Pro and Con 1448

Posted 11-12-08

Prayer request

For the healing and well being of Harland Williams, who has been in the hospital 6 weeks, after a very bad fall on concrete steps, badly damaging the bones in his neck.

Incoming e-mail, Re: very important and very urgent! Please read

ive been doing some research and read what u wrote
http://www.prophecycorner.com/agee/cherub.html iv stumbled across somthing and realized u have 2 only i think u didnt realize it my research on it is more exstence but i need ur help with a couple things and once iv gatherd enough information i will send u what ive found. U wrote in ezekiels vision of four cherubim. That u got a picture of earths orbit. Can u send me that picture? And if not where can i see it? Please help me with this im so close 2 being done but i need to see that picture....p.s email me back amediatly

My reply

Here are two pictures I found.

In Eze. 1, Ezekiel saw the Sun and the 4 terrestrial planets plus Saturn, which was above those 4. He described their concentric orbits as wheels within wheels.

It took me over 7 years of intensive study to figure out what these cherubims that Ezekiel saw represented. I read about an 18" stack of books a week from BIOLA's Seminary Collection for those 7 years without finding any author who convinced me he/she knew what these 4 things represented -- certainly not some kind of angel. After all, Ezekiel said, "THE HEAVENS WERE OPENED, AND I SAW VISIONS OF GOD" It turned out to be the God/Man Jesus Christ sitting on his throne.

This vision ties in with Genesis 3:24, which says, "So he drove out the man; and he placed at the east of the garden of Eden Cherubims, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the way of (or to) the tree of life."

The first glimmer of understanding came when I realized that the fire enfolding itself was the Sun. Eze 1:4 says, "And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and A FIRE ENFOLDING ITSELF, and a brightness (nogahh, brilliant shining, i.e., sunlight) was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire."

Verse 15 told me that one of these flying things in Ezekiel's vision of the sky was the Earth. It says, "Now as I beheld the living creatures (lively things), behold ONE WHEEL (ophan, revolve, i.e., orbit) UPON THE EARTH by the living creatures, with his four faces" (i.e., four directions it faces as it orbits).

If one is the Earth, the other three are also planets, Mercury, Venus and Mars, the terrestrial planets.

Above their heads, i.e., farther out in space, was Saturn. Eze 1:26-28 says, "And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a SAPPHIRE stone (sapphire means dear to the planet Saturn, from the Sanskrit Sani, Saturn, and priya, dear): and upon the likeness of the THRONE was the likeness as the appearance of a MAN (the Man/God Jesus Christ) above upon it. And I saw as the colour of amber (Saturn has amber on it), as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins (from the equator) even upward, and from the appearance of his loins (from the equator) even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about (Saturn's encircling rings). As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about (both are seen when sunlight hits ice crystals). This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD" (i.e., Christ is the LORD (YHWH) of hosts, the redeemer, in Isa. 44:6).

Jesus was born on the Feast of Trumpets in September. His birthstone is the blue sapphire. It still means Heaven today. Agape

Post on Five Doves site: "Thank You Marilyn Agee"

Jean Stepnoski (8 Nov 2008) "Thank You Marilyn Agee"
http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/nov2008/jeans118.htm

Thank you Marilyn for your informative and kind respose to my study of Genesis, Chapter 7. I believe that Cheshvan 10 to 17 is certainly more important than from 3 to 10. It is, of course, the culmination of those long 120 years of obedience in faithfulness to the sure message of things to come. I eagerly await Cheshvan 10 to 17 this year. I appreciate even more your interpretation of why Cheshvan is the 2nd month in the autumn rather than the spring. Thank you for your articles and books at five doves and Prophesy Corner, Marilyn. You have long been an inspiration for the doves in the sin darkened world! With Love and Shalom

My reply

Thank you for all your well-thought-out posts too. They are very informative.

Incoming e-mail, Re: We can know the day

I hope so, but if it's that obvious then why didn't Jesus know the day? And why would he (how could He) give a clue about something that He didn't know??

My reply

At that time, no mere man knew the day or hour.

Jesus was not in that category. As both God and man, he knew the day. He was the creator, and had planned everything before the world began. Therefore, he could give us the clue he did. All Scripture is God-breathed. Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Tim McHyde's book, Know the future

Have you read his book and what are your thoughts regarding the book?

My reply

I haven't read Tim McHyde's books, "Know the Future: a Bible Prophecy Breakthrough" or "Planet X In Bible Prophecy".

I have studied astronomy enough that I don't believe that there is a planet X coming near Earth. As much as the astronomers try to see things out beyond Pluto, there is no way they could miss a planet coming near Earth.

It only takes an asteroid .7 of a mile wide to shatter the Earth to pieces like what happened to the planet Rahab. The Tribulation is shortened or no flesh would be saved (Mt. 24:22). The only thing I can think of here is that the incoming asteroid will hit the Earth at an oblique angle, turning the globe upside down, and that if it made a direct hit later on, no flesh would be saved.

I believe that the asteroid Wormwood that Satan lives on will impact the Earth, but it is not a planet. It is a piece of Satan's planet Rahab that was split apart forming our Asteroid Belt.

Isa. 51:9 says, "Awake, awake, put on strength, O arm of the LORD (i.e., the Son of God); awake, as in the ancient days, in the generations of old. Art thou not it that hath cut (lit., split) Rahab, and wounded the dragon (Satan)?"

Isa. 22:16-19 says, "What hast thou here? (Babylon III) and whom hast thou here (the Satan-possessed False Prophet), that thou hast hewed thee out a sepulchre here, as he (Satan) that heweth him out A SEPULCHRE ON HIGH, AND THAT GRAVETH AN HABITATION FOR HIMSELF IN A ROCK (i.e., the asteroid Wormwood)? Behold, the LORD will carry thee away with a mighty captivity, and will surely cover thee. HE WILL SURELY VIOLENTLY TURN AND TOSS THEE LIKE A BALL INTO A LARGE COUNTRY (where Babylon III is rebuilt on the site of the Tower of Babel, not tiny Israel): there shalt thou die, and there the chariots of thy glory shall be the shame of thy lord's house. And I will drive thee from thy station, and from thy state shall he pull thee down."

To see what else he believes, I searched for Tim McHyde on Google, and found these things he said.

http://www.escapeallthesethings.com/2015-blood-eclipses.htm
> > "Know the Future: a Bible Prophecy Breakthrough"

> > Blood Moons of Jesus Return in 2015? Mark Biltz Theory Debunked"

> > But when you do accept them at face value, you come to the conclusion that the Bible is making a veiled prediction that earth's orbit would change enough from Wormwood to go from 365¼ to 360 days and along with it the month from 29½ to 30 days ( the lengthening of the lunar cycle is a predictable natural result of the earth orbiting the sun slightly faster).

For me, I don't believe that Earth's month and year will change permanently. When the two asteroids of Rev. 8:8-11 impact Earth, the globe will be turned upside down on Jesus' Long Day (of which Joshua's Long Day was a type), but it will right itself after awhile.

> > Wormwood is a literal star that will pass our solar system

I don't believe it is a star, just an asteroid.

http://www.escapeallthesethings.com/planet-x-nibiru-wormwood.htm
> > Is it possible that in believing a pretrib rapture that you, like Chuck, have also not yet taken the words of Jesus literally enough when he said "after the tribulation of those days" in reference to the rapture of the elect (a label for the Church used throughout the New Testament)?

> > This chronology of the end times lets us know exactly what is going to happen step by step, in order, and where to be to survive each. It reveals the future of modern nations including Israel and the United States of America and which will survive World War III and which won't (yes, the USA's fate in nuclear WWIII is on the Bible's timeline, as shocking as that is...

I don't believe that. The only statement in the Bible that is about the United States seems to be 2 Samuel 7:23. It says, "And what one (echad, UNITED) NATION in the earth is like thy people, even like Israel, whom God went to redeem for a people to himself, and to make him a name, and to do for you great things and terrible, for thy land, before thy people, which thou redeemedst to thee from Egypt, from the nations and their gods?"

The first settlers to set sail for this land came to be free to worship God as they chose. Lincoln aptly called us "this nation, under God". Our dollar bills still say "In God we trust". I think God saw to it that we are called the United States so we could understand 2 Samuel 7:23. Tiny Israel needed a friend among the nations that would "speak softly and carry a big stick," as Teddy Roosevelt said.

> > Discover what major prophetic event is really next (hint: it's not the rapture).

> > there are several frightening events that Bible prophecy states must happen to the Earth—before the rapture"

I think the next major prophetic event is the Pre-Trib Rapture. Luke 21:36 says, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy TO ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS THAT SHALL COME TO PASS, AND TO STAND BEFORE THE SON OF MAN."

What many people fail to realize is that there are two Raptures, one before the 2300-day shortened Tribulation, the other, the Pre-Wrath Rapture, on the last day of that Tribulation.

The first Rapture is for the Bride of Christ. The last Rapture is for the Tribulation saints.

The Bride of Christ saints are seen in Heaven in Rev. 5:9,10. It says, "they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood OUT OF EVERY KINDRED, AND TONGUE, AND PEOPLE, AND NATION; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on (epi, on or over) the earth."

The Tribulation saints are seen in Heaven in Rev. 7:0,14,15: "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, OF ALL NATIONS, AND KINDREDS, AND PEOPLE, AND TONGUES, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands...THESE ARE THEY WHICH CAME OUT OF GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple".

The Bride wears white. At the time of the Rapture, the Bride saints have on white robes. They are ready, because they have used I John 1:9 and confessed their sins.

The Tribulation saints have to confess their sins committed after they accepted Christ to wash their spotted robes in the blood of Christ to make them white. All old sins are wiped off the slate when we accept Christ as our own personal Saviour. All sins committed after that have to be confessed. That is why Jesus washed Peter's feet.

In John 13:3-10, Jesus explained foot washing. "Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God; He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself. After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded. Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet? Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter. Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, IF I WASH THEE NOT, THOU HAST NO PART WITH ME. Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean".

Luke 12:46 says, "The lord of that servant (the foolish one) will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him his portion (the shortened Tribulation) with the unbelievers."

Mt. 24:51 adds, "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion (the shortened Tribulation) with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Of the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture, Rev 17:12-14 says, "And the ten horns which thou sawest are TEN KINGS, WHICH HAVE RECEIVED NO KINGDOM AS YET; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and THEY THAT ARE WITH HIM ARE CALLED, AND CHOSEN, AND FAITHFUL."

The foolish ones not wearing white wedding garments will be cast outside the first Rapture door. Mt. 22:14 says, "For many are called, but few are chosen."

The Bride is "called, and chosen, and faithful." Therefore, she is with Christ before the 10 kings receive their kingdoms. Agape

A post on Five Doves site, Re: Randy Larson (10 Nov 2008) "MULTIPLE RAPTURES"

Two questions I have concerning the concept of more than one rapture: The two passages concerning the rapture with which I am most familiar are in 1st Corinthians 15 and in Paul's two letters to the Thessalonians. The "dead in Christ" are to rise first, prior to the ascension of the living. First: How does that work if you're going to have two or more raptures? Second: Where is the scriptural support for more than one such event?

My reply

As I understand it, the dead in Christ that belong to the Bride-of-Christ group will be raised at the first Rapture. Heb 11:40 says, "God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect."

Those that belong to the Last-Rapture group will be raised at the time of the last Rapture. Dan 12:1,2 says, "And at that time (when the False Prophet is deposed from office; Dan. 11:45) shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a TIME OF TROUBLE, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people (i.e., the 144,000 Israelites; Rev. 7) shall be delivered (malat?, escape), every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

I think the next major prophetic event is the Pre-Trib Rapture. Luke 21:36 says, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy TO ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS THAT SHALL COME TO PASS, AND TO STAND BEFORE THE SON OF MAN." The wise virgins, the Bride of Christ, are to escape ALL the shortened 2300-day Tribulation (Dan. 8:13,14). I think this Tribulation will start next Pentecost, May 29, 2009. Therefore, the Pre-Trib Rapture could take place on the anniversary of the day Noah entered the Ark, Cheshvan 17, Nov. 15 in 2008.

There are two Raptures, one before the 2300-day shortened Tribulation, the other, the Pre-Wrath Rapture, on the last day of that Tribulation. The first Rapture is as the days of Noah. He went into the Ark and the Lord closed the door on Cheshvan 17 (next Saturday, Nov. 15, 2008). I think the Last-trump Rapture will be on the Feast of Trumpets, Sept. 14, 2015 (1967 + 48 [a ganeration, Mt. 1:17] = 2015). That seems to be the Day of God's Wrath.

The last Rapture is as the days of Lot. The same day he left Sodom, destruction by an asteroid impact hit Earth. It split the Earth from Syria to Lake Nyasa in Africa. We call that split the Great Rift Valley. The only other split that can be compared to that one is the Mid-Atlantic Rift.

The first Rapture is for the Bride of Christ. The last Rapture is for the Tribulation saints. I Thess. 4:13-18 is the First Trump Rapture. I Cor. 15:51-54 is the Last Trump Rapture.

FIRST TRUMP

1Thess. 4:13-18 says, "I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren (believers), concerning them which are asleep (i.e., the dead in Christ), that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with THE TRUMP OF GOD (i.e., first trump): and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

These saints are seen in Heaven in Rev. 5:9. It says, "And they sung a NEW SONG, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood OUT OF EVERY KINDRED, AND TONGUE, AND PEOPLE, AND NATION."

Luke 12:46 says, "The lord of that servant (the foolish one) will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder (lit., cut him off), and will appoint him his portion (the shortened Tribulation) with the unbelievers."

Mt. 24:51 adds, "And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion (the shortened Tribulation) with the hypocrites (pretenders): there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."

Of the time of the Pre-Trib Rapture, Rev 17:12-14 says, "And the ten horns which thou sawest are TEN KINGS, WHICH HAVE RECEIVED NO KINGDOM AS YET; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast. These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast. These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and THEY THAT ARE WITH HIM ARE CALLED, AND CHOSEN, AND FAITHFUL."

The foolish ones not wearing white wedding garments will be cast outside the first Rapture door. Mt. 22:14 says, "For many are called, but few are chosen."

The Bride is "called, and chosen, and faithful." Therefore, she is with Christ before the 10 kings receive their kingdoms.

LAST TRUMP

1Cor 15:51-53 says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

The Tribulation saints are seen in Heaven in Rev. 7:0,14,15: "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, OF ALL NATIONS, AND KINDREDS, AND PEOPLE, AND TONGUES, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands...THESE ARE THEY WHICH CAME OUT OF GREAT TRIBULATION, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple".

144,000 of these seem to be added to the Bride of Christ group. The 144,000 are Israelites, and they are the only ones that can sing the NEW SONG at the 2nd Rapture. Rev. 14:3-5 says, "And they sung as it were a NEW SONG before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth. These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins (i.e., wise virgins at the 2nd Rapture). These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb. And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God." It looks like it takes missing the first Rapture to wise them up that Jesus is their Messiah. They seem to be given a 2nd chance, because they are partially blinded until the first Rapture takes place.

The Bride wears white. At the time of the Rapture, the Bride saints have on white robes. They are the Philadelphian church for whom Christ has no words of condemnation. They are ready, because they have used I John 1:9 and confessed their sins. It says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

The Tribulation saints have to confess their sins committed after they accepted Christ to wash their spotted robes in the blood of Christ to make them white. All old sins are wiped off the slate when we accept Christ as our own personal Saviour. All sins committed after that have to be confessed. That is why Jesus washed Peter's feet.

In John 13:3-10, Jesus explained foot washing. "Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God; He riseth from supper, and laid aside his garments; and took a towel, and girded himself. After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded. Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet? Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter. Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, IF I WASH THEE NOT, THOU HAST NO PART WITH ME. Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean". Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: Fwd: 10 day warning?

Way back, on Five Doves (I believe) someone wrote that there would be a "10" day warning because you should add "7" days of the Noah warning and "3" days prior to when Jesus was resurrected (I hope I have this correct.) Of course, we HAVE SEEN MAJOR warnings!!!

Either AS we entered our 11th month (the night of Halloween)...

11/1 PLUS 10 = 11/11

OR....

A 10 day warning from Obama's election when churches and streets were FULL OF REJOICING at MIDNIGHT - 11/4-11/5:

11/4 PLUS 10 = 11/15 or Chesvan 17

http://www.jewfaq.org/current.htm
From:
Ola Ilori (5 Nov 2008)
"6TH TO THE 15TH OF NOVEMBER 2008
(8TH TO THE 17TH CHESVAN***): JUST AS IN THE DAYS OF NOAH"

http://www.fivedoves.com/letters/nov2008/ola115.htm

Ola writes:

...The Day of the Rapture has been hidden in plain sight all along.

...For the Lord said,

..."And as it was in the Days of Noah, so it will be also in the Days of ...the Son of Man; They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were ...given in marriage, until the Day (the 8th of Chesvan) that Noah entered ...the ark, and the flood came (on the 17th of Chesvan) and destroyed ...them all" (Luke 17:26,27)

My reply

> > Ola writes:
> > ...The Day of the Rapture has been hidden in plain sight all along.
> > ...For the Lord said,
> > ..."And as it was in the Days of Noah, so it will be also in the Days of
...the Son of Man; They ate, they drank, they married wives, they were
...given in marriage, until the Day (the 8th of Chesvan) that Noah entere
...the ark, and the flood came (on the 17th of Chesvan) and destroyed
...them all" (Luke 17:26,27)

Noah entered the Ark the last time and the Lord closed the door on 17 Cheshvan. It began to rain that same day.

Gen 7:11-13 says, "In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the SEVENTEENTH DAY of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights. IN THE SELFSAME DAY entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark". Agape

Incoming e-mail, Re: All sins committed after that have to be confessed

I do not believe that you, nor me, nor anyone else can confess every sin since we became Christians. Luther came to that conclusion. Its too vast and too many unknowns. Jesus' blood covers all.

My reply

I John 1:9 says, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness." I take it that the Holy Spirit will bring sins to mind that we need to confess. All unknown or forgotten sins fall under "all unrighteousness." Agape

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