Pro and Con 1452

Posted 12-2-08



The rotation of eclipse dates (Tishri 6, Nisan 6, Tishri 5, Nisan 7, Tishri 6) set this whole sequence apart. It starts and ends on Tishri 6.

6 BC Sep 27 (Tishri 6, 3755) Partial
5 BC Mar 23 (Nisan 6, 3755) Total - BLOOD MOON BEFORE JESUS BORN

5 BC SEPT 4 (probably between 6 PM and midnight on our Sunday) JESUS BORN on the Jewish Monday, Tishri 1, 3756, in the 15th year of Temple construction

5 BC Sep 15 (Tishri 5, 3756) Total - BLOOD MOON AFTER JESUS BORN
4 BC Mar 13 (Nisan 7, 3756) Partial - Herod died between Nisan 7 and 14, Passover
4 BC Sep 05 (Tishri 6, 3757) Partial

Mile-thick glaciers found on Mars

By Lewis Smith, Nov 21, 08

Huge glaciers up to half a mile thick have been discovered close to the equator of Mars and are thought to be the remnants of an ice age on the planet.

The glaciers are thought to have been formed up to 100 million years ago and are the “most dramatic” evidence yet of climate change on Mars.

Hundreds of glaciers have been identified by researchers using ground-penetrating radar that allows them to see through a rocky layer of debris covering the ice.

The biggest of the glaciers are up to 13 miles long and more than 60 miles wide

Sundog and Moondog Gallery

Incoming small asteroid flash


Mark Copfer (24 Nov 2008)

MAP 6.2 2008/11/22 18:49:44 -1.140 -13.896 10.0 NORTH OF ASCENSION ISLAND

MAP 6.3 2008/11/22 16:01:39 -22.524 171.109 48.3 SOUTHEAST OF THE LOYALTY ISLANDS

MAP 6.3 2008/11/22 16:01:00 -4.344 101.243 10.0 SOUTHERN SUMATRA, INDONESIA

"What if it is 234 hours before end of 2008???"

Louis A. Romo (24 Nov 2008)
"your post of "Has the penny finally dropped""

Greeting John, My brother in Jesus Christ, our soon coming Lord and Savior.

I have always thought of the $2.34 point directly to the day..I thought of it as 234 days till or 234 hours or 234 minutes till some time frame pointing to hour of rapture.

What if it is 234 hours before end of 2008??? That would be 9.75 days before December 31st.

Assuming we are talking of the day ending December 31st at sundown, the 9th day would be December 22nd at sundown ..first day of Chanukah.

Subtract 18 hours(3/4 of a day) and that would be right at midnight...the end of the 21st and beginning of 22nd....about 6 hours into Chanukah.

I throw my thoughts out to see what other doves think..........

it would be interesting to see what is the precise hour in Jerusalem of winters arrival on the 21st to see how many minutes before

Louis Romo __

You could be right, Louis!

Planet Has Cooled Since Bush Took Office’ - Gore Admits ‘I’ve failed badly’

Nov 20, 08, Wash. DC - The bad news for global warming alarmists just keeps rolling in....

the planet...began to chill significantly at almost precisely the moment that we signed the Kyoto Protocol, exactly ten years ago today....

2008 is shaping up to be the coolest year in the United States since 1997....

Gore laments global warming efforts: ‘I’ve failed badly’
Washington Post – November 11, 2008
Excerpt: When asked about the goal of his movie “An Inconvenient Truth"--to wake people up to an approaching global, environmental crisis-Gore said “I think it’s been a failure . . . I feel, in a sense, that I’ve failed badly

Incoming e-mail

I do not believe in the "rapture" . The word rapture is not in the bible, but that is probably elementary to you.
You substantiate the rapture with a lot of Scripture.

...I do not even have time to think about a rapture. I check out your website now and then.

Along with your website I check out a few other sites that have the same theme. Rapturists do focus on the Core Truth - The Bible. But what amazes me is that anybody can say anything in anyway at anytime and it is accepted as the truth and even holy. Persons call themselves Reverend, Pastors, Prophets and lack authority.

Anyway you and I will probably die a natural death before any rapture. Well we get to met our Lord either way.

My reply

> > The word rapture is not in the bible

The English word "Trinity" is not in the Bible, either. Yet, the concept is there. Mt 28:19 says, "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name (singular) of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost". It is the same with the Rapture.

1 Thess 4:16,17 (KJV) says, "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall RISE first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP together with them IN THE CLOUDS, TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."

You don't have to call the catching up the Rapture. You can call it by the original Greek word Harpazo if you like. Harpazo means to catch away, catch up, or to take by force. The Latin translation is rapiemir, from which our English word Rapture is derived.

Strong's says that harpazo is from a derivative of G138, aihreomai, to take for oneself, that is, to prefer, choose. Harpazo means to seize, catch away, catch up, pluck, pull, take (by force). That describes what many choose to call the Rapture.

In Rev. 17:14, right after the Rapture, but before the 10 kings receive their kingdom, it says, "he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and THEY THAT ARE WITH HIM ARE CALLED, AND CHOSEN, AND FAITHFUL."


1Thess. 4:16,17 says, "the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the TRUMP OF GOD: and the dead in Christ shall RISE (aniste¯mi, arise, lift up, raise up [again], rise [again] first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP TOGETHER WITH THEM IN THE CLOUDS, TO MEET THE LORD IN THE AIR: and so shall we ever be with the Lord." WHAT HAPPENS AT THE LAST TRUMP RAPTURE?

1 Cor 15:51-53 says, "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST TRUMP: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."

This change that takes place after the two legs of the Body of Christ are raptured is to become literally immortal. On that day, all saints, those in Heaven and those on Earth, will be gathered to the GENERAL ASSEMBLY in Heaven. Heb. 12:22,23 says, "But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, THE HEAVENLY JERUSALEM, and to an innumerable company of angels, To the GENERAL ASSEMBLY and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect".

On that day, the FIRST TRUMP saints will be called to the GENERAL ASSEMBLY from one end of Heaven to the other. Mt. 24:31 says, "And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of HEAVEN to the other."

At the same time, the LAST TRUMP saints will be called to the GENERAL ASSEMBLY from one end of the EARTH to the other. Mark 13:27 says, "And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the EARTH to the uttermost part of HEAVEN."

Of that day, Dan 12:1,2 says, "And at that time (when the False Prophet shall come to his end, Dan. 11:45) shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble (it is the Day of God's Wrath), such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people (i.e., the 144,000 Jews of Rev. 7) shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake".

That day will probably be Sept. 14, 2015 (Tishri 1, 5776) the Feast of Trumpets that is 48.33 years (one generation, Mt. 1:17) after the Six-Day War of 1967, the Sign of the End of the Age. The Sign of the End of the Age could not be later than 1967, because Israel had to be young, not over 19 years old (1948 + 19 = 1967).

Subtract 2300 days (figured by inclusive reckoning because it is a block of time) and the 2300-day shortened Tribulation should start Sivan 6, 5769 (May 29, 2009) next Pentecost.

It looks like the First Trump Rapture has to take place before May 29, 2009. In Luke 21:36, Jesus said, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to ESCAPE ALL THESE THINGS that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." The word translated ESCAPE is ekpheugo, which means to flee out, escape, from G1537 (ek, out from) and G5343 (pheugo, to run away, vanish, escape, flee (away).

Isa 57:1,2 says, "The righteous perisheth, and no man layeth it to heart: and MERCIFUL MEN ARE TAKEN AWAY, NONE CONSIDERING THAT THE RIGHTEOUS IS TAKEN AWAY (asaph, removed) FROM THE EVIL TO COME. He shall enter into peace: they shall rest in their beds, each one walking in his uprightness."

Many will see the Rapture take place, fear and trust in the Lord. Psa. 40:1-3 says, "I waited patiently for the LORD; and he inclined unto me, and heard my cry. HE BROUGHT ME UP also out of an horrible pit (as he brought Jeremiah up out of the miry pit), out of the miry clay (our bodies of clay), and set my feet upon a rock (Heaven), and established my goings (at the Rapture). And he hath put a NEW SONG in my mouth, even praise unto our God: MANY SHALL SEE IT, and fear, and shall trust in the LORD." These saints sing the "NEW SONG" after the FIRST TRUMP RAPTURE in Rev. 5:9.

These saints are in Heaven before Jesus is given the seven-sealed Title Deed of the Earth. Rev 5:9 says of these saints, "And they sung a NEW SONG, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation".

Psa 149:1-9 says, "Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a NEW SONG, and his praise in the congregation of saints. Let Israel rejoice in him that made him: let the children of Zion be joyful in their King. Let them praise his name in the dance: let them sing praises unto him with the timbrel and harp. For the LORD taketh pleasure in his people: he will beautify the meek with salvation. Let the saints be joyful in glory: let them SING aloud upon their beds. Let the high praises of God be in their mouth, and a twoedged sword in their hand; To execute vengeance upon the heathen, and punishments upon the people; To bind their kings with chains, and their nobles with fetters of iron; To execute upon them the judgment written: this honour have all his saints. Praise ye the LORD."

All saints, of both Raptures, will be receiving their rewards in Heaven when the Wrath of God hits the unbelievers on Earth. Rev. 11:15-19 says, "And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever. And the four and twenty elders (12 patriarchs and 12 apostles of Israel), which sat before God on their seats (thrones), fell upon their faces, and worshipped God, Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged (i.e., at the Judgment Seat of Christ), and that thou shouldest give REWARD unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail."

Subtract the whole 70th week of Daniel (7 x 360 = 2520 days), using inclusive reckoning, i.e., count the first day as number 1, from Sept. 14, 2015, and you will find that the 70th week of Daniel 9:27 started Oct. 21, 2008, the 8th day of Tabernacles. We are living in the end times. The Rapture should be between now and next Pentecost. I hope it will be Dec. 21, 2008. In Mark 13:23, Jesus said, "take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things." Therefore, the date of the Rapture is in the Bible.

We are the temple of the Holy Spirit. Haggai 2:18,19 says, "Consider now from this day and UPWARD, from the four and twentieth day of the ninth month (Kislev 24, Dec. 21), even from the day that the foundation of the LORD'S temple was laid, consider it. Is the seed yet in the barn? yea, as yet the vine, and the fig tree, and the pomegranate, and the olive tree, hath not brought forth: FROM THIS DAY WILL I BLESS YOU." I hope this will be our day to be blessed beyond all imagination. It has already happened to Enoch and Elijah, types of the 2 Raptures.


Gen 5:24 says, "And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him."


2Ki 2:11 says, "there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven." Agape

My reply to "What is the continual sacrifice?"

> > Daniel 8:9-14 “And out of them shall come the little horn (The Antichrist) … and it took away from him the continual sacrifice, and cast down the place of sanctuary. And strength was given to him against the continual sacrifice and he cast down the place of sanctuary. And strength was given to him against the continual sacrifice because of sins, and truth will be cast down on the ground, and he will do and will prosper. … for 2,300 days.”

> > What is the continual sacrifice?

Num 28:3,4 says, "This is the offering made by fire which ye shall offer unto the LORD; two lambs of the first year without spot day by day, for a continual burnt offering. The one lamb shalt thou offer in the morning, and the other lamb shalt thou offer at even". Agape

His reply

Question. Is the continual sacrifice occurring now, present time? If so where?

Num 28:3,4 says, "This is the offering made by fire which ye shall offer unto the LORD; two lambs of the first year without spot day by day, for a continual burnt offering. The one lamb shalt thou offer in the morning, and the other lamb shalt thou offer at even".

My reply

There is no sacrificing now.

If my memory serves me right, the war with the Romans started in 66 AD and the sacrificing stopped in the summer of 68 AD, when during the seige, they no longer had any lambs to sacrifice. In 70 AD, the Temple was burned, many Jews were killed, and the rest dispersed.

In 1991, the Jews tried to bring in sheep and a fold-up altar, but the police wouldn't allow it. This shows that they can sacrifice with such an altar on short notice. Bringing in the altar by helicopter was even proposed. They have a Sanhedrin now, and raise sheep for the Temple sacrifices. Things seem ready as soon as they can get the permission to go ahead. The Pre-Trib Rapture may be the catalist that will bring this about. Agape

"Pope Benedict XVI Will Visit Holy Land in 2009"

News Max: Thursday, Nov 27, 08
Benedict 'hopes that visit would foster (Mideast) peace .....' ]

My reply to a post on Five Doves site, "How does the Ezekiel 38-39 fit in the end-times?"

> > In Ezekiel 39:9 It talks about how Israel will be burning the weapons from the Gog-Magog war for 7 seven years
> > so does this mean this war is at the inception of the Tribulation? Or is this at the end of the tribulation?
> > If any of you could please teach on this war and how it fits in YHVH’s will, I would greatly appreciate any help.

It has to be at the end of the Tribulation. In my mind, it can't be otherwise. To me, Eze. 38:18-23 is very plain. It is talking about the day of God's Wrath. At the end of the world-wide earthquake, every wall will fall. That is the day the towers fall. Cities will be in shambles. The dead will lay around the Earth. The globe itself will be turned upside down. The seas will wash over the mountains. Mountains and islands will disappear in the worldwide earthquake. The Earth will become a desolate ruin. That can't happen at the beginning of the Tribulation. It will be the day the False Prophet is deposed from office on the Feast of Trumpets, probably Sept. 14, 2015. Joel 1:15, 2:1,2 says, "Alas for the day! for the DAY OF THE LORD is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come....Blow ye the TRUMPET in Zion, and sound an alarm in my holy mountain: let all the inhabitants of the land tremble: for the DAY OF THE LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong (i.e., Gog's army); THERE HATH NOT BEEN EVER THE LIKE, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations."

The catastrophe will be terrible, but it will not be as great a catastrophe as the one that happened in Gen. 1:2. It says, "And the earth was (hayah, lit., became, hayah designates change; the word 'was' is to be supplied by the reader when there is no change) without form (tohu, desolate), and void (bohu, an empty ruin); and darkness was upon the face of the deep."

Dan 11:45-12:2 says, "And he (the False Prophet) shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas (the Mediterranean and the Dead Sea) in the glorious holy mountain (at Jerusalem); yet he shall come to HIS END, and none shall help him. And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be A TIME OF TROUBLE, SUCH AS NEVER WAS SINCE THERE WAS A NATION even to that same time: and at that time (Day of God's Wrath; Rev. 6:17) thy people shall be delivered (i.e., the 144,000 Israelites plus a great multitude will be Raptured; Rev. 7:9,14), every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt."

Rev 6:15-17 says, "And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and HIDE US FROM THE FACE OF HIM THAT SITTETH ON THE THRONE (they see the Sign of the Son of Man in the sky), AND FROM THE WRATH OF THE LAMB: FOR THE GREAT DAY OF HIS WRATH IS COME; and who shall be able to stand?"

In the Sign of the Son of Man, they see Jesus sitting on his throne, because it is the day of his Coronation in Heaven.

Rev. 7:14 says, "These are they which CAME OUT OF GREAT TRIBULATION (i.e., in the Pre-Wrath Rapture), and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb."

Of the Gog/Magog War, Eze 38:18-23 says, "And it shall come to pass at the same time when Gog shall come against the land of Israel, saith the Lord GOD, that MY FURY shall come up in my face. For in my jealousy and in the fire of MY WRATH have I spoken, Surely in that day there shall be a great shaking in the land of Israel (the asteroid of Rev. 8:8 will impact the Mediterranean Sea, the star [aster] Wormwood will destroy Babylon); So that the fishes of the sea, and the fowls of the heaven, and the beasts of the field, and all creeping things that creep upon the earth, and all the men that are upon the face of the earth, shall shake at my presence (paniym, face, i.e., the Sign of the Son of Man is seen in the sky), and the mountains shall be thrown down, and the steep places shall fall, and EVERY WALL SHALL FALL to the ground. And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains (i.e., kingdoms, nations), saith the Lord GOD: every man's sword shall be against his brother. And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain (a tsunami), and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone (because the mountain burning with fire will hit the Mediterranean Sea; Rev. 8:8). Thus will I magnify myself, and sanctify myself; and I will be known in the eyes of many nations (i.e., they will see the Sign of the Son of Man), and they shall know that I am the LORD."

Isa 24:1 says, "Behold, the LORD maketh the earth empty, and maketh it waste, and TURNETH IT UPSIDE DOWN, and scattereth abroad the inhabitants thereof."


I think of the world's skyscrapers that will fall like the World Trade Center towers fell exactly one week before the Feast of Trumpets. Even Dubai's towers will fall on the Feast of Trumpets that is the Day of God's Wrath.

Isa. 29:5-7 says, "it shall be at an instant suddenly. Thou shalt be visited of the LORD of hosts with THUNDER, and with EARTHQUAKE, and GREAT NOISE, with STORM and TEMPEST, and the flame of devouring FIRE. And the multitude of all the nations that fight against Ariel (Jerusalem), even all that fight against her and her munition, and that distress her, shall be as a dream of a night vision."

Rev 16:17-21 says, "And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done. And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great EARTHQUAKE, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great. And the great city (Jerusalem) was divided into three parts, and THE CITIES OF THE NATIONS FELL: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of HIS WRATH. And EVERY ISLAND FLED AWAY, AND THE MOUNTAINS WERE NOT FOUND. And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great."

I don't understand people that say the Gog-Magog war is at the beginning of the Tribulation. To me, that is utterly impossible. The asteroid impact in the Mediterranean Sea kills one third of the life in the sea at first. Later on, we find out that all life in the Sea dies. Also, there is the asteroid Wormwood that will destroy Babylon.

Rev 8:8,9 says, "And the second angel sounded, and as it were a great mountain burning with fire was cast into the sea: and the third part of the sea became blood; And the THIRD part of the creatures which were in the sea, and had life, died; and the third part of the ships were destroyed." Rev 16:3 says, "And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and EVERY LIVING SOUL DIED IN THE SEA."

Eze. 38:12,13 shows that there will be 7 months between the Day of God's Wrath and the Second Advent. It says, "And SEVEN MONTHS shall the house of Israel be burying of them, that they may cleanse the land. Yea, all the people of the land shall bury them; and it shall be to them a renown the day that I shall be glorified, saith the Lord GOD."

For there to be 7 months between the Day of God's Wrath on Tishri 1, the Feast of Trumpets, and the following Nisan 1, the first day of the Regnal and Sacred Year, that year has to be a Jewish Leap Year with the 13th month. The year 5776 is a Leap Year. Not only that, but it is the Jubilee Year. Ten days after the Day of God's Wrath, the Jubilee Year will be announced on the Day of Atonement. The Jubilee Year will begin the following Nisan 1, the first day of the Regnal and Sacred Year. I think that will be the day of the Second Advent. Agape

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