. I'm convinced that it will be the day the Sign of the Son of Man will be seen in the sky. They will see him on his throne. That is his Coronation Day. It would be the perfect time to also see the cross in the sky behind him. That is not the Second Advent, which will follow in 7 months (Eze. 38:12,13).

What does Scripture say about this Sign?

In Mt 24:29-31, Jesus said, "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened (there will be a solar eclipse after 6 PM on Sept 13, so it will be the 14th to the Jews), and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the SIGN OF THE SON OF MAN in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and THEY SHALL SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING IN THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN WITH POWER AND GREAT GLORY. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a TRUMPET, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of HEAVEN (i.e., those previously caught up in the Pre-Trib Rapture) to the other."

Mark 13:23-27 says, "But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things. But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. And THEN SHALL THEY SEE THE SON OF MAN COMING IN THE CLOUDS WITH GREAT POWER AND GLORY. And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH (this is the Pre-Wrath Rapture) to the uttermost part of HEAVEN."

Luke 17:22-24, 29,30 says, "And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see ONE OF THE DAYS OF THE SON OF MAN (i.e., the days of the two Raptures), and ye shall not see it (i.e., the 1st DAY OF THE SON OF MAN). And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them. For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day....But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even THUS SHALL IT BE IN THE DAY WHEN THE SON OF MAN IS REVEALED."

Rev 6:14-17 says, "And THE HEAVEN DEPARTED AS A SCROLL WHEN IT IS ROLLED TOGETHER; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from THE FACE OF HIM THAT SITTETH ON THE THRONE, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?"

That day, Tishri 1, 5776, Monday, Sept. 14, 2015, seems locked in place. The Sign of the End of the Age was the Six-Day War of 1967. It couldn't be later than that, because Israel was 19, the last year her branch (klados, a young tender shoot, broken off for grafting) could be considered tender (apalos, soft, tender, i.e., young). A generation from that year is the end of the age. The longest we can count as a generation is 48 years (Mt. 1:17). 1967 + 48 = 2015. I remembers another Black Monday, October 19, 1987, when stock markets around the world crashed. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Marilyn, tell me what you think

I keep feeling the moment is near. Truly, very near. More and more people seem to be "tuned in" to the fact that the first rapture is near. More and more people are asking me questions about the Two Feet of the Body of Christ. Recently I wrote a follow up. Let me know what you think. Looking up! Bruce Baber

Bible Parallels: How God Chose to Teach Us
By Bruce Baber

According to the Ancient Hebrew Research Center, Judaic poetry was composed using parallels. Not the meter and rhyme that we are used to. Here's just one example out of the thousands that occur in our Bible. Psalm 119: "Your word is a lamp to my feet and a light to my path." Lamp to my feet" and "light to my path" are parallel ways of saying the same thing. Now look at a familiar Bible story. Joseph who was sold into slavery by his brothers. Notice the parallels in this story with the events in the life of Jesus:

Son of a wealthy, loving father/ shepherd/ each given a special coat/ taken to Egypt/ became a servant/ ministry began at thirty/ filled with the Spirit/ gave bread to the hungry/ resisted temptations/ prophesied/ falsely accused/ condemned between two prisoners/ one prisoner saved and one was not/ Joseph married a gentile woman before seven years of famine and Jesus taking his bride before the seven years of tribulation.

In all, there about twenty parallels in the lives of Joseph and Jesus. A number of scholars have written and preached on the similarities. Clearly there is a pattern used in both Judaic poetry and the familiar stories of the Bible. It is the pattern of parallels.

Take a look now at other Bible parallels. Some are reverse parallels. I sometimes call them inverted parallels. Adam and Second Adam/ expulsion from paradise and entrance to paradise/ creation of Eve and creation of a new bride/ shedding of blood to cover nakedness and shedding of blood to cover sin.

Are you beginning to see how God consistently uses parallels in His divinely inspired word? God uses parallels throughout the Bible and we have only to look for them to understand the truth! Now look at parallels to the rapture. In fact we will find two!

Enoch. We find him raptured way back in Genesis. He is the first one to have ever been taken away. He goes for a walk with God one day and he is taken to Heaven. Without preamble or warning Enoch is simply taken away. But, there is a second picture of a rapture and it really is nothing like what happened to Enoch.

Elijah. Elijah's life perfectly represents the church of the persecution during the Tribulation. At various times he had to go into hiding. He was persecuted by King Ahab and his wife Jezebel who participated in the vilest forms of idolatry. Of special interest is the fact that during a period of about three years, there was a severe drought and famine. He had to leave his country and live with a widow who miraculously supplied him with food. On another occasion, Elijah was supplied with food by ravens. Later, he was helped by an angel who provided food and water. At various times, Elijah would say he was the only believer left. He is clearly aware that he will be taken away by a rapture event.

We have two different pictures of rapture events that may very well give us insight into the fact that there will be two upcoming raptures for followers of Christ. I discern that a group of Christians will be taken away before the full onset of the tribulation and that a second group will depart probably midway through. The second group won’t be able to buy or sell, they will be forced from their homes and depend on miraculous provision from God. They too may feel like they are the only true believers who are left. However, they are not alone. God will not abandon them just as he did not abandon Elijah. Moreover, the persecuted Christians will have the same source of strength that Elijah had. They will receive the Holy Spirit. The Amplified Bible calls the Holy Spirit the Comforter, Counselor, Helper, Intercessor, Advocate, Strengthener, and Standby. What is the difference between the “Enoch” group who goes in the pre-tribulation rapture and the “Elijah” group who goes in a second rapture midway through? I believe Jesus gives us the answer.

Read Matthew 25: 1-13.

Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there not be enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. Afterward came also the other virgins, saying Lord, Lord , open to us. But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

These virgins are pictured as waiting for the bridegroom to take them to the wedding. Their lamps have oil which represents the Holy Spirit. Five had their lamps filled and were prepared. Five were left behind.

Now read Luke 12: 35-38.

35 "Be dressed ready for service and keep your lamps burning, 36 like men waiting for their master to return from a wedding banquet, so that when he comes and knocks they can immediately open the door for him. 37 It will be good for those servants whose master finds them watching when he comes. I tell you the truth, he will dress himself to serve, will have them recline at the table and will come and wait on them. 38 It will be good for those servants whose master finds them ready, even if he comes in the second or third watch of the night.

In Luke, the story is about servants who are waiting for the master to return from a wedding. They aren’t virgins waiting for a bridegroom. Considering the pattern of parallels, this scripture should give us reason to ponder.

Consider two other figures. Abraham and Lot.

Abraham is called away from Sodom well before catastrophe. Lot is called out with only minutes or hours to spare before God's judgement falls.

If you want to read more, see my paper "The Two Feet of the Body of Christ." http://prophecycorner.com/agee/baber.html

My reply

> > tell me what you think

It has only taken me 48 years to put this together, and it was right under my nose all the time.

I think the Rapture will be Cheshvan 17, 5769 (Nov. 15, 2008). We can know the day but not the hour. Jesus said, "THE DAY THAT NOE ENTERED INTO THE ARK...SO SHALL ALSO THE COMING OF THE SON OF MAN BE." Noah entered the Ark on Cheshvan 17.

Gen 7:11-13 says, "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month (Cheshvan/Heshvan), the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights. In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark". Noah died 2 years before Abraham was born. Until the Israelites were at Mt. Sinai, Tishri was the first month, Cheshvan the second.

In Mt. 24:36, Jesus said, "But of that DAY AND HOUR knoweth no man. Then in verses 42 and 44, he dropped the DAY, and just said HOUR. All along, we have been able to know the day, but not the hour. We just didn't read it carefully enough.

In Mt. 24:32-44, Jesus said, "Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch (klados, scion broken off for grafting, i.e., modern Israel) is yet tender (apalos, young, i.e., no more than 19, as she was in 1967), and putteth forth leaves (Gaza Strip, Sinai, West Bank, Golen Heights in Six-Day War of 1967), ye know that summer is nigh (the war started June 5; summer started June 21): So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it (the kingdom of God; Luke 21:31) is near, even at the doors (symbol of the 2 Raptures). Verily I say unto you, This generation (born in 1967) shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. (1967 + 48 [Mt 1:17] = 2015, Feast of Trumpets Sept. 14, 2015; Tishri 1, 5776) Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away. But of that DAY AND HOUR knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But AS THE DAYS OF NOE WERE, SO SHALL ALSO THE COMING OF THE SON OF MAN BE. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until THE DAY THAT NOE ENTERED INTO THE ARK, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; SO SHALL ALSO THE COMING OF THE SON OF MAN BE. Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Watch therefore: for ye know not what HOUR your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an HOUR as ye think not the Son of man cometh."

Sept. 14, 2015 seems to be a fixed date. It is the Feast of Trumpets that is also the Day of God's Wrath. The Sign of the End of the Age was the Six-Day War of 1967. 1967 + 48 (a generation, Mt. 1:17) = 2015. The end of the 70th week of Dan. 9:29 cannot be later than 2015.

Counting back 2520 days (7 x 360 = 2520; or 1260 + 1260 = 2520) by Jewish Inclusive Reckoning is Oct. 21, 2008, the 8th day of Tabernacles. That is when the 70th week of Daniel began. Counting forward 220 days brings us to May 29, 2009, Pentecost. That is when the 2300 days of Dan. 8:13,14 begin. From May 29, 2009, we add 2300 days using inclusive reckoning, and it brings us to Sept. 14, 2015.

I have tried every way I can think of to drop this into another calendar slot--with no luck. We are now in the end times when the wise can understand (Dan. 12:10).

To me, the Rapture has to be between Oct. 21, 2008 and May 29, 2009. The only Cheshvan 17 in that span of time is November 15, 2008. That seems to be the only time possible for the Pre-Trib Rapture. The Pre-Wrath Rapture would be on Sept. 14, 2015, the great and terrible Day of the Lord, just before God's Wrath hits the unbelievers left on Earth.

The foolish virgins can't know the day or hour, but the wise virgins can know the day.

In Mark 13:23, Jesus said, "But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things."

The Second Advent would be Nisan 1, 5776, April 9, 2016. Agape

My reply to a Post on Five Doves site: GabriDon End Times

http://www.allaboutpopularissues.org/end-times.htm

> > December 26, 2003 - Iran - A massive earthquake killed more than 30,000 people in Bam, Iran.

> > December 26, 2004 – Off the coast of Northern Sumatra – A 9.0 underwater earthquake devastated the Indian Ocean region with tsunamis that killed over 283,000 people.

Two massive earthquakes on December 26 in two consecutive years - hmmm. That gets my attention. Must be signs of the worldwide earthquake I think will happen on the Feast of Trumpets, 9-14-2015. The dead will lay around the Earth. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Second month

I’m really in doubt about the second month in Noah story being the 2nd month of the Jewish Civil year (Cheshvan) and not the 2nd month of the Biblical year (Iyyar). When the Bible says first month, I always understood it as Nisan. So, shouldn’t the second month (in a Bible story) be Iyyar?

I’m confused.

My reply

Before Ex. 12:2, the first month was Tishri. At Mt. Sinai, God changed it to Nisan. Ex. 12:2 says, "This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you." Agape

Last Trumpet Newsletter

http://www.lasttrumpetministries.org:80/2008/November2008.html

Scientists in California have admitted they are extremely puzzled about three neighboring volcanoes that all erupted at the same time. The scientific experts said it is nearly impossible for that to happen! (43) Strong earthquakes continue to shake the earth repeatedly. There have been nearly three hundred of them in the last thirty days. These include the 6.1 magnitude quake that shook Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands on October 11th, (44) and the 7.0 magnitude quake that was listed as strong and rattled New Zealand on September 29th. The Philippines were also rattled by a quake of 6.1 magnitude on September 27th.

Incoming e-mail, Re: Thank you for your work

I have been blessed by your web site. I hope you’re not discouraged at this point. We know our Savior will be taking us up soon. I wanted to see if you’re aware of Sal Smario’s work. His web site is http://chn-net.com/

I’m not promoting him – I only stumbled upon his stuff in this past week. But his time chart is intriguing. It’s based on the idea that the dead in Christ will be raised at First Fruits (4/12/09), and we will follow 40 days later on Ascension (5/21/09). I’d never encountered this particular “gap theory” before; I don’t know how he reconciles this with our being “caught up together with them in the clouds.” I’ve ordered (but not yet received) his book “The Hidden Truth about the End Times.” Presumably he will attempt to resolve this problem in the book. Certainly there are precedents for unforeseen gaps in Biblical prophetic fulfillment such as the invisible gap in Isaiah 61: 2, the first half of which was fulfilled by our Lord in His earthly ministry (Luke 4:19) with the “vengeance” half to follow when He returns in power and glory.

I’ve attached Smario’s chart, “2009 Timeline.”

Keep at it, dear sister. I am grateful for the labor you have put into this and for your love for His appearing.

May our Lord bless you richly

My reply

Thanks for your kind words. I don't agree with Sal.

Look at the new post at the top of my Home Page. WE CAN KNOW THE DAY, AND HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SINCE THE FIRST CENTURY. It is in Scripture. We just didn't read it with understanding. I don't think it was meant to be understood until the due season had arrived. This alone shows us how close we are now. Agape

Shimon Peres to be knighted by Queen Elizabeth

Friday, October 24, 2008 Israel Today Staff
http://www.israeltoday.co.il/default.aspx?tabid=178&nid=17392

Israeli media reported this week that the Israeli Embassy in London and Buckingham Palace are close to an agreement on having Queen Elizabeth confer honorary knighthood on Israeli President Shimon Peres when he visits the UK next month.

The appointment would make Peres a Knight Commander in the Order of St. Michael and St. George, a title usually reserved for British colonial affairs officials, foreign-service officers and high-ranking diplomats in Commonwealth countries.

However, the Queen has on numerous occasions appointed foreigners to the Order. Among some of the more famous are Bill Gates and former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani.

The honorary nature of the appointment means Peres would not be entitled to prefix "Sir" before his name.

Israeli Foreign Ministry sources cited by The Jerusalem Post warned that the Israeli media's focus on the story could prevent Peres from being knighted during his upcoming visit, as opponents of the move will now try to scuttle it.

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